A Game of Logic: The Holy Spirit and I VS ALL NoN-believers

reply to post by blupblup


This does not surprise me in the slightest. Check my sig. A lot of this stuff (the freaking new testament) was written down decades or more after the supposed events occurred, and there is good reason to believe Emperor Constantine instigated it in a kind of "If you can't beat them, join them" style mentality of societal control of the christian trouble makers.

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Continental drift may account for some animal dispersion in addition to sea trade between (now fallen) civilizations.

It think its apparent that Noahs Ark landed BACK in Africa, where most of the species came from originally (a fitting re-destiny), at some point beforehand it is clear; the Ark must have hit some rough seas and the marsupials (frightened) jumped overboard and swam to the next nearest island continent; Australia, with cockatiels and brave crocodiles leading the headway to all the freedoms evolution had in store for them (never mind the Aborigines to come later (where from they came is anyones guess pre-human zygote stowaways in the flotsam of Noahs boat caught in the current/drug there in the crocs wake).

ReturnofTheSonOfNothing
reply to post by blupblup

 

This does not surprise me in the slightest. Check my sig. A lot of this stuff (the freaking new testament) was written down decades or more after the supposed events occurred, and there is good reason to believe Emperor Constantine instigated it in a kind of "If you can't beat them, join them" style mentality of societal control of the christian trouble makers.

Constantine was let off the hook, it was 325 Ad that the council of Nicaea met to debate which books were to be included in the New Testament and there were MANY. Those disincluded held too many references to Egyptian mystery teachings; as it was supposed to be attached to the Judaic Bible would have been either a total admonistion that the Hebrew religion was in fact 'borrowed' or would be started anew, with Pauls Christian Church (greek orthodox). The pagan references in the architecture of Constantinople were as you say Constantines bow to the pagan Roman Gods to thwart anarchy/uprisings.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

it was 325 Ad that the council of Nicaea met to debate which books were to be included in the New Testament

This is a common misconception... Nicaea was more about the Arian controversy...

You're thinking of "the council of Laodicea"

reluctant-messenger.com...

Akragon
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

it was 325 Ad that the council of Nicaea met to debate which books were to be included in the New Testament

This is a common misconception... Nicaea was more about the Arian controversy...
You're thinking of "the council of Laodicea"
reluctant-messenger.com...

I hope this comment wasnt generated through a wikipedea search, thankyou for the correction. I have something to add you may not remember Akragon, regarding passwords used by the Jesus Army of 12; on the night of the last supper and elsewheres. Not exactly words (which was my problem) but gestures and symbolism instead, a man holding a water jar (not normal because women did this), a motion or handshake to get to the second floor of the last supper, same as with the identification of the white ass to be road into Jeruselem upon (some of these hold true to FreeMason Rites to this day, best mode of transportation? NOT).

reply to post by vethumanbeing

I hope this comment wasnt generated through a wikipedea search,

Well no... I've corrected many people on that little tidbit...

I don't know why everyone gets them confused... Everyone has heard of Nicea... Yet few people have ever actually heard of the council where the cannon was actually established...

It seems most people including most Christian believe it was at Nicea... so there is abundant chance for correction

And maybe some people might learn a thing or two by my correction as well

Akragon
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

I hope this comment wasnt generated through a wikipedea search,

Well no... I've corrected many people on that little tidbit...
I don't know why everyone gets them confused... Everyone has heard of Nicea... Yet few people have ever actually heard of the council where the cannon was actually established... It seems most people including most Christian believe it was at Nicea... so there is abundant chance for correction
And maybe some people might learn a thing or two by my correction as well

Why do you suppose that is and can you provide your basis for the testimony, it could really clear up some misinterpretations and why so believed by many. I cant speak for Christians or most people; I am curious however as this could be important (as a fallacy believed).

vethumanbeing

Akragon
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

I hope this comment wasnt generated through a wikipedea search,

Well no... I've corrected many people on that little tidbit...
I don't know why everyone gets them confused... Everyone has heard of Nicea... Yet few people have ever actually heard of the council where the cannon was actually established... It seems most people including most Christian believe it was at Nicea... so there is abundant chance for correction
And maybe some people might learn a thing or two by my correction as well

Why do you suppose that is and can you provide your basis for the testimony, it could really clear up some misinterpretations and why so believed by many. I cant speak for Christians or most people; I am curious however as this could be important (as a fallacy believed).

Word of mouth I suppose...

I've only seen a few Christians who know about the council of Laodicea... most of them are found here, and are quite proficient in their study... Those few I rarely if ever have serious issues with...

They have their Nicene Creed, which was first drafted at that council... then changed in later councils

I can only assume they use the idea that the canons were established at the same time... though in reality the canons of the bible weren't established until 40 some odd years later...

Much of Christianity takes its teaching from the early fathers of the church, not the actual texts of the bible...

A good example is the trinity... Said triune God wasn't taught by any of the apostles, or Jesus... and in fact no where in the bible is a triune God taught... but its the basis for almost all sects of Christianity... yet it wasn't decided until 300 some odd years after the fact

In truth... I don't know why Christians believe a lot of things they do...

but I suppose its not my business either

Edit: Scratch that... I do know why Christians believe in strange doctrine....

its because they listen to preachers, and don't read for themselves

reply to post by Akragon

Everyone has heard of Nicea... Yet few people have ever actually heard of the council where the cannon was actually established...

I think that the Nicean Creed is a fraud, meaning that there was a thing called the Council of Nicea, but it did not produce that document.
There is no mention of it in the record of the council or in the official cannons that were the published findings of the council that then stood as church law.
So it was a forged document created to make it look like there was a consensus of understanding concerning the Trinity, when in fact there was nothing of the kind.

reply to post by jmdewey60


You could very well be right... IF one looks over a lot of the early Church documents, or at least what we have and the translations there of... theres a lot of things that are not so "Christian" in their reading...

Look at the canons that came from the council of Laodicea... Some of them are very Un-Christ-like...

Men with agenda as far as im concerned...

but who am I

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Im replying to my own post for this reason. Why is it Noah picked up all of the animals and neglected the saving of the humans in existance all over the world; two by two? They must have existed somewhere, genesis did not begin with Noah landing his ark on a mountain top in Turkey.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Noah didn't make pit stops

Akragon
vethumanbeing
Akragon
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

vethumanbeingWhy do you suppose that is and can you provide your basis for the testimony, it could really clear up some misinterpretations and why so believed by many. I cant speak for Christians or most people; I am curious however as this could be important (as a fallacy believed).

AkragonWord of mouth I suppose.. I've only seen a few Christians who know about the council of Laodicea... most of them are found here, and are quite proficient in their study... Those few I rarely if ever have serious issues with..They have their Nicene Creed, which was first drafted at that council... then changed in later councils.

Word of mouth is fine; Moses litergy (channeled) from Poseidon, Abraham. Changes happen. You trust the truth that resonates; so do I.

Akragon I only assume they use the idea that the canons were established at the same time... though in reality the canons of the bible weren't established until 40 some odd years later.

Yes and 40 years is a long time for an oral tradition to become written as factual. Canons of the bible and took another 300 more years of obfuscation/redactivism. What were they all afraid of in disclosure of truths. Those original texts were lost, but purposely refound AGAIN as the Dead Sea Missives (Damnit to hell).

AkragonMuch of Christianity takes its teaching from the early fathers of the church, not the actual texts of the bible...A good example is the trinity... Said triune God wasn't taught by any of the apostles, or Jesus... and in fact no where in the bible is a triune God taught... but its the basis for almost all sects of Christianity... yet it wasn't decided until 300 some odd years after the factIn truth... I don't know why Christians believe a lot of things they do.

The actual trinity is depicted within the Egyptian (borrowed by the Hebrew) Quabala; A triangle at the top of the tree of life--Sacred Kingdom (God) right hand side of the shape Chocmah (male) left point Binah (female) lovers. God as nothing created a polarity of itself (still within the spiritual plane of being not yet manefest-just the idea of). Christians dont realize they are following the path of Pauls Church not Jesus's, he was not at all trying to implement YET ANOTHER dead dreaded dog belief system, furthest from his imagination. He was trying to combine the Egyptian Mystery Schools with the Judaic they heavily stole from/in kindness borrowed. This is why the Essenes Gnostic Texts were disincluded; too many references to the magickal realms of being.
The trinity was never to be "father, son and holy ghost" because it is redundant, there is no ghost unless the father kingdom represents it. The true trinity is Kether,(God no-thingness) Wisdom (Chokmah male) Understanding (Binah female), in polarity as lovers, with each other as a definition of GOD ASPECT BEGINNING to define itself.

Akragonbut I suppose its not my business either
Edit: Scratch that... I do know why Christians believe in strange doctrine....
its because they listen to preachers, and don't read for themselves.

Why NOT make it your business? I question constantly; motives belief systems. I question those that ask for proof, as if everything one knows has to be formulated from "someone elses" written word? Moses did not read books; he accessed his information via a channeling of sorts to a percieved higher being; as if this does not happen in this day and age and ridiculed as being WHAT? not believeable? Moses is the 'Plato' in of the art of 'channeling; the first NewAger EVER (Christians dont have a clue to the fact they are actually in the belief of Pauls Church).

reply to post by vethumanbeing

This is why the Essenes Gnostic Texts were disincluded; too many references to the magickal realms of being.

Hmm... I think the gnostic texts weren't "included" if that is the appropriate word, because of their belief in what Jesus was...

That being another "created" being... like the rest of us. The gnostics insisted that there was a point in the past where Jesus did not exist... which was fully rejected by the "proto-orthodox" church... the same people or sect that pushed the trinity.

The gnostic believers were apparently the losing side of the debate, which was at Nicea...

Ironically... the gnostics were persecuted to the point of extinction, which in my opinion is suspicious to say the least...

their belief system was a threat to the church because it held truths that gave people freedom from the church... them being the "only people" which had a connection to God. Similar to today, in that belief system one must come to the church to find God, as opposed to what Jesus actually said... that being "God wants a personal relationship" with his children...

Gnostic writing was destroyed... believers were executed or banished...

Thank God for that lonely shepard or whoever it was that decided to bury the texts found in Nag Hammadi

Akragon
reply to post by veteran
humanbeing

 

Noah didn't make pit stops

Definately not the Americas Cup, or a Tall ship masted race; as Noahs ark was more a bouy adrift/afloat bouncing about on the open seas just like Gilgamesh-Over and over again these same tall tales regurigtated from civilization to future generation storytelling. When do they stop and the next one start, to end and then begin again from the begining? According to the Hindu, the Hopi, the Maya we are now in the 4th or 5th remake of the same Hollywood "SCRIPT" WORLD (need better writers) the same ole same ole is redundant; at some point we are supposed to get it right/or understand the metaphor?

Akragon
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

vethumanbeingThis is why the Essenes Gnostic Texts were disincluded; too many references to the magickal realms of being.

AkragonHmm... I think the gnostic texts weren't "included" if that is the appropriate word, because of their belief in what Jesus was.

Jesus was nothing at the time the Gnostic texts were written; he was not acknowleged as anything except as a student/adept occupying the same space in Qumran. These texts were not written during his lifetime at which there was no ideaform for him being anything but a student. Christianity was not birthed until Paul implemented his plan in collaboration with the defining of the new testiments to be transcribed. At the time the Gnostic texts were written there was no 'Jesus Consciousness Phenominon' to contemplate even as a historical figure. I could be wrong here; we are speaking of individuals (the Essene) that had the capacity/use of time travel through their ability to meditate and achieve separate spirit from body and in so doing could access Thoths Akashic records (history of everything past and future). They chose to what they did for future prosperity, preserving a truth they were convinced of.

AkragonThat being another "created" being... like the rest of us. The gnostics insisted that there was a point in the past where Jesus did not exist... which was fully rejected by the "proto-orthodox" church... the same people or sect that pushed the trinity.

You mean his physicality was denied and was not in fact God because of this? This is the entire purpose of god-nothingness defining itself as a physical creature to understand itself as perfect but decided to go another way and cause physicallity, give freewill give polarity. I suspect in its perfection became bored and wanted to rock its own boat (wouldnt you?) if you were all knowing and perfection and no growth was forthcoming? Id get into a "lets create something" of interest that defines me but has free will and is polarized as opposites.

AkragonThe gnostic believers were apparently the losing side of the debate, which was at Nicea... Ironically... the gnostics were persecuted to the point of extinction, which in my opinion is suspicious to say the least...their belief system was a threat to the church because it held truths that gave people freedom from the church... them being the "only people" which had a connection to God. Similar to today, in that belief system one must come to the church to find God, as opposed to what Jesus actually said... that being "God wants a personal relationship" with his children.

Yes they were persecuted; all the way up to 1307? Friday the 13th of October. Templar Knights murdered in France (they were the first bankers); for the land holdings, many survived and took the Gnostic traditions with them to Great Britian. The last thing the Catholic Church wanted (pauls) was for anyone to have the esoteric knowlege of the Egyptians; thus for them the Pope/Bishop/Cardinal/Priest is the ONLY direct conduit mouthpiece to/for contacting 'God Source' for the constituant to speak through (LAUGHABLE/RIDICULOUS and INSANE) in this thinking and as to my mind is EVIL.
The confession of sins to the priest allows that man to know everything happening in the village and so can blackmail take power over the constituancy as it knows everything going on (plus plus demand children to be born into the faith and tithe).

AkragonGnostic writing was destroyed... believers were executed or banished... Thank God for that lonely shepard or whoever it was that decided to bury the texts found in Nag Hammadi

Dont worry we are way ahead of all of this mystery findings, all planned out and went as scheduled found at the right time, we are smarter than the average bear BooBoo. There are no accidents of fate or the humans destiny; we insert timebombs to be found just exactly when and where and why. Its all in keeping with destroying in this age of Horus; begining 1904AD the major architypes of Institutions (religion) being one of them instituted in the prior age of Osiris.

It is interesting to me that the councils held to determine what was to be included in the 'New Testament' occured at the same time (325 AD) Pauls Greek Othodox Church was in its infancy (vulnerable); Id say the cannons were specifically cited only to bolster this infantile church; to help a lie reprogram/define itself into a truism. What was the fear factor? Humans not to gain access to god by themselves as freewill allows but to have to go through an intermediary.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Jesus was nothing at the time the Gnostic texts were written; he was not acknowleged as anything except as a student/adept occupying the same space in Qumran. These texts were written during his lifetime at which there was no ideaform for him being anything but a student.

Im not so sure about that...

Working from dating the texts we have most of the gnostic texts are from the early second century, with the exception of Thomas, which is also debatable... I personally think Thomas was probably one of the first texts written about Jesus... basically a collection of things he said when he was alive... and most of Thomas lines up with the 4 gospels pretty accurately

Even from the earliest writing we know of he was called a teacher, and master (refer to Mark) so to say he was nothing more then a student, begs the question... who was his teacher?

Christianity was not birthed until Paul implemented his plan in collaboration with the defining of the new testiments to be transcribed.

I agree with that... Paul was most definitely the founder of what is known as Christianity

At the time the Gnostic texts were written there was no Jesus to contemplate as a historical figure. I could be wrong here;

Well ya you're wrong... sorry to say

Though Gnosticism was around waay before Jesus... Christian Gnosticism was not... and if you read the gnostic texts from before Jesus you'll find they are nothing like the version based around Jesus

You mean his physicality was denied and was not in fact God because of this?

Kinda... I've heard this idea where gnostics thought Jesus was only a spirit and not an actual man... but the idea has really little to no references in the gnostic texts we have... they are vague at most.

The gnostics thought Jesus was god but in a lesser sense then the Father of Creation, a belief I do share with the gnostic writers

Christianity believes that Jesus is eternal with the Father at all times... uncreated, always existent... and equal with one another... this idea actually has no backing from the gospels save one passage from John, which was likely influenced by Paul. The fact is Jesus himself said he was less then the Father, which the gnostics felt strongly about, also which the church denies, which also means they deny the very words of their own "god". That ideal was most of the basis of the Council at Nicea...

This is the entire purpose of god-nothingness defining itself as a physical creature to understand itself as perfect but decided to go another way and cause physicallity, give freewill give polarity. I suspect in its perfection became bored and wanted to rock its own boat (wouldnt you?) if you were all knowing and perfection and no growth was forthcoming? Id get into a "lets create something" of interest that defines me but has free will and is polarized as opposites.

Agreed...

The confession of sins to the priest allows that man to know everything happening in the village and so can blackmail take power over the constituancy as it knows everything going on (plus plus demand children to be born into the faith and tithe).

this is likely true in my opinion... and I really see no reason to believe otherwise...

From your earlier post

Why NOT make it your business?

I am not one to push my beliefs... I will argue, debate and defend them with all my being, but if people do not agree or won't listen... so be it... My tag line has been for many years... "believe what you will".... because you see, we will all find out the truth in the end...

translation of the Bible through evolve of language over thousands of years.
i sometimes question the intentions of words used in the Bible.
for instance. Choice and free will...two completely different things.
Free will suggests omnipotence, a choice suggests fallacy.

not to mention slaves in the Bible? allowed? what is it? you can't beat them with a whip?

wait, wait, I'm pretty sure...I'm a slave to a lie, and I sure as hell can't beat it physically either.
That's how you become a slave anyways, by becoming fallacious, a lie to creation.
Otherwise you're just born into it, which has even more devastating consequences.

Akragon
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

VHBJesus was nothing at the time the Gnostic texts were written; he was not acknowleged as anything except as a student/adept occupying the same space in Qumran. These texts were written during his lifetime at which there was no ideaform for him being anything but a student.

AkragonIm not so sure about that.Working from dating the texts we have most of the gnostic texts are from the early second century, with the exception of Thomas, which is also debatable... I personally think Thomas was probably one of the first texts written about Jesus... basically a collection of things he said when he was alive... and most of Thomas lines up with the 4 gospels pretty accurately.

'The book of Thomas' and its evil twin 'Thomas the Contender' are two of my favorites of the texts. You must realize these were not written during Jesus's lifespan (Qumran disbanded in 70AD) to parts known anticipating the Roman evacuation of. No one has any claim to have written of the actual events of Jesus's lifetime (not even himself). Curious to say the least as the supposed messenger of peace and enlightenment. I would imagine the being never existed in the first place; just another Osiris, Horus insert.

AkragonEven from the earliest writing we know of he was called a teacher, and master (refer to Mark) so to say he was nothing more then a student, begs the question... who was his teacher?

Mark is mysterious to me because his writings have two different meanings as I interpret them (one is for the layman to interpret literally, the other for those interested in hidden esoteric knowledge). Who was Jesus's teacher?, the same as mine and it has a name; it calls itself Origin (not Jehovah, not Yahweh, not the IAM not Source Entity).

VHB
At the time the Gnostic texts were written there was no Jesus to contemplate as a historical figure. I could be wrong here;

AkragonWell ya you're wrong... sorry to say
Though Gnosticism was around waay before Jesus... Christian Gnosticism was not... and if you read the gnostic texts from before Jesus you'll find they are nothing like the version based around Jesus.

Gnosticism was an ideaform that originated with the Egyptian Holy Order of The Winged Disk and before that the Sumarians (and before that anyones guess it involves direct contact/telepathy in speaking to god) so yes you are correct (much older than Jesus's incarnation). Jesus is one with the creator if not individualized as in one and the same being combined. This is supposedly the souls intent to recombine. Jesus was never meant to be percieved as a Demi-God or god human on earth incarnate (even though he was born of a supposedly earthbound physical human mother and a God spirit father JUST LIKE HORUS!). Im still not convinced Jesus ever walked this planet other than an overlay filmatic BenHur or Sparticus "MGM" presentation spectacular INSERT (in technicolor). Youd have to understand how this is acheived but the first clue is in todays ability to manipulate populaces via the film industry (this being the natural aftermath physical) in this day and age is mimicking that which has been going on for centuries before; its just a different variation of 'Magick'.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

You must realize these were not written during Jesus's lifespan

obviously...

No one has any claim to have written of the actual events of Jesus's lifetime (not even himself).

No of course not... what we have are copies of copies of copies.....etc etc..

there seems to be a dark point in "history" in the first century...

Curious to say the least as the supposed messenger of peace and enlightenment. I would imagine the being never existed in the first place; just another Osiris, Horus insert.

I would say he most definitely existed... In human history no man has affected the world as this person did, regardless of whether or not it was good or bad... 2000 years later we're still talking about Jesus...

Just from copies of copies or ancient texts from supposed "eyewitnesses" of his life... we can see that HE was exceptional... one can only imagine the actual person...

Mark is mysterious to me because his writings have two different meanings as I interpret them (one is for the layman to interpret literally, the other for those interested in hidden esoteric knowledge).

All of the gospels and Thomas have layers of meaning... they affect everyone differently...

Who was Jesus's teacher?, the same as mine and it has a name; it calls itself Origin

hmm... who gave it that name?

Jesus was never meant to be percieved as a Demi-God or god human on earth incarnate

I agree...

Im still not convinced Jesus ever walked this planet other than an overlay filmatic BenHur or Sparticus "MGM" presentation spectacular (in technicolor).

Try to think more human then god man... people were willing to die for what he told them...

that's not something that happens every day...

Well more lately but these days people are frickin nutz