? Lost for words ! Aliens could share more tech with us if...

Well, if there are aliens with advanced info to give us, I would willfully accept the information and would swear to use it to benefit mankind rather than imprison us. Feel free to stop on by. It's time for change.

reply to post by noeltrotsky

It's called an Oath of Secrecy and when your cleared for classified information you take the Oath and sign a document acknowledging that Oath. The penalties for breaking that Oath are typically up to and including Life in Prison. When you get cleared for some of the even higher levels of secrecy you are given a very direct and clear understanding of the repercussions breaking that Oath would have on your life and anyone else's life you put in jeopardy by giving them a secret. At that point you don't have to sign another Oath document because the penalties aren't decided or carried out by a judge.

I don't know what level Hellyer had, but I would be surprised if he had less than Cosmic Top Secret in NATO. Other sources have come out with some interesting information from that level of clearance. In Norad as commander of half the team he'd have to have nearly unlimited clearance to every facility. He would have been briefed about unknown flying objects penetrating N. American air space daily as part of his job.

Back in those days the UFO secrecy wasn't so compartmentalized and tucked away like it is now. The US - Canada relationship was extremely close even national security matters.

So what's your point exactly? He's now broken this "oath" by coming forward and telling these stories? Providing us with nothing further as far as evidence goes. What he's saying is nothing new. What he's saying isn't evidence of anything other than a story he has heard or read. These stories have already been going on for decades.
He says in one part of his interview:

"I receive 3 or 4 emails a week from all over the world from people who have actually witnessed sightings. Some of them have actually been on the ships and some who have actually been transported to another planet."

Is this the level of weak investigation that's acceptable to you? Emails from random people saying they have been abducted and visited another planet. Are you really that naive to buy into this? If you believe he's truthful in what he's saying in general, it covers everything he's saying. You can't be selective. Because if he lies about one thing, he'll also lie about others. He claims there are 80 different species of aliens. Some look like humans, some are Nordic blondes, tall whites, the classic greys. This isn't first-hand knowledge and has absolutely nothing to do with his career. It's UFO fantasy lore he's either read or heard from UFO lectures that have been going on for the last 30+ years.

You're very glib after watching 20 some minutes and writing off someone as worthless. If you haven't handled classified info or really worked with people that handle classified info then you have literally no idea how important it is. Try to keep an open mind if you can.

I asked you with my last post to provide me with a link to evidence that shows anything of what he has said is true. But, you haven't done so. Why is this? Will you claim my requirements for evidence are too high? Asking for some type of verifiable physical evidence for a claimed physical event that has been going on for the last 70+ years? Just one thing in the thousands of reports? I don't think that's unreasonable.

An open mind to the point of naively accepting whatever this person says because of his title? You rattle off his resume' as if that alone is enough to solidify what he says as truthful. You're wrong. It may be impressive to you, but not for people actually looking for facts.

noeltrotsky

interupt42
Well one thing is for certain:
Mr. Hellyer , Dr Edgar Mitchel , and other Military officials talking about Aliens existence have proven that without evidence, verbal confirmation is not enough.
Lets move on to the next step and lets get some factual credible evidence to back up the claims.

Well that complete invalidates the Disclosure Projects National Press Club event, one of the most interesting efforts to force out the truth that I've ever seen. Witness after witness stated what they saw for hours and hours....but all that is worthless according to you.

Personally I'm going to consider all evidence presented and value it accordingly. You, however, can dismiss verbal reports as much as you like.

We have decades of verbal reports including the Disclosure Projects National Press Club event. The result of such verbal reports have demonstrated nothing but sales of revenues for the few clever entrepreneurs .

I find the verbal disclosures entertaining and interesting but without actual evidence: are they coming out with their personal disclosure as a method of diversion,personal financial gain, attention, or do they get a conscious only after retirement and never while in office? Yes, even possibly they might be telling the truth.

All I'm saying is we have enough verbal disclosure from non active personnel and it has led to nothing. I need actual evidence for me to get excited as the their are to many plausible motives for verbal reports.

Ectoplasm8
So what's your point exactly? He's now broken this "oath" by coming forward and telling these stories? Providing us with nothing further as far as evidence goes. What he's saying is nothing new. What he's saying isn't evidence of anything other than a story he has heard or read. These stories have already been going on for decades.

My point is Hellyer has NOT broken any Secrecy Oath because he isn't telling personal stories. While people see that as 'he knows nothing'...I see it as he may be restricted in what he can say. He may know much more or he may not. You clearly have never dealt with a Secrecy Oath or people living under one. They simply don't spout everything they know because they must protect themselves.

Ectoplasm8
Is this the level of weak investigation that's acceptable to you?

No it isn't...and I said his interview was very poor already. I don't write him off completely however because he has valid reasons to not discuss personal knowledge.

Ectoplasm8
Asking for some type of verifiable physical evidence for a claimed physical event that has been going on for the last 70+ years? Just one thing in the thousands of reports? I don't think that's unreasonable.

Ah, that's the type you are! Nothing but what I see and can measure is evidence. I've learned that evidence comes in all shapes, sizes...and most importantly...quality. I'm not going to bother arguing types of evidence however as I don't have time for people like you.

interupt42
I find the verbal disclosures entertaining and interesting but without actual evidence: are they coming out with their personal disclosure as a method of diversion,personal financial gain, attention, or do they get a conscious only after retirement and never while in office? Yes, even possibly they might be telling the truth.

Oddly enough a Court of Law accepts first hand witness statements as 'actual evidence' despite your opinion on that type of evidence. Given that the Legal system has spent a few years figuring out how to handle evidence properly I'm going to have to follow their opinion over yours. As always your free to believe what you like.

noeltrotsky

interupt42
I find the verbal disclosures entertaining and interesting but without actual evidence: are they coming out with their personal disclosure as a method of diversion,personal financial gain, attention, or do they get a conscious only after retirement and never while in office? Yes, even possibly they might be telling the truth.

Oddly enough a Court of Law accepts first hand witness statements as 'actual evidence' despite your opinion on that type of evidence. Given that the Legal system has spent a few years figuring out how to handle evidence properly I'm going to have to follow their opinion over yours. As always your free to believe what you like.

Oddly enough the same court of law makes you double swear to tell the truth. The same court of law is also under the same gov't that is telling you that Aliens don't exists.

I'm also not telling you who or what to believe.

What I'm telling you is that we have had verbal confirmation from non active officials and that hasn't led to any Alien disclosure acceptance by the majority of the population. It may be enough for you , but apparently the majority of the population needs some real evidence and not just verbal confirmation from non active officials with questionable motives.

reply to post by interupt42


It is not enough to any of us. We are all on the same boat i guess.
...Maybe not looking in the same direction though as each and everyone has his own vantage point.

How do you feel about the content of his speech and the psychology behind it?
Meanings make sense and he js quite calm without falling in mistakes.
He seems quite natural.
His wording is subject to analysis and study whether there are aliens or not.

interupt42

noeltrotsky

interupt42
Well one thing is for certain:
Mr. Hellyer , Dr Edgar Mitchel , and other Military officials talking about Aliens existence have proven that without evidence, verbal confirmation is not enough.
Lets move on to the next step and lets get some factual credible evidence to back up the claims.

Well that complete invalidates the Disclosure Projects National Press Club event, one of the most interesting efforts to force out the truth that I've ever seen. Witness after witness stated what they saw for hours and hours....but all that is worthless according to you.

Personally I'm going to consider all evidence presented and value it accordingly. You, however, can dismiss verbal reports as much as you like.

We have decades of verbal reports including the Disclosure Projects National Press Club event. The result of such verbal reports have demonstrated nothing but sales of revenues for the few clever entrepreneurs .

I find the verbal disclosures entertaining and interesting but without actual evidence: are they coming out with their personal disclosure as a method of diversion,personal financial gain, attention, or do they get a conscious only after retirement and never while in office? Yes, even possibly they might be telling the truth.

All I'm saying is we have enough verbal disclosure from non active personnel and it has led to nothing. I need actual evidence for me to get excited as the their are to many plausible motives for verbal reports.

edit on 6-1-2014 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)

I consider myself a pretty good judge of character. However the older I have gotten the more I have realized, I along with many other so called good judge of characters we been duped several times. Some to the point that despite knowing and their confession of lying we still can't believe it.

In addition from what I have seen: The best liars are the ones that don't look the type , hence the success rate of a conman and the success of the wrong politicians getting elected and re elected.

FWIW, I felt that the CIA agent (anonymous) that confessed was more credible than this guy, but in the end neither one has any actual proof.

For me I need more than just verbal confirmation to fully believe in something so exceptional beyond our reality up to now.

He is either nuts or a traitor for telling and there are aliens. Scary. Imagine if this guy is nuts and had his hands near nuke button. Imagine if he is for real. That means we are just ants.

OK just for the sake of conversation here lets say aliens are visiting us.

Now can someone please explain WHY they would give us tech?

sounds like he's been hanging out with the Toronto mayor

Joneselius
Well strange indeed. I personally, having encountered a UFO, don't think they're alien at all, rather inter-dimensional, vampire like demons.

If they are on Earth and they've 'hidden' themselves from us then look out. Only enemies hide. I wouldn't trust you if you hid around a corner and jumped out to say hello. There's too much secrecy. If they're working in tandem with governments then God help us all. We're already alien chow.

Bird watchers and naturalists / scientists hide, in order to observe species in their natural habitat without disturbing them...they are often trying to help species, especially endangered ones...which means not only enemies hide.

Coming from another world as in ET, or Alternative dimension is basically the same thing...not here, so that difference is purely academic really isn't it.

Grimpachi
OK just for the sake of conversation here lets say aliens are visiting us.

Now can someone please explain WHY they would give us tech?

I would say the same reason a cat owner would give a cat a litter tray...so they don't crap all over the place.

Same reason...give us clean, efficient tech to stop us crapping all over our world.

How do you all believe ANYTHING from RT? Its propaganda, PLAIN AND SIMPLE

Grimpachi
OK just for the sake of conversation here lets say aliens are visiting us.

Now can someone please explain WHY they would give us tech?

So we can blow ourselves up.

We have a tendency to exploit technology first and foremost for destruction while positively influencing humanity as the side effect.

If they existed and wanted to help they would appear to everyone and make it obvious that our leaders aren't doing a very good job as humanitarians and we need to get our priorities straight in order to continue to progress. Somehow society has been convinced that having multiple tv,cars, luxurious ,etc is just as important if not more important then helping our fellow man survive with basic necessities or feeding starving children around the world.

reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK


Hellyer is very much a mixed bag. He normally reflects what he has heard and there may be a lot of truth in what he says but he is very naive and lacks discrimination. The 'Prime Directive' is an artifact of Star Trek; these beings are not interested in directives because these directives don't exist. They are here to get what they want. They only want to preserve the world for their own benefit. They are supposedly from Zeta Reticuli, Andromeda, The Pliades...but how do we know this? They told one woman they were from 'A small galaxy near Neptune' *

They might have stopped off at these places and set up bases there but that does not mean they originated there...yet Hellyer seems to take it all in without discrimination...

He needs to learn how to pronounce 'Andromeda' properly if he is to be taken seriously.

Still, he is worth listening to...

* Yes, the contactee saw the joke in it too...

Grimpachi
OK just for the sake of conversation here lets say aliens are visiting us.

Now can someone please explain WHY they would give us tech?

Why does the child abuser give children sweets? To gain their trust. To bargain for what they want. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. They want power in this world. I think David Jacobs in his book The Threat gets it right.

reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK


The NTSB is using uniformed off-duty cops to collect blood and cheek swabs from random drivers all across the US. Are they looking for non-human drivers?

reply to post by noeltrotsky

My point is Hellyer has NOT broken any Secrecy Oath because he isn't telling personal stories. While people see that as 'he knows nothing'...I see it as he may be restricted in what he can say. He may know much more or he may not.

Let me get it straight... He's telling other stories that he's heard, but, he's not going into detail about his personal knowledge of these stories? So according to this signed oath, it's okay to kinda hint at the story, as long as you don't speak about it personally? Doesn't that negate the whole purpose of a secrecy oath? That's ridiculous. Convenient excuse to make up to fit into a personal belief, but ridiculous.

You clearly have never dealt with a Secrecy Oath or people living under one. They simply don't spout everything they know because they must protect themselves.

So I'm assuming from that statement, you have personal, direct, first-hand knowledge of "Secrecy Oaths"? How about going into detail about your personal dealings with these oaths so we know you know what you're talking about.

No it isn't...and I said his interview was very poor already. I don't write him off completely however because he has valid reasons to not discuss personal knowledge.

First off, you only believe he has valid reasons, you don't know that for a fact. You're basing your belief completely on assumptions. You assume he knows more.. You assume he signed a secrecy oath.. You assume he is telling the truth. Nothing in the way of facts. The second point, you're saying this "secrecy oath" goes into his personal life as well decades later? He commented he has been getting emails from people that have been abducted by aliens and some that have visited other planets, for the last 2 or 3 years. But he just can't go into it because of the oath? That's a laughable suggestion! He obviously takes things at face value with very little evidence or investigation to back them up. The statement alone about emails shows that. He's a poor representative of this phenomenon, but people like you hold onto to his statements because of his title. Do you just desperately grasp at anyone seemingly official that comes forward with "alien stuff" using no barometer of truth whatsoever to what is said?

Do you also believe the U.S. military has built a base on the moon to keep tabs on these aliens and to fire on them if necessary? He does, so you must as well.

Ah, that's the type you are! Nothing but what I see and can measure is evidence. I've learned that evidence comes in all shapes, sizes...and most importantly...quality. I'm not going to bother arguing types of evidence however as I don't have time for people like you.

I never expected you'd have time to argue evidence. I've asked twice for you to provide me with a link to evidence regarding these stories told. I've yet to see it. In reality, when faced with facts, there are none. There's no other alternative than to turn away and not deal with it.
I swear... It seems like the same 2 or 3 members under different usernames using the same basic verbage and arguments.

reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK


He sounds likes a spokesperson for Green Peace.