Atheism is an absurd idea that produces mental illness

reply to post by ExquisitExamplE


Exactly. People emulate an idea that they possess very little comprehension of. It is little more than whimsical euphemism that they admire, an ideological base which directly contradicts every physical law known to man. But that's the point isn't it? These people aren't satisfied with the world they have been born into, the bodies they inhabit. They want more, bigger, better, brighter... They treat this reality like a business which they can upgrade and rearrange as long as they invest in the right partners. I don't find such a pursuit reassuring in a species known for acting like the dogs they kick on the streets. You complain about corporations when you yourselves exercise a corporate mentality when it comes to spirituality. Monarchies are only meant for the after life, is that it? Democracy is just a mortal device? No need to have a voice in the after life, a say in what you want or believe in? Come on, I'm seriously confused here. Is this what immortality is worth to you?

reply to post by Ansky

Why am I sure that it was Yahweh that created the universe? Because of the well documented life of Jesus Christ

Many other religious traditions have documents testifying to their sages and miracles. On what grounds are they being dismissed from you?

the harmony and lack of contradictions of the Bible.

I'd love to discuss that You'd have to expand on what you mean by 'harmony' and 'contradictions' though.

For instance if we are working under the belief Yahweh is omnibenevolent I would argue (heh) stoning to death your newlywed upon finding out she's not a virgin is not a manifestation of love or goodness… I'd say that's an obvious contradiction.

Now is atheism morally superior?

I wouldn't say an atheist is necessarily morally superior no. I would say religions impart morally weak beliefs to its followers.

How many Jews died in nazi germany? 6 million.

Have you read the Mein Kampf?? Hitler wasn't exactly hiding the fact he believed he was doing god's work and that god was Yahweh.

reply to post by Lightworth


Since you pointed me to your post on page 5 ill be responding to that.

Agnosticism is the logical balance between the robotically-programmed extremes/absolutes of religions and atheism. However, there are 2 basic types of agnostics, as I see it: the right kind and the wrong kind.

You're presupposing something false about atheism. You're claiming atheism means declaring one knows definitively and absolutely there is no creator god. That's not what atheism means and not my position and I am an atheist. Atheism just means the lack of belief in god(s) existence. That's it. Based on my experience the majority of atheists are not claiming to know in the 'extreme' manner you speak. For someone to say they don't believe god exists because there is not enough evidence to substantiate the belief, is not equivalent to saying they absolutely know the true origins of all reality. It's not the atheists that are being 'extreme' it's how others misrepresent them that's extreme.

The former are those with enough honesty and accuracy to acknowledge that the unseen or unexplained is simply UNKNOWN.

Lots of natural phenomena in the universe is still unexplained but we have reason (evidence) to know its existence is factual. That's where god-belief (particularly religious gods) differ… the evidence for their existence is lacking not just their descriptions. They are not unexplained in the same way say dreams are. They are completely unexplained and are so because we are bound to the limits of the physical universe and anything beyond it is beyond our senses, beyond our science. Nothing to substantiate the belief. Other than blind faith. No I am not saying it's 'eternally unknowable'… but it's limited this way at this time in our human experience.

Honesty to me would imply knowing you can lack belief in somethings existence but at the same time acknowledge it as a possibility. That's what I was getting at earlier.

You either believe something exists or you don't. There is no kinda sorta believing something does or doesn't exist. This 'higher ground' agnostics claim to be on compared to atheists is I strongly feel fallacious. Their claim is that they don't 'know either way'. I am not claiming to know either. Not in the way being insinuated. I don't believe in the existence yet I don't know absolutely if it doesn't exist (it's unknowable)… Bear in mind the father of 'agnosticism' was an atheist. Agnosticism was not intended to be divorced from atheism as people use it to mean today.

reply to post by spartacus699

We need a foundation though so we use the KJV bible and other modern versions. But relisticly all the other aspects of this thing called "religion" which atheists seems to be totally and utterlly obcessed about, well, we could care less about.

Note sure I follow that point. Care less about? Religious people seem just as interested. If all that was trivial details then why do religious people mostly stick to their one religion and insist their one religion is the only or most truthful? So all those 'aspects' atheists call religion, religious people clearly are 'obsessed' with as well. Why did you choose that particular foundation? Why a Christian foundation and not Hindu or Islam? Because realistically you were concerned with the aspects that constitute religion. You wanted to discriminate among them.

Now atheists just don't believe in god(s). It goes without saying then that the atheist doesn't believe in religions coming from a god, but not all atheists care much about the matter.

We we do care about is just being in tune with God.

So tie that into what I said above. If that was all you and other religious people cared about then why are you not being 'in tune' with Vishnu? Why is the Hindu not being 'in tune' with Allah? These faiths are not about belief in a creator god, they are about belief in their particular version of that creator and the belief their religion has captured its thoughts.

So when I say atheist live out of the ego, pride and vanity what I'm saying is that's holding them back from knowing God.

Surely a hindu could make a spiritual case about you holding yourself back in regards to knowing Brahmā. Just as you no doubt would make against opposing religions. You're holding yourself back towards knowing those other gods just as much as the atheist is from knowing yours. Assuming any of these god(s) are real, which I don't believe is the case.

I just go direct to the source. So forget religion, forget the middle man, you don't need any of that.

Well…..

that being the case sure!

That essentially makes you a prophet.

In religion, a prophet is an individual who is claimed to have been contacted by the supernatural or the divine, and to speak for them, serving as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people.

Wiki: Prophet

When you speak to god does god say forget religion?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Lightworth

 

You're presupposing something false about atheism. You're claiming atheism means declaring one knows definitively and absolutely there is no creator god. That's not what atheism means and not my position and I am an atheist. Atheism just means the lack of belief in god(s) existence. That's it. Based on my experience the majority of atheists are not claiming to know in the 'extreme' manner you speak. For someone to say they don't believe god exists because there is not enough evidence to substantiate the belief, is not equivalent to saying they absolutely know the true origins of all reality. It's not the atheists that are being 'extreme' it's how others misrepresent them that's extreme.

So then, an Atheist disbelieves in God but cannot be certain that God does not exist, while an Agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves in God because they cannot be certain that God exists or does not exist. It would seem to me, that in order to disbelieve in God while admitting that you cannot be certain of such a thing, requires a certain modicum of faith in God's non-existence, no?

Well I knew my mother has hearing problems but I wasn't aware that was mentally ill as well. Now I know exactly what her gifts are for her upcoming birthday. Hearing aids and a trip to the mental ward. Thanks OP.

If you are driving a car and a tree falls into the road do you

(A) Apply the breaks and put your faith in science?
or
(B) Keep your foot on the accelerator and put your faith in god ?


If you answered (A) then you’re not a true Christian and you should probably hand your bible in at the nearest church and let them know you prefer break fluid to holy water.

If you answered (B) then you are mentally ill and should hand yourself into the nearest asylum you’ll find most the other inmates are Christian too.

reply to post by ExquisitExamplE

So then, an Atheist disbelieves in God but cannot be certain that God does not exist,

I would say so yes. There are atheists sometimes called 'hard atheists' or 'gnostic atheists' that claim that certainty. To me that is irrational.

while an Agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves in God

Personally I think this is disingenuous. They say they neither believe or disbelieve but I think the mind does in fact choose a position of belief or non-belief in the existence of something as soon as it becomes aware of the concept/idea. And continues to change or reaffirm that belief, but it's never a 'kinda sorta' state. If you hooked a random 'agnostic' up to a lie detector (for the argument one that actually works), I think we would find they don't believe when asked. If then asked if they believe it's possible we would find they believe it's possible. Thus I am suggesting agnostics are actually atheists. Their 'can't know either way' maxim is ultimately in regards to the possibility of a creator's existence and not reflective of their current belief towards its existence. This is of course my opinion, but I strongly feel it's the case.

It would seem to me, that in order to disbelieve in God while admitting that you cannot be certain of such a thing, requires a certain modicum of faith in God's non-existence, no?

It's not faith, it's reason. You might not believe that sentient aliens currently live in our solar system. Why? Because you don't have good reason to. Would you consider it faith that you hold the belief they don't exist in our solar system? Or would you simply say it's merely a result of the lack of evidence. Could you not see yourself holding the belief they don't exist in our solar system yet also acknowledging it's possible? It's no different for god belief. It's quite rational to disbelieve the existence of god because of the lack of evidence and at the same time hold the belief it's possible since we understand our knowledge is limited to the known Universe.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by ExquisitExamplE
It's not faith, it's reason. You might not believe that sentient aliens currently live in our solar system. Why? Because you don't have good reason to. Would you consider it faith that you hold the belief they don't exist in our solar system? Or would you simply say it's merely a result of the lack of evidence. Could you not see yourself holding the belief they don't exist in our solar system yet also acknowledging it's possible? It's no different for god belief. It's quite rational to disbelieve the existence of god because of the lack of evidence and at the same time hold the belief it's possible since we understand our knowledge is limited to the known Universe.

Ah yes, but each man creates reason based on his beliefs; I'm sure you'd acknowledge that there are many intelligent religious people who can use reason to account for their beliefs in a deity. People also assess what they will accept as evidence in a variety of ways, and as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In regards to aliens, I realize that you weren't addressing me directly, but I'd say there are a number of cases that provide very good evidence for some type of extraterrestrial (or perhaps extradimensional?) visitation (for instance The Battle of L.A., Rendlesham and Roswell).

Similarly, as The OP pointed out so splendidly, cultures from all across the world have ancient beliefs in a creator force in one form or another, and while many an Atheist will disregard these beliefs as the primitive superstitions of unreasonable and unintelligent plebeians, I tend to hold them in higher regard and see a rich, if somewhat frayed and faded, tapestry of human emergence. The very fact that these concepts and beliefs exist in the first place points to their validity, mysterious and misunderstood though they may be, and interpreted as they have been through the looking glass of man's shattered vanity mirror.

My take on it? Well, I posted a brief but pointed explanation of my philosophy on the previous page.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by spartacus699

 

We need a foundation though so we use the KJV bible and other modern versions. But relisticly all the other aspects of this thing called "religion" which atheists seems to be totally and utterlly obcessed about, well, we could care less about.

Note sure I follow that point. Care less about? Religious people seem just as interested. If all that was trivial details then why do religious people mostly stick to their one religion and insist their one religion is the only or most truthful? So all those 'aspects' atheists call religion, religious people clearly are 'obsessed' with as well. Why did you choose that particular foundation? Why a Christian foundation and not Hindu or Islam? Because realistically you were concerned with the aspects that constitute religion. You wanted to discriminate among them.

Now atheists just don't believe in god(s). It goes without saying then that the atheist doesn't believe in religions coming from a god, but not all atheists care much about the matter.

We we do care about is just being in tune with God.

So tie that into what I said above. If that was all you and other religious people cared about then why are you not being 'in tune' with Vishnu? Why is the Hindu not being 'in tune' with Allah? These faiths are not about belief in a creator god, they are about belief in their particular version of that creator and the belief their religion has captured its thoughts.

So when I say atheist live out of the ego, pride and vanity what I'm saying is that's holding them back from knowing God.

Surely a hindu could make a spiritual case about you holding yourself back in regards to knowing Brahmā. Just as you no doubt would make against opposing religions. You're holding yourself back towards knowing those other gods just as much as the atheist is from knowing yours. Assuming any of these god(s) are real, which I don't believe is the case.

I just go direct to the source. So forget religion, forget the middle man, you don't need any of that.

Well…..

that being the case sure!

That essentially makes you a prophet.

In religion, a prophet is an individual who is claimed to have been contacted by the supernatural or the divine, and to speak for them, serving as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people.

Wiki: Prophet

When you speak to god does god say forget religion?

edit on 27-12-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

Note sure I follow that point.....

Jesus often and openly criticized the pharisees who where full of religion but had little to no connection with God what so ever. And ya they were obsessed too in all the wrong ways. You don't need ritual, tradition, preists any of that! Just go direct to God, cut out the middle man. Jesus taught a lot of that, not all but a lot.

not being 'in tune' with Allah?.....

Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God. Just that Christians believe in the trinity and that Jesus was God.

Vishnu....

That's why I tell people just go direct, why get confused over man made info. Better to go to the source. Ask and then ask that God reveal what is the right path. You don't ask a man where God came from. Ask God which group should turn to to learn from.

However, there's another way. Your gut has some very bizarre built in divination devices built in. It's like perhaps how people use a divining rod to find water. I think what you can do is just take a bible. Read, and or just hold the book open and place it on your solar plexus. And then ask the universe (God) if this is the correct wisdom to follow. And if you let yourself be totally open, and not let your own opinions, ego, pride, vanity, etc etc get in the way you might find your "gut instinct" actually talking to you, and it will tell you if it's correct or not. It's the same instinct you use in many many situations of life. Often we resist it and then find out later we had a gut instinct, and we should have followed it. Same thing.

Surely a hindu could make a spiritual case.....

If you don't bet you can't win. If you bet you do it on the one that has the most proof. I don't need man made proof as I've had many many encounters with God direct. It's almost a weekly thing so it's nothing I read in a book anymore. But anyone can have the same thing, prayer is a good starting point. As you'd be showing God you're willing to talk.

When you speak to god does god say forget religion?....

I'll ask him. But my guess is he'd say: Yes to some degree, because Satanism is also a religion. But when understanding and using a computer for the first time you press the on button. You dont' worry about how a micro chip is designed. You can't interact with a computer without turning pressing On. Forget about the microchip designs if you ahven't even pressed on.

reply to post by ExquisitExamplE


I don't subscribe nor approve of the word "god". It's such a vague and nondescript word, more euphemism and whimsy than anything else. Even the term "creator" begs a number of assumptions and raises more questions than it answers. These are hastily applied words for an idea that none of us are equipped to define or comprehend. That's why faith is so important. It assumes the answer and ignores the question.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by spartacus699

 

We we do care about is just being in tune with God. So when I say atheist live out of the ego, pride and vanity what I'm saying is that's holding them back from knowing God.

And I think your god is nothing but ego, pride, and vanity. He is perfection. Ego. He is the creator of all and the ruler of existence. Pride. Ergo, he and only he deserves worship from all lifeforms. Vanity.

I don't care who or what he loves or what benevolent end he claims to have in store for me or you or your neighbor. I see ego. I see pride. I see vanity. But most of all, I see ignorance.

Ya wow I get it, a lot of atheists on here actually think that religion means knowing God. Talk about blind, that's totally insane.

According to some theists, it is impossible to really know God. My understanding is that in emulating and studying God, you hope to recreate his essence within yourself so as to feel close to those ideals which he/she/it represents. And that's what scares me. A god who exalts perfection over imperfection, stagnance over progress, obedience over independence, faith over knowledge, and uniformity over individualism...and thousands of people who would be overjoyed to see such virtues made commonplace in our society. In other words, given total power in the hands of orthodox Christians, or orthodox Muslims, or orthodox Jews, this world would be nothing like it is today. But there's enough Christians and Jews and Muslims around to give us a glimpse at what such a world could have looked like.

edit on 27-12-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

No no no and no. For me it's my answer to where the universe came from. What's yours?

reply to post by spartacus699

No no no and no. For me it's my answer to where the universe came from. What's yours?

One need not have a good answer to recognize a poorly assembled one when he hears or reads it. I can think of better stories to take inspiration from.

spartacus699
For me it's my answer to where the universe came from.

It's wonderful, for you, that you have come to a point where you are satisfied with the answers you have. Seriously.

But why does someone else's answer, which may be different from yours, attract your attention?

Taking myself as an example. I'm equally satisfied with my answers which do not include the existence of a God or Gods. In your belief system, God made me that way. So why care that I don't share your beliefs?

bwinwright
Atheism is an absurd idea that produces mental illness

It is funny though because clinically - see below



I try not to judge but why do religious people always try to coin nonbelievers as mentally ill or label them with all the kind of names?

SkepticOverlord

spartacus699
For me it's my answer to where the universe came from.

It's wonderful, for you, that you have come to a point where you are satisfied with the answers you have. Seriously.

But why does someone else's answer, which may be different from yours, attract your attention?

Taking myself as an example. I'm equally satisfied with my answers which do not include the existence of a God or Gods. In your belief system, God made me that way. So why care that I don't share your beliefs?

Since this is a double-edged question, I'd like to again state that my contentions lie with the virtues promoted by some branches of theism. The idea that we must serve a master, the idea that we are inherently broken and helpless, the idea that progress is a narrow path with a single summit. These are ideas that I feel are a detriment to democracy, humanity, and innovation, elements which have gone a long away in fostering the freedoms that we enjoy today.

Spirituality is supposed to be a tool of cooperation and coexistence, not division and denigration. When you find yourself bowing to a greater power instead of evolving synergistically with the union, I feel that is a loss and a shame.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

AfterInfinity
reply to post by ExquisitExamplE

 

I don't subscribe nor approve of the word "god". It's such a vague and nondescript word, more euphemism and whimsy than anything else. Even the term "creator" begs a number of assumptions and raises more questions than it answers. These are hastily applied words for an idea that none of us are equipped to define or comprehend. That's why faith is so important. It assumes the answer and ignores the question.

Do you then subscribe to an alternate word? When you hear the term "creator", what questions do you then create? Are you then not the creator also? If you are not equipped to define or comprehend the word, are you then defined by the logos itself?

Lucid Lunacy
You're presupposing something false about atheism. You're claiming atheism means declaring one knows definitively and absolutely there is no creator god. That's not what atheism means and not my position and I am an atheist. Atheism just means the lack of belief in god(s) existence. That's it. Based on my experience the majority of atheists are not claiming to know in the 'extreme' manner you speak. For someone to say they don't believe god exists because there is not enough evidence to substantiate the belief, is not equivalent to saying they absolutely know the true origins of all reality. It's not the atheists that are being 'extreme' it's how others misrepresent them that's extreme.

You are saying that atheists have no world view about our origins and are simply making a claim of ignorace... "WE DON'T KNOW AND WE'RE PROUD OF IT!".
Not that intelligent from a group believing to be smarter than anyone else, who also engages in mocking and ridiculing other people's beliefs that are based on evidence and reason.

AfterInfinity
When you find yourself bowing to a greater power instead of evolving synergistically with the union, I feel that is a loss and a shame.

Indeed, and well said.

reply to post by bwinwright


I'm Agnostic, so I'll just take my meds and everything should be OK by morning.

Second.