Atheism is an absurd idea that produces mental illness

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


See my post on page 5 regarding the difference between "unknown" and "unknowable." Not all agnostics are the same. I don't see how the "unknowable" - meaning EVERYTHING outside of known materialism is allegedly eternally unknowable - crowd is any different from anyone else with a psychological-emotional NEED to believe in the rigid separation of the mundane from the intelligently unseen, which is based on the SAME essential fear of the unknown, "God-fearing" and blind faith-based mindset of the religious in the traditional definition of religion. They just THINK they can come off as more intelligent and rational, but they're not fooling EVERYONE.

reply to post by Lightworth


Atheism fits well into your definition, as they too blindly believe that no God exists.
Now atheists usually answer that they don't believe that no God exists, but rather simply don't believe it exists.
Well it's the same thing, as their world view has to account for God's non-existence, and since no one has yet proven (at least publicly) that God doesn't exist, or that the universe created itself (which would violate the conservation of energy law and causality too) the conclusion is that their beliefs not only lack evidence and logic but also go against science.

On the other hand, believing that God Yahweh (or Yehowah, or Jehovah) created the universe is the most logical explanation, see this YT video: www.youtube.com...
Why am I sure that it was Yahweh that created the universe? Because of the well documented life of Jesus Christ, the many fulfilled prophecies, the harmony and lack of contradictions of the Bible.

Now is atheism morally superior? Are we going to eradicate wars simply by eradicating religions? History has shown that it's not the case. Let's take for example the Soviet union, they were atheist and actively persecuted Christians. 12-20 million Christians died due to atheist persecution (en.wikipedia.org...), many of which in concentration camps. How many Jews died in nazi germany? 6 million.

But atheism today is much better and wouldn't ever persecute other people, right? No, the amount of ridicule that atheists are throwing at religions is proof of the opposite. Ridicule is a form of torture, in that it's the person that's attacked (or group) rather than the argument. It's function is not to correct, but to demean, produce shame and resentment. en.wikipedia.org... en.wikipedia.org...
Just as nazis believed to be racially superior to others, atheists make themselves believe to stand on some high-intelligence ground. History is set to repeat itself.

reply to post by Ansky


I figure that something so obvious should be quite readily proven if proof were demanded. Facts are readily demonstrated. God is not.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Ansky

 

I figure that something so obvious should be quite readily proven if proof were demanded. Facts are readily demonstrated. God is not.

You are claiming that the existence of God is not demonstrable, right? Can you prove your claim please? I'm not going to believe that just because you said so.

woodwardjnr
How can unbelief, be a mental illness? Christians didn't exist until 2 thousand years ago. Are we implying those humans before Christianity were all mentally ill?

The fact I no longer believe in Father Christmas or the tooth fairy is not seen as a sign of mental illness in society, yet not believing in god is?

Why are Christians so desperate to equate atheism as a religion. It's almost like they want to say "athiests are as ridiculous as us, how dare they try and be normal and reject the ridiculous beliefs we follow"

They are equating everything, including science, with relgion because it is their latest propaganda attack. I have always said that if god wanted Christians to spread the word, he should of made them better salesmen.

Though I will say that the equation with religion thing is a smarter tactic this time around.

by trying to claim that either science, or atheism, or everything else, is a belief system, is to either try to turn you away from it, back to religion, or hoping that if you believe in one religion or belief, you can believe in another and go back to church.
I haven't figured out the exact reason yet for the latest recruitment methods, but that is my guess.

But it is now a pervasive tactic not only here on ATS, but many other forums.

Now that you have noticed it, you will start to see them using it all over the place.

If you want to know what the latest recruitment tactics the Christians are going to use, just read some of the creationist websites.

I promise your IQ will only suffer temporarily and when you have read other materials for a few hours, it will return to normal.

reply to post by Ansky


By that logic, you have no reason not to believe in unicorns, leprechauns, wizards and fairies. So why don't you believe in Santa Claus and the easter bunny? Or any of the other gods of history?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The non-existence of God is also impossible to prove. By that logic, there's no reason not to believe in God.

Lightworth
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

See my post on page 5 regarding the difference between "unknown" and "unknowable." Not all agnostics are the same. I don't see how the "unknowable" - meaning EVERYTHING outside of known materialism is allegedly eternally unknowable - crowd is any different from anyone else with a psychological-emotional NEED to believe in the rigid separation of the mundane from the intelligently unseen, which is based on the SAME essential fear of the unknown, "God-fearing" and blind faith-based mindset of the religious in the traditional definition of religion. They just THINK they can come off as more intelligent and rational, but they're not fooling EVERYONE.

edit on 27-12-2013 by Lightworth because: (no reason given)

I dont understand what you are saying. It is impossible for either side to know what is truly out there....no one knows what happens when you die. You could maybe argue for the few people that had a near death experience but the research on that is pretty close to 50-50 id wager. Meaning for every person who thinks there is an afterlife there is another who says no. Im not sure how im trying to come off as more intelligent. This is fact. No one knows what is out there. Its why we are so split on the topic. Its all belief. Maybe someday we will have evidence that is solid and could point us in the right direction. I believe it definitely possible to answer the question why are we here and who put us here. I think there is much more out there that we don't know. But I have no clue whether we have a god or not and if anyone says im 100% sure either way they are full of #.

cosmicexplorer

Lightworth
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

See my post on page 5 regarding the difference between "unknown" and "unknowable." Not all agnostics are the same. I don't see how the "unknowable" - meaning EVERYTHING outside of known materialism is allegedly eternally unknowable - crowd is any different from anyone else with a psychological-emotional NEED to believe in the rigid separation of the mundane from the intelligently unseen, which is based on the SAME essential fear of the unknown, "God-fearing" and blind faith-based mindset of the religious in the traditional definition of religion. They just THINK they can come off as more intelligent and rational, but they're not fooling EVERYONE.

edit on 27-12-2013 by Lightworth because: (no reason given)

I dont understand what you are saying. It is impossible for either side to know what is truly out there....no one knows what happens when you die. You could maybe argue for the few people that had a near death experience but the research on that is pretty close to 50-50 id wager. Meaning for every person who thinks there is an afterlife there is another who says no. Im not sure how im trying to come off as more intelligent. This is fact. No one knows what is out there. Its why we are so split on the topic. Its all belief. Maybe someday we will have evidence that is solid and could point us in the right direction. I believe it definitely possible to answer the question why are we here and who put us here. I think there is much more out there that we don't know. But I have no clue whether we have a god or not and if anyone says im 100% sure either way they are full of #.

Can you prove that it's really impossible to know? Can you also prove that no one knows? Until you do, you can't say that it's fact. But one thing is sure: one side is right, the other isn't, because God can either exist, or non-exist.

Ansky
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The non-existence of God is also impossible to prove. By that logic, there's no reason not to believe in God.

edit on 27-12-2013 by Ansky because: (no reason given)

There's plenty of reasons, actually. I'd rather believe there is no god and that the processes of our world are a coin toss between chance and the machinations of species of varying intelligence, than believe that our world is at the mercy of a narcissistic psychopath whose greatest dream is to bask in our adoration and worship for all of eternity, and who is fully willing to destroy anyone who is not blindly grateful for his relative inefficacy.

That's just a brief summary. And quite frankly, I have never met a single believer who didn't want to believe before they ever started believing. In other words, they came to the conclusion they wanted to find.

AfterInfinity

Ansky
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The non-existence of God is also impossible to prove. By that logic, there's no reason not to believe in God.

edit on 27-12-2013 by Ansky because: (no reason given)

There's plenty of reasons, actually. I'd rather believe there is no god and that the processes of our world are a coin toss between chance and the machinations of species of varying intelligence, than believe that our world is at the mercy of a narcissistic psychopath whose greatest dream is to bask in our adoration and worship for all of eternity, and who is fully willing to destroy anyone who is not blindly grateful for his relative inefficacy.

That's just a brief summary.

edit on 27-12-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Are you saying that your only reason is because you hate God?
There's a group of atheists that also hate God: satanists. Why don't you join them? I bet you have plenty in common.

Ansky

AfterInfinity

Ansky
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The non-existence of God is also impossible to prove. By that logic, there's no reason not to believe in God.

edit on 27-12-2013 by Ansky because: (no reason given)

There's plenty of reasons, actually. I'd rather believe there is no god and that the processes of our world are a coin toss between chance and the machinations of species of varying intelligence, than believe that our world is at the mercy of a narcissistic psychopath whose greatest dream is to bask in our adoration and worship for all of eternity, and who is fully willing to destroy anyone who is not blindly grateful for his relative inefficacy.

That's just a brief summary.

edit on 27-12-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Are you saying that your only reason is because you hate God?
There's a group of atheists that also hate God: satanists. Why don't you join them? I bet you have plenty in common.

Your passive aggressive jibes don't work on someone who is well versed in their applications. It is illogical to hate something that doesn't exist, but I can (and do) disapprove of the decision to emulate the ideals represented in such imaginary figments. Including, but not limited to, the propriety of master and slave relationships, sexual inequality, the necessity of worship, the equivalent nature of love and fear, the absurdity of relying on facts for understanding and comprehension, the lack of strength within the individual self, and the denigration of all things mortal and material.

Am I supposed to admire these virtues, these ideals? Because I can't. They disgust me.

reply to post by Ansky


No way will I ever be able to believe that the Creator of the entire universe, if truly applicable, was such a petty, jealous, murderous, misogynist, slavery-endorsing (etc.) creature as whatever the "Yahweh" beast of the Old Testament actually was, which was most likely only a human ET or human-appearing ET, if there's any truth to the stories. THE overall biggest problem is ALL types of mere beliefs without any REAL or most solid (by definition) proof.

Ansky

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Ansky

 

I figure that something so obvious should be quite readily proven if proof were demanded. Facts are readily demonstrated. God is not.

You are claiming that the existence of God is not demonstrable, right? Can you prove your claim please? I'm not going to believe that just because you said so.

Again you are demonstrating a common fallacy. You also cannot prove that unicorns do not exist.

Proof comes from studying physical evidence. If there is no physical evidence then there is nothing to study.

If i were to say that unicorns are real, you would then require me to show you a unicorn to be convinced, and nothing less than a physical unicorn would do right? I could then say you cant prove that they dont exist, and i would be right because you cant provide physical evidence of something that doesnt exist.

While lack of evidence does not prove that something doesnt exist, a rule in the scientific method is that you do not include propositions which cannot be proved to your formula/working theory, with no physical evidence there is no reason to believe it.

This is what is refered to as shifting the burden of proof. Theists claim there is a god, atheists claim there is not enough evidence to believe that theory. It is not a claim that there is no god despite what youve read. We are all waiting on you to present the evidence for your claim. It is your claim.

To prove the existence of god you must present him. Nothing less will do. Otherwise we will go on believing that this universe is a natural occurance that is following the rules of physics. ( which we are coming to understand better the more we apply the rules of the scientific method) one day we will understand a great deal of it. As for now there is no reason to believe that a god or any gods ever existed.

AfterInfinity

Ansky

AfterInfinity

Ansky
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The non-existence of God is also impossible to prove. By that logic, there's no reason not to believe in God.

edit on 27-12-2013 by Ansky because: (no reason given)

There's plenty of reasons, actually. I'd rather believe there is no god and that the processes of our world are a coin toss between chance and the machinations of species of varying intelligence, than believe that our world is at the mercy of a narcissistic psychopath whose greatest dream is to bask in our adoration and worship for all of eternity, and who is fully willing to destroy anyone who is not blindly grateful for his relative inefficacy.

That's just a brief summary.

edit on 27-12-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Are you saying that your only reason is because you hate God?
There's a group of atheists that also hate God: satanists. Why don't you join them? I bet you have plenty in common.

Your passive aggressive jibes don't work on someone who is well versed in their applications. It is illogical to hate something that doesn't exist, but I can (and do) disapprove of the decision to emulate the ideals represented in such imaginary figments. Including, but not limited to, the propriety of master and slave relationships, sexual inequality, the necessity of worship, the equivalent nature of love and fear, the absurdity of relying on facts for understanding and comprehension, the lack of strength within the individual self, and the denigration of all things mortal and material.

Am I supposed to admire these virtues, these ideals? Because I can't. They disgust me.

edit on 27-12-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Rather than believe in relative man-made moral standards that are continuously declining, I'd rather believe in Jehovah, a loving, caring and protective God that wants people to be happy and free.
Unfortunately he had to wipe out a couple of cities in the past, but that was a good action because people were extremely bad. Today it's still considered a good action to imprisonate/kill bad persons. You should document yourself about armageddon.
Slavery is basically working for food, and by that (oversimplified) definition, the majority of the world's population is slave to their corporations or states. On the contrary, Adam and Eve were slaves to no one, they were truly free. Slavery is a man-made concept that God tolerated for some time, and that later Jesus abolished.

reply to post by Ansky

Rather than believe in relative man-made moral standards that are continuously declining, I'd rather believe in Jehovah, a loving, caring and protective God that wants people to be happy and free.

All morals are man-made. Even Christians can't agree on a clear-cut scale of morality. Those morals are continuously declining because we are monkeys in suits trying to succor our superiority complexes. We're naive and idealistic and greedy and arrogant and fearful and our choice in deities demonstrates all of that quite clearly. Yehovah is a perfect reflection of who we are as a species. Those who seek perfection are piteously imperfect. Those who admire omnipotence are weak on their own feet. Those who grasp for total knowledge are miserably finite in their comprehension.

But the only reason we find these attributes so worthy of disdain and contempt is because we are never satisfied. We always want more. We are greedy and arrogant, needing to believe we are meant for greater things than what we already are and what we already have. In our attempt to find meaning and purpose, we fan the flames of gluttony and pride. We are the petulant prince demanding the throne before his time. And you never even realize it.

I find those who do not ascribe their empathic compass to a higher power are less inclined to use that empathic compass as a means of exalting themselves above others. They are afforded more freedom in their life, more flexibility in their pursuit of happiness, and an overall greater scope of comprehension than might otherwise be afforded were they too frightened or reluctant to step outside their little circle of familiarity.

reply to post by bwinwright


I guess were all mentally ill then. If you wan't to see someone who is truly mentally ill just go find a jew and ask them if they are special.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by spartacus699

 

but some are atheist because they hold onto and live their lives out of pride vanity and the egoic mind.

So?

Some are religious because they like the community aspect. Some are religious because they need the psychological crutch of consoling the fear of death. Some are religious because they don't want to tell their family and friends they actually think it's BS. And some just believe it hook line and sinker.

Religious people vary not just in their reasons for believing but in their general dispositions and attitudes towards life. Atheists are no different in that respect.

Also, I hope you weren't implying the religious never live with pride, vanity, or ego...

edit on 27-12-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

True. I think what's really really weird though is that I keep hereing people say "religion". Yes I and many others in the world are I guess you could say of the Christian religion. But anyone who knows anything about it could care less about religion. None of that matters, none of that is important.

We need a foundation though so we use the KJV bible and other modern versions. But relisticly all the other aspects of this thing called "religion" which atheists seems to be totally and utterlly obcessed about, well, we could care less about.

We we do care about is just being in tune with God. So when I say atheist live out of the ego, pride and vanity what I'm saying is that's holding them back from knowing God. But there's another HUGE dilusion I can see in this form where people are somehow thinking that a personal relationship with God where you're in tune with the spirit and talk direct to God all of a sudden just is religion. There two very different things. I don't need no middle man. That's mostly man made stuff. I just go direct to the source. So forget religion, forget the middle man, you don't need any of that. Yes have a foundation to base what you're doing on, but just go direct to the source, just ask God for help and tell him you want to get to know who he is and maybe you'll get a reply. Ya wow I get it, a lot of atheists on here actually think that religion means knowing God. Talk about blind, that's totally insane.

reply to post by spartacus699

We we do care about is just being in tune with God. So when I say atheist live out of the ego, pride and vanity what I'm saying is that's holding them back from knowing God.

And I think your god is nothing but ego, pride, and vanity. He is perfection. Ego. He is the creator of all and the ruler of existence. Pride. Ergo, he and only he deserves worship from all lifeforms. Vanity.

I don't care who or what he loves or what benevolent end he claims to have in store for me or you or your neighbor. I see ego. I see pride. I see vanity. But most of all, I see ignorance.

Ya wow I get it, a lot of atheists on here actually think that religion means knowing God. Talk about blind, that's totally insane.

According to some theists, it is impossible to really know God. My understanding is that in emulating and studying God, you hope to recreate his essence within yourself so as to feel close to those ideals which he/she/it represents. And that's what scares me. A god who exalts perfection over imperfection, stagnance over progress, obedience over independence, faith over knowledge, and uniformity over individualism...and thousands of people who would be overjoyed to see such virtues made commonplace in our society. In other words, given total power in the hands of orthodox Christians, or orthodox Muslims, or orthodox Jews, this world would be nothing like it is today. But there's enough Christians and Jews and Muslims around to give us a glimpse at what such a world could have looked like.

reply to post by Nowyouseeme

Nowyouseeme
reply to post by bwinwright

 

Yeah, your post is the reason intelligent people question religion in the first place. I am not allowed to pursue a line of thinking that doesn't have a sky wizard in it without being Mentally Ill? please...

It's interesting, because this is exactly the kind of response I was thinking about that I hear all the time from Atheists. I call it "Sky Fairy Syndrome"; they realize the absurdity of certain facets of organized religions, the pervasive dogmas, the hypocritical judgmental nature of some of religion's most well-known figures, and they throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water, and close off their minds to any notion of spirituality. It's a shame really.

Just because God is not some bearded Caucasian man that sits on a huge jewel-encrusted throne in the clouds, sending his own creations to live in eternal torment forever and ever, does not mean that there is not a source intelligence, a unified field of dynamic consciousness of which all things are comprised and manifest from. I don't even like to use the term "God" as it's an extremely polarized concept that implies separation. He's God, you're you. That however, is not the case, as we are all facets of the Intelligent Infinity that is All That Is and that is the Infinite Creator.

When speaking of consciousness, I like to illustrate by using the image of a tree with it's root structure; You, as an individual, are but a single root tendril, or perhaps a leaf, but you are at all times connected to the entirety of the system which is the Yggdrasil, the Great Tree of Life.



Even if you don't believe any of that, the most stable position one could have would be to call themselves Agnostic, as no one can really be 100% sure about anything. The Atheist who is 100% sure there is no God is just as foolish as the Theist who is 100% sure there is.