Rendlesham Forest…, A Christmas Story from 1980 - Can We ‘Let it Be’?

ZetaRediculian
reply to post by mirageman

 

in your opinion, what do you think was the strangest unexplained thing that occurred?

I find Larry Warren's encounter very strange. Something Adrian Businza also talked of.

So are they lying through their teeth, were they hallucinating, or subjected to something that changed their perception of reality?

If it was none of the above then they really did see a craft in a field and small strange entities.

So I am open to the possibility that the incident was a combination of natural phenomena and a secret test or experiment rather than space aliens, or time travellers. That might explain the low key nature of the way it was dealt with at the time by senior officers. Andrew Pike's studies may also help to explain some of the details as well.

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


CardDown has a very interesting thread on Cash Landrum

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Again this was probably something military and happened days after Rendlesham.

reply to post by mirageman


Misperception, group dynamics, and inconsistently evolving testimony of this type doesn't really require the invention of a super-secret military psy-op conspiracy. It happens all the time and is not limited to the field of UFOlogy. It's human nature.

reply to post by draknoir2


A bit of a sweeping general answer that may satisfy your own mind. But I still think there are so many loose ends that have never been clarified satisfactorily. Here is another part of the case.

If it really was all down to a few USAF personnel goofing around then why is John Burroughs, the only witness present on two nights to the events, still fighting to have his own medical records released. In fact despite his service at Bentwaters being very public it seems his time serving his country from 1979 - 1983 could not be verified.



If nothing happened then why not come straight out with it and say his condition is not related to his period of service in the United States Air Force during 1980.


Even Senator John McCain has been stonewalled.





Source :www.earthfiles.com...

I've already posted a number of questions that I have never found a reasonable answer to. Perhaps you'd like to go back and give your thoughts in detail on each of the points?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There is some pretty decent information here, albeit going around in circles. After all the years of debate, perhaps worth while saving the energy for the book, after all this will or should create further discussions I would think? For any newbies a lot of info here would be considered interesting, but, in honesty it really is not reaching any ending/conclusion. When it comes to the Penniston Binary Codes,this may be of interest.

Recent information suggests that little will be said in the new book re the binary.


Quote Gary Osborn, " I'm quite certain that the subject of the binary code is NOT going to be addressed in any great depth in the new book by Penniston, Burroughs and Pope, as the book will focus on the events surrounding the incident, but I hope to discuss it soon after the book is published seeing as I have been involved and personally I have a lot of questions of my own concerning the information contained in the code." end quote.

Pope. MoD. Rendlesham. Bet there's a reason for his participation. Once a company man, always a company man. He even admits it. On his AMA here for example.

Has the mysterious Steve Roberts been discussed already?
One week after the incidents he was already feeding the UFO community stories about the base commander helping little aliens repair their spaceship. Maybe this story was not only planted into the UFO community but also spread on the base. Larry could have picked it up and used it.

It’s a perfect way to mess up the real story, whatever it may be.

Guest101
One week after the incidents he was already feeding the UFO community stories about the base commander helping little aliens repair their spaceship. Maybe this story was not only planted into the UFO community but also spread on the base. Larry could have picked it up and used it.

It’s a perfect way to mess up the real story, whatever it may be.

Hi Guest101, here are some excerpts from the book “Left At East Gate” about that repair story which shows to me that Larry did not have picked it up and used it.
And why do you think that Larry would have used someone else's story btw?
He is already being accused for doing such by Jim Penniston and John Burroughs, so that he has used the story of Adrian Bustinza for his own and which is definitely not true either in my opinion.

May-June 1982
The American magazine, Frontiers of Science, reports this variation of the third night's incidents: An utterly fantastic UFO case is under intense investigation in England. If true, it could be the breakthrough ufologists have been waiting for.
As reported in the January 1982 issue of Case Histories, published by the Northern UFO Network (c/o Jenny Randles..., England), the story is this: On December 30, 1980, a farmer in the vicinity of Rendlesham forest... called Woodbridge Air Force Base to report a plane crash. The base police investigated and reported the "plane" was a UFO. Someone from the base newspaper went to the scene with both still and
movie cameras and filmed the object on the ground.
The base commander took a high-level security team to view the damaged object. According to a member of the team, three entities (about three feet tall and dressed in silvery suits) were suspended in mid-air beside the craft, repairing the damage. The commander is said to have spoken with the entities while they worked. Four hours later the craft took off at great speed.

Quote Larry;

The story was finally out of my hands.
Within days, Larry Fawcett and I were invited to tape an interview for the BBC program "Breakfast Time" at their New York studio in Rockefeller Center. I insisted on being shadowed or "blacked out" for the program, to which their interviewer Bob Friend agreed. After discussing some details of what I'd experienced, Friend asked me to comment on some of the wilder rumors surrounding the incident: was
it true we'd given the aliens assistance in repairing their craft? "No!" I said. "Where would we get the parts from, UFO supply?" The reporter laughed. I added that the claim about Gordon Williams shaking hands with the beings was nonsense as well. The program aired in England the next morning, and I hoped it would put an end to all the nonsense once and for all.

reply to post by mysteriousperson


I agree this is going round and round because it's like solving a huge jigsaw puzzle. One where there is no picture on the box, a fair few pieces are missing and the even the ones you have may not actually form part of the whole picture.

So maybe it is best to let it be until we can see what revelations Jim, John and Nick come up with in their book.

mirageman

So maybe it is best to let it be until we can see what revelations Jim, John and Nick come up with in their book.

That's for the time being indeed the best thing to do mirageman.

reply to post by spacevisitor


Larry Warren was out there in the forest – this has been confirmed by both Battram and Bustinza – but did he partake in the close encounters?

Steve Roberts (pseudonym, his real identity has never been revealed) worked at the base and was a friend of Brenda Butler and Chris Pennington. He told Brenda two stories:

In 1981 (right after the incident): A UFO had landed and the base commander had communicated with aliens.
In 1987: He was ordered to spread this hoax story back in 1980 and Brenda should forget about it.

Bruni tracked him down and found out he was with A Flight (so he could have been with Battram and his team). In an interview with Bruni he was evasive but told he saw the UFO up in the sky, not on the ground. He also told Bruni to pay special attention to Halt’s memo because it was pretty accurate.

What if Steve Roberts is right? What if an exaggerated version of the events was spread deliberately?
What if Bustinza also was ordered to spread this story back in 1980? From Bruni’s interviews with him we know he was put under a lot of pressure.

It would put Bustinza in a very tight spot.

Larry in LEAG (p 74): “One extremely foggy night [April 1981], I found a note pushed under the door to my room. It was from Bustinza.”
“Adrian said he knew I was getting out sooner than he and wanted me to have some facts before I left. He and others wanted the story out and felt I could get the ball rolling.”
“We shared our thoughts about the underground base, and although I was unsure about what was real and what was imagined, he assured me the place existed and was an alien installation.”

Halt about Bustinza when Halt was interviewed for LEAG (p 331):
“Adrian’s over his head. Adrian doesn’t want to do too much.”

Adrian Bustinza seems to be holding the key, but he doesn’t seem very eager to solve this puzzle.

Earlier in this thread I found the following message from Bustinza, which he sent to Ronnie Dugdale in October last year (2013).

“OK I will say this YES, YES Larry was their!!! But so was John, and the rest of the Guy's. I know who was with me at all three different times of one night because I was instructed to go with certain guy's and to go pick-up certain Lt's, Sgt's and Yes I was all over the place because I was the NCOIC that night! That means that I could go anywhere and I did. Light All's units, Trucks, Fuel Depot, Field, communicating back and forth both verbally in person and over the Radio!

So with that said I will say "GOODBYE to All...I am tired of seeing my friends bicker with one another and mostly seeing them questioned and ridiculed about the events that no one can say happened or did not happen except those few that were their! God Bless all of you and "Good Will Hunting

"Busty then Buzz Now and forever! Alpha-1 signing out!!!!”


Another possibility of course is that Steve Roberts’ first story was the truth, and Halt is part of the cover-up.
We’ll probably never find out..

mirageman
reply to post by draknoir2

 

A bit of a sweeping general answer that may satisfy your own mind. But I still think there are so many loose ends that have never been clarified satisfactorily.

Please explain exactly what part of my post was not true.



My mind does not need to be satisfied with a conventional explanation, but for an exotic one it will require convincing beyond vague references in news clippings and an invitation to "connect the dots".

Guest101Steve Roberts (pseudonym, his real identity has never been revealed)

Steve Roberts is generally acknowledged to have been someone called J. D. Ingalls. He wasn't involved himself but heard about the story from others and spun a yarn to impress Brenda.

Cheers all,it shall be interesting to call in and view this thread after the 22nd April to see how comments and thoughts transpire on the matter.

reply to post by draknoir2


You didn't say anything untrue. To be honest I wasn't really aiming this at you.

I was airing my own frustrations at being able to get any resolution to this after going over it for weeks. Too much chaff to sift through.

I am going to see what's revealed in the book in April from Pope, Penniston and Burroughs ( which sounds like a bunch of Catholic lawyers!) .

So I am giving it all a rest for a while (definitely this time - I think I need to.)

Hello,
This is my first post here, so go easy! I remember reading about the Rendlesham incident many years ago, and it has always interested me, but I wanted to share an observation about the so-called "binary co-ordinates". I'm pretty certain that these are a total red herring, which in turn have been misinterpreted and produced an ever redder herring!

Let me explain.

The co-ordinates (or at least the first ones that were publicly released) were given as: 52.0942532N, 13.131269W.

This is a spot out in the Atlantic to the SW of Ireland, supposedly the site of the mythical Hy-Brasil.

However, here are the co-ordinates of the main market square at the centre of Woodbridge, Suffolk, as shown here: goo.gl...

52.0942532N, 1.3131269E

Let's have a look at those.

52.0942532N, 13.131269W
52.0942532N, 1.3131269E

What are the chances of that, eh? Swap west for east, shift the decimal point one spot (the decimal point, incidentally, doesn't seem to have been present in the original "code"), and the co-ordinates point to the dead centre of Woodbridge, the nearest big town to RAF Bentwaters (and the name of the twin military base, to boot).

This also explains the discrepancy of the latitude co-ordinate having 7 digits after the decimal point, but the longitude one having only 6 digits: the decimal point is in the wrong place!

This, to me, points to an obvious and sloppily done hoax, whether done by Penniston for financial or celebrity gain, or by unknown persons to spread misinformation.

When I first noticed this a year or two back, if you entered "Woodbridge, Suffolk" into Google Maps, it dropped the marker at precisely those co-ordinates. I assume they use a different database now, as the marker now appears in a slightly different spot if you search for Woodbridge. However it is unquestionably true that, as of a few years ago, if you searched for "Woodbridge" on the most common mapping site on the internet you got the exact spot *to six or seven decimal places* as the amended co-ordinates. Presumably Google Maps inherited its location database from some other gazetteer, which may have been around since before the web.

So, I ask you, what is more likely? Penniston received a binary code from aliens which pointed to a probably mythical island that just so happens to be on the EXACT same latitude as Woodbridge market square and EXACTLY a factor of 10 further west from the Greenwich meridian as that same market square is to the east...

or...

someone wanted to come up with some sort of numbers of cosmic significance, latched onto RAF Woodbridge/RAF Bentwaters, looked up the co-ordinates of Woodbridge and then screwed up their east and west? And a later researcher, seeing nothing of interest at 1.3131269W, decided it must be 13.131269W instead?

I know which my money is on.

Edit: I see that there is a brief mention of the possible east/west and decimal point confusion at www.therendleshamforestincident.com... and again on the same site at www.therendleshamforestincident.com...

but it then makes the leap of logic that the Woodbridge location is obviously wrong and the "Hy-Brasil" location is correct.

I just don't see it. Given how shoddily the code seems to have been written ("COODINATE", "CONTINUOT UQS" ) it is hardly a great surprise that the co-ordinates got jumbled. And all the more reason to suspect a hoax, unless the aliens' spell-checker was on the blink.

Note that I am not (necessarily) saying that nothing happened at Rendlesham - but I do think that all this later stuff about "touching the craft" and "downloading data" are just bunk that does nothing but obfuscate whatever did happen. It smacks of desperation - but whether through desperation by Penniston et al to spin out their story, or of someone else seeking to discredit them, I couldn't say.

reply to post by Rob48


I agree, Rob48, there is no doubt in my mind that the binary codes are a load of bunk.
Google maps was using Teleatlas map data back then. They now gather their own map data.

If people can’t get a story straight, or tell something completely inconsistent with the others, this should ring a few alarm bells. Jim Penniston is not the only one; Adrian Bustinza and Larry Warren have also changed essential parts of their story through the years.

Whether these are deliberate disinformation attempts or just hoaxes for their own fun and glory, we’ll probably never know. Hypnotic regression may have also played a part.

Penniston once said he never believed in aliens, never had and never will. So in his eyes it had to be time travelers. Maybe he is trying to convince us, too?

Anyway, I expect Penniston’s book will not shed any light on this case but will only add to the confusion.

Up till now Halt and Burroughs have been pretty consistent over the years. Their stories match the available documents and the tape to a great degree. Nevels told his story in 2010 and it corresponds with that of Halt. Halt, Nevels, and Ball probably were the most senior and mature people out there.

Monroe Nevels:
“I could blink my eye and they were gone, and there was no sound.”
“I don’t know where it was from. We cannot go that fast and we have absolutely nothing that is that quiet. Where is the technology coming from? It had to be from somewhere.”

Charles Halt:
“The objects moved rapidly in sharp, angular movements and displayed red, green and blue lights.”
“I believe the objects that I saw at close quarter were extraterrestrial in origin.”

Bob Ball:
“We saw .. flying objects containing .. maybe other people or another life form.”
“Right now I do believe that UFO’s exist. Up until that point I’ve been skeptical. Now I believe there may have been someone else there.”

These men spent several hours observing these objects.
So in spite of all the rubbish surrounding the RFI, it is still an interesting and compelling UFO case.

Excerpted from Vallee's REVELATIONS: Alien Contact and Human Deception:

…Suppose that for the last thirty years or so a massive effort has been going on within U.S. government agencies such as the CIA, the NRO,and the Air Force, to study the UFO phenomenon. Not in an attempt to really solve it, since such a solution is still beyond the reach of our science, but in an effort to use it, to manipulate it as a cover for something else.

Perhaps our military scientists have discovered a way to manufacture flying disks as a platform for reconnaissance operations, for intelligence gathering, for counterterrorism. Some of my contacts tell me that these disks do fly and vary in size from two feet for laser-ranging devices and automated flying cameras to thirty or forty feet for the devices used for such physiological effects as putting people to sleep or inducing paralysis or hallucinations in enemy troops. And such devices do exist,either in test sites across the U.S. or on the drawing boards of various Silicon Valley firms andWashington think tanks. These nonlethal weapons have been actually deployed in various counterterrorism operations around the world. It would be important to keep the knowledge of this technology secure, although hundreds of people are clearly in a position to observe it from time to time. Making people believe that they are observing flying saucers might be a clever ploy.

Let us not forget that Bill Moore, the originator of the MJ-12 case, worked for Agent Doty of OSI, and thatAgent Doty, alias Falcon, worked for an Air Force officer named Hennessey, who was head of security for the Stealth project. Perhaps this connection is perfectly innocent or spurious. But why is there no official effort to clarify it once and for all? If the mysterious Falcon is only a helpless turkey, why not expose him before the world?

In the failed Desert One operation of April 1980, organized by the Carter administration to attempt the heroic rescue of the American hostages from Tehran, some witnesses claim to have seen a disk resembling a UFO. It was said to be a platform for nonlethal weapons, intended to paralyze or otherwise disable the Iranian guards. And the code word for that part of the operation, of which Richard Secord and Oliver North had been among the planners, was none other than Snowbird , a name that my reader may recall seeing before. It is the code word that Bill Cooper claims to have seen attached to a secret project to test flying saucers captured from alleged extraterrestrial aliens....Again, we need to ask, which is the cover and which is the genuine project? What better cover is there for such craft, if they are tested at Dreamland, than the UFO phenomenon itself? What better channel for deception is there than the groups of true believers who are already convinced that the extraterrestrials are about to land?...

What if that deception has other goals, even more far-reaching? To the New Age idealists, the announcement that aliens are here would bring the culmination of many decades of dreams. It would validate all their group meditations on mountaintops, the loving hopes, the prayers for peace. It would give all of us something to worship at a time when the leaders of our traditional religions have made fools of themselves, at a time when the younger generation has very few heroes it can look up to. To the hardened ufologist, it would bring respectability at last,vindication after years of dedicated, lonely research, a chance to confront such skeptics as Philip Klass and Carl Sagan (or perhaps, in a more mundane way, a doubting brother-in-law) and to tell them “I told you so!”

The revelations that aliens are here, that flying disks have been captured, are too good to be true.But if these claims have been manufactured to provide a cover for real flying platforms, then these false revelations suddenly make perfect sense. Engineers and military officers telling their children on their deathbeds about the strange technology they have seen over the Nevada desert will be able to come up with nothing more specific than a muddled story of flying saucers and extraterrestrial craft, because the cover sticks closely to the imagery of the ufologists that already exists in the surrounding culture. Thus the secret can always be preserved. And it is possible to focus that imagery, through a few carefully crafted hoaxes, into the expectation of a particular type of entity, a particular kind of craft.


REVELATIONS: Alien Contact and Human Deception (PDF)

reply to post by The GUT


Vallee is a great ‘out-of-the-box’ thinker. The story you posted makes me think of the Cash-Landrum case (29 December 1980).

To throw in another theory:

There are big similarities between Rendlesham and Hessdalen (Norway). Both have a long folklore of strange phenomena.
The Hessdalen lights have been studied scientifically for years, albeit on a very tight budget.

They have been photographed and filmed by the scientists (see videos below – a lot of pictures can be found on Google and on the Hessdalen site).
Their description on the Hessdalen site ( www.hessdalen.org... ) does make you think of the RFI:

The phenomena can be divided in these categories:
1 – A white or blue-white flashing light. They are usually high up in the air. Their living time is usually short, typical some seconds. Sometimes they have been seen for a minute, but seldom any longer time.
2 - A yellow light, with a red light on the top. This red light can be flashing.
3 - A yellow or white light. This is the most common description of the Hessdalen Phenomena. This light can stand still for more than an hour. It can move around slowly down in the valley, stop sometimes for minutes, start moving again. The shape is often round as a ball. Sometimes there are other shapes.
4 - A black "object" with light on. This has been reported several times in Hessdalen.

These videos are worth a watch:

Guest101
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Larry Warren was out there in the forest – this has been confirmed by both Battram and Bustinza – but did he partake in the close encounters?

I believe he did and even Halt has confirmed that Larry was out there in the forest.
I assume that you have read Adrian Bustinza’s interview that he had with Larry Fawcett in 1987.
Adrian confirms in that interview except three points everything Larry had sad to Fawcett and even about the smallest details.
I do not believe that someone who wasn’t there could have known so many details about what happened there, even about things that had nothing to do with the craft in that field.
Then even was capable of writing that very detailed book “Left At East Gate” about it with his co-author Peter Robbins?

Guest101

Steve Roberts (pseudonym, his real identity has never been revealed) worked at the base and was a friend of Brenda Butler and Chris Pennington. He told Brenda two stories:

In 1981 (right after the incident): A UFO had landed and the base commander had communicated with aliens.
In 1987: He was ordered to spread this hoax story back in 1980 and Brenda should forget about it.

Bruni tracked him down and found out he was with A Flight (so he could have been with Battram and his team). In an interview with Bruni he was evasive but told he saw the UFO up in the sky, not on the ground. He also told Bruni to pay special attention to Halt’s memo because it was pretty accurate.

What if Steve Roberts is right? What if an exaggerated version of the events was spread deliberately?

Well, if I am correct did Georgina Bruni after she had that interview with him not know what to do with his story because he created over the years several completely different stories, so I do not take his sayings serious.

Guest101

What if Bustinza also was ordered to spread this story back in 1980? From Bruni’s interviews with him we know he was put under a lot of pressure.

I do not believe that Adrian was ordered to spread his story back in 1980 as an exaggerated version of the events. I believe he was just as the other witnesses being severely threatened to keep his/their mouth shut about it all that’s why he doesn’t want to say anything about it and did send his letter to Ronnie Dugdale.

Guest101

Larry in LEAG (p 74): “One extremely foggy night [April 1981], I found a note pushed under the door to my room. It was from Bustinza.”
“Adrian said he knew I was getting out sooner than he and wanted me to have some facts before I left. He and others wanted the story out and felt I could get the ball rolling.”
“We shared our thoughts about the underground base, and although I was unsure about what was real and what was imagined, he assured me the place existed and was an alien installation.”

Halt about Bustinza when Halt was interviewed for LEAG (p 331):
“Adrian’s over his head. Adrian doesn’t want to do too much.”

Adrian Bustinza seems to be holding the key, but he doesn’t seem very eager to solve this puzzle.

I fully agree with your last remark, I am convinced that Adrian is holding the key but that he has most likely very good reasons to keep his mouth shut about it.

Guest101

Another possibility of course is that Steve Roberts’ first story was the truth, and Halt is part of the cover-up.

Halt is in my view in a position that he cannot speak out about many things that happened there and he even tried to discredit Larry right from the beginning with false accusations as you can see here in this phone call Peter Robbins had with him.

in 1981: the writer had gotten them from the thief. Peter checks the wire running between the telephone and recorder, pushes "on," and takes a deep breath: he has waited almost five years to make this call. The number is then dialed and a phone rings in the home of Charles Halt:
CH. Hello.
PR. Mr. Halt?
CH. Yes.
PR. This Peter Robbins, calling from New York.
CH. Oh, Peter Robbins! How are you? I've looked forward
to
talking to you...
PR. Same with me... Did I pick a good time to call?
CH. Oh that's fine, I can talk for about ten minutes or so.
PR. ... How long have you been retired, sir?
CH. About a year...
PR. Is it all right with you if I record this?
CH. Go ahead...
PR. I know... that men who were involved... are countering each other's accounts... and you've been very outspoken about what Larry says his participation was in that,
and I just wanted...
CH. His participation wasn't.
PR. Why do you say that?
CH. Because he didn't come on duty until the middle of January, and I can show you documentation to prove that.
PR. Well, obviously I would like to see it, I'm sitting here with some of his service record in front of me...
CH. ... Oh you got his service record, good... Where did you find them? I'm curious.

So because of that and other things is Halt in my opinion indeed being part of the cover-up.

Guest101

We’ll probably never find out.

Surely not about everything.

Guest101

If people can’t get a story straight, or tell something completely inconsistent with the others, this should ring a few alarm bells. Jim Penniston is not the only one; Adrian Bustinza and Larry Warren have also changed essential parts of their story through the years.

Whether these are deliberate disinformation attempts or just hoaxes for their own fun and glory, we’ll probably never know.

Can you give me some examples which essential parts of Adrian Bustinza and Larry Warren’s story have changed through the years?