Woman dies after pharmacy refuses to give her EpiPen

toastyr

NavyDoc

toastyr
reply to post by whitewave

 

What pill? What are you going on about? Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't work, you can buy vitamin C in powder form and drink it in water, doesn't take long and is life saving.

Try it next time you get an asthma attack, better yet go check out the liposomal vitamin C thread and give that a shot, works wonders in prevention too for many ailments.

You seriously are suggesting giving someone in the process of anaphylaxis with potential airway edema and loss of consciousness something by mouth?


Please stop giving medical advice.

No, not someone who is unconscious or close to it. And before you imply, I wouldn't give it to a dead person either.

Are you seriously suggesting someone not try the vitamin C if that's the only choice? Really?

There is a safe window to administer the vitamin C in many cases, unless they are not prepared, such as the case here.

You said it was "life saving." Was the person's life really in danger or was that just hyperbole? Anaphylaxis is a medial emergency. If you are talking about a little swelling, sure go for it, but we are talking about anaphylaxis, which is a heck of a lot more than "feeling a little puffy."

NavyDoc

toastyr

NavyDoc

toastyr
reply to post by whitewave

 

What pill? What are you going on about? Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't work, you can buy vitamin C in powder form and drink it in water, doesn't take long and is life saving.

Try it next time you get an asthma attack, better yet go check out the liposomal vitamin C thread and give that a shot, works wonders in prevention too for many ailments.

You seriously are suggesting giving someone in the process of anaphylaxis with potential airway edema and loss of consciousness something by mouth?


Please stop giving medical advice.

No, not someone who is unconscious or close to it. And before you imply, I wouldn't give it to a dead person either.

Are you seriously suggesting someone not try the vitamin C if that's the only choice? Really?

There is a safe window to administer the vitamin C in many cases, unless they are not prepared, such as the case here.

You said it was "life saving." Was the person's life really in danger or was that just hyperbole? Someone does not have to be unconscious to be having an impending airway compromise as expected in anaphylaxis. If you truly suspect an anaphylactic episode, the last thing you should be doing is putting anything in his mouth. Anaphylaxis is a medial emergency. If you are talking about a little swelling, sure go for it, but we are talking about anaphylaxis, which is a heck of a lot more than "feeling a little puffy."

ldyserenity

NavyDoc

ldyserenity
You shouldn't need a prescription for things like Epipens and inhalers, these are life saving pharmaceuticals and I am not aware of anyway to misuse or abuse these drugs it's a money making scheme...with us as so much refuse not worth the drugs that could save our lives for what? A freaking dr's pay?? It's retarded.

Inhalers can cause cardiac dysrhythmias that can be life threatening in susceptible people, which is why they and their side effects should be monitored by a health professional. Physicians do not get paid by what they do or do not prescribe.

More examples of people who don't have a clue.

There's only 1 type of people greedier than the Banks and that's the medical profession.

edit on 2013/12/23 by ldyserenity because: Add

And see...there is the reason why you cannot even consider this sort of thing objectively. You start from the basis of ignorant prejudice and cannot even comprehend alternative reasons why something may be the way it is.

I bet you cannot, without Googling, list potential adverse side effects of a large amount of injected adrenaline.

NavyDoc

toastyr

NavyDoc

toastyr
reply to post by whitewave

 

What pill? What are you going on about? Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't work, you can buy vitamin C in powder form and drink it in water, doesn't take long and is life saving.

Try it next time you get an asthma attack, better yet go check out the liposomal vitamin C thread and give that a shot, works wonders in prevention too for many ailments.

You seriously are suggesting giving someone in the process of anaphylaxis with potential airway edema and loss of consciousness something by mouth?


Please stop giving medical advice.

No, not someone who is unconscious or close to it. And before you imply, I wouldn't give it to a dead person either.

Are you seriously suggesting someone not try the vitamin C if that's the only choice? Really?

There is a safe window to administer the vitamin C in many cases, unless they are not prepared, such as the case here.

You said it was "life saving." Was the person's life really in danger or was that just hyperbole? Anaphylaxis is a medial emergency. If you are talking about a little swelling, sure go for it, but we are talking about anaphylaxis, which is a heck of a lot more than "feeling a little puffy."

What kind of question is that? An allergic reaction is hyperbole? Whoa, what is up with you?

reply to post by NavyDoc


There's no way to od on it, one pen contains the dosage in moderation, unless you asked for 40 damn pens you're not going to overdose...I was an EMT in the ARMY and yes I could list them, but you'd have to be abusing the drug again to even come near that.
ETA: Nobody that doesn't need the drug would ever use it, nobody would not use it for anything but what it's intended for with any common sense it isn't like you can get high off it.
Nobody without severe allergy reactions even knows about this drug unless they're a medical professional or someone they know is a person who needs it. What do you really think people are going to be going around just shooting up epipens lol. or shooting other people with it (with guns so readily available?) REALLY??? HAHAHAHA

toastyr
reply to post by whitewave

 

I suggested it for the girl as a last option when the system failed and also for others as prevention, if you feel an attack coming on, give it a shot. Stop implying anything else.

I also want to know more about the bleeding, first I've read of it, care to start a new thread on this or send me some info? Thanks.

I'm not implying anything. I'm declaring emphatically: Vitamin C is not the recommended, preferred or safe alternative to epinephrine in cases of anaphylaxis.
If you want more information on my experience with liposomal C, please read the entire thread that you linked as I already posted my experience there.

reply to post by whitewave


I'm declaring emphatically: that declaring emphatically does not make your statement any more true, does it.

Vitamin C is great prevention for anaphylactic shock. If the person is unconscious there is the IV route for vitamin C. Too bad they don't make vitamin C in a travel kit like a pen.

Thanks anyway for your story, I don't want to search that massive thread, no biggy it appears anyway.

There are also Good Samaritan laws that state NO ONE is REQUIRED to help you in a medical emergency and that they are exempt from liability if they do help you. The exception to that is if you have any medical training and state it then you are expected to act in that capacity. In other words, if a nurse shows up at the scene of a heart attack and says, "I'm a nurse, let me help", then the nurse is expected to do all the things a nurse would do which is impossible if they don't have access to a crash cart full of life-saving drugs, a code blue team, an on-call surgeon, etc. The Good Samaritan can only act as a first responder. The pharmacist, or anyone else standing around in the pharmacy or the child's mother for that matter could have acted in a first responder capacity.

I've had my blood sugar drop to 16! while at work in a hospital setting and couldn't get my fellow nurses to so much as fetch me a carton of orange juice. True story. I stumbled towards the cafeteria, stood in line eating off my tray and rested the full 30 minutes I was allowed for lunch. Point being, we are all responsible for our own health, especially on known existing conditions. The pharmacist did what they are legally allowed to do as is recommended for all of us.

whitewave
There are also Good Samaritan laws that state NO ONE is REQUIRED to help you in a medical emergency and that they are exempt from liability if they do help you. The exception to that is if you have any medical training and state it then you are expected to act in that capacity. In other words, if a nurse shows up at the scene of a heart attack and says, "I'm a nurse, let me help", then the nurse is expected to do all the things a nurse would do which is impossible if they don't have access to a crash cart full of life-saving drugs, a code blue team, an on-call surgeon, etc. The Good Samaritan can only act as a first responder. The pharmacist, or anyone else standing around in the pharmacy or the child's mother for that matter could have acted in a first responder capacity.

I've had my blood sugar drop to 16! while at work in a hospital setting and couldn't get my fellow nurses to so much as fetch me a carton of orange juice. True story. I stumbled towards the cafeteria, stood in line eating off my tray and rested the full 30 minutes I was allowed for lunch. Point being, we are all responsible for our own health, especially on known existing conditions. The pharmacist did what they are legally allowed to do as is recommended for all of us.

No they didn't call for emergency services...they could have done that.

reply to post by cuckooold


I'm surprised the parent didn't start a robbery or riot right then and there. I'm sure the shoppers would have assisted them. I'm sure she did all she thought she could do but I can't imagine letting something like that get in my way from saving my child's life. Likewise, the employee should have risked imprisonment to help them.

Priorities...

reply to post by ldyserenity

Agreed. Have you ever seen someone dying right in front of you? Even with training, it's very disconcerting. I've seen doctors break down and cry during code blue situations and have to be prompted to take the next step in the code protocols. Someone should have called an ambulance. Maybe the mother?

reply to post by whitewave


I don't know I have seen someone already cold dead and the family wanted me to do CPR, she was cold as ice in 98 degree weather, than I told them she's gone, that isn't going to help. But I guess I am more desensitized from years of horror movies I really don't know I just don't have the same reactions that would be deemed normal, if I did I would have choked to death the other night and that was MY LIFE on the line but many people will go panicky and choke it's keeping a cool head that is the hard part I understand that.

I guess because I am the way I am I can't understand people at the opposite end of the spectrum.

Hmmm, didn't see this in the OP, from here.

The pharmacy regulatory body, the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland (PSI), has begun an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the girl's death, as have gardai.

And they have found that Emma could have received the injection under an "emergency supply" rule.

PSI guidelines state that emergency supply "can be carried out at the request of a patient or at the request of a prescriber", in this case any pharmacy.

reply to post by toastyr


Wow that makes it worse.

I don't think they have the rule here, especially since well pharmacists are not really even trained to give any medication all they are trained here to do is to count out the pills and fill scripts.

Practically a trained monkey can be a pharmacist here in the good ol' U.S.A.

I've once authored a thread entitled "Human Resources" that outlines my philosophy regarding our responsibilities to each other (and their responsibilities to us). That philosophy of refusing to be a human resource for the consumption of others no matter the circumstance permeates my daily living.

While compassion, courage and empathy should always be guiding attributes in our dealings with one another, the opposite-an insistence that others live their live and perform to my satisfaction is an grossly offensive affront to my sovereign humanity. I extend this philosophy to others, not expecting them to do for me so that I don't have to do for myself.

When I see the general public outraged that someone else didn't step up and accept the consequences for one persons lack of personal responsibility, I'm offended. The offense isn't directed at anyone in particular but at, what I believe to be, a flawed ideology and one that is damaging to us all.

reply to post by toastyr


Does that law apply here in the U.S.? It's my understanding (based on an actual court case in which I was involved) that pharmacists are strictly prohibited from DISPENSING medications without a prescription. If it does apply to U.S. pharmacists, I'd be surprised to find any pharmacists that are aware of it. Still, good to know.

toastyr

NavyDoc

toastyr

NavyDoc

toastyr
reply to post by whitewave

 

What pill? What are you going on about? Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't work, you can buy vitamin C in powder form and drink it in water, doesn't take long and is life saving.

Try it next time you get an asthma attack, better yet go check out the liposomal vitamin C thread and give that a shot, works wonders in prevention too for many ailments.

You seriously are suggesting giving someone in the process of anaphylaxis with potential airway edema and loss of consciousness something by mouth?


Please stop giving medical advice.

No, not someone who is unconscious or close to it. And before you imply, I wouldn't give it to a dead person either.

Are you seriously suggesting someone not try the vitamin C if that's the only choice? Really?

There is a safe window to administer the vitamin C in many cases, unless they are not prepared, such as the case here.

You said it was "life saving." Was the person's life really in danger or was that just hyperbole? Anaphylaxis is a medial emergency. If you are talking about a little swelling, sure go for it, but we are talking about anaphylaxis, which is a heck of a lot more than "feeling a little puffy."

What kind of question is that? An allergic reaction is hyperbole? Whoa, what is up with you?

If you eat something and start to itch, that is an allergic reaction, but certainly not life threatening. If you go into anaphylaxis, that is also an allergic reaction but this reaction is life threatening. When you said that vitamin C was lifesaving, did you mean that the person was actually in a life threatening situation or not? If you said "life saver" as an expression of gratitude or relief of taking care of a minor issue, then that is hyperbole and this is fine as people frequently use that sort of expression. If you meant literally life saving, as in the patient was at risk of dying of anaphylaxis, then a bit of an education was proper. So which was it? Was the person actually dying or was the statement "life saving" a bit of hyperbole?

ldyserenity
reply to post by whitewave

 

I don't know I have seen someone already cold dead and the family wanted me to do CPR, she was cold as ice in 98 degree weather, than I told them she's gone, that isn't going to help. But I guess I am more desensitized from years of horror movies I really don't know I just don't have the same reactions that would be deemed normal, if I did I would have choked to death the other night and that was MY LIFE on the line but many people will go panicky and choke it's keeping a cool head that is the hard part I understand that.

I guess because I am the way I am I can't understand people at the opposite end of the spectrum.

edit on 2013/12/23 by ldyserenity because: edited sentence and puctuation

My first ER rotation I learned the guideline "they aren't dead until they are warm and dead."

ldyserenity
reply to post by cuckooold

 

And this is why I don't have faith or trust in our medical community, when profits are valued over human life than you know there's no hope for any real help if you are sick, dying, or traumatized.

What about this situation has anything at all to do with profit? Nothing, but we trot out "profit" to blame for everything imaginable. The fact is there is a law prohibiting dispensing this device without a prescription. Why? because those who made the law decided people are not smart enough to use this drug responsibly. In fact, several laws held the pharmacy's feet to the fire. The pharmacy can't win on this one, so they followed the law of the land. You can fault them for following the law of the land, and you can fault those people who made it the law of the land, and you can fault the family for being oblivious, but "profit" has nothing to do with it.

toastyr
reply to post by whitewave

 

I'm declaring emphatically: that declaring emphatically does not make your statement any more true, does it.

Vitamin C is great prevention for anaphylactic shock. If the person is unconscious there is the IV route for vitamin C. Too bad they don't make vitamin C in a travel kit like a pen.

Thanks anyway for your story, I don't want to search that massive thread, no biggy it appears anyway.

"Anaphylactic shock." Vitamin C is a pressor now too? Vasoconstrictor? I'd like to see some reputable data on this. Also would like to see the definition of "shock" you are using.