Woman dies after pharmacy refuses to give her EpiPen

reply to post by BMorris


Both sides can be supported but you seem not to realize that there is a need to change procedures and promote a better addressing of humane needs, be it for changes in the laws or a simple alterations of social behaviors. The simple acceptance of occurrence as something normal, acceptable and excusable is what should cause disgust and outrage...

toastyr
Wow, so sad, she was in a pharmacy too, mega dose vitamin C would have most likely helped in lue of an epipen.

I have researched and found that vitamin C works great for anaphylaxis episodes, even most snake bites, bee stings etc......

Are you serious? A pill takes about 30-45 minutes to digest which means she would have been dead for approximately 30-45 minutes before the pill could've helped. Epinephrine comes in injectable form for a reason.

I've actually gone to a pharmacy during an asthma attack WITH a prescription (for an inhaler) and been told I'll "have to wait my turn". Mind you, my lips were turning blue and my finger tips were already tingling from lack of oxygen. Several other people who were ahead of me complained that I was trying to "cut in line". The pharmacist was kind enough to call an ambulance for me and by the time they got there I was passed out on the pharmacy floor. A shot of epinephrine was given which allowed me to breathe well enough to "wait my turn" at the pharmacy. Needless to say, I don't go to that pharmacy anymore.

In this woman's case, she had no excuse and the pharmacy is not to blame for her lack of prepping, common sense or appropriate actions. Tragic story all the same.

reply to post by whitewave


What pill? What are you going on about? Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't work, you can buy vitamin C in powder form and drink it in water, doesn't take long and is life saving.

Try it next time you get an asthma attack, better yet go check out the liposomal vitamin C thread and give that a shot, works wonders in prevention too for many ailments.

reply to post by toastyr


I think if i was going into anaphylactic shock the last thing on my mind would be Vitim C, I would be much more bothered about a nice shot of adrenalin.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


To each his own, I actually carry a jar of liposomal vitamin C everywhere, lol, call me crazy but it has worked several times. Several of my nephews are allergic to peanuts, one has used liposomal vitamin C but we still have the epipen handy as it's the first thing we learned, just recently found out about vitamin C in the last year though, great stuff.

Also in Ireland, it's illegal to terminate any pregnancy, even if the baby literally has no skull, let alone a brain. Women must deliver to term hideously deformed babies who inevitably die within minutes because they have...no...brain. Or a top of the head, making delivery extremely difficult and prone to life-threatening complications for the mother. Who is usually traumatized for life thereafter.

I'm sorry for this seemingly needless loss, but I'm a little bit more worried about that. No matter what you think about abortion, that's just wrong.

Why she didn't have a pen -- maybe she'd just used one and couldn't get a new scrip yet. They're not multiple use. Or maybe they were forgetful. She should die for that? Of course not. And the pharmacy does have leeway with a minor whose record they have, but do we know this pharmacy was one she had visited before? It's a very hard call to make. I'm glad I wasn't the pharmacist, or the family. I don't see why we can't feel empathy for everyone and leave aside questions of blame. I'm sure the people involved are being hard enough on themselves no matter what.

Kangaruex4Ewe
That is so tragically sad. It's a shame we live in such a litigious society that things like this happen. If they had given her the epipen she may have died anyway and the family could have sued the pharmacy for dispensing medications without authorization.

The family should have had the epipen on them at all times in case something like this happened, but things do happen, people are people and we forget things... especially if we are not expecting to need it for a short period of time.

There are a number of medications I believe should be available OTC and this is just one of them. In a perfect world we would all have money to go to the doctors and get prescriptions, but it is not a perfect world and this is a condition where she should have been able to just buy it without visiting the doctor just to renew the script.

I feel for this family. It's awful any which way you look at it.

edit on 12/23/2013 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)

However, a large epinephrine injection when one is not suffering anaphylaxis can cause heart injury, stroke, and even death--although unlikely in a healthy 14 year old, sure but it is not a medication to be taken lightly and shouldn't just be given out willy-nilly. The question is, if she was in the middle of anaphylaxis, why were they mucking around at the pharmacy instead of on the way to the ER or calling emergency services?

toastyr
reply to post by whitewave

 

What pill? What are you going on about? Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't work, you can buy vitamin C in powder form and drink it in water, doesn't take long and is life saving.

Try it next time you get an asthma attack, better yet go check out the liposomal vitamin C thread and give that a shot, works wonders in prevention too for many ailments.

You seriously are suggesting giving someone in the process of anaphylaxis with potential airway edema and loss of consciousness something by mouth?


Please stop giving medical advice.

ldyserenity

LeatherNLace
If I am having an allergic reaction like this, I'm headed to the hospital, not the pharmacy. I don't know how it works in Ireland, but in the US, a pharmacy could be sued, shutdown and possible jail time for giving out medication without a prescription. It's a sad story, but the ill person should have had wits enough have called 911 or go to the hospital.

by the time a wagon comes or she had been seen in ER she still would have died.

edit on 2013/12/23 by ldyserenity because: fix sentence

But she had plenty of time to go to the pharmacy? Ambulances in the US have epi pens as part of their normal kit and an EMT is qualified to identify the problem and administer. Someone in respiratory distress would shoot straight to the crash room of an ER. Both the ER and the EMT were better alternatives than the druggist.



I'm slightly amused that no one has mentioned that this occurred in a place with socialized medicine. If this happened in the US, I wonder how many posters would be blaming out system.

reply to post by NavyDoc


I thought she was at the pharmacy when the incident happened. And if that's the case what the hell stops the pharmacy from calling 911? Really in my store if I saw someone like having an asthma attack or a allergic reaction I'm calling 911. I hope she sues because they didn't attempt to even call 911.

This would happen the US I thought this was in the US.

But it's good to know we're not alone with our horrendous greedy capitalistic oops oligarchy society

NavyDoc

toastyr
reply to post by whitewave

 

What pill? What are you going on about? Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't work, you can buy vitamin C in powder form and drink it in water, doesn't take long and is life saving.

Try it next time you get an asthma attack, better yet go check out the liposomal vitamin C thread and give that a shot, works wonders in prevention too for many ailments.

You seriously are suggesting giving someone in the process of anaphylaxis with potential airway edema and loss of consciousness something by mouth?


Please stop giving medical advice.

No, not someone who is unconscious or close to it. And before you imply, I wouldn't give it to a dead person either.

Are you seriously suggesting someone not try the vitamin C if that's the only choice? Really?

There is a safe window to administer the vitamin C in many cases, unless they are not prepared, such as the case here.

Wrabbit2000
It's a tragedy but I sure don't blame the pharmacy. Even if they'd given it to her, everything went perfect and she dropped dead 2 days later from something mysterious? Someone could argue the case that something about why the prescription was needed, ignored and dispensed anyway is the cause of the delayed death .... End of career for a Pharmacist and in this country anyway, maybe quite a bit more for legal sanctions.

Heck... We could probably go a long way by passing a law on the federal level and other nations follow suit perhaps? Basically saying that REGARDLESS of profession, training, lack of training or general intelligence...absolutely every human being alive today has 0 liability coverage by the legal system IF....they are acting in distress with someone dying or likely TO die and are acting in good faith to save the life for lack of other help or options available in time.

That should have allowed this girl to be given what she needed ..with 0 fear of losing one's whole livelihood and maybe freedom altogether for an action taken in mercy, not crime.

I blame the greed of people for the rules on everything like this being so strict. What people are MOST afraid of is being sued. Everyone is afraid of being sued.

Give CPR on the street to a little old lady because she is dying and break one of her ribs and she can, and usually will, sue you.

Hell, they sue even when it is their own damn fault, spill hot coffee in your lap while driving? instant millionaire!

Being sued is 99% of why people are afraid to help someone who needs it. Things that happen like this? Definitely the fault of most of humanity, if we hadn't become lawyer happy people would still be helping people who were in desperate need.

reply to post by toastyr

I am very familiar with the proposed benefits of vitamin C as well as the side effects. I've also taken liposomal C and experienced gastrointestinal bleeding from it. ANYTHING taken po (by mouth) is going to work much slower than something injected directly into a vein which only takes the length of one heartbeat to circulate. Never mind that vitamin C is not an approved or recognized treatment for anaphylaxis (or acute asthma).

I'm a big proponent of alternative medicine and am working toward my doctorate as a naturopath but vitamin C for anaphylaxis is just unacceptable. Linus Pauling received a nobel prize for his work regarding vitamin C but later studies have shown that it still takes about 3 days to get over cold symptoms whether you take vitamin C or not. Not to detract from a worthy scientist's achievements, but the whole "Vitamin C cures everything" is just false.

Sorry to derail but I'd hate to think someone in a life-threatening emergency might die as a result of mixing a glass of powdered C and drinking it down during anaphylaxis (or asthma) instead of seeking the appropriate treatment.

You shouldn't need a prescription for things like Epipens and inhalers, these are life saving pharmaceuticals and I am not aware of anyway to misuse or abuse these drugs it's a money making scheme...with us as so much refuse not worth the drugs that could save our lives for what? A freaking dr's pay?? It's retarded.

reply to post by whitewave


I suggested it for the girl as a last option when the system failed and also for others as prevention, if you feel an attack coming on, give it a shot. Stop implying anything else.

I also want to know more about the bleeding, first I've read of it, care to start a new thread on this or send me some info? Thanks.

reply to post by cuckooold


Tragic but let's put the blame were it is deserved with the parents and the girl. The place had a sign reading that the dish contained nuts and a pharmacy by law can not give out medicine without a script.



The reason we see things like this are because people push blame were it does not belong.

ldyserenity
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

This would happen the US I thought this was in the US.

Ah, so emotions and what you think is the truth is better than actual truth. You thought it was the US because you have a preconceived notion, so you thought something that wasn't true. Seeing how it wasn't true, you still justify the notion without any evidence at all--still the continued assumption.

ldyserenity
You shouldn't need a prescription for things like Epipens and inhalers, these are life saving pharmaceuticals and I am not aware of anyway to misuse or abuse these drugs it's a money making scheme...with us as so much refuse not worth the drugs that could save our lives for what? A freaking dr's pay?? It's retarded.

Inhalers can cause cardiac dysrhythmias that can be life threatening in susceptible people, which is why they and their side effects should be monitored by a health professional. Physicians do not get paid by what they do or do not prescribe.

More examples of people who don't have a clue.

NavyDoc

ldyserenity
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

This would happen the US I thought this was in the US.

Ah, so emotions and what you think is the truth is better than actual truth. You thought it was the US because you have a preconceived notion, so you thought something that wasn't true. Seeing how it wasn't true, you still justify the notion without any evidence at all--still the continued assumption.

Still doesn't explain why they didn't contact Emergency Personnel they have that in other countries too don't they?

Still stands they have a finger and a phone to dial. She shouldn't have been out to eat without her epipen though they're always supposed to carry one just because of this. Still it takes only a second to dial 911. or 999.

NavyDoc

ldyserenity
You shouldn't need a prescription for things like Epipens and inhalers, these are life saving pharmaceuticals and I am not aware of anyway to misuse or abuse these drugs it's a money making scheme...with us as so much refuse not worth the drugs that could save our lives for what? A freaking dr's pay?? It's retarded.

Inhalers can cause cardiac dysrhythmias that can be life threatening in susceptible people, which is why they and their side effects should be monitored by a health professional. Physicians do not get paid by what they do or do not prescribe.

More examples of people who don't have a clue.

Not the primatene. But that's a company issue it was too expensive for them to make it without cfc's or whathaveyou. Still more greed, because they don't want to put out the money to make it to the standards when it can save live the only one that causes the issue is albuterol and that's not the same as primatene what about epipens, what's their excuse for needing a script for that?

To get the script you have to go into the doctor's office which is what they get paid for nobody does call ins anymore they always always make you go in to the doctor's just to get a script.

There's only 1 type of people greedier than the Banks and that's the medical profession.