5% of the Population is Gay...Will Gay People ever stop pushing their Agenda?

reply to post by peter vlar


A Santa hat was involved, but I'm not telling you where

reply to post by wulff


I have no reason to call you names. You have your opinion as I do mine. As far as the picture that was removed, after second thought it was a bit inappropriate so I have no hard feelings for ATS to remove it. I jumped the gun a bit and was a little offended by the OP and then he quick responses of people that agreed. I probably should not have responded as I did. I felt the OP generalized all homosexuals into one big agenda pushing bucket and I don't see it that way. I have friends that are gay that I have known for years and never knew they were gay. You have your extremist that like to shout it out to the top of the world, just as with anything, religion, right/left politics, mars rocks, ect... IMHO I feel their should be more tolerance when it comes to human rights. I say this because I'm not religious and I don't see things from that point of view. My view is people should be able to be happy, what ever that may be. I tend to forget that being religious is what makes some people happy and that at times I should be more tolerant myself and keep my big mouth shut. I'm a humble guy and have no problem admitting fault. So for the record my first reply was not the most intelligent and If I offended anyone who saw the picture I posted or by my reply, I most humbly apologize.

reply to post by Malynn


dont forget beiberites and miley cyrus(sorry i greatly dislike seeing here face everytime I go to you tube)

LGBT has become a caricature of itself. The pendulum will swing at some near future point though.

reply to post by whyamIhere

I suppose you saying you have gay friends is supposed to make you not look like a homophob and give your opinion more credibility? You obviously have a problem with someone being gay. You didnt even give any examples. What specifically are you talking about, because I doubt anyone is cramming it down your throat, no pun intended. Do not forget that what gay people are going through is slightly simular to what black people and women back in the day had to go through. Imagine what it would be like for you if you were discriminated on a daily basis for who you are, frightened that you might get verbally abused,harassed, beaten up or possibly killed just because you prefer someone of the same sex. They are not trying to cram anything on you they are just trying to fight for equal rights and if history has taught us anything change does not come silently or without action. The ones who seem like they are pushing their sexuality on people are just trying to stay strong and proud of who they are and what they are fighting for, and that is the same rights that you have without pursecution or fear. Rights that you apparently take for granted.

reply to post by ChesterJohn

your lack of evolved intelligence is stunning. You are a typical un-evolved fascist,self righteous, bible brain washed human, and I use the term "human" with bated breath. Btw you really didnt imply that people are gay because of lack of parenting did you? You would be surprised at how well kids are at being qualified to make decisions about who they really are, especially before they become blindingly set in their ways like your self. People like you never get smarter because you wont allow your self to and thats basically a waste of a brain. God forbid schools teach individuality, then they would grow up to be who they want to be with their own beliefs and morals. That would be horrible especially if they differ from yours. Being gay is not a sin un like the propaganda that you spill.

reply to post by mrhardtruth

Being gay is not a sin un like the propaganda that you spill.

And with that little spurt of insanity I assume you've already dreamed up your own god and written your own bible?

Homosexuality IS sin but, with that being said, the original concept of "sin" isn't what the Catholic Church reinterpreted it to mean. In original Jewish doctrine, if I remember correctly, "sin" meant more "off the mark" than something to be punished in this world and the next. From what I see in these thread entries every time some LGBT group throws a hissy fit or even in the comments to the latest news articles like the one where the new Spanish Cardinal describes homosexuality as a "defect" the vast majority of people still see homosexuality as REALLY off the mark.

mrhardtruth
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

I suppose you saying you have gay friends is supposed to make you not look like a homophob and give your opinion more credibility? You obviously have a problem with someone being gay. You didnt even give any examples. What specifically are you talking about, because I doubt anyone is cramming it down your throat, no pun intended. Do not forget that what gay people are going through is slightly simular to what black people and women back in the day had to go through. Imagine what it would be like for you if you were discriminated on a daily basis for who you are, frightened that you might get verbally abused,harassed, beaten up or possibly killed just because you prefer someone of the same sex. They are not trying to cram anything on you they are just trying to fight for equal rights and if history has taught us anything change does not come silently or without action. The ones who seem like they are pushing their sexuality on people are just trying to stay strong and proud of who they are and what they are fighting for, and that is the same rights that you have without pursecution or fear. Rights that you apparently take for granted.

Part of being a Free American means people can disagree if they choose.

I made it very clear in the thread I was talking about a very few militant gays.

Maybe I found one. Did you join and dig up this old thread just to hurl your insults?

I don't give a rats a$$ who you sleep with...just stop telling me about it.

Science has proven that sex is not purely a reproductive exercise, nor are humans the only species to engage in sexual practices for just fun. There are plenty of animals that masturbate, that have sex with the same gender, and have sex without the express purpose of procreating. All of these details imply that either half the mammals on earth are evil and hedonistic, or reproductive organs are not just "tools" meant to reproduce and shed waste and ONLY those purposes.

Thank you, science, for answering those questions for us.

Ollie769
reply to post by mrhardtruth

 

Homosexuality IS sin

Homosexuality isn't the sin. The sin is sinners (because you are as long as you are a human being, right?) telling everyone else what sin is.

It's also funny, how people like to put words in God's mouth, and think they can read His omnipotent mind.

I bet you oh, almost anything, He is thoroughly disgusted.

reply to post by StarlightNine


Homosexuality isn't the sin. The sin is sinners (because you are as long as you are a human being, right?) telling everyone else what sin is.
Ok, you're just spouting some circuitous ruminations you feel are logical. "The sin is sinners"?? Sin is getting off the beaten path God set out for us and if you want to take an ax to Leviticus 20 and others, like I said, make up your own Bible. Don't give me 'we're no longer under the Law since Yeshua showed up' thing either. As He said, He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it. He didn't tell anyone that came to Him for forgiveness to go out and keep doin' whatever torques your tuna but to strive for what is right in God's eyes, not yours. I have no doubt if a homosexual came up to Him today and asked what he should do to be saved He'd take a Torah scroll and beat him about the head and shoulders and say "Stopit, stopit, STOPIT, STOPIT!". After all He would be the only one that would have the right to handle the Torah that way.

It's also funny, how people like to put words in God's mouth, and think they can read His omnipotent mind.
People do it all the time, don't they?

I bet you oh, almost anything, He is thoroughly disgusted.
No doubt. I'm sure Yeshua said to Himself in pretty danged short order after His ascension - "I KNEW I should have written all that stuff down for those guys!

But, as I've said in other threads on this topic, everyone should have the right to live in America, or anywhere, as they see fit and as long as they aren't hurting anyone else. One should take full responsibility for their actions in their lifetime.

edit on 21-1-2014 by Ollie769 because: (no reason given)

Ollie769
reply to post by StarlightNine

 

Homosexuality isn't the sin. The sin is sinners (because you are as long as you are a human being, right?) telling everyone else what sin is.
Ok, you're just spouting some circuitous ruminations you feel are logical. "The sin is sinners"?? Sin is getting off the beaten path God set out for us and if you want to take an ax to Leviticus 20 and others, like I said, make up your own Bible. Don't give me 'we're no longer under the Law since Yeshua showed up' thing either. As He said, He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it. He didn't tell anyone that came to Him for forgiveness to go out and keep doin' whatever torques your tuna but to strive for what is right in God's eyes, not yours. I have no doubt if a homosexual came up to Him today and asked what he should do to be saved He'd take a Torah scroll and beat him about the head and shoulders and say "Stopit, stopit, STOPIT, STOPIT!". After all He would be the only one that would have the right to handle the Torah that way.

It's also funny, how people like to put words in God's mouth, and think they can read His omnipotent mind.
People do it all the time, don't they?

I bet you oh, almost anything, He is thoroughly disgusted.
No doubt. I'm sure Yeshua said to Himself in pretty danged short order after His ascension - "I KNEW I should have written all that stuff down for those guys!

But, as I've said in other threads on this topic, everyone should have the right to live in America, or anywhere, as they see fit and as long as they aren't hurting anyone else. One should take full responsibility for their actions in their lifetime.

edit on 21-1-2014 by Ollie769 because: (no reason given)

First, please forgive any mistake in the quote marks, as I can't seem to master the blasted process form here yet. :/

Well, I really don't feel as if I was circuitous in my response.
In fact, I basically stated the point immediately: 'Homosexuality isn't the sin. The sin is other sinners trying to force their idea of sin down everyone's throat.' Nothing circuitous there. I don't think?

God set up this beaten path? Or was it man or men, the people who had a stake in keeping the masses under control? God Himself, took ink and scroll and wrote the Old Testament? Did He write the New Testament too? The Alpha and Omega of all life that our minuscule brains could even hope to comprehend, wrote the Bible?


You said:

Don't give me 'we're no longer under the Law since Yeshua showed up' thing either

.


But I didn't say or even imply anything of the sort, Ollie.


You said:

As He said, He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.

Jesus Christ said that. I thought. Not God Himself. So, I am assuming with that statement, that you are of the belief that Jesus Christ was actually God Himself?


Goodness. Knowing both the Torah and the Bible, one could surmise, even if they had to stretch it, that Jesus' nature would have been to counsel at the least of all things, and at the highest of all things, love the homosexual human being as he loved his own mother. As he loved God himself. As this is basically what his entire teachings were about. But then, I blaspheme myself, to even think to put words in such Holy a mouth or mind.


Ollie, how are homosexuals hurting anyone else? Surely, they aren't raping, pillaging, sacking nations, slaughtering innocents everywhere in the name of homosexuality.
Who are they hurting, by loving someone of the same sex?

reply to post by StarlightNine


Don't feel like you're alone on the quotations. Half the things I try to do with the punctuations and such on the replies don't work either. It's easier to copy and paste a whole quote out of the thread and work with it in Word Pad, Word or whatever you have, then paste it all in when you're done. There'll be a few things to do like adding spaces between paragraphs but this works for me. The different colors I sometimes use are easily typed HTML commands that you'll see when you work with ATS' word processing window.

You said -
"Well, I really don't feel as if I was circuitous in my response.

In fact, I basically stated the point immediately: 'Homosexuality isn't the sin. The sin is other sinners trying to force their idea of sin down everyone's throat.' Nothing circuitous there. I don't think?"

Ok, before we get into something here help me understand where you're coming from in that quote above. I, personally, have my issues with the good ol' KJV so I like to go back as far as I can to sources like the Torah and Jewish interpretations of the New Testament. The "Jewish New Testament" translated by David H. Stern is a great one to start with. So if you're somewhat referring to Jesus' (Yeshua is His real name) admonition to pull the plank out of your own eye before you try and remove the speck out of your brother's eye (paraphrased), then, sure, that applies but when it comes to a discussion like this in which homosexuality IS the subject then no one is forcing their ideas down anyone's throat. I'm just quoting scriptures that support the basis for all morality law on this side of the pond. For the record, I'm just as big a sinner as the next ATS participant! But if you want to twist the basis for all our morality out of recognition then ...

"God set up this beaten path? Or was it man or men, the people who had a stake in keeping the masses under control?..."

As far as the earliest writings go, frankly, it's up in the air as to authorship but if you simply want to pick and choose what you believe and rules you want to follow then that option has always been available to you as well.

You said:

Don't give me 'we're no longer under the Law since Yeshua showed up' thing either.

But I didn't say or even imply anything of the sort, Ollie.

Given the thought path you seemed to be following, and I'm still not convinced I wasn't right this first time, I figured that was going to be the next claim you were going to make. I was going to head that one off at the pass before we wasted time on it.

You said:

As He said, He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.

"Jesus Christ said that. I thought. Not God Himself. So, I am assuming with that statement, that you are of the belief that Jesus Christ was actually God Himself?"

So, again, you're choosing who you're going to believe and not? Yes, Yeshua is quoted as saying that. Now you're going to disenfranchise or nullify God's highest messenger He's sent to date?

"...Jesus' nature would have been to counsel at the least of all things, and at the highest of all things, love the homosexual human being as he loved his own mother."

Loving someone doesn't mean allowing them to go down the wrong path without trying, at least TRYING, to set them right if they have a mind to hear you. You seem to be saying (here I go assuming your next move) loving someone is to allow their feelings and emotions to carry them on their path regardless of the end game. How'd I do that time?

"Ollie, how are homosexuals hurting anyone else? Surely, they aren't raping, pillaging, sacking nations, slaughtering innocents everywhere in the name of homosexuality."

Don't recall people doing this in the name of heterosexuality either - for corporate profits, oh yeah, you betcha! So where the heck did that idea come from?

As I said earlier, if you don't want to adhere to the religeous principles of the Bible and just about every outlier gospel they've dug up to date our U.S. law has been reinterpreted to give homosexuals as many freedoms as heterosexuals - in most states. As I said, no one should say they can't live like this if they want to form monogomous unions - and stick to it. But the statistics have shown without question that homosexual men, or more accurately, men having sex with men, ARE a danger to the public health given the number of STDs they pass along while enjoying their "lifestyle". They surpass by far hetero men and even lesbian women in the CDC's stats going back at least 20 years when I first started looking into this.
What irks me more than anything else are churches that are put under duress to perform homosexual marriages. This flies in the face of religeous freedom as it's been interpreted for the past 230 years. A marriage certificate works for the same purpose and no one has to pretend that God condones such a union - when He, in fact, doesn't.

Ollie769
reply to post by StarlightNine

 

Don't feel like you're alone on the quotations. Half the things I try to do with the punctuations and such on the replies don't work either. It's easier to copy and paste a whole quote out of the thread and work with it in Word Pad, Word or whatever you have, then paste it all in when you're done. There'll be a few things to do like adding spaces between paragraphs but this works for me. The different colors I sometimes use are easily typed HTML commands that you'll see when you work with ATS' word processing window.

You said -
"Well, I really don't feel as if I was circuitous in my response.

In fact, I basically stated the point immediately: 'Homosexuality isn't the sin. The sin is other sinners trying to force their idea of sin down everyone's throat.' Nothing circuitous there. I don't think?"

Ok, before we get into something here help me understand where you're coming from in that quote above. I, personally, have my issues with the good ol' KJV so I like to go back as far as I can to sources like the Torah and Jewish interpretations of the New Testament. The "Jewish New Testament" translated by David H. Stern is a great one to start with. So if you're somewhat referring to Jesus' (Yeshua is His real name) admonition to pull the plank out of your own eye before you try and remove the speck out of your brother's eye (paraphrased), then, sure, that applies but when it comes to a discussion like this in which homosexuality IS the subject then no one is forcing their ideas down anyone's throat. I'm just quoting scriptures that support the basis for all morality law on this side of the pond. For the record, I'm just as big a sinner as the next ATS participant! But if you want to twist the basis for all our morality out of recognition then ...

"God set up this beaten path? Or was it man or men, the people who had a stake in keeping the masses under control?..."

As far as the earliest writings go, frankly, it's up in the air as to authorship but if you simply want to pick and choose what you believe and rules you want to follow then that option has always been available to you as well.

You said:

Don't give me 'we're no longer under the Law since Yeshua showed up' thing either.

But I didn't say or even imply anything of the sort, Ollie.

Given the thought path you seemed to be following, and I'm still not convinced I wasn't right this first time, I figured that was going to be the next claim you were going to make. I was going to head that one off at the pass before we wasted time on it.

You said:

As He said, He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.

"Jesus Christ said that. I thought. Not God Himself. So, I am assuming with that statement, that you are of the belief that Jesus Christ was actually God Himself?"

So, again, you're choosing who you're going to believe and not? Yes, Yeshua is quoted as saying that. Now you're going to disenfranchise or nullify God's highest messenger He's sent to date?

"...Jesus' nature would have been to counsel at the least of all things, and at the highest of all things, love the homosexual human being as he loved his own mother."

Loving someone doesn't mean allowing them to go down the wrong path without trying, at least TRYING, to set them right if they have a mind to hear you. You seem to be saying (here I go assuming your next move) loving someone is to allow their feelings and emotions to carry them on their path regardless of the end game. How'd I do that time?

"Ollie, how are homosexuals hurting anyone else? Surely, they aren't raping, pillaging, sacking nations, slaughtering innocents everywhere in the name of homosexuality."

Don't recall people doing this in the name of heterosexuality either - for corporate profits, oh yeah, you betcha! So where the heck did that idea come from?

As I said earlier, if you don't want to adhere to the religeous principles of the Bible and just about every outlier gospel they've dug up to date our U.S. law has been reinterpreted to give homosexuals as many freedoms as heterosexuals - in most states. As I said, no one should say they can't live like this if they want to form monogomous unions - and stick to it. But the statistics have shown without question that homosexual men, or more accurately, men having sex with men, ARE a danger to the public health given the number of STDs they pass along while enjoying their "lifestyle". They surpass by far hetero men and even lesbian women in the CDC's stats going back at least 20 years when I first started looking into this.
What irks me more than anything else are churches that are put under duress to perform homosexual marriages. This flies in the face of religeous freedom as it's been interpreted for the past 230 years. A marriage certificate works for the same purpose and no one has to pretend that God condones such a union - when He, in fact, doesn't.

edit on 21-1-2014 by Ollie769 because: (no reason given)

My time zone is not reflected properly, as I am across oceans from the States. It is the wee hours and I've just noticed your reply.

Ollie, you said:

Don't recall people doing this in the name of heterosexuality either - for corporate profits, oh yeah, you betcha! So where the heck did that idea come from?

No, I don't recall the issue being heterosexuality. But it was done in the name of God. In the name of Religion. In the name of Christianity.

I do not refute at all that the Gay community has been ravaged by, and continues to suffer from a high rate of STD/AIDS cases. The CDC AIDS Surveillance reports, as well as the Supplemental reports, bears this out.
However, when one stops to remember that, as you posit, the gay population is only 5%, who is accountable for the millions of new cases of sexually transmitted diseases each year? Heterosexuals, Ollie.
Also, contrary to popular belief, not all gay male couples have anal sex - which is the riskiest behavior for transmitting AIDS and other diseases. But there are so many heterosexuals who enjoy the practice.
Is it the issue of Male on Male, and anal sex? Or is it the transmittable diseases--that may, not always, but may occur, due to the sexual practices of anal sex that occur with Male on Male?
Or... something else?
Certainly Gay men have become more conscious, more careful than they ever were in the 80's. Believe me, I imagine they themselves, fear catching a disease more than you fear them catching one.

The so called freedom of religion in the last 230 years, as you mention, has not actually been free. People have paid with their lives for not practicing Christianity. Remember the Crusades? *shiver*
So perhaps, the whole idea of Christianity's message, has indeed been twisted so badly, it is not recognizable from its foundation and teachings.
Jesus' teachings and messages were above all things:

Love, tolerance, compassion and forgiveness.
Nothing else was on his agenda but that. And above all - Love.
He did not differentiate between a bird loving a fish, or a man loving a man. Not his original teachings, he didn't.
Whatever man has done to them is something else entirely.

I do understand your irritation at what you can neither agree with nor feel you can abide by. We all have things that crawl under our skin.
But I can't see where you feel they are shoving it in your face. If it does not interest you, allow it to pass you by. Work on your own soul, your own path and journey. Believe me, when we all die, we are all going back to the One Source.
You will be, more than likely, standing in the company of a flaming queen. They will be accepted home. Just as you will. We all came from one place, we will all return to that same place. Don't allow it to affect you in this way. In the end, gaydom is the least of God's worries and thorns.

Did God tell you he doesn't condone Gay Marriage? Or is it the Bible, written by the hand of man, that told you?

I am not mocking you, Ollie. It is a serious inquiry. Because the last time I was aware, no one has seen the face of God, and lived to tell about it. Least of all, been told the infinitely eternal blueprint He created for man.

reply to post by Ollie769

Your pope seems to disagree with his cardinal. Homosexuality is only a sin if you believe what you read written by idiotic superstitious, barbaric, unevolved men 1000's of years ago. You don't believe everything you read from every book only what you choose to believe from a certain book. Don't you have a mind of your own? Can you decipher what morals, ethics and values are truly right and wrong. Hatred and bigotry towards any person isn't justified in any way. Your all loving all knowing God who created men in his own image should have taught you that. I don't need to create a God or a Bible all I need is common sense and a good heart to get through any false misguided judgement. I don't care who agrees with you it proves nothing other than showing that there are many people just has ignorant and prejudice has you. Take your blinders of and see yourself for what you really are a misguided bigot. Was the Mark Twain quote supposed to make you seem smarter. If you knew anything about Mark Twain then you would know he was a big supporter of equal rights. Not just minorities but women has well. I suppose you agree with the way the bible looks upon woman has well, its far from equal. Gay people are going through a similar moral fight for equal rights has black people and woman have had to, but since you like Mark Twain so much then here is a a couple of quotes from a petition he wrote." Your petitioner, having the good of his country solely at heart, humbly prays that “equal rights” & fair & equal treatment may be meted out to all citizens,Then shall all men bless your honorable body & be happy. And for this will your petitioner ever pray."

reply to post by whyamIhere


Once again no one is telling you who their sleeping with, this is a typical homophobic remark made by a typical bigot, like yourself who is trying to sugar coat your hatred of gays by sounding politically correct. Anything you read or hear about gay people that are supposedly shoving it in your face are just trying to gain their equal rights. Something you wouldn't understand because you dont have to go through persecution on a daily basis. If you did I'm sure you would have something to say about it. You proved your true ignorance by saying "maybe I'm talking to one". Im not gay and you dont have to be when it comes to having common sense about this issue.

reply to post by StarlightNine


If there is a God, am Im sure your talking about the one you believe in, not those others, then he was spoken for by man in every bible ever written. These idiotic views such has hating gays is clearly something written by men not a all powerful all loving all knowing God. Btw D.H. Lawrence? You really need to do your research before you use quotes from people. Do your research and you'll find out that D.H. Lawrence had homosexual encounters, one in particular while writing Women In LOve. Here are some of my favorite quotes from him since your such a big fan."God is only a great imaginative experience." "Ethics and equity and the principles of justice do not change with the calendar.""A man has no religion who has not slowly and painfully gathered one together, adding to it, shaping it; and one's religion is never complete and final, it seems, but must always be undergoing modification."

mrhardtruth
reply to post by StarlightNine

 

Btw D.H. Lawrence? You really need to do your research before you use quotes from people. Do your research and you'll find out that D.H. Lawrence had homosexual encounters, one in particular while writing Women In LOve.

Why do I need to do research? I know exactly who D.H. Lawrence was.

Have you somehow mistaken anything at all that I uttered here in this thread, as having in any way agreed with the Original Poster?
If so, please do read every line I have written here, to clear up any misunderstanding I feel you have regarding all I have said here tonight.

?

Sin is only a "Sin" if you believe in the Dogma that claims it as such, and since Religion is a selected "Belief" it is not always 100% correct because not everyone might believe the same, that is why you cannot base Laws off of religious dogma because you can't force "Belief"

You select the religion or lack of it, you don't select your sex, like you don't select your gender or your race

every time someone says i am an abomination, or i am the sin, or we don't hate the sinner we hate the "Sin" of homosexuality, is that not shoving religion in my face?

RadarOReilly
LGBT has become a caricature of itself. The pendulum will swing at some near future point though.

I don't agree with the caricature, they are really defending themselves. But against what?

Problem with trying to belittle them or the movement is that it's a movement just like anybody else's who wants something. Ok, they want anuses but it might as well be religious freedom. They are at the root fake (as opposed to life and having babies, male/female; which is real) but can pretend, mimic and express that feeling of righteousness so well it passes many checks in the mind of the listener and he or she might let it go and shrug. Point being you belittle a movement which even though the cause may not be right and they shouldn't be winning anything, they use the same thing everyone else uses to convince and this is detremental to your own power to convince because it's the same thing regardless the use or user. Ofcourse, the homosexual cause always loses because of the wrong premise but once sucked into that battle over who is right about any subject it's easy to forget.

Love is a complicated thing even though it doesn't have to be but it can be both. Anyone who believes in male-female love and nothing else should never (believe) they lose to any LGBT since standard always wins by default (so in essence there is no competition, except for those who start it). The pendulum has always been on the standard road. To begin to believe it is somewhere different is to enter the domain of that which makes everything gay or gay-straight.

The pendulum always swings at the 'standard' road, it's nature and not something which any man or woman can change but only imagine about. Then everybody agrees the pendulum is on the 'shared' road but really it's not there. Which is similar to trying to tell a homosexual whatever they call love isn't really the same as male-female love, that is the love-love kind and it can't really be there either since the love-love is a mechanism for creating babies, which male-male or female-female can never do.

Normally, people who do it wrong should feel bad and this affects change. Or rather, feel less good about themselves. But because people may not express negative rejections about homosexuality there is nothing stopping it. It's an upside down world where those who do it wrong get pampered while those speaking out against are being harassed and put on the 'bad' side of life.