5% of the Population is Gay...Will Gay People ever stop pushing their Agenda?

reply to post by spiritspeak

I think it's wrong for LGBT's to leech off other people's battles by comparing them as if it were the same. Having a darker skin has nothing to do with wanting to # someone in the ass. The same goes for women's rights, a woman does a job and gets less pay for it than a male that's just unfair.

So sexual inequality and racial inequality is not the same as marital inequality? Purely because you're sympathetic to the first two but not the third, based on your personal preferences? That's still bigotry.

There is the right way of doing it and there is everything else, the former produces life and the latter does not. So anyone claiming the latter is true must be corrected of this, without ofcourse abuse. It must be recognized as untrue, not as something which can possibly come true. Right now no one may correct this, as in say anything negative about it without getting public opinion against them.

I didn't know sex was exclusively a procreative activity. If you claim that you engage in sexual intercourse with the express purpose of creating a child, then I'm calling you a liar.

To change the hearts and minds of people regarding the subject. It does not add to life and those supporting that are not on the side of adding to life. How will this look in a decade or 2, because it's only since the seventies psychiatry lost the battle. In a few generations, children will grow up thinking it's normal, so doing it wrong would become normal and nobody would view it as wrong, nobody there to say anything about it.

Doing it wrong if you are attempting to have a child. Again, see my above response. Not everyone treats sex like its a job.

spiritspeak

HerMisfits
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

Aside from pride and openess, I think it comes down to mainly political groups that support gay communities to further their agendas.

It is a bit overdone at times, but we are approaching that time now where people are learning to accept different sexual orientations, I think good for them, people need to become familiar with the gay community and I dont think this will end until we learn to accept them. If they're still feeling the need to express their orientation then it might be because there is still awareness needed.

I don't like hearing about it when there is an election. And as far as were I live that IS the only time I hear about it

Some people will never accept homosexuality, like myself, because it conflicts in my mind with the truth. But I am one of those that chooses to emigrate to a country with different laws and hope there'll never be a homosexual president of the US or any other LGBT country who would want to attack those countries and enfore their ways upon them. I'd never physically attack anyone nor would I want to mentally be abusive, regardless of orientation. So that leaves me with emigration plans, not blaming the gay community but the first who started doing it wrong, a ghost of the past, people can't help falling for the same lie and each generation it's passed on, wouldn't ever want to go against them since it's pretty much useless and a waste of time.

edit on 22-1-2014 by spiritspeak because: (no reason given)

what truth would that be?

whyamIhere

mrhardtruth
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

Part of being a Free American means people can disagree if they choose.

I made it very clear in the thread I was talking about a very few militant gays.

Maybe I found one. Did you join and dig up this old thread just to hurl your insults?

I don't give a rats a$$ who you sleep with...just stop telling me about it.

Spoken like someone who has never known what it is like to be discriminated against. It is not about sexual orientation, it is about whole lives.

Who you marry and love matters to you, doesn't it?

So it does to many others.

Every facet of American life is depicting healthy, white heterosexual couples. You have no clue what it is like to be marginalized, and neither does anyone else who is healthy, white, and heterosexual. Because you don't have every commercial, movie, superhero, telling you that you are different and don't belong to the norm.

AfterInfinity
So sexual inequality and racial inequality is not the same as marital inequality? Purely because you're sympathetic to the first two but not the third, based on your personal preferences? That's still bigotry.

Can't believe you since you're doing it wrong but you claim it's right. I know I'm not a bigot, even though I disagree with the subject of homosexuality. I thought there might be something to a discussion just so we all understand eachothers perspectives and can leave eachother in peace.

Otherwise I'm not going to let myself get lured into a discussion about skin color, it's irrelevant to the homosexual discussion as are female rights. I also can't respond to the other subjects you raise since we're not talking about the same thing here and you accusing me of bigotry.

nixie_nox
what truth would that be?

The things I believe in ofcourse which I don't feel is necessary for me to post here. And of which I don't demand anyone else to believe or accept. ATS rules say a post must contain at least two lines.

reply to post by spiritspeak

Can't believe you since you're doing it wrong but you claim it's right.

Once again - I'm only doing it wrong if I want a baby to come out of it. If all I'm doing is expressing my love for a fellow human being, then I'm doing it right.

I know I'm not a bigot, even though I disagree with the subject of homosexuality. I thought there might be something to a discussion just so we all understand eachothers perspectives and can leave eachother in peace.

You don't want to understand. That's what I'm getting out of you. You're just looking to have your opinions confirmed. Otherwise, you'll be forced to change you feelings and perhaps even be alright with the idea of homosexuality. You've already stated that it's wrong and you have no intention of changing your mind. What else is there to be said?

Otherwise I'm not going to let myself get lured into a discussion about skin color, it's irrelevant to the homosexual discussion as are female rights. I also can't respond to the other subjects you raise since we're not talking about the same thing here and you accusing me of bigotry.

You say they are irrelevant to one another. If that were the case, "sexual orientation" would not be grounds for a lawsuit in the same manner that racism and sexism are also grounds for lawsuits. In other words, it's discrimination. You are discriminant and you are a bigot. I'm not saying that to be mean, it's a fact. You are bigoted towards homosexuals because you believe your methods of expressing affection and attraction and love are superior to theirs based on nothing more than personal preference and a slim grasp of biology.

That's not something I can ever respect.

spiritspeak
Can't believe you since you're doing it wrong but you claim it's right.

could you refer me to the manual so I can check and see if I'm doing it right? After a quarter century of sexual activity I'd be terribly embarrassed to find out I've been doing it wrong all this time and I think my wife will be disappointed since she seems quite pleased with the effort I put into it.

I know I'm not a bigot, even though I disagree with the subject of homosexuality.

Switch Homosexual out for Jew and I could be reading an excerpt from the Wannsee Conference.

I thought there might be something to a discussion just so we all understand eachothers perspectives and can leave eachother in peace.

Don't you mean you had hoped some other homophobes would join in, hold hands with you and sing Kumbayaa while spouting platitudes regarding the abhorrent nature of homosexuals? Your own rhetoric precludes this as a possible truth. You can't say out the left side of your mouth that you wanted to understand someone else and out the r9ight simultaneously state that they're "doing it wrong". I see 2 possible conclusions here. 1 uhave never had an orgasm with another human being or 2. you were locked up once and provided them for a cell mate and are embarrassed about how much you enjoyed it.

Otherwise I'm not going to let myself get lured into a discussion about skin color, it's irrelevant to the homosexual discussion as are female rights. I also can't respond to the other subjects you raise since we're not talking about the same thing here and you accusing me of bigotry.

this again disproves your above statement that you had hoped for a discussion whereby understanding others views. you cant understand others views without perspective and without putting your own views on display. otherwise its not a dialogue or a discussion, its simply you pontificating about how everyone that doesn't do it your way is doing it wrong. I haven't encountered that level is rational disparity since 7th grade.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by spiritspeak
In other words, it's discrimination. You are discriminant and you are a bigot.

What are you accusing me of? I don't discriminate, I don't look at someone's sexual position at all in daily life, it's something I really don't want to know. It's only here I wanted to talk about it to better understand people in general. I judge something someone says and if I disagree I have every right, we can all disagree with eachother. But I'll never voice my opinion ever again if I risk a lawsuit about it, not something I would want.

I'm not saying that to be mean, it's a fact. You are bigoted towards homosexuals because you believe your methods of expressing affection and attraction and love are superior to theirs based on nothing more than personal preference and a slim grasp of biology.

Not superior or inferior, they are incomparable, I didn't post that anywhere and I distance myself from whatever you claim are my thoughts. I can't know that and neither can anyone else since love is something individual. It's not something one can take out of someone, weigh it and put it back. But I do believe it must be a different kind of love, simply because male and female are different and it's about male/male so there's a difference, they are not comparable in my view, by deduction not experience. You can compare them all you want but I can't take that as a serious argument, ever.

So sorry but I'll never change my opinion and I don't want to discuss the subject ever again if it means being called all kinds of horrible things.

peter vlar
Switch Homosexual out for Jew and I could be reading an excerpt from the Wannsee Conference.

Hey man, have fun with your life, I can't discuss this it appears. Let's all agree to disagree?

Darth_Prime
But religion only works for "You" and those that believe in it, not me or others that don't. that is why Religion is a personal choice that can't be a "Rule" or a "Law"

i've encountered the "Find god and he can save your soul" "God can make you straight" "pray away the gay" etc, but that is their belief, not mine. no matter how much someone preaches to someone it wont do a thing unless said person believes the same.


there is no one "Experience" in life, be it Gay straight, black or white.

Testify.

spiritspeak

peter vlar
Switch Homosexual out for Jew and I could be reading an excerpt from the Wannsee Conference.

Hey man, have fun with your life, I can't discuss this it appears. Let's all agree to disagree?

Thanks, I always have and will Continue to do so. Though I'm fairly certain you simply refuse to address the subject and its not an inherent inability to do so. I learned long ago that if someone lacks the courage to stand behind their convictions that their co fictions have no ground to stand on. I'm not sure why you would interject yourself and the comments you did with no interest in backing up that position or statement. It seems a little disingenuous to me.

whyamIhere
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

at the same time, we can't get punished for those that try to take advantage of the situations, we can't get grouped into the same category just because we are Gay

I can respect anyone who stands up for their Rights.

As long as it doesn't infringe on mine.

I guess I'm not understanding how either Gay rights in general or even the "Gay Agenda" is infringing upon your rights?
Unless I missed it somewhere in the fray, I still don't know how it is adversely affecting you? :/

reply to post by spiritspeak

What are you accusing me of? I don't discriminate, I don't look at someone's sexual position at all in daily life, it's something I really don't want to know. It's only here I wanted to talk about it to better understand people in general. I judge something someone says and if I disagree I have every right, we can all disagree with eachother. But I'll never voice my opinion ever again if I risk a lawsuit about it, not something I would want.

I'm not accusing you of anything. I am making a clear and simple observation that your opinions classify you as a bigot. You are stating that the sexuality of certain couples is grounds on which to deny them certain legal luxuries which have been afforded to other couples. Why? Because of your religion, your philosophy, your political affiliation, whatever. All the excuses I have heard are complete and utter malarky, and this whole "gay agenda" thing is ridiculous as well. I have never met a homosexual who wanted anything more than the right to not be ashamed of who they are.

Not superior or inferior, they are incomparable, I didn't post that anywhere and I distance myself from whatever you claim are my thoughts. I can't know that and neither can anyone else since love is something individual. It's not something one can take out of someone, weigh it and put it back. But I do believe it must be a different kind of love, simply because male and female are different and it's about male/male so there's a difference, they are not comparable in my view, by deduction not experience. You can compare them all you want but I can't take that as a serious argument, ever.

"You're doing it wrong" is a statement of superiority. My way is right, and therefore better. That's the logic I'm seeing you use here.

So sorry but I'll never change my opinion and I don't want to discuss the subject ever again if it means being called all kinds of horrible things.

I'm not telling you not to have an opinion. I would, however, advise that should you choose to make your opinion known in the future, you might wish to be better prepared to defend that opinion.

Ollie769
reply to post by StarlightNine

 

Hi Starlightnine -

Sorry it's taken so long to reply. I've had a grandkid underfoot all day which isn't conducive to writing.

It is the wee hours and I've just noticed your reply.

Please don't think you have to loose sleep over a reply to me. I'd wait a week for an intelligent reply without any problems!

"However, when one stops to remember that, as you posit, the gay population is only 5%, who is accountable for the millions of new cases of sexually transmitted diseases each year? Heterosexuals, Ollie."

No, it t'wern't me that posited that but the OP. As far as hetero's passing on the vast majority of STDs I beg to differ with you. The chart at the CDC website here is pretty much the same as was when I looked it up back in the early 2000s. Nothing changed, really, and I doubt it's changed since 2011.

I've tried everything I can think of to pull the chart from page 2 of that .pdf file and post it as a picture here on ATS but nothing's working so far.

The fact that the CDC uses the characterization of "MSM" may be some sort of nod to political correctness but it shows graphically and without question that male homosexual sexual encounters are responsible for, what, 80% or more of the Syphillis infections? It also describes how 40% of those infections are already infected with HIV which is still probably higher than both hetero men and women. However it occurs it doesn't matter, it's the fluid transfer that transmits the infectious agents, not simply "anal sex". Simple kissing can do it just as well. It also speaks volumes as to why male homosexuality is a danger to society at large vs. lesbians that don't, by and large, have such promiscuous lifestyles. This is why the monogamous hetero- union was promoted as the safest and most efficient means of guaranteeing future progeny from the earliest times.

"Certainly Gay men have become more conscious, more careful than they ever were in the 80's. Believe me, I imagine they themselves, fear catching a disease more than you fear them catching one."

From your lips to God's ears but the facts state otherwise. I don't know about you but I've seen a number of news articles bemoaning the increase in "barebacking" and the spread of the HIV/AIDS virus over time.

"So perhaps, the whole idea of Christianity's message, has indeed been twisted so badly, it is not recognizable from its foundation and teachings. Jesus' teachings and messages were above all things:

Love, tolerance, compassion and forgiveness.
Nothing else was on his agenda but that. And above all - Love.
He did not differentiate between a bird loving a fish, or a man loving a man. Not his original teachings, he didn't.
Whatever man has done to them is something else entirely."

Love, yes, but "tolerance"? Even Christ had His limitations on that. He never sent someone off without saying "clean up your act"! Many (the rich man was used as only an example of the many encounters like this Yeshua had) left without doing so because they didn't have the desire. That's when the verse "with Christ all things are possible" comes into play. But if you DON'T want change or you've fallen for the propaganda line that says "this is the way I was born and this is all I can be" then that IS all you ever will be. No good change ever happens without some pain involved but pain is something this generation of humans tries to avoid at all costs.

This is the thing that the homosexual agenda has INSISTED on from the beginning - complete and total acceptance (read: surrender) to the lifestyle by Christians of all stripes. No criticism is allowed in any way, shape or form. As I mentioned before this isn't what is meant by "love". If something is wrong then it stays wrong; but, again, you are free to continue on whatever path you choose. The only people we know of that Christ got "physical" with were the money changers. Everyone else He sent away either changed or not. It was up to them.

I was reading through 1st Corinthians last night again in the Jewish New Testament. Paul was saying that, among many others, homosexuals should not be included in their worship and other services. Whether you're an agnostic or outright atheist if you aren't going to believe anything until you see Yeshua coming down from the Heavens like He left into them then all of this conversation is, of course, moot. Paul's words were, thankfully, a distinct change from the teachings of the Law in Leviticus which would have had homosexuals found in the midst of the early Israelites killed outright. Perhaps it was due to the fact the group he was writing to was outside of Israel or perhaps he took it upon himself to lighten up on that group and class of sin so that they would then have a path to salvation as he understood it then.

There's tons more that could be written but that makes for extra long posts so I'll look forward to hearing from you.

edit on 22-1-2014 by Ollie769 because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-1-2014 by Ollie769 because: (no reason given)

Ollie, I do understand the statistics, and don't argue them. But heterosexuals are not only quite promiscuous themselves, but also have high incidences of STD. Promiscuity is hardly exclusive to homosexual people. You at least recognize this. The game has changed since the 80's. People are aware now of how certain diseases are spread, how to prevent them, and also practices have changed. I am not deflating numbers here in the least, simply pointing out a real fact. The monogamous hetero union was promoted first by the church, before Christ. And still to this day, the church is influencing the "correctness" of human union. I don't find it comforting, as I refuse to allow any man's decrees define my soul's love. You know?


Yes, Ollie. He was tolerant. So tolerant, he was hated for it. They feared him. They could never understand it. He could feel anger, from what we are told. But his anger was not directed at those with a pure heart, but those who did not practice love, compassion, and tolerance. It is plainly clear in the scriptures.
One cannot change certain aspects of themselves to be acceptable to the masses. If this were so, and if Christ was not who he was, he would have been able to conform himself, to the dictates of those who persecuted him.

The goal of complete and total acceptance by any LGBT person, is not that you condone, agree with, or even like that they choose to love the same sex. It is that you recognize them as a complete, whole, healthy, normal, positive and productive member of the human race.

No different. No less. Without labels, condemnation or scapegoating.

You said:

I was reading through 1st Corinthians last night again in the Jewish New Testament. Paul was saying that, among many others, homosexuals should not be included in their worship and other services.

Yes. Paul, said that. Not Christ.
If any man were to attempt to put words in the mouth of Christ, I would say that they are believing in a false religion. I would like to see one direct thing Christ wrote in the Bible.
Not what a third party is saying he said. But the direct words of Christ himself.
You won't find them. Because the Bible isn't written by God or Christ, but people with an agenda that deviated from the original teaching of Christ.

the way a persons perception of a person can change just by hearing "Gay".

had you not known i was Gay, or a Drag Queen, i would have been "Just another Guy" on the internet, you may have been more inclined to agree with my views, you may find yourself finding commonalities. but as soon as "Gay" is introduced the perception has been altered.

Stereotypes get thrown out, "Lifestyle Choices" get tossed around "Human" is no longer part of it, it becomes the "Gay Agenda" it becomes "Whining about attention and rights"

Darth_Prime
the way a persons perception of a person can change just by hearing "Gay".

had you not known i was Gay, or a Drag Queen, i would have been "Just another Guy" on the internet, you may have been more inclined to agree with my views, you may find yourself finding commonalities. but as soon as "Gay" is introduced the perception has been altered.

Stereotypes get thrown out, "Lifestyle Choices" get tossed around "Human" is no longer part of it, it becomes the "Gay Agenda" it becomes "Whining about attention and rights"

I will totally agree with that statement. I have seen it countless times. As if, all of a sudden someone isn't who they were just seconds before. Sad really, and a bit shameful.

reply to post by StarlightNine


Yaaas gurl!

it's the one thing i don't get about the "Gay Sports Players" people act as if as soon as they "Come Out" their talents, Athletic ability and skill set will diminish

Darth_Prime
reply to post by StarlightNine

 

Yaaas gurl!

it's the one thing i don't get about the "Gay Sports Players" people act as if as soon as they "Come Out" their talents, Athletic ability and skill set will diminish

Well... one must be part of the herd, musn't one? Lest any real effort is expended to enlighten one's mind.
Nope. Just too much work for some. Much easier to follow everyone off the cliff. At least, they aren't alone.

AfterInfinity
I'm not telling you not to have an opinion. I would, however, advise that should you choose to make your opinion known in the future, you might wish to be better prepared to defend that opinion.

Yeah you're right about that I'll never speak about the subject again since you say I need to defend myself but there's no threat, contest or anything. Why some people don't understand that is beyond me. I can understand nobody wants to get abused, nobody should. But I would like to see an attitude change in LGBT activists. Defending what is default just can't happen, so sorry - I really wish LGBT activists came to understand this I really do.

reply to post by spiritspeak


what do you mean "Defending what is default"?

out of curiosity