Khufu Cartouche in GP Dated - Centuries Old

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Wow thats not true they have indeed found mummies in pyramids the problem is that tomb robers would all ways desecrate the mummy because they knew alot of valuables were in the wrappings. Then there were reburials which occured after priests discovered the break ins. There called royal mummy caches the most famous being the tomb of Amenhotep II. Over 40 pharaohs were recovered from this one site alone. The problem with pyramids is there just begging to be robbed might as well put up a huge sign oh wait they did. And people dont realize even king Tut was robbed in fact the thieves bungled the job meaning they may have been caught. But here you go heres an example that you claim never happened.And by the way even in the great pyramid you can see evidence of robbers entering the tomb.

Queen's Mummy Found In 4,300-Year-Old Pyramid

news.nationalgeographic.com...


This is a list made by the visor of Ramesses IX after it was discovered his father's tomb had been broken in to. He was i guess mad because he immediately wanted a list of tombs that were robbed.This was recorded on a papyrus by the way shoots a big hole in your theory of no mummies. Really guys egyptologists dont just make stuff up they have to show proof for any theories they might have and it involves research and alot of digging.

“The pyramids, graves and tombs examined this day by the inspectors: the tomb of King Amenhotep I – which the Mayor of Thebes Paser had reported to the...commissioners...saying 'The thieves had violated it'. Examined this day; it was found intact.
The pyramid tomb of King Inyotef VI – it was found intact.
The pyramid tomb of King Inyotef VII: the thieves had not succeeded in penetrating it.
The pyramid tomb of King Inyotef VI: the thieves had not succeeded in penetrating it.
The pyramid tomb of Sebekemsaf II: the burial chamber was found empty of its lord, likewise the chamber of the great royal wife...the thieves had laid their hands upon them -
The pyramid tomb of King Sekhenenre I: - it was found intact.
The pyramid tomb of King Sekhenenre II: it was found intact.
The pyramid tomb of king Kamose: it was found intact.
The pyramid tomb of Prince Ahmose: - it was found intact.
The pyramid tomb of Montuhotep: - it was found intact.
Total pyramid tombs of the kings of old examined this day and found to be intact, nine pyramid tombs; found to have been violated, one tomb, total ten.”

dragonridr
reply to post by Scott Creighton

 

Wow thats not true they have indeed found mummies in pyramids

SC: Please do read what I actually wrote:

"...I do not think anyone disputes that fragments of human remains have been found in some of the pyramids. But what you omit to inform readers is that most of these have been identified as clear intrusive burials from later periods or that the provenance of the fragments is otherwise unknown or ambiguous...."

In the link you offered from antional Geographic, it presents what Egyptologists BELIEVE to be the tomb of Seshseshet. From the article:

"Parts of a mummy found inside a 4,300-year-old pyramid could be Queen Seshseshet, the mother of the first pharaoh of Egypt's 6th dynasty, archaeologists have announced. ..."

And

"We believe the [newfound] pyramid belonged to the queen, the mother of Teti, because she is the third woman that we know in the life of the king," Hawass said.

SC: So it COULD be a queen--or it could be someone else. Egyptologists are not certain of the provenance of these mummy fragments. They are guessing--an educated guess perhaps but a guess nevertheless.

So my point stands.

Over and above which, if you actually take some time to read through my work here on ATS, you will find that I have no great objection to these small, inferior pyramids from later periods having been built as tombs--just not the early, giant pyramids of the 3rd and 4th dynasty. The evidence there suggests a completely different function; a function that would later, as the AE religion developed, INSPIRE the use of the pyramid for the burial of Kings (and some queens). The original purpose/function of the first pyramids was to ensure the recovery/rebirth of the Kingdom as opposed to the recovery/rebirth of the king.


Regards,

SC

Scott Creighton

dragonridr
reply to post by Scott Creighton

 

Wow thats not true they have indeed found mummies in pyramids

SC: Please do read what I actually wrote:

"...I do not think anyone disputes that fragments of human remains have been found in some of the pyramids. But what you omit to inform readers is that most of these have been identified as clear intrusive burials from later periods or that the provenance of the fragments is otherwise unknown or ambiguous...."

In the link you offered from antional Geographic, it presents what Egyptologists BELIEVE to be the tomb of Seshseshet. From the article:

"Parts of a mummy found inside a 4,300-year-old pyramid could be Queen Seshseshet, the mother of the first pharaoh of Egypt's 6th dynasty, archaeologists have announced. ..."

And

"We believe the [newfound] pyramid belonged to the queen, the mother of Teti, because she is the third woman that we know in the life of the king," Hawass said.

SC: So it COULD be a queen--or it could be someone else. Egyptologists are not certain of the provenance of these mummy fragments. They are guessing--an educated guess perhaps but a guess nevertheless.

So my point stands.

Over and above which, if you actually take some time to read through my work here on ATS, you will find that I have no great objection to these small, inferior pyramids from later periods having been built as tombs--just not the early, giant pyramids of the 3rd and 4th dynasty. The evidence there suggests a completely different function; a function that would later, as the AE religion developed, INSPIRE the use of the pyramid for the burial of Kings (and some queens). The original purpose/function of the first pyramids was to ensure the recovery/rebirth of the Kingdom as opposed to the recovery/rebirth of the king.


Regards,

SC

edit on 6/12/2013 by Scott Creighton because: (no reason given)

No it doesnt you totally ignored the information on the papyrus buts thats ok i learned along time ago that people believe something its very difficult for them to change. You have a set belief and no amount of evidence will change your mind and well quite frankly thats your choice. I will however correct any information to hopefully prevent people who havnt looked in to egyptian culture from believing only miss information. As far is the earlier pyramids you are aware that giza was not the original site for the pyramids? The earliest pyramids were located in Saqqara the reason the move by Khufu is he relocated the capital of egypt. And your copy theory is funny since if you took the time to study the pyramids you would know there was a progression as they learned they would incorporate more and more. But you can see the similarities in even small details like how they designed corridors to be blocked.and of course the funerary temples attached to the pyramids as well. And then theres Khafre's pyramid you ignored buily after and in many ways better craftsmanship but it was 3 ft shorter the Kufus but this is where the spinx enclosure was built.

@Scott, I may go OT for a min. but bear with me sir.

I had a History teacher in High School, that at the begining of the first Semestar stated, "Ladies and Gentlemen, I am here to teach you history. I will teach you what is written down and then I will go further and teach you how everything "actually happened". The winners wrote the History books". This may have been the benchmark that spiraled me further down the "rabbit hole" but I digress and will go back on topic.

I find it most audacious for anyone to hold to hardlined facts, where if anyone has learned anything about History and especially Ancient (Pick a civilization) History that actual Facts and Authenticity of Events and Dates are smeared more than the frosting of a 3 tier (pick a flavor) cake.

This is not to say that I believe everything I read and hear, but we all have our own deductions and logic that is used when reading anything, especially on ATS.

Scott, I did some research on you, as I was wondering who the hell is Scott Creighton and "Why" preytell does he have his own FORUM!!! I love a good read, especially on topics such as this, I normally don't join in, as the banter is normally better than "A night at the Apollo". That said, thank you for the extensive research you have been submersing yourself in, regarding the Ancient Egyptians.

It's refreshing to hear alternative theories, that are grounded and don't go so far out the box, that there's no way "to betsy" that its in the realm of possibility.

Authentic's have been forged, History has been proven wrong, up to and not excluding documenting what they want us to believe, Sheister's existed in all times that would and could do these things.

With that, I look forward to taking some more reading time on this subject with you.

Best regards,

reply to post by sulaw


Since i was on here figured id answer the question you were asking he wrote a book called called the Giza prophecy this is the main reason i know hes not going to change his mind.He believes the pyramids or older based off the alignment of orions belt. read the book and its not a bad theory however a large part of the alignment of the pyramids was due to the hills all ready there alot of people dont realize the pyramids were built over existing hills. Did they scout the hills finding 2 in the area they wanted who knows. However to try to date the pyramids by constellation alignment is to say the least kind of out there.

reply to post by dragonridr


I agree, I haven't cracked the book yet but from your short summary, how couldn't you agree.

I enjoy alternative theories, is all. It's fascinating, we as our current civilization stands only have the artifacts that have made it through the years, centuries and decades from these past civilizations.

Is carbon dating "absolute", does any of our current science leave "holes" for error? Has science been proven wrong? I'm sure you know dragon that the world we live in is much stranger and illogical than what's written on paper/papyrus. To the extent of "If I had a time machine, Ohhhhh the fun I could have, verifying so many of these oddities"...

I'm no expert, but at times I sound like the child who keeps asking "why, why, why~uhmmmm ok, why, why" until there are no more answers for the "why" but the "why" still stands and no more answers to follow. It's perplexing...

I kinda just, jabered on... My apologies... It's interesting, it'll be more interesting to see where he goes with his theory and if "any" substantial, validating evidence will be procured from it.

It takes a small flicker of light to spark the storm that will rain down and break the fog that stands before us.... Or a new discovery that will shatter that which we "knew" and replace it with an even odder enigma....

Meh~ I hope you have a great weekend Dragon.

Best regards,

...about the 'boats' and the 'papyrus' -

The boats had nothing to do with the actual build process
of the G.P. of G.
The boats were buried as an eternal life offering by the Pharoah's
who worshipped the feat of architecture.

The papyrus in question is not a re-counting of the pyramid building,
but an account of the "fixing-rebuilding" process it undertook
to restore it to it's former glory as ordered by the founding Pharoah.

H.Z. and his accompliss's would never admit this as it would prove
that the AE we know did not build said monuments forever losing credibility,
status, funding - and possibly diminishing the cherished tourism industry!

Not to derail, but I ask this question once again...

HumAnnunaki
How would finding the blueprints impact our present day history..?

HumAnnunaki
...about the 'boats' and the 'papyrus' -

The boats had nothing to do with the actual build process
of the G.P. of G.
The boats were buried as an eternal life offering by the Pharoah's
who worshipped the feat of architecture.

Of course it had nothing to do with the build process they are buried when the pharaoh dies for use in the afterlife.what it does prove is like the other pyramids there were funerary offerings.

The papyrus in question is not a re-counting of the pyramid building,
but an account of the "fixing-rebuilding" process it undertook
to restore it to it's former glory as ordered by the founding Pharoah.

H.Z. and his accompliss's would never admit this as it would prove
that the AE we know did not build said monuments forever losing credibility,
status, funding - and possibly diminishing the cherished tourism industry!

So you know more then the man who discovered the papyrus and has spent his life studying egypt. And on top of that the whole part about helping to build the pyramid for khufu was just his imagination this man who was a supervisor over hundreds of men was just mistaken? Do you have a time machine or something id love to see any proof you have to show us they were all ready there contrary to evidence.

Not to derail, but I ask this question once again...

HumAnnunaki
How would finding the blueprints impact our present day history..?

None really much difference though it appears they actually made models of the pyramids and use those for construction and not blue prints.

dragonridr
So you know more then the man who discovered the papyrus and has spent his life studying egypt. And on top of that the whole part about helping to build the pyramid for khufu was just his imagination this man who was a supervisor over hundreds of men was just mistaken? Do you have a time machine or something id love to see any proof you have to show us they were all ready there contrary to evidence.

I would have to answer truthfully to all your above questions as - YES.

Now the pyramid blueprints - suppose they were found in a western part of the planet
and written in a language we know very little of..?
Would that not change everything we have been 'supplied' as true knowledge?
Would it not re-write all history books?
..as it will show an intelligence we are not yet capable of!

reply to post by dragonridr


Hi Dragonridr,

D: No it doesnt …

SC: Really? Why not?

D: …you totally ignored the information on the papyrus …

SC: The papyrus does not state Khufu built the pyramid. It tells us that a particular individual quarried limestone for a pyramid at Giza. Khufu’s name is certainly mentioned on the papyrus but much is missing. Might Khafre’s name or Menkaure’s name also have been there at some point? What pyramid was being worked on at Giza? The papyrus, as you should know, does not say—it is merely an assumption that he was quarrying blocks for the Great Pyramid. There are 11 pyramids at Giza. And was this rock quarried for a new pyramid or for restoration work? The papyrus does not say. There is much evidence of restoration work at Giza and at other pyramid sites.

D:… buts thats ok i learned along time ago that people believe something its very difficult for them to change. You have a set belief and no amount of evidence will change your mind and well quite frankly thats your choice.

SC: Ditto.

D: I will however correct any information to hopefully prevent people who havnt looked in to egyptian culture from believing only miss information.

SC: Ditto.

D: As far is the earlier pyramids you are aware that giza was not the original site for the pyramids? The earliest pyramids were located in Saqqara the reason the move by Khufu is he relocated the capital of egypt.

SC: And your point is?

D: And your copy theory is funny …

SC: My “copy theory”? I don’t have a “copy theory”. So what's funny about a theory I don't actually have?

D: …since if you took the time to study the pyramids you would know there was a progression as they learned they would incorporate more and more. …

SC: I study the pyramids plenty, both from the books and on the ground. So what’s your point?

D: But you can see the similarities in even small details like how they designed corridors to be blocked….

SC: And this would be just as important for a ‘recovery vault’ as it would for any tomb. In a tomb, however, you do not leave the key in the lock. Study the internal architecture of the GP and you will find that this is exactly what occurred. Of course, as a ‘recovery vault’ which was intended to be breached, leaving the key in the lock would be helpful indeed. It’s detailed in here:

10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory

D:…and of course the funerary temples attached to the pyramids as well.

SC: “Funerary temples”? I think you mean the so-called ‘mortuary temple’. But this word ‘mortuary’ is but a label to identify a structure that Egyptologists merely BELIEVE performed a particular function within the Pyramid Tomb Theory. In the ‘Recovery Vault Theory’ (RVT) these structures were not at all ‘mortuary’ in nature but ‘Chthonic Temples’ wherein the priesthood would recite prayers, spells and incantations to ensure the rebirth/recovery of the Kingdom (not the king) just like the AEs would later build their great sun temples to recite prayers and spells to ensure the rebirth of the sun each morning. And a big clue to the Chthonic function of these temples was found in the stone container (Neb-ankh) of G2. But, of course, conventional Egyptology simply ignores or glosses over any such evidence that does not fit into its pyramid tomb narrative.

D: And then theres Khafre's pyramid you ignored buily after and in many ways better craftsmanship but it was 3 ft shorter the Kufus …

SC: 30 foot shorter, I believe. And your point here is?

….but this is where the spinx enclosure was built.

SC: ??? You give the impression here that the Sphinx and its enclosure sits next to G2. It does not. The Sphinx enclosure was crafted at the bottom end of G2’s causeway, some way down the plateau beside the Valley Temple close to the Nile. And your point here is?

Regards,

SC

dragonridr
reply to post by sulaw

 

Since i was on here figured id answer the question you were asking he wrote a book called called the Giza prophecy...

SC: My book, The Giza Prophecy, was released only last year. I have held this Forum on ATS for some considerable time longer.

D:... this is the main reason i know hes not going to change his mind.

SC: I will change my mind (and have done) when new evidence/proof emerges that demands so. That is what good researchers do. If you have indeed read The Giza Prophecy you will know that I have dated the old kingdom pyramids (3rd/4th dynasty) to ca.2,600 BCE, pretty much in line with conventional thought. However, new evidence has provided fresh insight that permits me to reasonably argue that these monuments may actually be around 20,000 years old. I present that change of mind with the supporting evidence for it in my forthcoming book, The Secret Chamber of Osiris.

D: He believes the pyramids or older based off the alignment of orions belt. read the book and its not a bad theory ....

SC: Suggest you re-read The Giza Prophecy. As stated above, the book presents the date ca.2,600 BCE as the age of the monuments so I don't see how you conclude from that book that I believe "...the pyramids are older..." than conventional timelines.

D:...however a large part of the alignment of the pyramids was due to the hills all ready there alot of people dont realize the pyramids were built over existing hills. Did they scout the hills finding 2 in the area they wanted who knows...

SC: Where's Menkaure's hill (sacred mound)? If this was so essential then surely Menkaure would have found a mound somewhere else over which he could build his pyramid? Did Menkaure sacrifice a sacred mound under his pyramid to ensure the Orion correlation could be completed? (And btw, they cut away a large part of the mound under G2). In any case, as far as the Orion connection goes, mounds or no mounds, the plateau at Giza with its particular features and attributes enabled the ancient builders to do what they desired.

D: However to try to date the pyramids by constellation alignment is to say the least kind of out there.

SC: Actually, it is the natural and most logical way to date something over very long periods of time. We do the same thing ourselves even today. Take the Hoover Dam, for example--the position of the stars overhead the dam when it was completed are etched into the forecourt. This will allow people, thousands of years from now, to work out and know when the dam was constructed. So, using star constellations to date man-made monuments is not as "out there" as you imagine.

Regards,

SC

reply to post by Scott Creighton


The papyrus actually said he helped with construction of the pyramid. Since we know the egyptians knew the difference. If they were renovating the pyramid they would have told us that they did with the sphinx.The “Sphinx Stella” from 1400 B.C. tells us about the restoration of the Sphinx by Pharaoh Thutmosis IV. But they dont say they renovated the great pyramid. Secondly why is there no mention of the pyramid prior to Khufu surely someone would have noticed this huge monument just outside one of thier major cities?

And your 10 points is well wrong first thing i noticed is you state egyptologists say mastabas were stacked because of security yet continued being bult long after the great pyramid? The reason they suspect the mastabas were stacked is because the egyptians believed in RA the god of the sun. The same reasons the mayans built theres stairs to heaven so to speak. Not to mention im sure the suns rays shining through clouds probably also had something to do with it since it does make a pyramid shape.

Why would they worry about aligning a pyramid to orion since it would be more likely to be aligned with the sun you know RA? As far as as the pyramid i said feet however thinking meters khufus is 146.6 meters and Khafres pyramid is 143.5 making it 9 ft difference. The reason i mentioned this is you can see the advances made in the next pyramid it follows along design is very similar. Prior to the great pyramid you have 7 other pyramids built. they fall right in line the more they did the better they got at it. So your saying that 9 pyramids 10 if we add Menkaure's Pyramid were all ready dotting the landscape and no one noticed? Even in the papyrus i mentioned earlier King Amenhotep I commissioned a report to check to see if thieves broke in to tombs in it pyramids of the old kings is listed 10 funny huh? Then theres the westcar papyrus tells of how Khufu searched for the secret documents of the god Thoth in order to design the chambers of his pyramid.

As far as alignment with the pyramids what do you think was actually lined up with orion? You cant be talking the shafts in the pyramid because thats just silly the main entrance well cant see how you can line that up. So what on earth could you possibly line up with orion especially since we are on a globe that spins making the constellations move in a couple of hours across the sky? Did they have a built in telescope i missed?

reply to post by dragonridr


Hi Dragonridr,

The papyrus actually said he helped with construction of the pyramid. Since we know the egyptians knew the difference. If they were renovating the pyramid they would have told us that they did with the sphinx.The “Sphinx Stella” from 1400 B.C. tells us about the restoration of the Sphinx by Pharaoh Thutmosis IV. But they dont say they renovated the great pyramid. Secondly why is there no mention of the pyramid prior to Khufu surely someone would have noticed this huge monument just outside one of thier major cities?

SC: Do keep in mind here what I told you previously—I have no issue with Khufu being the builder of the Great Pyramid and have stated many times (here on ATS and elsewhere) that, in all likelihood, he probably was the builder of this structure. But I have come to that conclusion for different reasons to the ones you present here. Until I see the complete translations of this papyrus, I will reserve my judgement on its merits and thus, its implications. I need to see the full context in which things are being said in the papyrus. For example, we are given various reports that will say something like, “It’s the diary of Merrer, an Old Kingdom official involved in the building of the Great Pyramid of Cheops... He mainly reported about his many trips to the Turah limestone quarry to fetch block for the building of the pyramid.”

Which pyramid? Does this papyrus actually, explicitly state “building of the Great Pyramid of Cheops” or is that statement merely an assumption by the Egyptologists? From where I stand it seems like an assumption because the term “Great Pyramid” would not have been known to Khufu (Cheops) and thus would not have been stated in such a document. In fact, it was actually the pyramid of Khafre that was, in ancient times, known as the Great Pyramid. Are the Egyptologists inserting into this papyrus their own preconceived notions simply because they believe Khufu built the Great Pyramid? If the text actually simply says “building of the pyramid” (with Khufu’s name placed elsewhere in the document), then that leaves open an entirely different interpretation. We really need to see the full text before we can say definitively one thing or another if it is proof-positive that Khufu built the Great Pyramid.

D: And your 10 points is well wrong first thing i noticed is you state egyptologists say mastabas were stacked because of security yet continued being bult long after the great pyramid? The reason they suspect the mastabas were stacked is because the egyptians believed in RA the god of the sun. The same reasons the mayans built theres stairs to heaven so to speak. Not to mention im sure the suns rays shining through clouds probably also had something to do with it since it does make a pyramid shape.

SC: If you read the paper properly you will find that my statement in the paper regarding mastaba security was that originally the dead were buried in simple pits covered over with a mound of sand and stones (sometimes broken pottery). These were easily breached by people and scavenging animals and so a more secure structure, the stone mastaba, was developed to provide better protection from these threats. And as for the “sun’s rays” and the “ladder to the heavens” put forward by Egyptology to explain the pyramid’s shape and its size, these are but THEORIES. There is no proof of this being behind the pyramid’s conception. The question the Egyptologists do not adequately answer is why a massive pyramid was suddenly deemed necessary when the humble mastaba was sufficient before, during and after the pyramid-building age. However, as the sun cult rose to prominence, it is quite conceivable that such religious ideas may well have become associated with the pyramids.

D: Why would they worry about aligning a pyramid to orion since it would be more likely to be aligned with the sun you know RA?

SC: If the use of Orion’s Belt offered them a means to do what they needed to do (i.e. create a precessional clock to allow them to date the monuments) then why wouldn’t they? And btw, the sun in the form of Shesep Ankh Atum (i.e. the Sphinx) is indeed a key part of the precession clock at Giza, being the ‘hand’ of the clock.

D: The reason i mentioned this is you can see the advances made in the next pyramid it follows along design is very similar. Prior to the great pyramid you have 7 other pyramids built. they fall right in line the more they did the better they got at it. So your saying that 9 pyramids 10 if we add Menkaure's Pyramid were all ready dotting the landscape and no one noticed?

SC: What is the relevance of this? Why would no one notice the pyramids?

D: Even in the papyrus i mentioned earlier King Amenhotep I commissioned a report to check to see if thieves broke in to tombs in it pyramids of the old kings is listed 10 funny huh?

SC: Eh? (I suspect English is not your first language as I am having some difficulty in comprehending some of your points, so, my apologies).

D: As far as alignment with the pyramids what do you think was actually lined up with orion? You cant be talking the shafts in the pyramid because thats just silly the main entrance well cant see how you can line that up. So what on earth could you possibly line up with orion especially since we are on a globe that spins making the constellations move in a couple of hours across the sky? Did they have a built in telescope i missed?

SC: Strongly suggest you re-read the relevant chapter of The Giza Prophecy again—you have clearly missed a lot. Here’s a thread that might help clarify things for you.

The Giza Precession Clock

Regards,

SC

Hieroglyphs of Apis the bull deity

“On his forehead he had a white triangle, on his back was a figure of a vulture with outstretched wings, his right side had a crescent moon, his tongue had the image of a scarab, and finally, the hairs on his tail were doubled.”

www.anubis.org...

After doing a little digging into the bull cult of Egypt it appears that the great pyramids are structures for the bull deity Apis. Even his hieroglyph is the pyramid shape. I bet the selected bull, with the triangle on its forehead, was allowed to roam the interior of the pyramid and its every move was recorded to foretell future events.

Maybe Khufu had the great pyramid built but it wasn’t for his body.

After looking up that information it kind of reminded me of the Atlantean cult mentioned by Plato.

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Yeah believing the egyptians built a giant calendar in Giza makes so much sense. Now i have at least some confidence in the idea Giza was modeled with orion in mind. But none of it makes sense why would Khafre build the sphinx to line up with a pyramid that hasnt even been built yet? Then theres the fact there would have had to been a master blueprint and that each Pharaoh after Khufu would have had to say hey i like this plan lets build it.Pharaohs are big on self glorification not so much on grand plans. Dont you think it easy to explain the alignment because we simply have lots of stuff to draw lines from in a small spaces? Why is it important for your circle to touch the queens pyramid on one end but your lehner doesnt finish on the circle you drew. See funny thing our minds can make relationships which arent really there like an ink blot test. Your seeing a connection and willing to if i draw this and this everything lines up you could do the same with triangles on a map of Giza.

Problem is even in your own drawings its ok if they arent on your circle because you decided that unnecessary right? To make your map truly line up Menkhuars pyramid would have had to been placed about a 150 mters to the south west. Did they just make a mistake but entirely acurate on the rest?

reply to post by dragonridr


Hello Dragonridr,

To be honest, I am not exactly sure what point(s), if any, you are attempting to make in your post. I shall, however, go through your statements and hopefully clarify some things for you.

D: Yeah believing the egyptians built a giant calendar in Giza makes so much sense.

SC: Only inasmuch as this was the secondary function of the Giza pyramids. The evidence suggests that the primary function of all sixteen 3rd and 4th dynasty pyramids was as a giant recovery system of which Giza was but one part. All of the other early giant pyramids (i.e. Meidum, Dahshur, Zawayet El Aryan, Giza & Abu Roash) were included in this plan. In time, long after the plan was completed, the arrangement of these 16 pyramids would become to the later AEs the dismembered ‘Body of Osiris’, the AE god of agriculture and rebirth.

Now, given that the AEs apparently planned to build all these pyramids anyway (for storage of all manner of recovery items), it is perfectly sensible that they at least organize some of the vaults they intended building (i.e. those at Giza) in such a way that it presents a precession timeline that allows the system to be dated using the stars of Orion’s Belt—just as our own civilization did with the Hoover Dam. There was no need for the forecourt at the Hoover Dam to present a star chart since that is not the dam’s primary function. But it helps future generations to date the ‘monument’.

D: Now i have at least some confidence in the idea Giza was modeled with orion in mind.

SC: I suspect you are saying this with a hint of cynicism. The proof of the Giza/Orion connection is all over Giza and is much, much more than the simple layout of the three main pyramids there corresponding to the pattern of Orion’s Belt. We find the connection to Orion’s Belt ALSO in the proportional sizes of each of the three main Giza pyramids. You can see this here:

Giza-Orion Geo-Stellar Fingerprint

And we find it also in the relative placement of the two sets of so-called ‘Queens Pyramids’ at Giza. You can see this here:

Precession of the Queens

So you see, there is much in this grand design that points to a clear and unambiguous connection to the three stars of Orion’s Belt.

D: But none of it makes sense why would Khafre build the sphinx to line up with a pyramid that hasnt even been built yet? Then theres the fact there would have had to been a master blueprint and that each Pharaoh after Khufu would have had to say hey i like this plan lets build it. Pharaohs are big on self glorification not so much on grand plans.

SC: First of all, in this period they were not ‘pharaohs’ but ‘kings’ of Egypt. Secondly, if they were so big “on self glorification" we would have found their names inscribed all over these monuments. We simply don’t. Thirdly, Egyptologists are fond of claiming that the placement and design of each pyramid was solely down to the desire of the king, inferring that there was no grand, unified design, no trans-generational plan. The evidence on the ground, however, totally contradicts their view. I will give you a couple of small examples but there are many others.









And finally, yes, there clearly WAS a “master blueprint” and we learn of this through some ancient Arabic sources:

The priest having thus spoken, the king commanded them to take the height of the stars, and to consider what accident they portended. Whereupon they declared that they promised first the Deluge, and after that fire. Then he commanded pyramids should be built, that they might remove and secure in them what was of most esteem in their treasuries,... that the violence of the water might not destroy it." - Murtadi - (992 AD at Tithe, in Arabia). Translated in 1672.

D: Dont you think it easy to explain the alignment because we simply have lots of stuff to draw lines from in a small spaces?

SC: If that were the case then you should be able to complete this challenge:

The Challenge.

Get three friends to each draw a random square or rectangle onto a piece of card. Cut out these three squares/rectangles. These are your three random bases. Carefully mark the centre of each of the cut-out bases with a black pen. Mark the centre of one edge of each of the three bases—this is your pyramid’s entrance.

Now scatter your three cards (bases) randomly to the floor. Observe the pattern made by the three centres of these three cards.

Now, using the centres of your three cards, follow the procedure outlined in the Giza-Orion Geo-Stellar Fingerprint (above) and try and recreate your three bases in the order and rotation they have fallen and in the shape and proportions they have been made by your three friends. (You might find it helpful to photograph the arrangement with a digital camera, upload the image into Powerpoint or some other application and attempt the procedure that way. Saves a lot of time crawling about the floor).

If the first arrangement of the centres doesn't produce a match in orientation, order, shape and proportion to the three bases created by your three friends or that you cannot pass three inter-quarter lines through the three bases then throw your three card bases to the floor again - and repeat. Keep repeating until you find a match. What you will quickly realise, is that you would not have enough life-times to find such a match.

And yet, quite incredibly, this is what we find at Giza. This proves the unified plan beyond any reasonable doubt.

But there is a very specific and quite remarkable reason for designing the three Gizamids using this particular technique but I shan’t go into that here.


Continued..........

Continued from previous....

D: Why is it important for your circle to touch the queens pyramid on one end but your lehner doesnt finish on the circle you drew.

SC: The ‘Lehner line’ isn’t actually mine. The ‘Lehner-Goedicke Line’ (to give it its full name) was actually discovered by Egyptologists, Dr Mark Lehner and Hans Goedicke. These two Egyptologists did not, however, realize the significance of this line they had discovered nor its use as a precession timeline—they merely observed the line without understanding why the builders had created it. The timeline is determined by the precession of the Orion Belt stars and, as such, it serves as the axis between the two culminations of the Belt stars (i.e. the two sets of queen’s pyramids). The axis ‘connects’ Al Nitak (G1a) at maximum culmination and Al Nitak (G3a) at minimum culmination. The circle merely ‘informs’ us that the Sphinx is also part of the time mechanism i.e. it serves as the ‘clock hand’.





Understand that the positions of the Belts stars at their two culminations (shown above) are two very unique moments in the precessional cycle of Orion's Belt and it is these two unique moments that the ancients have depicted for us on the ground at Giza.

D: See funny thing our minds can make relationships which arent really there like an ink blot test.

SC: You are talking about pareidolia. That is the phenomenon when you observe a face in the clouds or in a wallpaper pattern, for example:



This is simply not the same thing. The presentation of the so-called ‘queens pyramids’ showing us the precessional maximum and minimum culminations cannot actually be observed at any point—they have to be calculated/projected using maths and astronomy. The other point about pareidolia is that others can see the pattern. No one has ever seen what I have presented because it is about maths and astronomy—you can only ‘see’ it when you do the maths. If you still insist this is the result of pareidolia then I suggest you have a go at ‘The Challenge’ I presented you above. You will very quickly realize the emptiness of your claim.

D: Your seeing a connection and willing to if i draw this and this everything lines up you could do the same with triangles on a map of Giza.

SC: And yet, when drawing a circle around the three most outer corners of the Giza pyramid field (there are only three) we find that the Sphinx just happens to find itself sitting right on the edge of the circumscribed circle. We find that the Sphinx bi-sects the precession timeline at precisely its midpoint. Now, if you are of the opinion that that occurrence is the result of simple happenstance, along with all the other mathematical/astronomical observations here, then you are simply deluding yourself.

D: Problem is even in your own drawings its ok if they arent on your circle because you decided that unnecessary right?

SC: And that is because the line and the circle are doing two quite different things.

D: To make your map truly line up Menkhuars pyramid would have had to been placed about a 150 mters to the south west. Did they just make a mistake but entirely acurate on the rest?

SC: The system works just fine as it is. It allows us to date the monuments very easily in a simple and logical manner just as the Hoover Dam star system allows us (and future generations) to date the Hoover Dam in a similar way.

Regards,

SC

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Ok Heres the deal with orions belt first the layout of the pyramids is not an exact match for orions belt never was. But i have always been willing to accept there a little off. Though there is another group that thinks sygnus makes a much better map of the pyramids. And in truth cygnus was a pole star so there is a possibility there correct. Now back to orion the reason i said i think notice cant prove isone of the shafts in the Great Pyramid did indeed point directly at a star in Orion’s belt at around 2450 b.c. This is right in line with when egyptologists say the pyramid was built. The problem is with your theory your going back even further for no plausible reason whatsoever. And it seems your unaware of something called stellar drift. The stars we see today didnt make the same constellations. So lets start here:



As we can see this is orions belt consist of 3 stars well groups of stars.The one ill start with is Alnitak this is actually the brightest star or stars in orions belt . The primary star being a hot blue giant in fact its the brightest class o star in the sky.It has 2 other companion stars with it but of course the egyptians wouldnt know this so it is irrelevant. The second star in orions belt is Alnilam is another blue giant what makes it interesting is the haze that can be seen from earth because it is surrounded by a molecular cloud designated NGC 1990.And now mintaka again this is a multiple star system consisting of a class B giant and a smaller but hotter class O in fact interestingly in a very tight orbit. This is the closest stars to us in orions belt 690 light years.

Now the reason for my astronomy lesson is just to get people up to speed when i discuss something called stellar drift.Basically the stars we see in the sky today were not always in the same configurations. Stars are not standing still they are moving and fast. So this means that constellations we see today didnt exist in the past because stars moved in to there current positions. This is part of the problem i have with people who want to use the zodiac to predict the future etc.So lets look back at the sky shall we and will use google have to give them their credit.



Notice the further we go back in time the more Mintaka has moved!On a star chart its traveling basically north east or to the top right corner.This means in 10500 bc for example the bend we see in orion would have looked almost straight. Since alnilam and alnitak are just slowly moving to the bottom. So if the stars in orions belt doesnt look like they do today why would they model giza on how the stars look now instead of when they were built?

To continue running out of room anyway lets look at another plausible explanation for the location of the sphinx other then Mr Chrightons. He says the spinx was placed by Khufu to basically split his calendar or time line. What if its there to worship their principal deity at the time Ra or Atum or even Atum-Ra. Lets pull up a map and look shall we:



The sphinx is shown greeting the rising sun. This can also be used to line up an important date december 15th this marks the end of the flooding of the nile delta.As they say let the planting begin. You cannot ignore the importance of the Nile on egyptian life it was the end of the flooding started there new year!You could literally have a priest look out there door and check to see when the sun rose over the sphinx. Oh and no i was serious when i said orion did contribute to the lay out orion when it rose usually around september told them when they need to harvest before the flood. But as i point out the further back we go in time the less the configuration becomes valid!

Now the other reason the Sphinx is where it is as opposed to placing it on some imaginary circle the nile wasnt always were it is now! And there major form of transportation was the nile so stepping off a boat and having the sphinx greet you is pretty damn impressive! So in short seems the great pyramid and the heavens all agree at when the great pyramid was built around 2650 BCE. And im betting this was good news to Khufu i mean who wants to be 8000 years older.

Scott - excellent display of work once again!
Many years in fascination I have spent with earth's ancient monuments,
it is the work of others including your own (yes I follow your work)
that I made my own discoveries.

For that, I salute you sir!

Here, I present some of my findings..

This is from a book/slash website in my future
(could truly use some help with this: feel free to PM me Scott - anyone!)
where I display decoded ancient mysterious monuments such as,
The pyramid airshafts and what they truly represent.
The solved mystery behind the Atacama Giant, the Nazca Lines,
Atlantis and the Hall of Records showing the actual blueprints of
said Hall, and yes - the pyramid blueprints also.
(encoded in mathematics)

Enough -

Did the builders of the ancient pyra-temples understand the celestial movements
according to mathematics coupled with the knowledge of Pythagorian's principle..?

It would seem so..








Using 'satelites' closets to pyramids center for starting reference.



What is interesting, is about the Pi factor -
The G.P. of G. is built on 13 acres.. 130 feet (13 again) above the Nile.
It is 481 feet tall - 4+8+1=13.
13 is known to Pi.
(there are more 13's involved with Giza)

The earth's axial preccesion, the God year..
25, 920 years rounded up to 26,000 divided by two
gives you the magical number of - you guessed it! 13

How did the Egyptians as we know them posses such knowledge,
and why specifically is the number 13 so apparent..?

There are NO accidents at Giza.. especially when you equate other
ancient monuments strewn across our planet that also incorporate 13.

(again Scott, I thank and bow to your ground breaking work)