10 FACTS You Must Know About The Jesuits

reply to post by kyviecaldges

Dear kyviecaldges,

The Abraham Lincoln story has some legs.

I assume by that you mean there is evidence that Lincoln was killed by the Jesuits in some way. If not, then what is the "Lincoln Story" you refer to? Whether Lincoln liked the Jesuits or not is what we're talking about. The charge was made that the Assassination can be laid at the feet of the Jesuits. There has been no evidence that Catholicism was a significant part of Booth's life, let alone the Jesuits.

I went to the link you provided. The first highlighted section was:

The infamous Dred Scott Decision was rendered by the fanatical Roman Catholic Judge Taney, the Chief Justice of the United States at that time.

There is nothing in the article indicating he was "fanatical," and the decision was 7-2. Is the article implying that the Court had 7 fanatical Catholic Justices? This section indicates an inflammatory, instead of scholarly approach.

It is all based upon his relationship with a priest named Charles Chiniquy.

He was a priest, until he was excommunicated. He then became a Presbyterian, and got into trouble there. Then he started his own church in Canada. Jack Chick really likes his work and relies on it a lot.

His Wiki biography is fairly short, but it condemns him as a source for much of anything regarding Catholicsm.

en.wikipedia.org...

I am not saying that the Jesuits killed Lincoln,

Do you think they didn't? Or, perhaps you don't know? Well, the OP seemed sure, so I suppose you don't accept his certainty.

It's worth investigating prior to showing contempt.

Contempt for the "Booth was part of a Jesuit plot" theory? I looked into briefly, found no evidence, indeed indications that Catholicism didn't matter to him. Then I showed contempt. It certainly seemed deserved.

Absolutely seriously. I'll swear up and down this is true. If I am wrong, I want to know it. I don't want to go around with wrong opinions. But I also don't want to accept as true, extraordinary, libelous statements when presented without evidence.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


You've got mail.

charles1952
reply to post by BlueMoonJoe

 

Dear BlueMoonJoe,

I'm certainly willing to discuss thing with you, but we have to be honest with each other. You imply, in a rather sneaky way, you must admit, that the SS and Hitler admired something about the Jesuit goals, beliefs, and attitudes.

You don't quite make clear what those goals, beliefs and attitudes were, you just make a vague connection between Jesuit and Nazi, and hope people will be horrified.

I didn't sneakily imply anything. I bolded exactly what it is I thought it was that he admired when I quoted his SD chief:

The SS had been organized by Heinrich Himmler according to the principles of the Jesuit Order. The rules of service and spiritual exercises prescribed by Ignatius de Loyola constituted a model which Heinrich Himmler strove carefully to copy. Absolute obedience was the supreme rule; every order had to be executed without comment.- Walter Shellenberg (Chief of the Nazi Sicherheitdienst (SD)

hitlernews.cloudworth.com...

Nothing sneaky about it. As for anyone being horrified by the connection, well, that depends on how they feel about the Nuremberg defense. To be sure, a Jesuit would have no problem with it.

I know you saw my reply to the OP, you quoted part of it. I can't believe that you didn't see the rest, you just chose not to include it. Here it is for those keeping score at home. "I know you don't want to hear it, but so what? An organizational structure is something devised to keep people organized and directed to a goal. It says nothing whatever about what the goal is. I bet you didn't know that both the Jesuits and the Nazis used hammers to drive nails. What more proof is needed? But if someone is trying to sneakily and dishonestly associate the Jesuits with the Nazis in their goals:

The Nazi regime considered the Jesuits one of their most dangerous enemies. According to John Pollard, the Jesuit's "ethos represented the most intransigent opposition to the philosophy of Nazism." A Jesuit college in the city of Innsbruck served as a center for anti-Nazi resistance and was closed down by the Nazis in 1938. Jesuits were a target for Gestapo prosecution and many Jesuit priests were deported to concentration camps. (Emphasis added)"

No, I didn't quote it because it is a non-sequitur to the fact in the op that you didn't at all refute:

Fact #3 Hitler modeled his dreaded SS army and party after the organizational structure of the Jesuits and the Roman Catholic Church:

Unless you are somehow implying, sneakily or otherwise, that one cannot model something after an enemy, I'm not sure what your point is. Regardless, that he would perceive them as enemies does not play to their favor if you examine what their ethos actually is.

Honestly, truly, and sincerely, I want to know truth. We have to search for it honestly and openly. If you're willing to, I'm glad to have you along. If not, enjoy your trip, but we're on different paths.

This is a far different tune than the one you were originally singing when you first responded by slashing and burning the op and dismissing it out of hand as nothing but lies, so I suppose we can call it an improvement. Still, I can do without the sneaky implication that I have been in any way dishonest or haven't been open.

Here is some more re the connection between the Jesuits and Hitler/SS:

“[SS General Heinrich] Himmler owned an extremely large and excellent library on the Jesuit Order and for years would sit up late studying the extensive literature. Thus he built up the SS organization according to the principles of the Jesuits. The Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola served as the foundation; the supreme law was absolute obedience, the execution of any order whatsoever without question.

Himmler himself, as Reichsfuhrer of the SS, was the general of the order. The structure of leadership was borrowed from the hierarchical order of the Catholic Church. Here the general of the order would hold a secret consistory once a year attended by the top leadership of the order. They would take part in spiritual exercises and practice sessions in concentration [as does every professed Jesuit, while led by a guide, studies The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola once a year for thirty days, much of the time spent in silence and “meditation”].

No doubt these mystical leanings of [Bavarian-born] Himmler go back in part to his attitude toward the Catholic Church, which might be called ‘love-hate;’ and in part to his strict upbringing by his [Jesuit Temporal Coadjutor] father with its stern Catholic code of conduct, from which he fled into . . . [Loyola’s] romanticism . . .” [27] [Emphasis added] Walter Schellenberg, 1950 SS/SD Nazi General The Labyrinth: Memoirs of Walter Schellenberg Eric Jon Phelps – Vatican Assassins III (page 1037)

***
Hitler did not award the palm of Jesuitism to his chief of propaganda, though to the Gestapo’s chief, as he told his favourites: “I can see Himmler as our Ignatius of Loyola”Adolf Hitler: “Libres propos” (Flammarion, Paris 1952, p.164) Edmond Paris – The Secret History of the Jesuits

nomanregarded.blogspot.com...

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe

Please note that I never denied the SS took the organizational system from the Jesuits, even thought the sources are questionable. [I]Vatican Assassins? That's going to be a neutral , serious book.

Let us assume for a moment that the Jesuits were all for obedience and the Nazis were all for obedience. If these were the only two organizations which emphasized obedience I might possibly be worried, but they're not.

OK, so that we can move on, we'll assume obedience.

We can also assume that the Jesuits built a lot of schools. Just like the charge that the Nazis took an idea from the Jesuits, the idea that the Jesuits built a lot of schools is best answered by "So?"

Now, please consider the factual points which I have questioned, not the ones subject to interpretation, and provide answers. Just above this post you'll see a discussion on the assassination of Lincoln and Alexander I. Elsewhere, the Pope's confessor question.

I have not had pointed out any factual errors which I might have made in this thread, while I have pointed out factual errors made by the OP. Let's get that resolved.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I know this isn't my normal style, but I hate convention trips and I'm getting goofy.

charles1952
reply to post by BlueMoonJoe

 

Dear BlueMoonJoe,

You have spent a lot of time responding to me. Perhaps we can make this more productive. Instead of saying "I'm obviously right, and besides, showing that the sources quotes have factual errors doesn't destroy the source," we haven't accomplished much yet.

Perhaps "we" could make this more productive if you don't put poorly rendered paraphrases in my mouth and just go with quoting what I do say.

This is my suggestion. If I have said that a statement of the OP's was a factual error, and you believe it is not, give me some evidence that the OP is correct. If I have said something that you think is wrong, point it out specifically and show me your evidence.

I have done so to this point.

Arguing about whether the Jesuits were "suppressed" or "abolished" seems to be missing the point and focusing on minutiae, but if you need to continue on that I suppose I'll have to.

I thought it was an inane dodge and precisely what I meant when I said you were deflecting, but tripping over just that minutiae tree while ignoring the forest of WHY they were abolished was how you proposed to go about "destroying" the op, and you weren't even correct in your nitpicking. And now here you are disingenuously implying that I am the one guilty of minutiae because I called you on it, all while skipping over the meat of the matter, the papal bull you continue to ignore. That's bad form.

How about tackling the statement that all of the Pope's confessors have to be Jesuits, and only a Jesuit can absolve him of his sins? What do you have to say about the Jesuits killing Tsar Alexander I when historinas say it was an illness? How about proving John Wilkes Booth's connection to the Jesuits? Please, deal with facts, not vague allegations of "deflecting."

You didn't debunk fact #1
You skipped over fact #2 without mention.
You didn't debunk fact #3

I'll take them as they come up in your ops. So far, your gloating and claims of "destroying" have no substance behind them.

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe


Please provide links that verify your claims. It's what we do at ATS to keep it credible.
Thank you.

charles1952

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe

 

Please note that I never denied the SS took the organizational system from the Jesuits, even thought the sources are questionable. [I]Vatican Assassins? That's going to be a neutral , serious book.

No, you didn't deny it, you simply have insisted it has no importance on one hand while seeking to sow doubt about the sources all the same. It has the whiff of desperation.

The sources are not questionable. Beyond cavalier dismissal and ignoring main points, this questioning of sources is the only card you have in your deck and you have overplayed it from the start by smearing the op out of hand. Regardless, in your rush to dismiss, you missed the fact that the quote was from The Labyrinth: Memoirs of Walter Schellenberg [Hitler's head of counterintelligence] as sourced by Phelps in TVA.

As for taking umbrage with the use of "assassins" in the title of TVA, sorry, but the Jesuits are famous for assassination and have duly earned the mountains of opprobrium that has come their way. Phelps has no love for them, no, but that is not to the point. The book is 700 plus pages and is exhaustively documented. Your whining about neutrality is noted, as is your absolute lack of such yourself. So far you have ignored or dismissed every point made against them.

Let us assume for a moment that the Jesuits were all for obedience and the Nazis were all for obedience. If these were the only two organizations which emphasized obedience I might possibly be worried, but they're not. OK, so that we can move on, we'll assume obedience.

A perfect case in point. "All for obedience" in no way communicates the extreme nature of the level of unquestioned obedience that was demanded no matter how heinous the act or despicable the lack of moral compass. Again, this is the absolute acceptance of the ends justifies the means, and it's nice to know you have no qualms about such a stance.

We can also assume that the Jesuits built a lot of schools. Just like the charge that the Nazis took an idea from the Jesuits, the idea that the Jesuits built a lot of schools is best answered by "So?"

Answered, perhaps, best answered, perhaps not. Just as with your cavalier dismissal of the nazi modeling of the Jesuits, there is far more to their influence via their schools than your dismissal suggests as shall be seen.

Now, please consider the factual points which I have questioned, not the ones subject to interpretation, and provide answers. Just above this post you'll see a discussion on the assassination of Lincoln and Alexander I. Elsewhere, the Pope's confessor question.

I have not had pointed out any factual errors which I might have made in this thread, while I have pointed out factual errors made by the OP. Let's get that resolved.

Sorry, but your desire to fixate on factual trees does not negate the forest of poor interpretation that you are blundering about in, never mind your initial attempt at wholesale smearing and dismissal via grandiose emotive overstatement. I will get to what I get to in my own time and in my own way.

Your crowing and preening about how you "destroyed" the op is dead wrong and that is the issue as I see it, as is your haughty conclusion to your original slash and burn:

What a sad waste of a thread. Well, at least I hope people know better now. "Deny Ignorance," right?

File me under those who don't know better.

I skipped over your wiki whitewash of Clement's poisoning, but since you are stubbornly claiming some immaterial high ground, let's go into that a bit. Your little bitty wikiwash is just that. Here's another take with a bit more detail:

Nothing but the most tremendous necessity could have made Clement XIV issue this bull. He knew well how unforgiving was the pride and how deadly the vengeance of the Society, and he did not conceal from himself the penalty he should have to pay for decreeing its suppression. On laying down his pen, after having put his name to the bull, he said to those around him that he had subscribed his death-warrant.[10] The Pope was at that time in robust health, and his vigorous constitution and temperate habits promised a long life. But now dark rumors began to be whispered in Italy that the Pontiff would die soon. In April of the following year he began to decline without any apparent cause: his illness increased: no medicine was of any avail: and after lingering in torture for months, he died, September 22nd, 1774.

“Several days before his death,” says Caraccioli, “his bones were exfoliated and withered like a tree which, attacked at its roots, withers away and throws off its bark. The scientific men who were called in to embalm his body found the features livid, the lips black, the abdomen inflated, the limbs emaciated, and covered with violet spots. The size of the head was diminished, and all the muscles were shrunk up, and the spine was decomposed. They filled the body with perfumed and aromatic substances, but nothing could dispel the mephitic effluvia.”[11]

doctrine.org...

Here's an exhaustively detailed account of his condition:

The Baltimore Literary and Religious Magazine 1835 - ‎Theology POISONING OF CLEMENT XIV., BY THE JESUITS

books.google.com... 7Mv3IrhxKLY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eBqlUqqCHpKSkQfZroHYCg&ved=0CO4BEOgBMCY#v=onepage&q=pope%20clement%20xiv%20poisoned&f=false

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


I've supplied many links. What claims are you referring to?

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe


I would like to see the link that speaks to your statement that all papal confessors must be Jesuits for starters.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


I didn't make that statement, the op did. Check that for links.

Why are you so blindly supporting the Jesuits, anyway?

BlueMoonJoe
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

I didn't make that statement, the op did. Check that for links.

Why are you so blindly supporting the Jesuits, anyway?

Sorry to have confused you with the OP the link provided says nothing of this claim that only Jesuits can be Papal confessors Paganism and the Priesthoodamazingdiscoveries.org...

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


Again, why are you so blindly defending them? Is it just because someone said something bad about Catholics or is it something else?

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe


Back to you.

Here is some more re the connection between the Jesuits and Hitler/SS: “[SS General Heinrich] Himmler owned an extremely large and excellent library on the Jesuit Order and for years would sit up late studying the extensive literature. Thus he built up the SS organization according to the principles of the Jesuits. The Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola served as the foundation; the supreme law was absolute obedience, the execution of any order whatsoever without question. Himmler himself, as Reichsfuhrer of the SS, was the general of the order. The structure of leadership was borrowed from the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola the hierarchical order of the Catholic Church. Here the general of the order would hold a secret consistory once a year attended by the top leadership of the order. They would take part in spiritual exercises and practice sessions in concentration [as does every professed Jesuit, while led by a guide, studies The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola once a year for thirty days, much of the time spent in silence and “meditation”]. No doubt these mystical leanings of [Bavarian-born] Himmler go back in part to his attitude toward the Catholic Church, which might be called ‘love-hate;’ and in part to his strict upbringing by his [Jesuit Temporal Coadjutor] father with its stern Catholic code of conduct, from which he fled into . . . [Loyola’s] romanticism . . .” [27] [Emphasis added] Walter Schellenberg, 1950 SS/SD Nazi General The Labyrinth: Memoirs of Walter Schellenberg Eric Jon Phelps – Vatican Assassins III (page 1037) *** Hitler did not award the palm of Jesuitism to his chief of propaganda, though to the Gestapo’s chief, as he told his favourites: “I can see Himmler as our Ignatius of Loyola”Adolf Hitler: “Libres propos” (Flammarion, Paris 1952, p.164) Edmond Paris – The Secret History of the Jesuits nomanregarded.blogspot.com...

Well, maybe we should connect Hilter with Alcoholic's Anonymous because their 12 Step Program is nearly identical to the the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola you so greatly abhor.
Lets Ask Bill

Bill is the founder of AA and this link answers this question:

Q - Can the Twelve Steps be compared to the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius?

It is an interesting short read of how the two mesh. I hope you read it.

While of course the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous contain nothing new, there seems no doubt that this singular and exact identification with the Ignatius Exercises has done much to make the close and fruitful relation that we now enjoy with the Church. (The 'Blue Book'©, Vol.12, 1960)

You think I am blindly supporting the Jesuits? Well your blog link really is contrary to the information I am aware of:

152 Jesuit Victims of the Nazis

*** Jesuits Killed During the Holocaust - 82 Victims Jesuits who Died in Concentration Camps - 43 Victims Jesuits who Died in Captivity or of its Results - 27 Victims -- From The Jesuits and the Third Reich by Vincent A. Lapomarda.

For being such a big fan of Loyola you wouldn't think Hitler would have killed so many of his order.

You align the Jesuits and the Nazi's and think that I am blind supporting them when 152 Jesuits where martyred by the Nazis?

Catholics don't write volumes (or diddly squat) on the wrongdoings of Protestants so I am wary to read all their facts in your links attacking Jesuits and blindly accept them as truth.

I certainly get the impression some people don't want Catholic around.

"Let He who is without sin cast the first stone." was take taken out of the Protestant bible?

reply to post by charles1952


Lincoln defended Chiniquy against charges of libel. I think.
All that is officially known is that Lincoln did, for sure, represent Chiniquy in court in Illinois.
That is universally accepted as true by any Lincoln biographer.

I don't know the entire story because no official records exist other than Chiniquy's own writings, but the man, Chiniquy, believed that Lincoln's assassination was linked to the Jesuits.

Chiniquy is a divisive figure.

The reason that I said that I don't know is because of what I just made reference to. So little evidence exists.

Of course I do know much more than I am typing here, but if I was to just tell you then it wouldn't serve you.

You have to find it.

But only if you want to look for it.

That is why I made reference to the maxim of "contempt prior to investigation".
None of what you find will prove anything either way.
You have to come to your own belief.

As for me. I do have an opinion on this, but I will never confirm or deny it.
That is what anyone with a proper respect for the research process would say.
But much more exists to this story than is found in the link that was provided by the green eyed lady.

Any link that tries to make you believe one way or the other- be very wary.

I am no historian, intellectual or brilliant researcher. Much of what I believe is based on my life experiences.

As I mentioned previously, my ex's uncle spend his life as a Jesuit missionary in India. I never had the pleasure of meeting the man, but I would like to relate a story about him that may help you to see why I just can't see why the internet is inundated with conspiracy rumors that blame the Jesuits for so much evil in the world.

One year we sent the Jesuits missions a $30 donation and asked that it be used in his uncles ministry. When we received a thank you note he shared that most families don't make that much in a month.

When he came to the U.S. (only once in his lifetime to visit family) he went home very sad. The consumerism that has afforded the average person to live like kings compared to his flock in India disheartened him. I remember a comment he wrote in one of his letters that he was shocked at the amount of pancakes a restaurant had served him. They survive with much less. He was very happy to get back to his home in India. He loved the people and would share with us some of the crisis's they dealt with in detail. He died and is buried in the country that was his true home. His thoughts were wise and kind. He was Christlike in his ministry and I guess that is the highest compliment I would give anyone.

I have looked around the internet and note the Jesuits are being blamed for everything from, killing U.S. presidents, Sandy Hook shootings, sinking of the Titanic - you name it, someone is blaming the Jesuits. They helped start both world wars and started the Skull and Bones. They detonated the bomb at Hiroshima. The internet has become a huge source of disinformation. Unfortunately, people believe what they read and see on youtubes. The level of hatred this has spawned is enormous. Sorry gang, I don't adhere to: "If you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth."

People, hatred is evil. It is not of God.

I imagine the fact that the new pope is a Jesuit might be fanning the flames of controversy..

Why not look at what he does?

10 Things Pope Francis Has Done That Make Me Consider Being Catholic

Is Pope Francis Leaving Vatican At Night To Minister To Homeless?

Listen to what he says:

Pope Francis Brainy Quotes

Feel free to discredit my opinion. I acknowledge I am biased and support what I believe is true.
I hope you look for the good they do, it's out there, too. It's just harder to find.

sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by BlueMoonJoe

 

Well, maybe we should connect Hilter with Alcoholic's Anonymous because their 12 Step Program is nearly identical to the the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola you so greatly abhor.

I don’t abhor the Exercises; they have proved useful for many over the centuries. Their creator, however, is another story. And even there, much of his character was commendable, but it was tied to that which was anything but.

Regardless, your reasoning re connecting Hitler to Bill is flawed: A is connected to B; A is connected to C; therefore B is connected to C is invalid. Also, do you have Hitler on record saying he saw Himmler as his ‟Bill” in the way that he said he saw him as his Loyola? That would seem to count for something.

You think I am blindly supporting the Jesuits? Well your blog link really is contrary to the information I am aware of:

I am hoping you are blindly supporting the Jesuits because the other options are more troubling. It hinges, as you say, on your awareness. There are three types of ignorance—honest, stubborn, and feigned.

Honest ignorance is just that, honest. You don’t know, you become aware, you recalibrate your view based upon new data.

If your ignorance is honest, so be it. Mine was as well. I was raised in the Church but did not know any of what I now know regarding history and the sordid role of the Jesuits in that history. I have since explored the subject in some detail and have had to recalibrate my position based upon what I learned.

This is not always easy and so many people cannot or will not recalibrate and continue to operate under stubborn ignorance. This is the domain of cognitive dissonance and while it is troubling, it is still understandable. It is a coping mechanism in the face of the harsh realities of the world.

But beyond honest and stubborn ignorance there is feigned ignorance. This is the manipulative machinations of those who seek to keep others ignorant. Unfortunately, this is a specialty of the Jesuits and all of what you cite in their defense is a byproduct of their cunning and their craft.

And without question, they practice this manipulation on their own and have no qualms about it whatsoever. Just like the Jews, just like the Masons.

And, though it should go without saying, when I speak of the crimes of the Jesuits, Jews, or the Masons, I am emphatically not speaking of ALL Jesuits, Jews, or Masons, but only the small subset that has exploited their own as well everyone else.

152 Jesuit Victims of the Nazis

*** Jesuits Killed During the Holocaust - 82 Victims Jesuits who Died in Concentration Camps - 43 Victims Jesuits who Died in Captivity or of its Results - 27 Victims -- From The Jesuits and the Third Reich by Vincent A. Lapomarda.

For being such a big fan of Loyola you wouldn't think Hitler would have killed so many of his order. You align the Jesuits and the Nazi's and think that I am blind supporting them when 152 Jesuits where martyred by the Nazis?

Again, this is a non-sequitur. It is just as fallacious as it was when Charles brought it up and simply does not follow in any logical manner. Beyond that, the alignment of the Jesuits and the Nazis is a historical reality that goes far beyond Hitler’s and Himmler’s personal feelings for Loyola.

You may be ignorant of that connection because you honestly haven’t been aware of it, but the material is out there in abundance and is not difficult to find. Of course, if you shy away from all sources that condemn the connection because they are "bad" sources, you aren't going to transcend your honest ignorance and remain in stubborn ignorance. I myself am none too happy about learning about that connection, but I cannot and will not pretend that it did not take place.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

Catholics don't write volumes (or diddly squat) on the wrongdoings of Protestants so I am wary to read all their facts in your links attacking Jesuits and blindly accept them as truth.

The idea that Catholics have not written and acted against the Protestants is far from reality. You might want to start with the Counter-Reformation. The Jesuits owe their very existence to one simple goal—the eradication of Protestantism. Everything else, all the machination and manipulation, the murder and mayhem, the madness and mendacity that they have set into spin throughout history stems from their zealous belief that the Pope is the rightful temporal ruler of the world.

Ushering in this order is their raison d'être and everything else is subservient to it. Just because it is no longer overt doesn't mean it just disappeared.

IUSTUM, NECAR, REGES, IMPIOUS: It is just to exterminate or annihilate impious or heretical Kings, Governments, or Rulers.

Maybe you can see why Hitler saw them as his enemy regardless of his admiration for their organization?

I certainly get the impression some people don't want Catholic around.

Well there ya go. All of the fear and loathing that people have fairly or unfairly felt at Catholics in general is because of the horror of the Jesuits in particular. Growing up, I never understood why Catholics were so hated. Now I do understand.

As usual, the rank and file innocents are rankly defiled because of the pernicious actions of the few at the top of the food chain.

Truly, we are pawns in their game, as the guy who gave you your screen name so famously said. (Of course, as anyone familiar with Dylan would, I assume you take your name from Sad-eyed Lady of the Lowlands.)

"Let He who is without sin cast the first stone." was take taken out of the Protestant bible?

No, it wasn’t. But if you are not familiar with the doctrines of your church in general and the Jesuits in particular, the Bible is not the final authority on this or any subject.

The Protestants beg to differ, of course, and that has been the core issue of all the fuss ever since the Reformation. Truly, when push comes to shove, from a doctrinal pov, the Pope has more authority than God. Seriously. You can look it up.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

I am no historian, intellectual or brilliant researcher. Much of what I believe is based on my life experiences.

Fair enough, but one’s life experiences are always situated in a larger context. Like I said, I was raised in the Church, but knew nothing of its history and workings. Now that I do, it’s a completely different picture, whether I like it or not.

As I mentioned previously, my ex's uncle spend his life as a Jesuit missionary in India. I never had the pleasure of meeting the man, but I would like to relate a story about him that may help you to see why I just can't see why the internet is inundated with conspiracy rumors that blame the Jesuits for so much evil in the world. One year we sent the Jesuits missions a $30 donation and asked that it be used in his uncles ministry. When we received a thank you note he shared that most families don't make that much in a month.

When he came to the U.S. (only once in his lifetime to visit family) he went home very sad. The consumerism that has afforded the average person to live like kings compared to his flock in India disheartened him. I remember a comment he wrote in one of his letters that he was shocked at the amount of pancakes a restaurant had served him. They survive with much less. He was very happy to get back to his home in India. He loved the people and would share with us some of the crisis's they dealt with in detail. He died and is buried in the country that was his true home. His thoughts were wise and kind. He was Christlike in his ministry and I guess that is the highest compliment I would give anyone.

This is the sadness at the heart of the madness. I have no doubt your ex’s uncle was all you say and that there are many, many like him as well all over the world.

Please understand that anything I say about Jesuits is not aimed at the innocent like him. He and we are merely pawns. He, like we, is manipulated by those who have no compunction in doing so. The evil have always used the good to further their ends.

And oddly enough, the very consumerism he found so disheartening (as do many others, as do I) is largely a product of the concerted efforts of those a$$holes at the top of the pyramid, that twisted tangle of elites behind the NWO leading the rest of us down the yellow brick road, indeed.

Jesuits, Masons, and Jews, oh, my.

I have looked around the internet and note the Jesuits are being blamed for everything from, killing U.S. presidents, Sandy Hook shootings, sinking of the Titanic - you name it, someone is blaming the Jesuits. They helped start both world wars and started the Skull and Bones. They detonated the bomb at Hiroshima. The internet has become a huge source of disinformation. Unfortunately, people believe what they read and see on youtubes. The level of hatred this has spawned is enormous. Sorry gang, I don't adhere to: "If you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth."

Regardless of the accuracy of each individual claim, there is a good reason that the Jesuits are blamed for all of this. It’s called history and the Jesuit role in the horrors thereof is not the ravings of a bunch of tinfoil hat conpiracy kooks. Their fingers are in every pie because that is their role—to stir up discord and chaos in the service of their goal of endless war and strife.

This is not a fantasy spawned by the internet. It has been documented long, long before the internet came into existence and goes back hundreds of years. Disinformation is one of the chief calling cards of the Jesuits. Deceit is their specialty. They surely didn’t invent it, but they certainly have mastered it. There is a reason they have been kicked out of so many countries all over the world.

Again, the term Jesuitical is defined by the Oxford dictionary as pertaining to dissembling and equivocation in the manner of Jesuits.

People, hatred is evil. It is not of God.

Precisely. And Jesuits breed hatred as a matter of policy. They have no moral compass and anything and everything goes if it furthers their end. This is not a specious charge. It is in their own teachings.

I imagine the fact that the new pope is a Jesuit might be fanning the flames of controversy.. Why not look at what he does?

10 Things Pope Francis Has Done That Make Me Consider Being Catholic

Is Pope Francis Leaving Vatican At Night To Minister To Homeless?

Listen to what he says: Pope Francis Brainy Quotes

Feel free to discredit my opinion. I acknowledge I am biased and support what I believe is true. I hope you look for the good they do, it's out there, too. It's just harder to find.

Again, it goes back to awareness of the context. Without knowing what the Jesuits are about, you get one picture, the one that is being deliberately crafted. I freely admit that had I not known the back story, I would be singing his praises. But, like those who are aware of the workings and history of the Church, especially since Vatican II, I find him quite troubling, the veritable wolf in sheep’s clothing.

People are hearing what they want to hear, which is the point, but a close examination brings out a different picture. Believe me, if you poke around, you will find many Catholics who find him deeply troubling, too, especially given the Petrus Romano and Fatima III narratives.

As you say, there is much good that is mixed in with this bad and it has ever been thus. The problem is that the people doing the good are manipulated by the conscienceless psychopaths who pull the strings that turn the levers that make the world go in the dismal direction it is moving in.

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe


I can see you are firmly convinced in the evilness of the Jesuits and others.

You didn't seem to know what the spiritual exercises are about. All your research appears one sided IMHO. For your edification I am posting a link that will give you the opportunity to see the heart of Loyola's teaching.

St. Ignatius Writes to His Brethren: Fifty Selected Letters and Instructions of St. Ignatius Loyola

Maybe if you read them you will find alot of dirt to back up your claims.

AliceBleachWhite

So, as I've pointed out before, it's not enough for Christians to satisfy their Persecution Fetish in claiming persecution around the world at the hands on non-Christians and in turn rationalizing a justification for Reverse Persecution, but, there's requirement for Christians to persecute other Christians who are not the RIGHT KIND of Christians.

What's the old sales line?
Become a Christian and you'll get eternal life and forgiveness?
then
Oh, wait, you have to be the Right Kind of Christian?

It's all quite a bit Calvin Ball and of little concern if you just don't play the game period.

At least when self-described Christians commit atrocities, it is easy to see that their actions would be condemned by Christ's and Paul's teachings--in other words, they aren't really behaving as Christians. On the other hand, when Jews and Moslems kill people, they usually justify it through instructions written in their Talmud or Koran--both of which justify killing non-believers in plainly written instruction.