10 FACTS You Must Know About The Jesuits

reply to post by VoidWalker


Nice!

reply to post by burntheships

Not to mention that they were found to be wrong in some of their zeal.
You have heard of the Galileo Affair?

Just an instance in which the Catholic science "lovers' were wrong.

A lot of people don't understand the "Galileo Affair", which was FAR more about politics than it was about science.

The Roman Catholic church is, and has long been, interested in the truth. The truth about religion, the truth about God and the truth about our reality. Galileo ran afoul of the church, not because of science, as the church views science as a vital means to establish the truth about our reality, but because he couldn't defend his claims about heliocentrism, and when he wrote a book about the subject, at the request of the Pope, in which he was supposed to present both sides of the argument, he not only promoted heliocentrism and failed to prove his point, but he implied that the Pope agreed with him, which was political suicide.

After losing the support of his friend and patron Pope Urban, Galileo's fate was pretty much set, though he remained a dutiful Catholic until his death.

reply to post by DrunkYogi


what you mean?! lol

VoidWalker
reply to post by Elijah23

 

Exodus 20:4-5 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them..." They pray to Mary. Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us to pray to Mary, or any other person, but it tells us only to pray to God the Father.

Matthew 6:6 "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." They pray to Mary because they believe that she intercedes for us. This is not supported by any Scripture, but Scripture states that Jesus intercedes for us.

Hebrews 7:25 "Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them."

Romans 8:34 "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us." With out a doubt Mary was a holy woman. That is all.. She was not with out sin like the Catholics believe. Catholics believe that Mary never sinned. Again, this is not supported by any Scripture.

Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..." There is only one person that never sinned, and that person is Jesus.

Hebrews 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-yet was without sin."

1 John 3:5 "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." 1 Peter 2:22 "'He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.'"

They believe that Mary was always a virgin, and had no children other than Jesus.

Matthew 13:55-56 "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?"

Mark 3:31 "There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him."

Matthew 12:46 "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him." Catholics argue that when the Bible refers to brothers of Jesus, that these are spiritual brothers and not blood relatives.

There is much more I'd argue, but I think my point is made. Catholics are hypocrites. BUT I will apologize that I did throw Caths into a barrel with the rest. I am sorry that my statement offended you.

caths? is that the nickname for catholics now? I'll refer to you as prods then? bit disrepectful... please do not quote the bible to me as if it has any bearing on my statement to you. your statement was hate filled and ignorrant and blamed catholics (not humans who happened to be catholic... when a lot of them weren't catholic anyway...) on most of the wars and murders... which is a stretch... is America catholic? because most of the wars since the 50's have been started by protestant America.. no-one blames protestants for them because that would be retarded, the west has been mainly protestant since the reformation of the 16th and 17th century, lot of wars and murders since then mate.... and you said there that 'The Catholics' think that Mary was a virgin and had no other children, which yes, obviously they do, but are you saying that ALL other denominations of Christians do not??? because that is untrue, some do, some don't.... and Masons refer to each other as Brethren and Brothers also, do you think they're all related??... there are hundreds of 'sects' of christianity, there are multiple sects within catholicism alone.. how can you unify beliefs as Catholic and then Christian? and if you knew anything you would know that your beloved bible, the King James bible, was written by occultists in the 17th century... people who were FAR from traditional christians of either sect, if you read enough, instead of trolling posts, you would know that...

But to argue your nonsensical points I've attached two other quotes, which I believe are in your bible also... one which explains why she is the BLESSED virgin mary to Catholics and one which shows why she is seen as a virgin... so if you are sticking to your scripture then you would also recognise Mary as blessed and a virgin... so you can't blame Catholics for doing it... By the way, I am not a Catholic, I am a Christian & more, I know the good and bad from both sides of the faith as well as many other faiths, as I have spent my life studying them and not just accepting the one which was handed to me as you have clearly done... I HATE people who think they know enough that they can band people together into categories like you did, catholic politics you said? what is that exactly? look where your American politics has lead us... the brink of destruction, and instead of doing anything about it, you're on here spouting utter misinformed hatred at Catholics...

Take a look at yourself and let go of your hatred, people like you feel a need to preach because you need others to believe what you believe so that you can rest assured that you are right... pathetic, and any new world will only work without hate filled idiots like yourself... I'm not offended by your post, I'm angry with the fact that even now, with the world as it is, with all the information We have available on the internet, hell, available in book form on Amazon alone... that instead of people advancing their knwoledge, we've ended up with people like you who think you already know it all, finding there way onto the internet to hold others back with your misinformed crap... YOU are what's wrong with ATS, you turned a post about jesuits into a hate filled rant about Catholics... this will be my last post to yourself, educate yourself... liberate yourself... come into the 21st century by understanding ALL of your past, knowledge of the past is our inheritance and I promise you that all the answers are not in that one book... in fact very few of them are... you need a few other books just to understand what's actually being said in the bible, good luck finding them... I'll end my post as you did,
"There is much more I'd argue, but I think my point is made."



heres they quotes for you anyway...;


"Luke 1:48: for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed"

"Isaiah 7:14:Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

Stepping back and looking at what I know about the NWO, Agenda 21, how Obama feels about Catholics and all the crap I see slamming the Jesuits on the net. I am quite amazed that people expect the Jesuits to be involved with the development of the God-less world the elites have planned for us.

Who is fueling all this disinformation? If you missed that it is disinformation check out charles1952 debunking in a few post starting here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am no genius, but I am smart enough to know that TPTB absolutely love seeing someone else get the blame. I would not be one bit surprised if they have a hand in all this trashing.

I can understand that some may have just jumped on and missed his comments. I do that myself. His posts should have ended the thread. IMHO this should be in the HOAX bin.

I am not afraid to die for what I believe. I am afraid the sheeple won't figure it out and will buy the official story on why our heads will be rolling.

Start with Christianity, for example. One reason I suggest that is that it's managed to survive and flourish unlike, say, Mithraism.

I started there, found it lacking, mostly because of the human component.

Science has told us that what we have in the Bible today, is almost certainly what was originally written in over 99% of the verses and words. So, were the various writers lying, telling the truth, or fooled? I don't know of another option.

Charles, I am not sure that is true, will have to research it further. Without looking for the info, what I recall, only one of the gospels was written within 100 years of Christ's death, and then with the council of Nicea, much was left out, especially the coptic gospels.

I can't figure out what they'd get out of it by lying. They cut themselves off from the Romans and the Jews by taking those beliefs. They themselves got killed for their beliefs. If I remember correctly, only John died a natural death.

I'm open for discussion, of course, but it seems as though they really believed what they saw. Were they fooled, over and over? If so, how? Alien technology, magic tricks, what?

I am not sure any of them were writing what they saw, or just recording oral traditions. Especially in the old testament, many of the stories are shared by other believers.

You won't ever have absolute proof, forget that right now. You will only have evidence pointing one way or the other. You have to decide with what you're able to discover.

I don't have any trouble disbelieving in Poseidon. There just isn't enough evidence or logic to maintain that position. I could be wrong, of course, but I'm sure enough that I'm not going to start worshiping him.

You know that there is something, or Someone, out there. Please keep checking evidence and reason.

With respect,
Charles1952

I am not looking for absolute proof, just a belief that hasn't been translated a 100 times over. I do not have the skill to read the original language, but have seen enough contradictions to question many if not all of them. Especially here in the US, there is a church on every corner, and they all want to translate it to enrich their beliefs. There are many religions older than Christianity, and if we base it on longevity, who is to say they are not right?

With respect,
Bubba

reply to post by BubbaJoe

Dear BubbaJoe,

Those are serious and important points. I'm glad you mentioned them. You may not trust my references, so unless you want them, I'll let you check on your own. But I will make statements.

The best information I've found indicates that all of the Gospels were written before 90 A.D., and only John's was written after 70 A.D.

The Council of Nicea had nothing to do with what was in the Bible. It had two issues. One was to resolve a furious debate over the nature of Jesus, and the other was to determine the proper time to celebrate Easter.

I am not sure any of them were writing what they saw, or just recording oral traditions. Especially in the old testament, many of the stories are shared by other believers.

These things were recorded with thirty years of Christ's death. There wasn't any time for oral traditions, besides, they said they were witnesses to it.

I am not looking for absolute proof, just a belief that hasn't been translated a 100 times over.

By assembling pieces, and references from other writers of the period, the original text, almost completely, exists. There will be different ways to translate the original work, but nobody translates "white" as "black."

I do not have the skill to read the original language,

There are many who do. I'm willing to take the majority opinion of what a particular word might be translated as.

but have seen enough contradictions to question many if not all of them. Especially here in the US, there is a church on every corner, and they all want to translate it to enrich their beliefs.

The split in the churches is terrible and a shame. With the exception of Martin Luther, who wanted to toss out parts of the Bible, it's not so much a question of translation as where to put the emphasis and whether to give any weight to the writings of the earliest Christians and the people who studied it for centuries.

I'm really glad you're asking and thinking. I admire that.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by BubbaJoe

I am not looking for absolute proof, just a belief that hasn't been translated a 100 times over. I do not have the skill to read the original language, but have seen enough contradictions to question many if not all of them. Especially here in the US, there is a church on every corner, and they all want to translate it to enrich their beliefs. There are many religions older than Christianity, and if we base it on longevity, who is to say they are not right?

I understand your frustration very well. At ATS I see people quote things that differ from what is in my bible. I have Muslim relatives who quote the sayings of Jesus from the Koran that couldn't be found in any bible.

I hope this information is useful to you:

I have my grandmother's bible, a Douay–Rheims (still in print) that reads: "Dilligently Translated From Greek to Latin Vulgate" on one of the first pages. The Catholic Church credits St. Jerome with translating the bible beginning in 382. So as far as I can tell this is the oldest Roman Catholic bible available.


St. Jerome: The Perils of a Bible Translator

Douay–Rheims Bible

I pray your search for truth will be graced with discernment and strengthen your faith.

reply to post by BubbaJoe

Without looking for the info, what I recall, only one of the gospels was written within 100 years of Christ's death, and then with the council of Nicea, much was left out, especially the coptic gospels.

I assume that, by "coptic gospels", you are referring to the Gnostic Christian texts found in the Nag Hammadi library in Egypt. If so, what you are missing is that Gnostic Christianity is a different religion than Christianity, and you might as well be asking why there are no Muslim or Hindu texts in the Bible. They weren't "left out", they were never considered for inclusion, because they have nothing to do with Christianity, apart from a common central figure, Jesus Christ.

I am not sure any of them were writing what they saw, or just recording oral traditions.

I would refer you to Jesus and the Eyewitnesses, by Richard Bauckham, who makes a convincing statistical argument (too complex to summarize here) that the Gospels were written by eyewitnesses, apart from Gospel of Luke, which was written based on eyewitness reports. There is no "Chinese Telephone" game being run there.

VoidWalker
reply to post by DrunkYogi

 

what you mean?! lol

It was a nice story you told.

reply to post by Elijah23


I stand humbled! I have been working on my "hate" and I do believe I am getting better at recognizing my own ignorance. Thanks for your input lad!

reply to post by DrunkYogi


Thanks Yogi

reply to post by Elijah23


And you as well my friend need to look into your own hatred.. I noticed how much you hate things and I believe that you might just be one angry bugger. I acknowledge my faults and I have already apologized and spoken to those who I have offended and I do believe you make yourself just as much of a hater and "troll" as I! God bless and I do hope you can find time to forgive me for offending you so horribly.

reply to post by VoidWalker


Fair point, I apologise also for any offense caused, I have a large catholic family and live in a country that has a lot of hatred towards catholics, I am just tired of it in general... I feel we have to move past pointing out differences in each others faiths and labelling based on them and should instead be pointing out the similarities, as it is the similarities that bond us as Christians and as People, once we can recognise these and not the differences we can move on and deal with the problems we have in common. Focusing on our differences only benefits TPTB, not us, never us. I wish you no ill-will and I appreciate you apologising, I accept your apology and hope you accept mine, seeing that I meant no offense to you personally.

Elijah23

reply to post by Elijah23



I am tired of it as well. It is so wrong to see hatred based on misunderstandings persist.

God loves everybody and so should we.

"A house divided against itself will not stand." - Jesus

Glad to see the forgiveness, guys.

reply to post by Elijah23


OF COURSE I ACCEPT AN APOLOGY EVEN THOUGH I FEEL WHAT HAPPENED TO ME WAS WITHIN THE REALM OF WELL DESERVED! That being said I am glad to see we found reason.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

ATS is becoming a sick joke as well with posts like these popping up here and there.

Truly a sad response.

ATS has been like this. If you go back and read some of the threads from 2003 you will see that they are no different.

What is your motive?

charles1952

How many errors does a single article have to have before doubts begin to penetrate? Even the few statements that are true are either to the praise of the Jesuits, or are irrelevant.

Good question re the errors and the doubts. The true statements in the op being to the praise or being irrelevant is open for debate.

I say all this, of course, in the kindliest possible manner.

But of course.

Yep, because of the world political situation, the Pope suppressed, not abolished, the Jesuits for 41 years. There is a difference.

Perhaps, but if so, it seems to have been lost on Clement himself, given the papal bull, Dominus ac Redemptor Noster:

after a mature deliberation, we do, out of our certain knowledge, and the fulness of our apostolical power, SUPPRESS AND ABOLISH THE SAID COMPANY: we deprive it of all activity whatever, of its houses, schools, colleges, hospitals, lands, and, in short, every other place whatsoever, in whatever kingdom or province they may be situated; we abrogate and annul its statutes, rules, customs, decrees, and constitutions, even though confirmed by oath, and approved by the Holy See or otherwise; in like manner we annul all and every its privileges, indults, general or particular, the tenor whereof is, and is taken to be, as fully and as amply expressed in the present Brief as if the same were inserted word for word, in whatever clauses, form, or decree, or under whatever sanction their privileges may have been conceived.

www.reformation.org...

Is there anything significant about "Fact #1" that is true? Give me a source.

Despite your blandly passing off said abolition/suppression being because of "the world political situation," as if the Jesuits had no part in that situation, some might see significance in why they were being suppressed:

The bull justifies itself by a long and formidable list of charges against the Jesuits. Had this accusation proceeded from a Protestant pen it might have been regarded as not free from exaggeration, but coming from the Papal chair it must be accepted as the sober truth. The bull of Clement charged them with raising various insurrections and rebellions, with plotting against bishops, undermining the regnlar monastic orders, and invading pious foundations and corporations of every sort, not only in Europe, but in Asia and America, to the danger of souls and the astonishment of all nations. It charged them with engaging in trade, and that, instead of seeking to convert the heathen, they had shown themselves intent only on gathering gold and silver and precious jewels. They had interpolated pagan rites and manners with Christian beliefs and worship: they had set aside the ordinances of the Church, and substituted opinions which the apostolic chair had pronounced fundamentally erroneous and evidently subversive of good morals. Tumults, disturbances, violences, had followed them in all countries. In fine, they had broken the peace of the Church, and so incurably that the Pontificates of his predecessors, Urban VIII, Clements IX, X, XI, and XII, Alexanders VII and VIII, Innocents X, XI, XII, and XIII, and Benedict XIV, had been passed in abortive attempts to re-establish the harmony and concord which they had destroyed.

doctrine.org...

Certainly not the praise you were speaking of, but perhaps relevant all the same.

kyviecaldges
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

ATS is becoming a sick joke as well with posts like these popping up here and there.

Truly a sad response.

ATS has been like this. If you go back and read some of the threads from 2003 you will see that they are no different.

What is your motive?

Truth is my motive and a desire to see ATS to be a place where ignorance is denied. Claims made against the Jesuits have been discussed so often on ATS (search Jesuits if you doubt it). I am tired of hatred being spread on ATS based on lies.

When you get to this post maybe you will understand the effort it takes for one person to factually research and debunk the claims made:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Perhaps I was being harsh to the OP for I myself have posted bad information. I meant no disrespect to him. I hope he forgives me for such a negative comment.

My apologies to Sled, God's knows I've done the same or worse.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

Truth is my motive and a desire to see ATS to be a place where ignorance is denied. Claims made against the Jesuits have been discussed so often on ATS (search Jesuits if you doubt it). I am tired of hatred being spread on ATS based on lies.

For whatever reason, most of the Jesuit-specific disinfo can be traced back to fringe Seventh Day Adventists. I don't know what the connection is, but those are the guys who really get their panties in a bunch over the Jesuits. General hatred of Catholics and the Roman church is a lot more diversified, extending to many Protestant faiths, as well as non-Christians.