10 FACTS You Must Know About The Jesuits

charles1952
Ummm. . . Excuse me?

This is just my opinion, but I seem to have seen a lot of threads discussing the relative merits of Catholicism and Christianity. This one is on the Jesuits. I was really hoping that that the OP, or one of the dozens of people who supported him would come back and defend the material presented in the OP.

I think I'd rather see them come back and say "We were wrong, now we know better," than drift into some very familiar arguments.

But, of course, it's not my thread, so "Party on, Dude!"

I appreciate your posts on this topic.
I posted the article for others to read. Not saying they are 100% correct, or not.
I leave each person to come to their own conclusions after weighing all the info from the OP, and the members posting differing opinions.

I appreciate everyone who has shared here.

charles1952
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

Dear BubbaJoe,

I realize that I'm off-topic with this, but i feel compelled to mention it.

I consider myself agnostic at this point, and struggle every day to be the best human being I can be, so even though we differ in what might happen once we cross over, we most likely are striving for the same thing.

I have no problem with anyone being Agnostic. What I would ask of them, though, is a serious effort to find the truth as well as they can.

I do not mean to imply that this is your situation, but those who just say "I don't know," and stop looking for the answer are dodging the vital question of life. I trust they will keep looking until they find the answer.

With respect,
Charles1952

Charles, when I say I am agnostic, and this is my definition, I mean that I have no problem believing that there is something larger than I in the universe, I just don't know what it is. In the course of history, there have been many dieties, and diety figures, who is right? I don't know, and neither does anyone else with scientifically provable facts. I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but I seek knowledge everyday, not necessarily spiritual knowledge, but knowledge in general, many would be surprised how often that just the seeking took a turn to the spiritual side.

Christian Voice
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

I will disagree with you there. There is a major war against Christians in the US and abroad. It has nothing to do with hate or ignorance or intolerance from Christians it has to do with sinners insisting on defending their sins and Godless people running amok getting their way because Christians are getting more and more afraid to speak up for fear of losing a friend or hurting someone's feelings or being politically correct.

I know nothing about abroad, speaking only from the USA here. This is going to come across a bit harsh, but you feel, because others will not live the way you want them to, they are at war with you. If you are affronted by my lifestyle, I probably do not want you as a friend, if you hurt my feelings, they are hurt, but not due a public shaming, and politically correct, that is just another little word war that the pundits have wanted to start.

I like to drink, to some Christians, that is a sin. Do I have a defense for it, or will I defend it, yes I will. It is my life, allow me to live my life, as you want to be allowed to live yours. Me and a buddy want to swap spouses, how does that hurt you, but you might want to ask your Sunday school teacher what they did the night before. Two men or two women want to marry, and have a loving devoted marriage, how does that affect your heterosexual relationship at all?

There is no war against Christians in the US, there is an uprising against Christian hippocrissy.

reply to post by sled735

Dear sled735,

I appreciate anyone who can describe themselves as an author. I have never published anything, nor do I expect to. That level of effort and skill is very impressive.

I'm also very glad that you have such an active record on ATS, you are a valuable member.

Still further, I appreciate the mild tone you took in response to me.

I appreciate your posts on this topic.
I posted the article for others to read. Not saying they are 100% correct, or not.
I leave each person to come to their own conclusions after weighing all the info from the OP, and the members posting differing opinions.

I appreciate everyone who has shared here.

Removing, forgive me, the polite comments, the tautological, "I posted the article for others to read," and the rather unnecessary "I leave each person . . .," statement, since that is what everybody will do anyway, we have left:

Not saying they are 100% correct, or not.

If you truly have no idea which of the "facts" are true, if any, how did you come to write:

So I'm posting some information for those who may not be familiar with this topic.

This is information that I think needs to be brought to everyone's attention.

It is very important to open your eyes to what is, and has been, occurring over the years, and continues to this day.

Did the same person write that he wasn't claiming that any of the "facts" were true, but also write that this is information that people need to know about, and that these "facts" have been and are occurring to this day?

So which of the "facts" are you prepared to defend, if we need to know about them, they really did occur, and they are happening now?

I'm certainly willing to discuss the proof you might have for these "facts." I'm also willing to accept your statement that they really aren't facts and shouldn't have been posted as such. But to say that you were just listing a bunch of unsubstantiated claims, with the hope of smearing the Jesuits, and deny that you presented them as facts is self contradictory.

While it probably doesn't matter much to you, I would like to keep a level of respect for you. Show me that I've misunderstood, please.

With respect,
Charles1952

charles1952
[.

I find it telling that no one has returned to defend the Opening Post, even though the Opening Poster and other supporters have signed in since I made my comments.

Hi Charles,

Maybe this is just a thread on ATS, where some of us found
some truth in the OP.

I supported Sled, by commenting on some truths
I did find. They did not mimic the OP, and I dont
recall saying that the the content of the OP was
100% True.

Now here is a thought for you to ponder.

When Benjamin Netanyahu met up with the pope
over the weekend they exchanged gifts.

Bibi gave St. Francis a copy of a book on the Spanish Inquisition.

Israeli Leader Meets Pope Francis

Netanyahu presented the pontiff with a book about the Spanish inquisition

Accompanied by his wife Sara, Netanyahu gave the Pope a copy of a book about the Spanish inquisition written by his father, a prominent historian, bearing the inscription: “To His Holiness Pope Francis, great guardian of our common heritage.”

world.time.com...

Just saying in love, dont let this
get to you in such a serious manner,
that is how the Inquisition took its path.

This is ATS, we discuss things, and most of us try
and do so in love. While we may not agree all of the time,
and truth be told we all disagree at one time or another....

Anywho...hugs to all of you who participated in the thread,
I like to hear all of the views.

reply to post by burntheships

Netanyahu presented the pontiff with a book about the Spanish inquisition

I'm not sure I understand your point. According to the text you quoted there, the book was written by Netanyahu's father, an historian. The Roman Catholic church doesn't shirk its behaviour in the past -- the proceedings of the Spanish and Roman Inquisitions have been open to the public for over a hundred years (SPOILER ALERT -- from the meticulous documents that the church kept, we know that less than 10,000 people were executed in the Inquisitions, rather than the millions that some anti-Catholics like to claim,) and Pope John Paul II publicly apologized for the actions that the church took during that time.

So what's your point?

reply to post by adjensen


I meant nothing in particular, except that If Bibi and The Pope
can break bread together, I think we here on ATS should be able
to do the same?

reply to post by burntheships


I wasn't aware that there was a lot of Christian/Jewish hostility? Evangelical Christians are some of the biggest supporters of Israel that you're going to find, and Catholics don't hold to supersessionism in the same sense that some radical Protestants do.

Let's see a dinner with Netanyahu and Ayatollah Ali Hosseini Khamenei, that would be some real "lion lies down with the lamb" action we could all appreciate

adjensen
reply to post by burntheships

 

I wasn't aware that there was a lot of Christian/Jewish hostility? Evangelical Christians are some of the biggest supporters of Israel that you're going to find

Well, certainly your speaking to the choir here, while I am notCatholic, nor
am I a radical protestant. And certainly, no hostility on my part.

Just as all Catholics are not Jesuits, and all Jews are not Zionists...etc.

All said in love,
bts

reply to post by BubbaJoe

Dear BubbaJoe,

I'm happy for you. May I offer a suggestion?

I don't know, and neither does anyone else with scientifically provable facts.

There are at least two ways to approach this.

One, don't try to prove anything about something which is outside of nature, by using only the tools of science. They can only measure nature itself, so in one respect "scientifically" has no real meaning in proving anything about God.

Two, Science does have a place, however, in pointing out evidence we might have missed otherwise. Start with Christianity, for example. One reason I suggest that is that it's managed to survive and flourish unlike, say, Mithraism.

Science has told us that what we have in the Bible today, is almost certainly what was originally written in over 99% of the verses and words. So, were the various writers lying, telling the truth, or fooled? I don't know of another option.

I can't figure out what they'd get out of it by lying. They cut themselves off from the Romans and the Jews by taking those beliefs. They themselves got killed for their beliefs. If I remember correctly, only John died a natural death.

I'm open for discussion, of course, but it seems as though they really believed what they saw. Were they fooled, over and over? If so, how? Alien technology, magic tricks, what?

I have no problem believing that there is something larger than I in the universe, I just don't know what it is.

You won't ever have absolute proof, forget that right now. You will only have evidence pointing one way or the other. You have to decide with what you're able to discover.

I don't have any trouble disbelieving in Poseidon. There just isn't enough evidence or logic to maintain that position. I could be wrong, of course, but I'm sure enough that I'm not going to start worshiping him.

You know that there is something, or Someone, out there. Please keep checking evidence and reason.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by burntheships

Dear burntheships,

I thank you for your advice. I take that in the case of normal threads, and most abnormal threads. By the way, I'm sure you know that "Burn the ships" was ordered to prevent the soldiers thinking they could retreat. They had to continue fighting, "Victory or Death." Perhaps that's the advice I should be taking?

Let me try to explain my thinking, as to why I think this is such an abnormal thread. Remember that this is my thinking only, and not necessarily sled735's words.

The OP presented 10 items which were described as historical facts that the world (or at least ATS) needed to know about. Not ideas to be discussed, but facts to be disseminated. Since they've been removed by the staff, I can't recall precisely, but there were factual errors in eight or nine of them. Under normal circumstances, it would have been labeled as a Hoax, religious trolling, or perhaps, even a violation of T&C 15, "Posting: You will not Post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate." He may not have known it was inaccurate, but he says he doesn't know if it's true or not.

Just like you, I am all in favor of discussions. It takes at least two people to have a discussion. He claims they are historical facts (without providing any serious corroborating evidence), I point out that they are false, defame the Jesuits, and the entire Catholic religion (which he claims is controlled by the Jesuits).

I would expect some response other than, "Well, true or false, doesn't matter. Let's just leave them out there for the rest of the world to read." That's not ATS, at least as I understand it.

I love him, but I hate those obvious lies, and I was hoping that some steps would be taken to correct them.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by burntheships

Dear burntheships,

In the interest of continuing discussion, may we talk about the truths you found?

The Jesuits had great influence over NASA, and
still do. www.space.com...

The article has no mention of Jesuit influence over NASA at any time. It merely mentions that some of the Moon's craters were named after prominent Catholic figures. Not surprising since the Catholics, great lovers of science, were doing a large portion of the astronomy.

They infiltrated the Native American
tribes, setting out to convert them.
public.gettysburg.edu...

Infiltrate? How does a white European "infiltrate" a Native American tribe? In the instructions to the Jesuit missionaries (being a missionary has always been one of their main tasks) presented in your link, we find that they were to treat the Indians with great respect and courtesy, doing little services for them, and respecting their ways. Do you find it somehow reprehensible that priests of a religion would try to convert people who were assumed to have no religion, or a very primitive one?

Also one can find them currently at work in a few
ventures with conspiratorial air.
www.healthewv.net... Rpt-Final.pdf

Sorry, link doesn't work.

And, here is a recent look into a current even involving a
prominent Jesuit. I wont spoil the fun, peeps will just
need to look for themselves.
www.csicop.org...

The thrust of the article is about crazy and false anti-Jesuit threads. It does mention that a few Jesuits were involved in the Gunpowder plot, and they were influential in France several centuries ago, but that's about it for criticism of the Jesuits.

With respect,
Charles1952

charles1952
reply to post by burntheships

 

Dear burntheships,

I thank you for your advice. I take that in the case of normal threads, and most abnormal threads. By the way, I'm sure you know that "Burn the ships" was ordered to prevent the soldiers thinking they could retreat. They had to continue fighting, "Victory or Death."

Well, I had a different thought in mind when I contemplated my user name,
but since you did not ask...

I point out that they are false, defame the Jesuits, and the entire Catholic religion (which he claims is controlled by the Jesuits).

Going by the number of flags, there are 30+ members that perhaps
disagree that all 'charges' are false.

reply to post by burntheships

Dear burntheships,

Going by the number of flags, there are 30+ members that perhaps disagree that all 'charges' are false.

That's wonderful! I'm glad to hear it! Now if even one of those people would care to show what evidence they had for believing those things to be true, we could have a discussion. But if they simply believe it, and ignore contrary evidence, they are no longer just ignorant of the facts, they are close-minded (and some other words of opprobrium).

By the way. Did you find anything in your link showing that the Jesuits had influence over NASA?

With respect,
Charles1952

charles1952
Not surprising since the Catholics, great lovers of science, were doing a large portion of the astronomy.

Not to mention that they were found to be wrong in some of their zeal.
You have heard of the Galileo Affair?

en.wikipedia.org...


Just an instance in which the Catholic science "lovers' were
wrong.

The corruption that runs between NASA and the Wheeling Jesuit
University is no secret, it is easily found if one just looks.

www.wvgazette.com...

www.wdtv.com...

www.insidehighered.com...

Court records show investigators believe McAteer, who has been vice president of the school since 2005, and the school fraudulently billed expenses to federal grant programs or cooperative agreements from 2005 through 2011.

The sworn affidavit by an agent — who works out of the Goddard Space Center in Greenbelt, Md. — said those expenses range from McAteer's salary — which surged from $130,300 in 2006 to $230,659 by 2008 — to cellphones, computers, technical support and salaries for other staff, including a secretary in McAteer's Shepherdstown private law office.

In examining five NASA grants, the agent found the duties and salaries of individuals "did not, in any way, benefit the substantive work being done on the federal award projects."
usatoday30.usatoday.com...

Not to mention that WJU has been fined for injustice concerning coverup's of abuse



usatoday30.usatoday.com...

Not to mention that WJU has been fined for injustice concerning coverup's of abuse.

Last week, justice taught the Jesuits a $19,600,000 lesson about covering up Jesuit sodomy. The Jesuit hierarchy never seems to understand that openness and reform promote peace and justice much more effectively than Jesuit secrecy and cover-up. Jesuit silence, cover-up, and stonewall secrecy too often result in lawsuits, campus raids by law enforcement officers, and multi-million-dollar settlement costs. Where do all those Jesuit dollars come from anyway?

savewju.blogspot.com...


Let Him Prey: High-Ranking Jesuits Helped Keep Pedophile Priest Hidden

Fessio runs the Ignatius Press, a Catholic publishing house based in the Sunset District that is the primary English-language publisher of the pope's writings. He and McGuire shared a reputation for doctrinal orthodoxy. McGuire, for his part, was a cleric of worldwide renown, functioning as adviser and confessor to Mother Teresa. While family members considered reporting the abuse to secular authorities, Fessio urged them to stay quiet until he could confer with Jesuit higher-ups.

www.sfweekly.com...

Now, in light of the above, absolutely yes I would consider that these
kinds of predators targeting Native American Tribes to
teach them 'their' ways a danger.

Infiltrate? How does a white European "infiltrate" a Native American tribe? In the instructions to the Jesuit missionaries (being a missionary has always been one of their main tasks) presented in your link, we find that they were to treat the Indians with great respect and courtesy

I have read much to the opposite.

In any case, I think that will conclude my rebuttal, and if you would
like to create a new thread, perhaps one where you wish
to defend the Jesuits, I would participate.

Blessings to all,
bts

sorry double post

reply to post by burntheships

Dear burntheships,

There are several things wrong at Wheeling Jesuit University. Some of them can be connected to the Jesuits and their policies. Your point is not demonstrated by the McAteer scandal, however. He was the president of the school and did the covering up by which he profited. He is not a Jesuit. He is a private practice attorney. The school is included primarily because of his efforts to cover things up.

In any event, that ugly scandal doesn't show that that the Jesuits have any influence over NASA. (Currently the board of directors contains 30 members, 4 of whom are Jesuits.)

Concerning your link to the Native Americans. It is from your link that I took the instructions to the missionaries that they were to be respectful to the natives, etc., etc. I believe that you have read much to the opposite. Why not link to that, then?

And, finally, the pedophile scandals. They were terrible, and wrong. Do not think it was exclusively, or even mainly, Jesuits or Catholic priests. There is evidence to show otherwise.

From your responses, it appears that no one is willing to defend the OP's statements. Unfortunately, the thread has gone to "OK, the OP is full of baloney, we'll find other claims to make against the Jesuits."

You ask me to start a thread defending the Jesuits? Why? There have been nearly no successful attacks against them here. What is there to defend against?

Me vicit acie. Veritas Vicit.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


As they say, None are more hopelessly enslaved than
those who falsely believe they are free; dissimulare abuti

How happy are the people who know the joyful shout!
They walk in the light of your presence, ADONAI

charles1952
reply to post by burntheships

 

Dear burntheships,

Going by the number of flags, there are 30+ members that perhaps disagree that all 'charges' are false.

That's wonderful! I'm glad to hear it! Now if even one of those people would care to show what evidence they had for believing those things to be true, we could have a discussion. But if they simply believe it, and ignore contrary evidence, they are no longer just ignorant of the facts, they are close-minded (and some other words of opprobrium).

By the way. Did you find anything in your link showing that the Jesuits had influence over NASA?

With respect,
Charles1952

Here is a lovely wee book about the Jesuits. I don't agree with his surmising at the end though!

Tupper Sausey

Rulers of Evil

www.granddesignexposed.com...

reply to post by BubbaJoe

Right on brother. I do appreciate your openness to discuss such a topic. I too have fallen to a crowd of Christians once that were just wretched horrible people. I know it's not my place to judge, but their own hate and disgust towards others is what drove me away. I found a good church about the time I was giving up on God and it has helped. It was a catholic organization that I found my hate towards after this. I couldn't stand how the judged and passed judgment. If it was for their gain it was always ok even if it was immoral. I watched them walk a homeless man out of church because he wasn't dressed nicely enough. This was my deal breaker. I couldn't do this anymore. I walked a Godless life for years because of this church. I finally found a church once my ex left and I lost my son to her. I needed something and it was my faith. It is nice to have once again. I truly hope you life continues to bless you with happiness and keep you from the trenches of hate like so many of us fall into daily. Stay strong!