Longevity, vegans, meat, booze, and smoking

reply to post by beezzer


I think you are mistaking your personal idea of what it means to 'enjoy' life as being what that means -- or should mean -- for others. As noted elsewhere in the thread, most vegans I know are vegans because of a moral belief. I don't know any vegans who feel some sort of begrudging obligation to keep the diet. Therefore, in doing what feels right, and practicing what they believe, they are enjoying life. I am not a vegan, but I don't think the vegans I know are missing out in some way by not eating meat or dairy. Likewise, I do not drink alcohol or smoke tobacco. I have done both those things in the past, and it doesn't work for me. Tobacco makes my lungs feel crummy at the gym the next day, and booze makes me feel crappy the following day.

So yes, I think we should enjoy life, and if you want to rock that steak/scotch/smoke combo, that's great -- but I wouldn't mistake other people who make different choices as being somehow deprived. We are not.

boncho
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

I skipped through most of it, focusing mostly on the yummy parts. Seeing animals getting pegged in the forehead and tossed around, or put into grinders doesn't do anything for me (besides make me want to eat pepperoni).

It's like watching ice cream being made. No one ever bitches about the poor ice! Bastards.

edit on 30-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)

Really??????

You were able to watch that and not be affected??

I think your either messin with me or your a psychopath, people who have worked in abbotiors have watched that and been disgusted.

I enjoy your posts and humour but I seriously doubt if you had watched it you would be jesting about it.
Find 90 min over the next few days and check it out

boncho
reply to post by VoidHawk

Heres the line they NEVER broadcast.
"Proof, NORMAL food is loaded with Insecticide, Pesticide, Herbicide, but organic food has none of these"
They NEVER say that, but that IS why we eat organic food.

 

But organic food has all of these:

When people are buying organic food, they often make the incorrect assumption that there are no pesticides. It's true that organic production often uses fewer dangerous chemicals, but certain pesticides are allowed.

www.npr.org...

"Organically grown" food is food grown and processed using no synthetic fertilizers or pesticides. Pesticides derived from natural sources (e.g., biological pesticides) may also be used in producing organically grown food. Increasingly, some consumers are purchasing organically grown and processed foods as a way to reduce their exposure to synthetic pesticides and fertilizers. Many supermarkets now stock organic products for their consumers. Ask your grocer about organic food and its availability at your store.

www.epa.gov...


Keep in mind, under the classification system that exists, e.coli and also cyanide are considered "organic".

Boncho, those of us who take it seriously are fully aware of what happened when our corrupt governments changed the laws, thats why we have to be careful from whom we buy our food. We deal only with certain growers, it does mean we sometimes get bad years because of weather etc, but it IS possible to avoid the poisons.
As for anything in the mainstream outlets, forget it, the only thing organic is the word on the packet.

reply to post by beezzer


When i used to buy a chicken (free range), Id cook it, eat it, boil the bones, make a stock for soup, then feed the bones to the dogs. I work in customer care at Macdonalds, I throw away pounds of chicken breast meat that customers have wasted every day, this breaks my heart. Please dont judge me on my choice of job, jobs are hard to come by at the moment and if people want to eat this stuff then its up to them, no one is forced. The waste kills me, i throw away full bottles of mineral water, pounds and pounds of fries, people are so ungrateful.
My household has recently become pescatarian, im a single mum and theres just me and my 14 year old daughter, and this "phase" she has chosen is now in its 5th month. and I have so say, its not so bad, I dont really miss meat, but i would definitly miss the fish.
I also have happy bowels

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Bob, I can't really argue with you. I eat meat. I respect the kills. Does that make me a bad person?

Maybe.

I can honestly say that perhaps I'm not as evolved as others. But then again, I choose not to be.

reply to post by boncho

But organic food has all of these:

Maybe. Maybe not.

I have a rather large community garden and they most certainly do not have those. This is true for some of the produce in the local food co-op and farmer's market as I am personally familiar with those gardens and growers.

But you're right to be skeptical of the 'Organic' label. It's similar to 'Free Range'. Different organizations have different standards as to what it actually means.

Folks, I'm not out to disparage vegans or vegitarians or piscatarians.

My main thrust was about everything in moderation and just enjoy your life. Live it as you see fit. I have friends who enjoy the vegan lifestyle. I respect their choice, they begrudgingly respect mine.

We have so little time on this planet. I already spend too much time wasting it on politics.

Live your life. Love everyone. Charge that hill!

Live life to the fullest.

No regrets.

reply to post by thedoctorswife

The waste kills me, i throw away full bottles of mineral water, pounds and pounds of fries, people are so ungrateful.

I lived in a commune for a few years with 'freegans'. Dumpster diving was a regular practice. I was really put off on the idea at first. Naturally. I was absolutely blown away by both the amount and the quality of what was thrown away! Take Trader Joes for example. Almost all of their products are packaged. They regularly fill their dumpsters with unopened goods, oftentimes not even expired. It's nuts. I once grabbed a huge perfectly fine asian style lamp out of the dumpster of Cost Plus World Market, and about 300 magazines from the dumpster of Barnes and Nobles. I was much more picky than the freegans with what I would eat this way, but they literally sustained themselves food wise this way.

reply to post by beezzer

Folks, I'm not out to disparage vegans or vegitarians or piscatarians.

My main thrust was about everything in moderation and just enjoy your life. Live it as you see fit.

I see that now. Thanks for the clarification. Your OP certainly seemed to read to me that veggie eaters were doing so at the expense of life enjoyment. So again, thanks for the clarification on your intent.

My belief is that a person who worry to much will instead create the nocebo effect in the body and create unhealth. I am a person who do diet wise everything wrong but still I am somewhat ok. I was not always but that was because I was depressed. That mental depression really screwed up my body for a couple of years.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


I do get the moral issues. More research in artificially created meat. This is a technical problem that should have been solved long ago.

But even if we get total artificial meat we still will need to kill some animals since if we stopped the habitats would explode with animals temporary and you would get starvation in the habitats since there are very few natural predators due to our moving of animals. Also what do we do with the domesticated animals like cows and sheep?

Also I do not 100% buy the vegan food is always made organically and is really morally better at not harming the environment. I am pretty sure there can be a lot of damage done there too with mass production if you are not buying it locally since it shipped all over the world and big corporations trying to make the last % of money. Genetic modified vegan food?

Bob Sholtz
reply to post by beezzer

 

i am vegan for ethical reasons (why kill and cause suffering when it isn't necessary?), but i have studied the nutritional benefits as well.

A good reason.

beyond these reasons, there are more big picture reasons that make the current omnivore diet unethical. world hunger could be ended if america alone gave up meat. that's over 7 million human lives saved from starvation each year. the amount of water and grain it takes for a single pound of beef is enormous. it is not sustainable. so while there are very real health reasons for going vegan, there is a stronger case to be made because of the amount of suffering that the standard diet causes.

I do not think starvation is a good argument for not eating meat. Starvation can be fixed if humanity decide it should be fixed and do not selfishly look at the cost and you can still eat meat like cow, pig and chicken. With the right equipment we can even use desalted ocean water to irrigate deserts (not sand desert).

There is more money to be made from dumping eatable food in the western world (maybe not always visible looking perfect food but not unhealthy) creating a shortage and then making money on the shortage.

A good argument that I could make for not eating meat can be made that people are cutting down forests to make room for meat producing for instance in South America.

I am more concerned about the fishing in our seas where we are overfishing and not giving nature time to grow back what we remove.

pass me the whiskey and the ciggys 8 more years of this noooooooooo i only eat fish or chicken twice a week but i enjoy a drink and a funny ciggy but 8 more years of this planet no thanks .

i am bored rotten with it already pass the revolver someone

reply to post by beezzer


Beezer you are one wise rabbit. In the overall scheme of things I am less concerned about living an extra 8 years as I am about enjoying the years I have here. And letting those around me do the same regardless of their preference of food.
However if I could make my last 8 years (whatever age that might be) more enjoyable by being healthier in general I'd be down with that.

reply to post by beezzer


Hence my signature and motto here at ATS.

'Nuff said.

reply to post by beezzer



Eight years you say ?

Mmm hmm... interesting.


*puff puff*

*sip*



Uh huh...



*puff... puff puff*

*sip*

reply to post by beezzer


Love the hat Beezzer, and a happy Chrisgtmas to you and yours from me and mine.

Actually I don't have any desire to live past a reasonable age and sincerely hope to die in my own bed by not waking up. I have no intention of changing my diet to brown rice and lentils simply because I believe that if one has good food that one looks forward to eating, then its a gift to be relished and shared. Can't wait till Christmas as the menu is already planned.

One of my favourite restaurants is a vegetarian one in Totnes which is marvellous but having watched on tv two teams experimented on by one eating meat and the other a vegetarian diet for six months, the result was simply that the strength had been maintained by the meat eaters whilst the people fed only on the vegetarian diet were actually slightly weaker. They did not do a health check however.

i am a chef, so i have to eat lots of different things.

i tend to eat meat alot. which is fine. the wife and i usually have a 6 oz ribeye for dinner about once a week.
then there is chicken, pork and fish dinners.

the others are chinese dishes or we go out. usually for a steamed fish, thai-style.

i have been to an amazing chinese, vegetarian restaurant.
the dishes were beautiful, shrimps that looked like shrimps, abalone, chicken, pork and everything looked real and tasted close to the real thing. good stuff!
it's expensive and far enough away, that it keeps us from going there, too many times.

i really can't give up meat, tho, even for more years.

reply to post by LittleByLittle


For me its not the actual meat eating thats the issue, we are omnivores, a healthy diet should consist of some meat.
For me as an animal lover (both as fellow occupants of the earth and as a tasty roast) its the way they are treated while they live and the way they die, usually in terror and agony, in most cases what happens amounts to torture.

Awareness is a great thing, 2 television specials by jamie oliver on Pigs and Chickens made a massive difference to peoples eating habits in the UK and led to the closure of a ton of battery hen and sow farms.

The glib indifference Ive seen on this thread has depressed me

beezzer
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

Bob, I can't really argue with you. I eat meat. I respect the kills. Does that make me a bad person?

Maybe.

I can honestly say that perhaps I'm not as evolved as others. But then again, I choose not to be.

This is the big difference between you and most other people who take massive issue with the vegan lifestyle. You clearly state that you respect the kill. Most people who consume meat and animal products do not. They don't care, as long as they get what they want and their sense of entitlement is satisfied. Also most people are too self absorbed, selfish and unwilling to evolve on any level or challenge their beliefs to watch a film like Earthlings. Anyone who isn't affected by that is either telling lies or has some kind of personality disorder that excludes any kind of feeling of empathy.

The op stated that the life extension that might be expected is 8 years....8 years of being here doing what you want to do and being with your people and that's not worth it? Really? For a few bits of meat? I don't get it.

I would also like to point out that there are possibly two parallel arguments here...one about the ethics of consuming meat however it's slaughtered, and one about the abuse that routinely takes place in the meat industry. And don't be naive...it's an industry...it exists to make money, not to make you happy or make you healthy...it's all about the money.