Longevity, vegans, meat, booze, and smoking

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Everyone has their own take on life.

Bless you and your take. I respect it. Just because it is different than mine, doesn't make it wrong. Just different.

I can only hope that you can respect my decision and my take on life.

reply to post by beezzer

i am vegan for ethical reasons (why kill and cause suffering when it isn't necessary?), but i have studied the nutritional benefits as well.

the majority of vegans are short on key nutrients and nutrient ratios that, when consumed properly, can theoretically increase longevity beyond an extra 8 years. (i am speaking of B12 intake, and B6/B3 ratios at 4/1 or less) the diet also does more than extend life; it dramatically increases the quality of life.

beyond these reasons, there are more big picture reasons that make the current omnivore diet unethical. world hunger could be ended if america alone gave up meat. that's over 7 million human lives saved from starvation each year. the amount of water and grain it takes for a single pound of beef is enormous. it is not sustainable.

so while there are very real health reasons for going vegan, there is a stronger case to be made because of the amount of suffering that the standard diet causes.

smoking a cigarette will primarily damage your own body alone; while eating a steak will decrease your health and cause massive amounts of suffering to both humans and animals.

there is a great book on the subject called "eat like you care". it's worth a read.

reply to post by beezzer

I am still loving me meat! I only eat it on weekends (unless fish)
due to maintaining weight. I am not someone who is fortunate to
eat what the bloody hell I want & NOT gain a pound. So yes my
diet works for me to eat extremely healthy through the week & eat
whatever I want on Sat & Sun night! So I do look forward to the weekend
B-BQUE!!!

Cheers
Ektar

reply to post by boncho


Just to bring balance to the force.

She's a strict vegetarian. A vegan.

I'd take Olivia Wilde over bacon.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by beezzer

 

In regards to vegans specifically your premise is predicated on health being the important factor. It's my understanding vegans generally do so for moral reasons. As such, for them their diet is bringing them enjoyment (or what have you).

I myself am a vegetarian on moral grounds. Health is just a bonus. Doing what I personally believe is the right thing to do ethically speaking, brings fulfillment to my short stay on this tiny blue dot.

edit on 30-11-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

Well said.
This is just like the rubbish thats spewed about organics. Here's the two lines most commonly broadcast on the msm in the uk.
"Proof, organic food does not taste better than NORMAL food"
"Proof, Normal food has just as many vitamins as organic food"
See what they're doing? They're fooling the masses into thinking its about vitamins and taste.

Heres the line they NEVER broadcast.
"Proof, NORMAL food is loaded with Insecticide, Pesticide, Herbicide, but organic food has none of these"
They NEVER say that, but that IS why we eat organic food.

As for saying eight years is not worth worrying about, well just you wait untill your told you've only got a year to live!
That means just one more year with your kids!!! Suddenly you'll see things a bit differently.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by boncho

 

Just to bring balance to the force.

She's a strict vegetarian. A vegan.

I'd take Olivia Wilde over bacon.

Edit: holy smokes I didn't realize the image was that big. Gonna upload a smaller one!!

edit on 30-11-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

NO DUDE, LEAVE IT!!!

reply to post by beezzer

Everyone has their own take on life. Bless you and your take. I respect it. Just because it is different than mine, doesn't make it wrong. Just different. I can only hope that you can respect my decision and my take on life.

perhaps, but freedom to practice your "take" on life extends ONLY until it begins to end the freedom of others, yes?

your position supports killing for personal pleasure, it is not necessary by any means, so why continue with it?

reply to post by VoidHawk


I live every day as if it is my last.

I live, I love, every day.

I make every day special and memorable.

I don't want another day or a year, I want a thousand days, a thousand years with my wife and children.

VoidHawk

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by boncho

 

Just to bring balance to the force.

She's a strict vegetarian. A vegan.

I'd take Olivia Wilde over bacon.

Edit: holy smokes I didn't realize the image was that big. Gonna upload a smaller one!!

edit on 30-11-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

NO DUDE, LEAVE IT!!!

Still not better than bacon.

But sweet.

beezzer

VoidHawk

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by boncho

 

Just to bring balance to the force.

She's a strict vegetarian. A vegan.

I'd take Olivia Wilde over bacon.

Edit: holy smokes I didn't realize the image was that big. Gonna upload a smaller one!!

edit on 30-11-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

NO DUDE, LEAVE IT!!!

Still not better than bacon.

But sweet.

I thought rabbits ate grass!

Vegans.
I know a few. Some are vegan because they think its cool, and its those that give the rest a bad name. But as a poster above said, most are vegan because they dont like the idea of eating little fluffy bunnies

beezzer
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Everyone has their own take on life.

Bless you and your take. I respect it. Just because it is different than mine, doesn't make it wrong. Just different.

I can only hope that you can respect my decision and my take on life.

I have no issues with you or your take on life, your OK Beezer

As stated Im also a carnivore, do me a favour and check out the doco if you havent already. Im not expecting it to change your eating habits but it may make you look at it a bit differently.

Its not just food, it goes into scientific testing, pets and clothing, it is well worth a look

reply to post by beezzer


Thanks for this thread Beezer, looks like a good discussion. I'll restrain myself now, as I guess I'm one of the posters who pester everyone about veganism, so I'll back off this thread for a day or two and maybe then post a little.

But what I wanted to say is you don't have to go vegan or vegetarian totally, but we do have some great recipes for an occasional meal. Having meat at every meal is not as much a need as a habit. I loved meat for a long long time, loved it like a brother. So I've been there.

That said, please, someone, anyone, try my lentils and rice recipe, with a day or two of eating the leftovers, and let me know what you think. I think eating it three times might be needed, as our body and tastebuds have to settle into something new like wading into the shallow end of the pool. But I've got to tell you guys, I've been eating it for 25 years maybe three times a week on average - some weeks lots more - and every time I dish it out I can't wait to start eating, and the eating is fantastic, and I have to restrain myself from eating too much more when I pack the leftovers away after they cool down a bit. I think it fulfills all the needed nutrients that vegans need, except for vitamin C (which we here at ATS have an abundance of information on). But anyway, it's hopefully good for a change of pace.

I lol at the poster who compared the 51-year-old health expert and the 51-year-old hot-and-in-the-news chef. The health expert looks very dehydrated, and she might not be drinking enough water.

Bob Sholtz
perhaps, but freedom to practice your "take" on life extends ONLY until it begins to end the freedom of others, yes?

I just don't consider elk or any other food source as an equal. A fault on my part? Maybe.

your position supports killing for personal pleasure, it is not necessary by any means, so why continue with it?

I don't kill for pleasure. I kill to eat. I respect the animal, say a small prayer of thanks after EVERY kill. I don't torture. I am not cruel just to kill in order to kill.

boncho
I come from a long line of miserable, insufferable alcoholics blessed with long life. I am going to stick to genetics here and stay within our family's chosen parameters.

We all figure it's the alcohol keeping us alive.

edit on 30-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)

LOL...there is a lot of truth in that. My grandmother was no vegan, by any stretch of the imagination. Smoked like a chimney all the way to her 94th birthday when she came lo live with us and at 94 she died. My friends mother died in her 60s from lung cancer, lived a very clean life too. Sweet woman, granny was rough and could be mean, she could stand up to anyone in an argument with clever come backs. Cursed like nobodies business and shot craps, ran poker games...she never drank though.

In short, i agree there is a genetic link or maybe just being lucky. Smoking cigarettes is certainly NOT a good idea so that is not my implication. The woman was as tough as nails though. Personally, i think she may have went over a hundred, but at 94 i dont think she really cared.

If i were to go vegan it would be more for my own reasons. I think the main thing is to lay off the junk food and it is a shame that lower income people dont have many options. After all, a snickers bar costs only a dollar.

reply to post by VoidHawk

Heres the line they NEVER broadcast.
"Proof, NORMAL food is loaded with Insecticide, Pesticide, Herbicide, but organic food has none of these"
They NEVER say that, but that IS why we eat organic food.

But organic food has all of these:

When people are buying organic food, they often make the incorrect assumption that there are no pesticides. It's true that organic production often uses fewer dangerous chemicals, but certain pesticides are allowed.

www.npr.org...

"Organically grown" food is food grown and processed using no synthetic fertilizers or pesticides. Pesticides derived from natural sources (e.g., biological pesticides) may also be used in producing organically grown food. Increasingly, some consumers are purchasing organically grown and processed foods as a way to reduce their exposure to synthetic pesticides and fertilizers. Many supermarkets now stock organic products for their consumers. Ask your grocer about organic food and its availability at your store.

www.epa.gov...


Keep in mind, under the classification system that exists, e.coli and also cyanide are considered "organic".

reply to post by boncho


Well when you replied to me you must only have been 5 min in, tell me your still eating that peperoni stick at about 45 min LOL.

I didnt eat meat for days after watching that doco, on day 3 cracked and had me some tandoori, havent looked back.
It didnt turn me veggie but it has made me more aware, I try to get free range meat (luckily not that hard here) Ive stopped buying leather and I wont pay to go in anywhere that has animals caged.

If everyone makes 1 or 2 small changes it would add up to a massive collective change that could make a huge difference

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


I skipped through most of it, focusing mostly on the yummy parts. Seeing animals getting pegged in the forehead and tossed around, or put into grinders doesn't do anything for me (besides make me want to eat pepperoni).

It's like watching ice cream being made. No one ever bitches about the poor ice! Bastards.

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by boncho

 

It didnt turn me veggie but it has made me more aware, I try to get free range meat (luckily not that hard here) Ive stopped buying leather and I wont pay to go in anywhere that has animals caged.

If everyone makes 1 or 2 small changes it would add up to a massive collective change that could make a huge difference

Good advice. I prefer free range as well and look for that. As an aside, i used to love my fish tanks but was so dicouraged when i found that getting "tank raised" was so difficult..."too much trouble", "too much inbreeding" etc. so i just gave it up. My opinion is that this is where the research should be concentrated. Providing the animals with good lives and learn to raise fish in a pristine environment so as not to take them from the ocean. We have the knowledge and the resources, but the funding is not there. imop.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


I've pretty much seen all the documentaries. I agree Earthlings is a must watch. It's divided into factory farming, vivisection, and the fur industry if I recall correctly. You would hope it would have impact but its really trendy to make a joke out of these matters.

" No one ever bitches about the poor ice! Bastards."

Case in point.

reply to post by VoidHawk

See what they're doing? They're fooling the masses into thinking its about vitamins and taste.

You made some really good observations. A big fat red herring. Which is what I felt in the OP, whether it was intended or not.

reply to post by beezzer

I don't kill for pleasure. I kill to eat. I respect the animal, say a small prayer of thanks after EVERY kill. I don't torture. I am not cruel just to kill in order to kill.

you eat animal products because you find them tasty. a pleasure. these same products cause suffering and a loss of life. both the loss of life and suffering are unnecessary because humans have no biological need for animal products.

it is therefore accurate to say that you do kill for pleasure, or at least support it. taking life and causing suffering purely because of taste.

i would post videos of what happens in the food industry, but it would violate the t&c of the site.

I just don't consider elk or any other food source as an equal. A fault on my part? Maybe.

the question of immediate importance is not "are they equal?" but "can they suffer?"