Leading geneticist says we are a hybrid of Pigs and Chimps

reply to post by soficrow


Are AMH the result of hybridization? Absolutely. It shows up in our DNA with limited Neanderthal and or Denisovan admixture. There's not the remotest hint of admixture or hybridization of any relative of the pig with any relative of the chimpanzee. this would require a fertile hybrid being produced from a mating of animals not just from two different genera, or two different families, but two different orders. Entirely possible, McCarthy says, despite the fact that there is not a single example -- not one -- of an interordinal hybrid known from nature. Anywhere. That includes animals, plants, fungi, and so on.

peter vlar
reply to post by soficrow

 

....there is not a single example -- not one -- of an interordinal hybrid known from nature. Anywhere. That includes animals, plants, fungi, and so on.

Just for starters - have to take a call.

Resolution among major placental mammal interordinal relationships with genome data imply that speciation influenced their earliest radiations

Skeletogenesis in sea urchin interordinal hybrid embryos.

www.macroevolution.net...

This is the guys website... Sure seems like a credible academic source.

soficrow
reply to post by flyingfish

 

a wild boar would most certainly eat a chimp, not try and mate with it!

In fact, females offering sexual favours to male predators is a recognized survival tactic. Cross-species hybridization in the wild occurs with some regularity. The progeny commonly are NOT sterile but do tend to have reduced reproductive abilities. ...Read the references!

I have, and I have talked to experts in the field.
Here is a quote from one.

For the present, I ask the reader to reserve judgment concerning the plausibility of such a cross. I'm an expert on hybrids and I can assure you that our understanding of hybridization at the molecular level is still far too vague to rule out the idea of a chimpanzee crossing with a nonprimate.

Anyone who speaks with certainty on this point speaks from prejudice, not knowledge.

No systematic attempts to cross distantly related mammals have been reported.

However, in the only animal class (Pisces) where distant crosses have been investigated scientifically, the results have been surprisingly successful (399.6, 399.7, 399.8). In fact, there seems to be absolutely nothing to support the idea that interordinal crosses (such as a cross between a primate and a nonprimate) are impossible, except what Thomas Huxley termed "the general and natural belief that deliberate and reiterated assertions must have some foundation."

reply to post by soficrow


The key part of my statement must have been missed. It was the part that stated " in nature". Your second link was done in a lab not nature. It also was between two types of sea urchin. It wasn't two creatures from completely separate families. The first link is speculative at best.

Conclusion The narrow temporal window within which some placental divergences took place suggests that inconsistencies and limited resolution of the mammalian tree may have their natural explanation in speciation processes such as lineage sorting, introgression from species hybridization or hybrid speciation. These processes obscure phylogenetic analysis, making some parts of the tree difficult to resolve even with genome data.

reply to post by flyingfish


You're quoting McCarthy. lol ...FYI - I am not and have not spoken "with certainty" - I have just said this is a reasonable hypothesis.

reply to post by peter vlar


As I said, I had to take a call (go offline). And again, I am not saying this hypothesis is proven, just that it's worth investigating. In that light, here is a bit more research to consider.

Hybrids between common and Antarctic minke whales are fertile and can back-cross

This study clearly demonstrates, for the first time, that hybrids between minke whale species may be fertile, and that they can back-cross. Whether contact between these species represents a contemporary event linked with documented recent changes in the Antarctic ecosystem, or has occurred at a low frequency over many years, remains open.

A NEW HYBRID BETWEEN A BLUE WHALE, BALAENOPTERA MUSCULUS, AND A FIN WHALE, B. PHYSALUS: FREQUENCY AND IMPLICATIONS OF HYBRIDIZATION

…Either species may act as father or mother, and there does not appear to be a selection for a given sex among the hybrids. The reproductive capacity of these hybrids remains unknown, although incidence of reproductive impairment appears to be higher in hybrid males than in hybrid females.

soficrowFYI - I am not and have not spoken "with certainty" - I have just said this is a reasonable hypothesis.

That's fair enough. I disagree with how plausible the hypothesis is but I, in all fairness, can't say 100% that its absolutely implausible. I disagree but am always willing to entertain new data that corroborates one way or the other.

reply to post by peter vlar


Cool, and thanks. Not to make a ridiculous leap, let's look at some unrelated stuff that I suspect may have some bearing on the future of bio-informatics. Point being there is a lot of "cross talk" - and maybe a lot more than we know. [I'm most intrigued by cross-domain gene sharing, as well as lateral gene transfer.] A quick over-view:

Cross-Domain

…the Mv1751 gene was able to complement an essential gene in another domain of life. It is rare to find two genes from different domains of life, especially essential genes, that are interchangeable. Because of the conservation of many aspects of the N-linked glycosylation systems in bacteria, archaea, and eukaryotes, the deciphering of the roles and interchangeability of various components may be advanced by consideration of the use of cross-domain complementation.

Cross-Kingdom

Putative cross-kingdom horizontal gene transfer in sponge (Porifera) mitochondria

…We suggest that the horizontal gene transfer of a mitochondrial intron was facilitated by a symbiotic relationship between fungus and sponge. Ecological relationships are known to have implications at the genomic level. Here, an ecological relationship between sponge and fungus is suggested based on the genomic analysis.

Polypurine (A)-rich sequences promote cross-kingdom conservation of internal ribosome entry

…Presumably, such IRES elements can overcome kingdom-specific barriers to translation of the second gene because of their unique capability to exploit only those translation initiation factors and noncanonical transacting proteins that are able to express their function universally in different types of cell. It is possible that the ribosome per se, as the most conserved element of the eukaryotic translation apparatus, is responsible for cross-kingdom IRES activity.

…Analysis of European Molecular Biology Laboratory databases showed that the 5′UTRs of numerous cellular mRNAs contain PARSs that could be regarded as putative plant IRESs. Our preliminary results indicate that two additional mRNAs of this type, i.e., those encoding the tobacco poly(A)-binding protein (43) and 48-kDa mitogen-activated protein kinase (44), also promote internal translation. The approach could thus be used to identify IRES elements in eukaryotic genomes.

A bacterial cell–cell communication signal with cross-kingdom structural analogues

Extracellular signals are the key components of microbial cell–cell communication systems. … As prokaryote–eukaryote interactions are ubiquitous, such cross-kingdom conservation in cell–cell communication systems might have significant ecological and economic importance.

Cross-Phylum

Cross-phylum regulatory potential of the ascidian Otx gene in brain development in Drosophila melanogaster.

The origin of molecular mechanisms of cephalic development is an intriguing question in evolutionary and developmental biology. …These results support the notion that basal chordates such as ascidians have the same molecular patterning mechanism for the anterior structures found in higher chordates, and suggest a common genetic program of cephalic development in invertebrate, protochordate and vertebrate.

Conserved genetic programs in insect and mammalian brain development

These studies also show that the genes of the otd/Otx family can functionally replace each other in cross-phylum rescue experiments and indicate that the genetic mechanisms underlying pattern formation in insect and mammalian brain development are evolutionarily conserved.

…a novel family of proteins of presumably nuclear localization, with a characteristic highly basic motif, KRR-R, transcends various phyla, and plays an important role in cellular processes. We propose to call this essential gene KRR1.

Cross-Class

Too hard to search quickly due to over-abundance of research reports on genetic modification and psychiatric research. lol

Cross-Order

CRISPR loci reveal networks of gene exchange in archaea

Spacers reveal gene transfer events across species boundaries

….This work demonstrates that there is much gene exchange within and between archaeal genera, and that anti-viral spacers, especially cross-protective ones, are preferentially retained. While the primary role of CRISPR/Cas systems appears to be to provide immunity against invading DNA, many spacers that are acquired can target ran- dom, presumably harmless, genes, just as vertebrate immune systems often recognize harmless antigens.

I've seen this before, and the guy's reasoning does make sense if you can get past your prejudice against the idea. This would explain why pig organs are somewhat compatible with humans. It would also explain why humans have little body hair. What other mammals besides humans and pigs lack substantial body hair besides marine mammals? Radical Muslims say that Jews are the sons of apes and pigs. I think it may say so in the Koran.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Interesting concept, DNA passed through viruses.

Makes a lot more sense than cross breeding.

Best idea I have seen on the thread.

Got any links that discuss this possibility?

soficrow
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

...If Humans on Earth can Do it Now !! Why couldn't an Higher Race of Beings did it to US!!

Science just copies what happens in nature - especially bio- and nano-technology. So a "higher race of beings" could have done it, but it also could have happened naturally.


GREAT links btw. S& : up :

Thanks ...

Im not sure to be exactly but 2 different number of chromosome that 10 Chromosomes difference between Pig and Ape is a 10 Chromosome Difference unless a Genetically Mutated Distorter

Well if you look at Down Syndrome (trisomy 21) extra Chromosome material in Number 21 with a Combination retro Virus in the mix altering mixing Who Knows for Naturally



Denisovans, Humans and the Chromosome 2 Fusion
biologos.org...

WOW HOLY CHINA!!!!

Why are British scientists creating a human-pig hybrid?
by Julia Layton

Researchers at Shanghai Second University have combined humans and rabbits [source: Telegraph]. Mayo Clinic scientists in Minnesota have already created pigs that have human blood, and a Stanford researcher developed mice whose brains are 1 percent human, with the ultimate goal of creating mice with entirely human brains [source: National Geographic]. It's not actually new in Britain, either: Human-cow embryos have been growing in London for quite some time.
You may even know a chimera, yourself. Technically, transplant patients who've received heart valves from a pig are chimeras. Along those lines, some of the chimera research to date has focused on how to create animal organs that are partly human so the human body has a better chance of accepting that kind of transplant. Some of it focuses on creating an egg to aid in human fertility research, since human eggs are hard to come by and are very expensive. Other research, though, including the new research at the University of Warwick in the United Kingdom, has different, albeit related, goals.

science.howstuffworks.com...

I Guess WE HOMINID PIGS are putting are playing again with Ourselves LOL! Doing the Same as our Creator well According to OPs Post .. Well Chimeras the GENES! that is...

OHH GOD!!

Stanford researcher developed mice whose brains are 1 percent human, with the ultimate goal of creating mice with entirely human brains [source: National Geographic]

The Island of Dr Moreau

And The Secret Of NIMH !!!

Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH
en.wikipedia.org...

Research published in the March 2013 issue of Cell Stem Cell details the injection of human glial cells into the brains of newborn mice.[3] Upon maturation, the mice were faster learners—a novel marker of life imitating art. Like Mrs. Frisby and her rat cohorts, it would appear that researchers working with the National Institutes of Health are busy creating super-smart rodents that may well lead to dramatic breakthroughs in neuroscience.[4]

Comes to Mind!!


THE REALITY!! of NIMH

Mice Expressing Human Genes Bred to Help Unravel Mental Disorders
www.nimh.nih.gov...

Mouse Models Containing Human Alleles: Novel Tools to Study Brain Function
www.nimh.nih.gov... dy-brain-function.shtml

The Search NIMH
search.nimh.nih.gov...


Mouse Genetic Models Hint at Why We Can’t Always Have It All

Science Update • September 15, 2008
www.nimh.nih.gov...


Transgenic Mouse Offers a Window on Gene/Environment Interplay: Prenatal Infection Alters Behavior in Genetically Vulnerable
www.nimh.nih.gov... netically-vulnerable.shtml?at_xt=4d0ad83501fd4b96%25252C0&sms_ss=twitter

Novel Model of Depression from Social Defeat Shows Restorative Power of Exercise
www.nimh.nih.gov...

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Is that why we cant eat pork?

I always thought there was a connection there. Nice....It feels good to know things off the top of your head.

Just as a question : can anyone think of any physical trait found in Humans that has not happened at least once before in the fossil record?

the use of and dependence on technology such as protective clothing and fire building. Every other animal has been physically adapted to survive in their surroundings without wearing clothes or building fires to stay warm.

tadaman
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Is that why we cant eat pork?

I always thought there was a connection there. Nice....It feels good to know things off the top of your head.

McCarthy is one of the world’s leading geneticists and probably the greatest expert for hybrid animals in the world

LOL, I don't think I would call him the greatest expert after a claim like that.

reply to post by Wolfenz


You might like this one. Kinda suggests chromosome numbers are not immutable.

INHERITANCE OF CHROMOSOME NUMBER IN PIGS

All possible crosses were made between European wild pigs with either 36 or 37 chromosomes and domestic swine with 38. The 36×36 cross produced only pigs with 36; the 36×37 and 37×38 crosses yielded the parent numbers in about equal numbers of pigs. All pigs resulting from the 36×38 cross had 37, while crossing 37×37 gave progeny with 36, 37 or 38 in about a 1:2:1 ratio. It is surmised that the three unpaired members in the 37-chromosome animal act as a trivalent during meiosis with two telocentric chromosomes behaving as a unit. No firm evidence indicated reduced fertility in any of the animals nor were any physical changes evident which could be associated with different chromosome forms.

No matter how this claim may seem unbelievable, McCarthy is one of the world’s leading geneticists and probably the greatest expert for hybrid animals in the world

I've seen a lot of folks on this thread talking crap and dismissing this man's finding but very little in the way of a solid rebuttle of his theories. This man is accepted as one of the leaders in his field....should we be so quick to pass this off as bunkum?

LOL, I don't think I would call him the greatest expert after a claim like that.

reply to post by Evanzsayz


And why would that be? Because you don't like it? Think his theory is unsound? The man is a leading EXPERT in the field.

Reminds me of Copernicus....he asserted that the Earth was not in fact the centre of the universe. A revolutionary idea at the time that was met with hostilty and derision.

Things are only impossible....until their not.

Phage
So, did the chimp rape the pig or vice versa?

I know this one.