Old picture of Japanese Samurai

Moral judgments aside the Samurai were among the finest trained warriors ever. I am endlessly fascinated by the metal and lacquer work with in their weapons, armor and accoutrements. So far as I'm concerned this was the high point of metal work before 1900, never to be surpassed. Not only are their blades unsurpassed for strength and flexibility but the handles and tsuba (guards) were the very definition of artistic achievement.

bigman88

intrptr
reply to post by brandiwine14

 

Samurai warriors fought with conviction, honor, and discipline.

Phooey. They have the look of arrogance like any other elite. They murdered whomever the warlords told them too. You could lose your head for meeting their stare or not bowing low enough at their passing.

Zip.

I'm with you right here. The one all the way on the right looks like a boisterous, superior jerk.

Samurai were skilled and deadly, and operated by their own code, but their very status of warriors resulted in a giant, inflated ego. Also they were borderline gangsters in a way. Working for local warlords in intimidation and extortion. Killing whoever they were told to kill. Extracting daily contributions from people who probably was barely able to contribute with having nothing left for themselves.


A lowly peasant showing even a slight inkling of disrespect or irreverence, even if unintentional, could mean a mean, cruel scolding to remind how lowly and dirty you are, or a quickly confiscated head.

edit on 24-11-2013 by bigman88 because: (no reason given)

Just curious, have you read John Man's book 'Samurai'?

You seem to share his opinions regarding the Samurai (almost to the word).

His book, incidentally, is fit for cleaning one's backside with, and nothing more.

reply to post by opethPA


Wonderful Picture!

S&F for sure

seabhac-rua

bigman88

intrptr
reply to post by brandiwine14

 

Samurai warriors fought with conviction, honor, and discipline.

Phooey. They have the look of arrogance like any other elite. They murdered whomever the warlords told them too. You could lose your head for meeting their stare or not bowing low enough at their passing.

Zip.

I'm with you right here. The one all the way on the right looks like a boisterous, superior jerk.

Samurai were skilled and deadly, and operated by their own code, but their very status of warriors resulted in a giant, inflated ego. Also they were borderline gangsters in a way. Working for local warlords in intimidation and extortion. Killing whoever they were told to kill. Extracting daily contributions from people who probably was barely able to contribute with having nothing left for themselves.


A lowly peasant showing even a slight inkling of disrespect or irreverence, even if unintentional, could mean a mean, cruel scolding to remind how lowly and dirty you are, or a quickly confiscated head.

edit on 24-11-2013 by bigman88 because: (no reason given)

Just curious, have you read John Man's book 'Samurai'?

You seem to share his opinions regarding the Samurai (almost to the word).

His book, incidentally, is fit for cleaning one's backside with, and nothing more.

edit on 26-11-2013 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)

No clue, never heard of it.

I just think that this warrior class has been fantasized and romanticized in popular culture to an extensive degree. Their very ethics of conduct concerning samurai lifestyle and training is awesome, i would commend that. They were deadly, and DISCIPLINED in many aspects of their daily movements. But let's not kid ourselves, Japan, like many countries of the past and today, harbored a strict, polarizing hierarchy, and with that came a social stigma that was followed by most people, i'm guessing.

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the larger portion of the samurai population carried there superiority with them. They were elite, powerful, stronger than you, higher in the social ladder than you, more disciplined and focused than you, and they made sure to remind you. Although some retained this thought solely due to them following the duel social attributes and associations assigned to there societal rank, others were probably very proud or mean to begin with, and a status as samurai only augmented that.

I am sure some leaned towards the disciplined and honorable side of their samurai lifestyle that was reserved for their training, the battlefield, and their masters, and treated everyone with dignity and respect. Some carried out their duties for their masters with tact and humility, even though it probably involved taking 60% of someones business profits for his daimyo.

reply to post by bigman88


Well said.

You make good points. Albeit, we in modern western society have a very hard time understanding contemporary Japanese, and oriental, culture in general, let alone looking back through the mists of time. We tend to make assertions based upon our obvious bias towards what we have been raised to believe is right and proper in this world, it takes great effort to put these assertions and beliefs aside.

Wow, simply put, I would not # with them. Cool pic, thanks for sharing.

reply to post by opethPA


Well, those blades probably hadn't seen much of interest, really. By the 1800's, the Samurai class had become mostly poor beggar 'ronin' or body guards for the wealthy. A far cry from the samurai from before Japan was unified. There are many very interesting movies about this period actually, when the Samurai have gradually lost their way, and the inability to fit into a society that no longer needed them. I highly recommend "Twilight Samurai" from 2002 I believe. Probably one of my favorite movies of all time. There are a number of other period pieces based on a novelist by the name of Shuhei Fujisawa that I found very interesting.

reply to post by VoidHawk


those japanese archers look awfully skinny.. how much power do those bow's hold?

reply to post by choos


the draw strength on teh bows is measured in kilograms.
mine is a 13kg

i shoudl have got a 14.

the 13 14 is supposed to be equivilent to a 100 pound compund bow, if fired correctly.

something about the way the bow whips around in your hand, or something. no one really spoke english in my dojo, and i didnt speak alot of japanese!

brandiwine14
Cowards are all we have left now.

surely there is some veteran or maybe active duty in NY willing to demonstrate just exactly
how someone eats their words.

I can't believe your comment.. Cowards?

really? that is a big net dude..

I'd love to take you to an E-club.

Irako
reply to post by opethPA

 

Well, those blades probably hadn't seen much of interest, really. By the 1800's, the Samurai class had become mostly poor beggar 'ronin' or body guards for the wealthy. A far cry from the samurai from before Japan was unified. There are many very interesting movies about this period actually, when the Samurai have gradually lost their way, and the inability to fit into a society that no longer needed them. I highly recommend "Twilight Samurai" from 2002 I believe. Probably one of my favorite movies of all time. There are a number of other period pieces based on a novelist by the name of Shuhei Fujisawa that I found very interesting.

Best Samurai movie ever, imho .. By the great Akira Kurosawa , starring the best Japanese actor ever Toshiro Mifune. The strut Toshiro has in this movie is epic. And this is who Clint Eastwood studied and emulated to look so frickin cool as a cowboy.

this is worth watching, even though older.

Thank you for sharing this picture of the last wave of Japanese samurai who lived strictly by the Samurai Code of Bushido. But there is no need to look longingly at what used to be. The Samurai code of Bushido is still alive today. While Old Japan was governed by the tenets of Bushido, New Japan was formed by the tenets of Bushido. Many tenets of Bushido died out in certain aspects of life such as business, as the tenets of Honesty and Honor did not translate into good business. However, while Bushido had no place in the development of a Westernized Japanese economy, it had, and still has a central place in Japan's culture. The universal politeness, loyalty, tenacity, and endurance of the Japanese people can be traced back to the tenets of Bushido. Could any other country in the world have withstood two atom bombs and rise from the ashes to become one of the leading economies in the world while maintaining good relations with the very country that unleashed the most devastating weapon in the history of warfare upon them? When Japan lost World War II she responded honorably by willingly cooperating with the United States, and this sense of honor was not lost on Americans. Just look at the fusion of Japanese culture with ours over the past century through the importation of martial arts, and look at the significant influence samurai ideals have had in some major Western films. Star Wars is a great example of this, where the jedi's ideals are largely based on the samurai code.

brandiwine14
Great find!

Yes, just look at their faces their stillness and yet so much can be seen. Samurai warriors fought with conviction, honor, and discipline. Nothing like the drone remote controlled fighting we have now. Or the hiding behind the scope of a weapon. Cowards are all we have left now.

Again what a great picture, something worthy to look at and wonder about for awhile.

That's only what Hollywood wants you to think. The Samurai were mostly ruthless warlords who could, and would chop off the head of any peasant, or craftman that would dare not bow to them fast enough when the Samurai approached, or for any other reason at the whims of the Samurai.

You see, history is ALWAYS written by the victors, and the victors always change the facts with a bias in favor of the victors.

Take as an example the Shinobi/Ninjas. Ninjas were not what most people think they were. Most people think they were all assassins, when most of them were not. The Art of the Ninja, or Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu, although the true name is Shinobi, began because farmers got attacked by bandits very often and the Samurais would not protect the farmers even thou every peasant/craftmen/farmer had to pay a hefty tax "for protection" to the samurai lords and to the emperor. So farmers began learning how to use farming equipment as weapons, and learned how to defend themselves while keeping their identities hidden to protect their families and themselves. Later on they were used by Prince Shotoku and others as spies. That was their main duty when finally some samurai lords and one Emperor realized that the Shinobi were an asset as spies. There are only very few instances in which Shinobi/Ninjas were used as assassins. Yet they were/have been demonized by the ruling elite simply because the Shinobi/Ninjas evolved as the opposite force of the ruthless Samurai, and they became really good at it.

Even in Japanese folklore it is stated that the "ninja descended from a demon that was half man and half crow" because that's what they were led to believe by the Samurai and most Japanese Emperors and warlords. The Shinobi had to be demonized in the eyes of the other regular people which was both a detriment for the Shinobi since other regular people were scared of them, and was a weapon in their arsenal against Samurai and their soldiers because they were feared greatly. The truth is, although no one really knows how the first Shinobi came to be, it is believed that Chinese monks taught the first Shinobi clan but this is mainly a rumor. They were regular farmers who got fed up with the ruthlessness of the Samurai and the constant attacks by bandits and decided to take matters into their own hands.

Wang Tang
...
Star Wars is a great example of this, where the jedi's ideals are largely based on the samurai code.

It might have been based on the false claim that the Samurai were honorable and good, etc, etc, but that is not true. As I mentioned in my earlier response Samurais were ruthless warlords who would not only chop the head off an unarmed peasant if he/she didn't bow fast enough, or even for looking at the Samurais in their eyes, etc, but it is also known that they would often test the cutting edge of their swords on any passing peasant by chopping their heads off. Is that being noble and honorable?

The code of Bushido is the ethical code of conduct developed during Japan’s feudal period. This occurred at about the same time that the code of Chivalry was developed in Europe. The development of both systems was directly related to the structure and purposes of feudalism, a social, governmental system wherein certain noble families controlled most of the land, and maintained private armies of professional soldiers. In Japan, these soldiers were called Samurai. For almost five hundred years, various Japanese lords, called Daimyo, warred with each other for land and for political and economic power. They employed thousands of the Samurai warriors, who swore loyalty to them alone. To hone their professional skills, outrageous license was granted to the Samurai. A samurai could kill anyone who was not a Samurai for any reason whatsoever, or for no reason at all. It was reported that Samurai would cut off the heads of passing peasants merely to test the cutting edge of their swords! Soon, these excesses led to the threat of anarchy. To forestall this, some form of noblesse oblige had to be imposed on the Samurai. The code of Bushido was the result.

louisrose.com...

Probably taken right before the older Samurai took the younger Samurai off for some "love training".
Bi-Do...Samurai had as many names for man-boy-love as Eskimos have for snow.

Long over romanticized view of people with questionable morality (basically Mercs)...give me an AR15 in just about every other scenario except a small confined space.

Metal work is unquestionably brilliant but I would question their monicker as "best trained fighters ever"..reckon Pirates or Ninjas would give them a run for their money (LOL)

yeah, i was gonna say, the fact that there is a pic of them, means it was at the end of the samurai.

the guys looks, were from the realization of their/that way of life, was over.

my friend in japan, prides himself as a decedent of the samurai. he took great care of us, when we visited.

he only chopped off 2 heads. just kidding.


i would trust him with my life, btw. if i needed it.

reply to post by tsingtao


Well, of course your friend now will say that about his ancestors. Just ask anyone from Europe about their ancestors who were lords and see how many say they were ruthless barbarians, rapists and murderers.

ElectricUniverse
reply to post by tsingtao

 

Well, of course your friend now will say that about his ancestors. Just ask anyone from Europe about their ancestors who were lords and see how many say they were ruthless barbarians, rapists and murderers.

yeah, i thought that too, at first.

my friend is the real deal. it's a code of living.

just not swords, anymore.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

You speak of the West's romanticism of the samurai, yet you quote a passage that is equally erroneous.

Bushido is a relatively modern term. The concepts that Bushido was founded upon had their roots in Confucianism, Shinto and Zen Buddhism. Bushido was not some code imposed upon the samurai to stop them randomly chopping people's heads off. This is as skewed an opinion as the one held by people who think that all samurai were chivalrous Ben Kenobi types. The ideology, that eventually came to be known as what we call Bushido today, developed over centuries, and it's precepts permeated all stratas of Japanese society, not just the warrior class.

With regards to the testing of their blades, expensive swords were tested on the bodies of dead criminals, by expert swordsmen, who were professional 'sword testers'. The tang of the blade was then etched with the date and number of corpses cut etc. Did the occasional cruel samurai test his blade on a peasant or an unwary traveler on a lonely road? Yes they did, but this practice was outlawed by the Shogunate and perpetrators were severely punished.

Samurai were not warlords either, they were servants or vassals, the term samurai is derived from the classical Japanese verb 'saburau' - "to serve". They were men, and like all men there were good and bad, courageous and cowardly amongst their ranks.

Also, one thing about the 'Ninja', there is no one source of information about the subject of Ninjitsu. I have heard multiple 'histories' of the origins of these infamous characters, all of them are different. What makes you think your version is correct?

opethPA
Searched for it and did not see this in other threads...

I saw this photo come across my Twitter feed the other day and it really made my mind wander and think about the past.. It shows 5 samurai with weapons in a small room. I wonder exactly what those blades have done and what their eyes have seen. It really is an amazing shot to me because in a world where we are used to seeing footage from combat being show like a Hollywood blockbuster and the average AR15 user has more firepower then all 5 of these men combined your mind can extrapolate how different combat must have been to them.

I would be scared if i farted in that little room.