Old picture of Japanese Samurai

reply to post by opethPA


At the risk of absurdity . . . and with a picture not that clear of their eyes which might afford more accuracy . . .

The one on the left looks plenty hostile, . . . at least aggressively defensive . . . perhaps cynical.

The 2nd from the left looks the most 'human' of them all. He still looks like he has some humanity left vs being a refined "killing machine." At least far more so than the rest.

The tall ?older? one in the center looks very weighed down by his role. Perhaps he has the 2nd most humanity left, though. Hard to say. He might compete for that with the 4th from the left/2nd from the right.

The tall center one seems to have a lot of wisdom for all his burdensome life. I think he as well as the 2nd from the left might weigh all the factors MORE than be merely reflexive in their actions.

The 2nd from the right . . . seems to be full of resignation contributing to resoluteness. I don't think he's thrilled with his role but quite willing to fulfill it to the best of his ability. And, I think he could certainly ### arse and take names with the rest of them. There's a ton of sadness about him, though.

And, there's a ton of sadness about the tall center one and the one the 2nd from the left.

The ones on the far left and the far right have sadness but not that they are knowingly displaying. It's more to be inferred from their expressions, body postures, stances. Their life does not look all that fun in any remotely sweet ways though no doubt they have had pleasures and options above most in their culture.

The one on the right certainly appears to be the most arrogant with his nose in the air.

Yet, there's some resigned . . . possibly maturity . . . possibly wisdom . . . about him, too.

I think all of them could dispatch any number of lives and not look back all that much, if at all. The 2nd from the left might ponder the implications and consequences for those concerned more than the rest.

The left most one and the 2nd from the right seem to be the most pitiful, somehow.

I'd hate to be the son of any of them . . . the 2nd from the left might be the more tangibly and overt loving of the 5; but still . . . could probably be quite stern in the disciplines of living.

I think the household of the tall center one could feel quite secure . . . partly because of his fierce role and skills but also because of his discerning wisdom. Probably ditto the 2nd from the left.

I think the ones on the far left and on the far right could be occasionally rash in their judgments and actions--to serious consequences--at least for hapless others.

I can imagine the 3 central ones being more likely to . . . maybe not agonize over their actions or choices . . . but to ponder them with more humanity.

Yet, the one on the right . . . in his quieter moments might also give pause to consider the implications of his choices and actions--though he'd likely be loathe to allow anyone else to see him with such thoughtfulness.

I'm skeptical that the one on the left has known anything but ache and pain from horrendous early life attachment disorder to the time the photo was taken.

The same might well be said of the two on the right . . . and to some degree . . . all of them. But I think less so for the tall center one and the one 2nd from the left.

I guess that's about all I can pick up from the incredible pic.

THX THX.

Not important as I don't want to take away from this pic.

The look was called the 1000 yard stare in later times. Many who have seen combat and then are thrust back into what we call civilized society have the look for a time; it is not a look of arrogance but a look of seeing through death.. Or put another way looking death in the eye unafraid; for many feel (in some ways) they died already.

Maybe sounds weird to some but it is "the real deal"! The look goes away after a time once the weapons are no longer used. But IMO it is always there just under the surface along with the swivel neck and head always searching for danger. These guys if they ever saw real fighting looked their enemies in the eye and prevailed. It is different than a 100 yard shot and see your enemy fall; call it close and personal....it changes the survivor.

VoidHawk
Were they known for doing strange things to their feet? Look at this.

no, that was standard foot ware of the time known as geta and the socks are called tabi and they separate the big toe part from the other toes.
though those look like formal zori and that clothing looks like the kind a high ranking samurai would wear during the tokugawa/edo period, that picture is probably from 1850 something since they stopped dressing that way during the later part of that era.

namehere


samurai honor wasn't such a grand thing as you seem to think it is and they had no problem killing innocent people if they didn't bow their head properly, if they got in the way of their lords precession, if they spoke wrong or didn't satisfy them or their lord with their action and i could keep going but won't.
the honor, conviction and discipline they had only was reserved for their master/lord, the battlefield and those of proper status(for the most part), but for other people below them they had no problem killing as a drone would, without thought to question why, with no remorse or hesitation, just obedience and submission to their master/controller.

INDEED.

I think most non-military [and a lot of military] Americans et al largely live in la la land in terms of OBEDIENCE AND SUBMISSION to AUTHORITY.

Too many have elevated

--INDIVDIUALISM
--INDEPENDENCE
--FREEDOM

and far too outrageously REBELLION

to godlike status in their priority schema.

Those regions closer to the earth and closer to TRADITIONS of man . . . have a different perspective.

In various courts in China, one did not turn and leave the Emperor. One backed away. If one showed one's rear to the Emperor, one could be dead microseconds later.

In many contexts, one just didn't bow the head or nod or even bow to the waist--one literally kowtowed with one's face in the dust on the ground or floor until told to rise.

I'm not at all saying that such regimes were RIGHT or healthy or wonderful.

However, what such regimes did teach . . . that Western 'egalitarian' individualism etc worshiping cultures do NOT teach.

That AUTHORITY has a place. And ignorant, stupid rebellion against it, has a price.

Consequently, thousands of people yell absurdities at ALMIGHTY GOD as though He really were a fantasy being.

They WILL DISCOVER . . . alas, far too late for many . . . that HE IS REAL

AND

that HE IS

THE ULTIMATE ALL POWERFUL AUTHORITY.

Thankfully, He is also Loving and wise and kind.

Nevertheless, He will not tolerate rebellion in His realm any longer, at some point. He's had enough of satan's rebellion and stirring up rebellion 'among the troops.'

The Samurai knew very well what to do with rebellion. The serfs and slaves suffered unreasonably and outrageously and unfairly.

Nevertheless, there was a kind of order . . . and chaos was somewhat at bay in many regions for a lot of years. Even the poor did better without chaos.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Awesome pic of archers!

So I had to go find a video (modern one) of their prowess. Halfway thru here…

reply to post by intrptr


They make it look so easy! Some fine looking horses there.

at the end of ww2 all samuri swords were rounded up with no exceptions and broken up among those were priceless air looms some hunderds of years old thousands of years of metalworking were lost in the blink of a bomb .

a bit like the mad chin emperor who burned millenia of austromony charts the things that were lost to the world

I firmly believe that modern gun combat and yesteryears close quarters melee combat are on two different levels, one needing much more skill than the other.

Here is a relevant analogy. A thoroughly trained, highly equipped, skilled special ops team can go up against untrained, poor, panicky, blindfire around the wall, spray n' pray gunmen in and end up getting killed.

I am completely sure that opposing troops of the same skill level on a pre-firearm battlefield will not result in scrappy, malnourished, untrained troops or rebels having any sort of chance against elite troops of any sort.

It doesn't take nearly as much skill to master a gun than it does to wield a striking weapon.

Guns take reflex, coordination, arm muscle control,

Melee weapons take complete body fitness and so much more technique and training. An unfit person can shoot a gun accurately. But he will have much more difficulty swinging a mace, or thrusting with spear effectively.

If you give trained troops from different eras each other's weapons, how would they fare against each other? Give a samurai a gun, show him how to use it and make sure he fully understands how it works and what it entails, send him up against one of today's troops, and he still has a chance of killing him. It seems highly unlikely, but that's bullets for you. But then you give a soldier of today a katana, which needs no lesson taught (besides advanced techniques) for what do with it, and pit him against a pro of that era, he is done, quickly.

Is anyone able to translate what the signs above each man says?

reply to post by brandiwine14

Yes, just look at their faces their stillness and yet so much can be seen. Samurai warriors fought with conviction, honor, and discipline

Indeed, but but the question that troubles me is, How the hell did they manage to fly through the air chopping each other to pieces wearing flip flops ???

I can barely get to the car in flip flops without falling about like a fat lady in ice skates, let alone fend off a marauding kung fu gang with a mighty sword.

Do you think they used something like military grade grip tape or velcro fasteners ?

If I look at the OPs photo and look in the faces, I can see the following emotions (just my opinions, from left to right):
- hate and eagerness
- sadness and reflectiveness
- determination
- silence and calmness
- pride, just pure pride

aLLeKs
If I look at the OPs photo and look in the faces, I can see the following emotions (just my opinions, from left to right):
- hate and eagerness
- sadness and reflectiveness
- determination
- silence and calmness
- pride, just pure pride

edit on 25-11-2013 by aLLeKs because: (no reason given)

when you try to read what someone elses face is saying from a single picture, you are in fact reflecting your own image onto that picture.

it takes more than one expression to be able to gauge a person. it takes a feeling and subtle microexpressions. it takes experience and understanding.

you cannot know anything from a single picture

reply to post by okamitengu


Certainly it's far better to have several pictures all showing quite clearly in enlarged detail the person's eyes.

However, I've been 'reading pics' for more than 40 years. I routinely ask the individuals concerned how accurate my impressions were.

They always told me 80-100% accurate. And more than 30-40% of the time, 90-98% accurate.

And, I'd guesstimate that 40-60% of such situations involved only one pic.

Believe what you will.

Certainly some folks are easier to read in pics than others.

Oddly, I had a more difficult time reading faces in personal face to face contacts than I did reading their pics.

reply to post by opethPA


Nice photo!

I was in Tokyo a few years ago and went to the Sword museum in Shinjuku. It was really fascinating. One of the curator's was explaining to me (my Japanese is ok but not fluent) the origin of some of the blades on display.

I was translating for my mate who went with me (as he'd always wanted to go but wouldn't unless someone he knew could speak Japanese went) that a lot of these funny little dings in the metal were from the blades stopping arrows. I wasn't sure i understood him right but yes, the actually used the spine side of the blade to physically stop arrows. I was pretty stoked at that.

And then just wandering around and looking at the blades, you can't help but sort of empathise with them - and wonder what have they seen, what and who have they cut or killed? A lot of history, a lot of life and death in these ancient bits of metal in the museum.

Very sobering experience. Would suggest visiting if anyone heads that way - just don't take pictures. They don't permit it. So I found out...

brandiwine14
Great find!

Yes, just look at their faces their stillness and yet so much can be seen. Samurai warriors fought with conviction, honor, and discipline. Nothing like the drone remote controlled fighting we have now. Or the hiding behind the scope of a weapon. Cowards are all we have left now.

Again what a great picture, something worthy to look at and wonder about for awhile.

What an ignorant view.

Drone striking is still very much supplemental to the on the ground fighting we have at the moment.

Let's look at it with an open view point, put yourself in the hot seat - would you rather risk sending a platoon or even company of soldiers to strike an isolated location deep behind enemy lines for the possibility of killing or capturing maybe a handful of high ranking enemy fighters or would it be more economical, safer and damn right more effective to set up surveillance on the compound, positively ID the target the strike swiftly with explosive ordnance.

This allows you to use your on the ground troops for more specialist tasks, such as the role the majority of troops in Afghanistan are undertaking at the moment - hearts and minds, policing and mentoring Afghan counter parts.

The probability that the samurai pictured here ever saw actual combat is very small.

These pictures were taken in the late 1800's when Japan was opening itself to the west, a time when the 'way of the sword' was in decline.

Many of the westerners who took these pictures lived and worked in Japan's large cities. Most of the samurai that were photographed in this period were either officials or lower ranking retainers, very few of them were actual swordsmen in the sense that they dedicated their lives to perfecting their martial skills.

The majority of samurai battles were fought on horseback with bows, the battles vs rival samurai were fought in a very, very coordinated manner.

The samurai were amazing archers on horseback, arguably the finest in the world, nearly all their battles were fought with the bow.

They rarely used their trademark swords in battle, these were mainly used for beheading their opponents after already defeating them! This is what Japanese soldiers did in world war II, to bring out their inner, samurai spirit!

If they were thrown from their horse they would simply roll and grapple with each other until one of them was lucky enough to kill the other with their weapon of choice, the tanto (dagger). This was the weapon they generally used if they were dismounted, not the sword.

The samurai were aristocrats, you had to be a nobleman to be samurai, if you were a peasant you were simply an expendable foot soldier with next to no training, armed with a flimsy, cheap weapon (if they were equipped with proper weapons at all). As a result many samurai battle stories were heavily exaggerated for added effect for their noble and wealthy audiences!

Don't get me wrong I'm fascinated by the samurai and am currently reading a book about them as I type these words, but there's a hell of a lot of nonsense written about these fine warriors.

Oh, the comment about a samurai easily killing a modern day infantryman armed with an assault rifle, Jesus that made me laugh!