America; A Coward Country

reply to post by TDawgRex


The real issue is we need manufacturing jobs back and for unions to lose some of their arrogance.

Learning a trade and being able to depend on it for a long career is foolish now. People want cabinets they buy them prefabricated. People want iron or bronze work they buy it prefabricated and install it.

A car that needs to have its engine rebuilt will result in people dishing their car for a new one.

Your tv, vcr, dvd player breaks down and you throw it away and buy a new one. There is no more repair work to be done.

Automation is the biggest problem and outsourcing is the second biggest problem.

Otherwise I agree with you that college should not be necessary to guarantee oneself a healthy lifestyle. There is definitely something mystical about going to college which I never really understood. My parents pushed me perpetually and I ended up getting an associates degree in science, which is worth as much as supermarket coupons. To be honest I had plenty of dreams just like anyone else, but reality and dreams often dont mix.

There is also the problem of overqualifying for a job, such as when applying at McDonalds with a bachelors degree will see you either get a managers job or dismissed. They KNOW you will NOT put up with loads of # like the illegal mexicans will or the typical high school part-timer who needs spare cash. The people who hire have plenty of real life experience and they want low wage "yes sir" slaves.

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

The real issue is we need manufacturing jobs back and for unions to lose some of their arrogance.

Learning a trade and being able to depend on it for a long career is foolish now. People want cabinets they buy them prefabricated. People want iron or bronze work they buy it prefabricated and install it.

A car that needs to have its engine rebuilt will result in people dishing their car for a new one.

Your tv, vcr, dvd player breaks down and you throw it away and buy a new one. There is no more repair work to be done.

Automation is the biggest problem and outsourcing is the second biggest problem.

All totally valid points. Most Americans nowadays buy throwaway crap. I call it that because that is exactly what they do just as you say. Though I still know people in the trades who are busier than ever. Some people are willing to pay for quality work that'll last a lifetime and beyond.

When it comes to the tech such as Autos/TV's and such, the days of the shade tree mechanic are over sadly. Oh, there are those who can still do it, but most people don't want to pay them the pay scale they demand.

One of the advantages that robots/automation has over human labor is that robots don't sue. Once so many units are sold they are bought and paid for, can be reprogrammed, don't require days off etc, etc. I'm not saying that I like it, but it makes sense from a manufacturing viewpoint.

The one cert that I don't see a whole lot of is those who repair those robots. That would seem to be a in demand job. Just like those who repair MRI/CAT scan/X-ray machines. Medical machine repair makes FAT cash as they have to travel all over. There really is not a lot of them in that industry so they can command the premium prices.

Couple all this with strangling small business regulations and you have a headache in the making. But if you give up before you even try, well, you're doomed to failure right off the bat.

What can I say, I'm a hard headed optimist. Donkeys could take lessons in being stubborn from me. LOL

reply to post by TDawgRex


Quantity over quality leads to materialism, materialism lends to automation and outsourcing, which both lead to higher profit margins for wall street investors, which then leads to unemployment compensation for the unemployed, less overall taxes collected by the government because unemployed dont pay taxes and corporations get tax breaks, and eventually defaulting on the bond obligations from the government, which then leads to the new world order one world digital currency with potential rfid chips for the ACA enrolled.

Do I have it all figured out yet?

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

Quantity over quality leads to materialism, materialism lends to automation and outsourcing, which both lead to higher profit margins for wall street investors, which then leads to unemployment compensation for the unemployed, less overall taxes collected by the government because unemployed dont pay taxes and corporations get tax breaks, and eventually defaulting on the bond obligations from the government, which then leads to the new world order one world digital currency with potential rfid chips for the ACA enrolled.

Do I have it all figured out yet?

I wouldn't go all there quite yet. The roads still have many paths to take.

But I think you're close.

reply to post by TDawgRex


That' not the first paragraph of the post that I referred to.

My first post was this:

My actual first post which made perfect sense and you don't seem to get it. Take a look at the post that you're referencing DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH, A.K.A after this post.

It was introduced as an assumption, and quite frankly the fact that you're holding onto a math estimation in a personal anecdote just further proves that you have no points to really argue.

You can't even argue this one, after all, and it's not even relevent. It would help if you could get the chronology right on a post that you can see by going 2 pages back.

reply to post by TheRegal

It was introduced as an assumption, and quite frankly the fact that you're holding onto a math estimation in a personal anecdote just further proves that you have no points to really argue.

Ok, lets go back in time a bit. First of all, when you assume...well, I'm sure you get the gist of it. But I freely admit to being a happy one. LOL

How many pennies did you have to pay for that phone each month back then?

I didn't save pennies. I saved dollars. I didn't have a cell phone until the late '90's because to be trythful. I don't like them. I still to this day treat my cell as a landline and it is of the old style clamshell type. I have an actual life.

What did your transportation cost you?

I don't even think about transportation much. Never have and probably never will. I've rode a bike 15 miles each way to work back in my teens. (It's not really that hard) Lugged a lawnmower around town to mow lawns and as I grew older I drove my truck. (Trucks are money makers if you use them correctly, people always need to haul stuff)

How much did a nice shirt cost you an how long i it alst before falling apart?

I've always been a T-Shirt and blue jeans guy, so money was never a issue clothing myself. Salvation Army or K-Mart, etc are aways selling T-Shirts at discount rates.

Did you need a computer to fill out a job application?

If you don't change with the times and keep up to date with todays tech...you're screwed. But I've done both written and on-line applications. They haven't failed me yet. Of course I no longer need to do such.

How much debt were you in by the time your schooling was done?

Not one red cent. When I dropped out of school, I was homeless in Wisconsin, It gets quite cold there in the winter. So I joined the military, got my GED and have been going to school ever since. And I pay for each class up front. Most of the courses I take are certifications, not degrees. Degrees are for the most part useless unless you are in the medical or law fields. Though I do have respect for engineers as well.

Did you even need a diploma to make decent money?

Obviously not, hence our debate. I think that everybody has opportunities that are presented to them. But what they do with them is an individual choice.

Di the people who did have diplomas get jobs an not end up making minimum wage an trying to pay off their student loans that got them nowhere?

Who cares about diplomas? The empoyers obviously don't. Again, it's the individuals choice. I know so many people who have been popular at school and had everything handed to them who now live in trailers. Whereas I also know people who weren't all that smart during school but could weld or build or farm and are doing quite nicely.

If I wanted to be a lawyer or a doctor, I might have risked putting myself through ungodly debt. But those weren't my ambitions. (BTW, I know doctors who are debt free because they had the militay pay for their education. They're doing pretty well IMHO and have loads more experiance than any other)

Now that I've clarified...are we done?

reply to post by TDawgRex


Now now, dear; we're just getting started.

You want everyone to do it just by plugging it out and being persistent in today's economy (which you consistently show that you know nothing about), but you've actually just stated that the only reason you were able to keep yourself above the poverty line was because you joined the military.

A whole whack of people would rather starve to death than join a taxpayer-robbing world police organisation for big name corporate service.

Now -- a few other points:

- If you showed up to a job interview in a t-shirt and jeans, you would not get a job over someone who showed up in a dres shirt and tie 99 times out of 100. Clothes cost money. Need clothes to get a job. Need a job to get clothes.

- If you didn't put a cell phone number and e-mail address on your resume, they likely wouldnt even consider it. Phones cost money. Need phone to get a job. Need a job to get a phone.

- Degrees are required for almost everything now. Your assertion that only lawyers and medical practitioners need them shows a massive amount of ignorance about today's career prerequisites. These days you need a degree in administrative assistance to answer phone calls as a secretary for pete's sakes. If you don't you'll lose the job to someone who has it.

- Bikes cost money. Need bike to get to work. Need work to get a bike.

- Computers cost money. Need computer to get a job. Need a job to get a computer.

Your answer to all of this, if I'm not mistaken, is "life isn't fair -- join the military"? I wonder which partisasn political faction you subscribe to .

reply to post by TheRegal


Ok, I'll play.

You want everyone to do it just by plugging it out and being persistent in today's economy (which you consistently show that you know nothing about), but you've actually just stated that the only reason you were able to keep yourself above the poverty line was because you joined the military.

Yes I do expect people to keep trying and to never give up. As far as I’m concerned as long as you keep trying you deserve a hand up, not a hand out. Again, it is fairly obvious that not only do you know little of how the economy works but a blatant disregard of common sense as well. I did what I had to do.

A whole whack of people would rather starve to death than join a taxpayer-robbing world police organisation for big name corporate service.

Organization. Since you claim to work in the IT field, there is this old program called spell check. Heard of it? And when I enlisted we were in the Cold War, not the World’s Policeman.

Now -- a few other points:
- If you showed up to a job interview in a t-shirt and jeans, you would not get a job over someone who showed up in a dres shirt and tie 99 times out of 100. Clothes cost money. Need clothes to get a job. Need a job to get clothes.
- If you didn't put a cell phone number and e-mail address on your resume, they likely wouldnt even consider it. Phones cost money. Need phone to get a job. Need a job to get a phone. - Bikes cost money. Need bike to get to work. Need work to get a bike.
- Computers cost money. Need computer to get a job. Need a job to get a computer.

Duh! I never knew any of that, say it ain’t so. LOL That’s common sense (see above). These aren’t even valid points in this discussion. Let me give you a little education concerning job interviews. Dress the part of the job that you are applying for.

- Degrees are required for almost everything now. Your assertion that only lawyers and medical practitioners need them shows a massive amount of ignorance about today's career prerequisites. These days you need a degree in administrative assistance to answer phone calls as a secretary for pete's sakes. If you don't you'll lose the job to someone who has it.

What a load of elitist rubbage. If you think that assuming a mountain load of debt gives you the advantage over someone who has actual experience, you really have no clue as to the real world works. I would hire somebody with experience or a certification any day of the week over someone with a spanking new degree.And the only time I’ve been replaced is when I moved up the food chain. I never left a job unless I had another lined up. It’s pretty straight forward and simple.

Your answer to all of this, if I'm not mistaken, is "life isn't fair -- join the military"? I wonder which partisasn political faction you subscribe to

Again, you are amusing, this doesn’t even matter. I actually look into and vet whoever I vote for rather than follow the pack in a cowardly manner like some drone.

buster2010
No the government doesn't want cowards or people to live off them. People that are working pay taxes and getting taxes makes the government happy a unemployed person makes the government sad because they will take money away. The huge corporations that the TPers supports wants cowards because that is where the money is made. Like food stamps JP Morgan runs that the more people on food stamps the more money for JP. So instead of the TPers pointing at the government crying you are causing the problems should look at the corporations they support and see that they are the ones that turned the government into what it is today and turned America into a shambles so they could make more money.

You are so wrong! Government is run by the corporate and banking elite and these people don't give a dam
about tax payers! They want indentured servitude that will join the military and fight their dirty wars for a
pay check! Taxes no longer matter to those that control, cause theirs is a debt based society intent on controlling
every aspect of commerce, individualism and compliance! After all what is a couple of billion in lost tax revenue when it's only fiat money that can easily be printed and infused to those who need it and the debt game pays so much better in servitude! They profit off of every aspect of our lives, from our births, sickness and even our demise! We are peddled like any other farmed animal, only we are way more profitable! Believe it or not makes no difference to me, or our reality!

Oops. Wrong thread.

reply to post by sensibleSenseless


Yep, I chase my tail sometimes. The old moral/ethical dilemma type sort of thing. I question myself constantly, but not to the point of inaction. Eventually I think we all have to make decisions, right or wrong, to move forward out of the rut.

I guess I was lucky. Somehow people knew they could depend on me to move up and did just that. Work ethic? Personnality? maybe both? I don't really know. I believe that it is called "Networking" nowadays.

One thing I learned in the military that really does apply to the real world is if that someone thinks that you can do a job, they'll put you into it without even asking for your input. It's a learn or burn enviroment. It's also a great way of getting rid of the #bags. Somehow I have survived my test by fire and came out out of it a tad bit wiser...though singed.

Of course we have all seen people in positions that they have no business being in, due to family connections or the company foisting them off on another dept. because their previous super was to lazy to write the reviews or maybe...train the individual?

There is a part of me that says. "If this Rockhead can succeed, so can you." To many people these days are looking at what the company can do for them, not the other way around.

Ask not what your Country can do for you, but ask what can you do for your Country.

It works the same way on the business end of things.

sensibleSenseless
Oops. Wrong thread.

edit on 4-12-2013 by sensibleSenseless because: last line

Well crap! And here I've already replied.

reply to post by TDawgRex


It was actually a mistake on my part - I criticized something you mentioned without looking closely enough.

I certainly appreciate what you are doing. Though, if we were to dispute something here, I'd lose by default... since I wouldn't have enough time set aside to keep at it or the tenacity.

I do agree that persistence pays off in this world - I'm quite the persistent individual myself - though I don't sport a lot to show for it - whole different story.

That being said, I believe that the economy is in a manner of speaking on its way out the door. It is more likely because it is a sort of monopoly game (IMHO)... where cheaters do exist (again IMHO - some agree, others disagree, there is a whole other discussion there). I say this not with the intent of providing an excuse for anyone - just as a matter of fact that it is becoming a harder and harder world to live in - and many are not going to make it - not necessarily because of lack of willingness to compete either. I've had my own experiences of racism leveled at me as well as the plain fact that many jobs with many people lined up for them, means you have to be that much more on the edge - how do we apply that to the 5000 lined up outside a Walmart for the 20 jobs they advertised - I don't know.

It is fair to say that some of us are temporarily at an advantage over others. We can't paint everyone's picture with one stroke of the brush.

But, I agree, there is no letting up - people have to do, what they have to do - it is their lives they are protecting. I also agree that collecting welfare has been compared to getting a job - but the government doesn't provide all opportunities - if it is properly used, welfare is supposed to be a means for people to hang on while getting their foot in a door somewhere. (again not saying that everyone does that with welfare, although I have personally).

It is my personal opinion that people may have to do what you mentioned - which is to resort to farming - if they can find the means to attain such a position (don't personally know what that entails or what level of investment is required to actually get the rubber to hit the road). Hopefully, I will be able to tag along with my relatives who are more adept at farming and have potential options to do so, if/when such a situation arrives.

There are survival forums here, and it looks to be pretty cutting edge though. Something I might have considered working through had I not believed that other options might work out for me.

reply to post by sensibleSenseless


It's all good. A friend of mine recently turned me onto "Alaska: The Last Frontier". I'm no fan of reality shows at all. But this one struck a chord in me. It reminded me of how I was raised. Maybe because of the way I was raised and my earlier hardships is why I refuse to give up. Maybe it's a form of PTSD, but in a good way. I've always realized that life is not fair. While discussing this show, I called the the Kilchner clan Conservative Hippies and it dawned on me that I just described myself.

I've been told that I could give lessons in stubborness to donkeys...if only there were money in that.

I don't like making enemies, nor having them. And I do realize that my mindset and personallity do rub some the wrong way...sorry about that, but I will change only at my pace, not theirs.

But I am looking to change, back to the old ways. Just like that show. I think that I lost my way in the hard scrabble to gain a better life. But I'll be honest. It's hard to return to another lifestyle after living a totally different one, even when it's one you know. It's easier when you're young, but harder when you are older. (That's a hard one to explain...did you get it?)

But there is always something in me that'll probably never change. And that is my disdain for people who blame others for their own shortcomings. People who have essentially given up. I'll give up when I die.

Other than that. You have a good life and a happy holiday season.

Hey TDawg,

I believe I understood what you've written and I wholly agree.

I'm similar in nature.... though, I can understand the urge to give up.

I feel it is important for people to meet others who can help lead them... that is important in my books because I don't believe that people should be on their own. I personally have an intense desire to help others achieve better things in life - though not at the expense of my own, of course.

I'm not making an excuse for people to say, it was because someone didn't understand them - yet I believe that this may be literally true.

A society that cares about the others in it is one that works. When you live in a society that feels that everyone has to fend only for his/her own interests, that is when that society lands in trouble - because no one then takes up the cause of general needs or leadership either - leaders become disdained, and their importance thrown out of an organized societal means to survive. Continuing to live the life we currently espouse is very dependent on the organization you belong to at the highest levels.

Here, some people reason that we belong to a global society and others reason that we belong to a country, but mostly we reason that we are stuck with having to separate ourselves from an understanding of what the general public is going through, and while blaming is easy but ineffective, yet working together is so-o-o-o-o important. That is why things might break down to the point of being able to recognize and directly talk to the highest leaders in charge of helping each and every one of us in our future aspirations and collective goals.

So, I don't see any respite from the system breaking apart any time soon.

reply to post by sensibleSenseless


All those eloquent paragraphs to say basically one thing...You can you lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

No offense.

I think that the main problem is that we are all individuals. We can't change that without communication. But if some one wanted me to join a commune that at the same time required me to give up my free will. I would end up fighting them with everything I had.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

reply to post by TDawgRex


So the road to heaven is paved with.... selfishness/bad intentions?

I don't understand, you don't like rules? Don't we live under the rule of law? Isn't your free will limited by laws/rules?

sensibleSenseless
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

So the road to heaven is paved with.... selfishness/bad intentions?

I don't understand, you don't like rules? Don't we live under the rule of law? Isn't your free will limited by laws/rules?

Nope...my free will is mine to yield as I see fit. As for the first sentence, it ain't that either. As far as laws go, I have a tendency to go five miles over the speed limit. I'm obviously flaunting the law in that case. But I've never gotten a ticket for such...and if I ever do, more than likely, I'll pay the fine.

No, I don't like rules or laws when they contradict each other or go against common sense.

Cool. You like being on the same side.

I understand - So do I.

Road to heaven is paved with planned good intentions. Planning is necessary. That's what leaders who care do for people they care for.

sensibleSenseless
Road to heaven is paved with planned good intentions. Planning is necessary. That's what leaders who care do for people they care for.

I don't believe that there is a road to other than the one we blaze on our own. But that is beside the point.

All to often, politicians, managers, etc, put forth a sound argument for the way forward, but all to often it is couched in terms that sound good but in the long run only benefits them and them alone or their agenda.

We see that daily.

They rule through emotion, not critical thought. And as a populace, we are as guilty as well. The few voices that cry out are ignored.