Pope Francis - Do not be fooled by false messiahs

reply to post by WarminIndy

I think the idol worship is more than just statues.

I agree, you can make an idol of anything or anyone, a christmas tree for example. we all think if it feels good do it, really we should need none of the add ons if we had faith. We would need to look at no false representations of Christ, nor kiss another fake piece of the cross...we would need nothing for the eye or hand but only our hearts clean and pure.

Paul would approve without hesitation the command of God found in Jeremiah that condemned the worshipping of trees and the celebration of astronomical solstices and equinoxes that the heathen used in their worship services.

“Thus says the Lord, ‘Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it moves not.’”

Jeremiah 10:2–4

www.askelm.com...

Fraudfinder
From the last sentence in your post you make it clear that you are not Christian.

Dead wrong. A christian doesn't have to buy into the Old Testament or the writings of 'followers' like St. Paul in order to believe in Jesus. And a Christian doesn't have to take the bible literally. In fact, much of the bible shouldn't be .. it's allegorical, myth and folklore.

You want to argue not debate.

Says the person who can't take that someone disagrees with his beliefs.

Find someone else to argue with.

Coward. Your beliefs aren't the 'only one that is right'.

I did die on 4 July 2013 and I came back.

So did all these people -
www.nderf.org...
They were alive. They were awake.
They were aware of what was going on around them with the living.
Different people have different Near Death Experiences.

Fraudfinder
The reason I ask is because there are Christians who hear a voice from the dead that is a family member or friend and it is not them but an evil spirit. They hear this voice either inside their head or audible.

YOU believe that it is an evil spirit.
That doesn't mean that's a fact.
That's just your beliefs.

I have had three encounters with the Divine in my soul. Once the Holy Spirit. Once God the Father. And once Mary. When you 'hear' them in your soul, it's not imagination or evil .. it's VERY real and it's not anything that can be explained with words.

I really feel pity for *please don't be offended* for the following people...

People that watch and wait for celebrity information.

People that treat celebrity as gods.

People that copy celebrity clothing.

People that look up to or worship a politician.

People that wear jersey that says someone else's name on it.

People that tattoo a celebrity name or another human name (spouse/loved ones exception)



PRETTY MUCH ANYONE THAT PUTS A HUMAN ABOVE ANOTHER HUMAN!

HUGE Quote Removed by Staff

I bet you have been waiting for my response, haven't you? Maybe you think I am mad or upset but I am not.

At first I thought I would not respond to your comments but my response is not just for you but for others.

So I guess you don't love me? LOL

You know I stopped calling people names when I was ten years old. You need to learn this.

Calling me a coward shows your character and you should be ashamed of yourself. Here you judge me and I have not judged you or anyone else. I have a right to speak just like anyone else. If you don't like what I have to say that is fine but calling someone names is childish.

I let my NO be NO and my YES be YES. When I correct someone this is not judging but what you do is shameful.

You are not a Christian. I have read your threads. You do not help a Christian grow and mature but you hold them back. You place doubt into the Christian mind. A Christian does not say the things you say about the bible......that it is it's allegorical, myth and folklore among other things you state. The vomit that spews from your mouth tells me you have NOT met God and I know this by the way you talk about Christian teachings. You do not fool me.

You heard God in your soul? The same with the Holy Spirit but yet you speak blasphemy about Christianity, the bible and its teachings. Anyone with the spirit of decernment can see your statements are not from God or for that fact from heaven. You contradict one another. This was not God or the Holy Spirit speaking to you. Believe what you want to believe. Like I often say, "Heaven is not for everyone".

So you have NOT met him, have you?

I have met him face to face, would you like a description of him? How he looks? How tall, his build, his skin color, the color of his eyes etc? I bet you would. Those who have met God knows how God looks like and can describe him very clearly.

So I died and came back... are you jealous? I mention this and look at how you react. I happen to know many NDE'S are lies and deception......not all of course BUT someone who has met God knows how he looks like and can give an exact detail of how he looks.

You tried to bully me in this post and it will not work.

I will pray for you and ask that God send the Holy Spirit to you so you can look upon God. Maybe then you will understand what zealous is.#

ADDED LATER: I forgot to add, in 1999 I met the Holy Spirit in person. Not tooting my horn just thought you might want to know.

FlyersFan

lonewolf19792000
That's funny, he could be speaking about himself.

I knew one of you fundamentalist types would say that.


AS FOR WHAT HE SAID .... beware false messiahs like the rock star type politicians ...
Those are good words of advice. Especially to the young crowd who got so easily
hyped up on Obama. What happens when someone comes along who can do magic
tricks and promises them the moon .... another false messiah, but this one might
be even more dangerous.

The shoe fits. Just sayin'.

Papacy has enough allegory surrounding it, all we have to do is sit back and read between the lines.

BTW what does "Pope" mean? And where did "Pontifex Maximus" come from that the word "Pontif? is derived from, hm?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

BTW what does "Pope" mean?

From the Latin, it means father.

And where did "Pontifex Maximus" come from that the word "Pontif? is derived from, hm?

What difference does that make? "Pontifex Maximus" is not an official title of the Pope (neither is "Pope", for that matter.)

The pope's proper title, according to the Vatican's website, is Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God. (Source)

The fact that there is similarity between titles between old Roman religion and Catholicism is due to them both being created in the same language -- the leader of the Catholic church has a similar role to someone who led a Pagan church, but that doesn't mean that one is derivative of another. The President of the United States and the President of Uruguay are radically different people, but they're both President.

REMINDER of what the topic is ....

Vatican Insider - Pope Francis - Do not be fooled by false messiahs

Today’s Gospel passage described how Jesus addressed the people of Jerusalem who were commenting on the temple and how beautiful it was and urged them to pay attention to the “real issues” and not to secondary aspects. The Pope highlighted the pertinence today of the words pronounced by the Son of God “even for us who live in the XXI century.” Francis called for “discernment” and urged faithful to “understand the difference between the spirit of the Lord and the spirit of evil.” “Take heed that you not be deceived. Many will come in my name," Francis said.

“Even today, in fact, there are false “saviours", who attempt to substitute leaders of this world, holy men , even sorcerers for Jesus, people who want to attract hearts and minds, especially of young people, to themselves. Jesus warns us: "Do not follow them". And the Lord also helps us to not be afraid when faced with wars, revolutions, but also to natural disasters, epidemics, Jesus frees us from fatalism and false apocalyptic visions.”

AND A NOTE .... I am not waiting in breathless anticipation to hear what any judgmental yutz thinks about me. I simply don't care.

Majestic Lumen
Why is it, every time a thread like this comes up, non-Catholic Christians attack Catholicism, going on about how this or that is wrong, incorrect etc.. I never see Catholics chime in to tell non-Catholic Christians what they're doing wrong, how to practice Christianity properly etc...

I only ever see Atheists attack Christianity, but in general, and whether that is right or wrong, I can understand, what I don't understand is the Christian "we're right and you're wrong" mentality. Instead of having tolerance and trying to understand. All I know is this, no matter who you are, Christian, Catholic, Atheist, Jewish, Muslim etc... NOBODY has all the answers.

Slowly the thread has been deceptively derailed. And in my observation that is what I get out of these threads.

I am not an atheist and I question Christian understanding of their bible very often and see it as duality brainwashing and have the same issue with what i call self biased miss understanding.

The whole Jesus thing for me becomes an idol worshiping and duality is added by Paul opposite of what I think Jesus taught and all the others teachers for instance Rumi, Krishna, Nanek and Buddha.

Not true that nobody has the answers. Find them for yourself. Many people on this planet now days know the spiritual world not by faith but have real experiance. But reading all views give you more information since the parts make a bigger whole than the parts (both science and all human religions).

FlyersFan
REMINDER of what the topic is ....

Vatican Insider - Pope Francis - Do not be fooled by false messiahs

Today’s Gospel passage described how Jesus addressed the people of Jerusalem who were commenting on the temple and how beautiful it was and urged them to pay attention to the “real issues” and not to secondary aspects. The Pope highlighted the pertinence today of the words pronounced by the Son of God “even for us who live in the XXI century.” Francis called for “discernment” and urged faithful to “understand the difference between the spirit of the Lord and the spirit of evil.” “Take heed that you not be deceived. Many will come in my name," Francis said.

“Even today, in fact, there are false “saviours", who attempt to substitute leaders of this world, holy men , even sorcerers for Jesus, people who want to attract hearts and minds, especially of young people, to themselves. Jesus warns us: "Do not follow them". And the Lord also helps us to not be afraid when faced with wars, revolutions, but also to natural disasters, epidemics, Jesus frees us from fatalism and false apocalyptic visions.”

AND A NOTE .... I am not waiting in breathless anticipation to hear what any judgmental yutz thinks about me. I simply don't care.

edit on 11/19/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

FLYERSFAN: I will soon be finished with my white paper on Christianity which I think you will find interesting packed with new information. I will send you a copy for your review.

LittleByLittle
The whole Jesus thing for me becomes an idol worshiping and duality is added by Paul opposite of what I think Jesus taught and all the others teachers for instance Rumi, Krishna, Nanek and Buddha.

I've met/talked to a lot of Christians who aren't fans of St. Paul. Oh .. you brought up Buddha. Some of the teachings of Jesus are the same as Buddha. Have you ever seen a side by side of them?? teachings One of the biggies ... Jesus died for the sins of others, and Buddha said 'let the sins of the world fall on me'.

FlyersFan

LittleByLittle
The whole Jesus thing for me becomes an idol worshiping and duality is added by Paul opposite of what I think Jesus taught and all the others teachers for instance Rumi, Krishna, Nanek and Buddha.

I've met/talked to a lot of Christians who aren't fans of St. Paul. Oh .. you brought up Buddha. Some of the teachings of Jesus are the same as Buddha. Have you ever seen a side by side of them?? teachings One of the biggies ... Jesus died for the sins of others, and Buddha said 'let the sins of the world fall on me'.

They teach non duality in their own way with their own words. What you do to one you do to all, since all things are connected even if we do not always like it.


A little Nanak (Sikhism)

There is neither Hindu nor Mussulman (Muslim) so whose path shall I follow? I shall follow God's path. God is neither Hindu nor Mussulman and the path which I follow is God's.

Nanak said that he had been taken to God's court.
There, he was offered a cup filled with amrita (nectar) and given the command,
"This is the cup of the adoration of God's name. Drink it. I am with you. I bless you and raise you up. Whoever remembers you will enjoy my favour. Go, rejoice of my name and teach others to do so. I have bestowed the gift of my name upon you. Let this be your calling."

Even Kings and emperors with heaps of wealth and vast dominion cannot compare with an ant filled with the love of God.

God is one, but he has innumerable forms. He is the creator of all and He himself takes the human form.

I am neither a child, a young man, nor an ancient; nor am I of any caste.

A little Rumi

“What can I do, Muslims? I do not know myself.
I am neither Christian nor Jew, neither Magian nor Muslim,
I am not from east or west, not from land or sea,
not from the shafts of nature nor from the spheres of the firmament,
not of the earth, not of water, not of air, not of fire.
I am not from the highest heaven, not from this world,
not from existence, not from being.
I am not from India, not from China, not from Bulgar, not from Saqsin,
not from the realm of the two Iraqs, not from the land of Khurasan.
I am not from the world, not from beyond,
not from heaven and not from hell.
I am not from Adam, not from Eve, not from paradise and not from Ridwan.
My place is placeless, my trace is traceless,
no body, no soul, I am from the soul of souls.
I have chased out duality, lived the two worlds as one.
One I seek, one I know, one I see, one I call.
He is the first, he is the last, he is the outer, he is the inner.
Beyond He and He is I know no other.
I am drunk from the cup of love, the two worlds have escaped me.
I have no concern but carouse and rapture.
If one day in my life I spend a moment without you
from that hour and that time I would repent my life.
If one day I am given a moment in solitude with you
I will trample the two worlds underfoot and dance forever.
O Sun of Tabriz, I am so tipsy here in this world,
I have no tale to tell but tipsiness and rapture.”

Many servants many views one god that is the source of the servants.

reply to post by Fraudfinder


FraudFinder

How is a Christian made? I have to ask this, because it is very important to the conversation.

Doesn't the Bible say "If thou believest in thy heart and confess with thy mouth, the Lord Jesus Christ, then thou shalt be saved"?

Does FlyersFan believe in her heart and does she confess with her mouth the Lord Jesus Christ? We can't preach that from our pulpits and then say it does not apply to someone else if they are living up to those two conditions.

Romans 10:9 says this, and you should know this very well. I don't know FlyersFan personally and we have had many disagreements, but if FlyersFan believes in her heart and confesses with her mouth that she believe Jesus was raised from the dead, then she shall be saved.

Then who are you and I to not say she is saved. Brother, you can't preach this verse in church any more if you can't accept someone else's confession with their mouth. The next time you hear a preacher say this in church, you better get up and walk out.

If FlyersFan believes in her heart and confesses with her mouth, she shall be saved. As simple as that. I have to accept it. I might not agree with every point of doctrine, but I have to accept that she has confessed with her mouth and believed in her heart that Jesus was raised from the dead.

HUGE Quote Removed by Staff

You make a good point however may I ask you a question. Can you lose your salvation?

P.S. Thank you for calling me your brother because I know you are a Christian. The Holy Spirit has shown me.

reply to post by adjensen

Until you can prove that Roman Catholics think that the Pope's ring is a god, and worship it as such, your quote is barking up the wrong tree

No he was talking about any idols, he mentions likenesses of Jesus correct or otherwise. You do not have to think something or someone is a God in order to make an idol of them/it.

I doubt the guys in the redwood grove with their owl think that is a god, it is still idolatry.

The heart is really led astray by objects that "help" with worship. there should be no need of such things.

reply to post by Char-Lee


I don't know why you're still going on about this.

The Roman Catholic church explicitly teaches against the worship of anything other than God. The Pope is not God, the Pope's ring is not God, no one believes that they are (well, no one sane, that is,) no one is worshiping the Pope or his ring, and if they were, they would be acting contrary to church teaching.

Period. Barring any evidence that people worship the Pope or his ring as God, you have no point to make.

The heart is really led astray by objects that "help" with worship. there should be no need of such things.

If something brings a person closer to God, whether that be a crucifix, a painting, a hymn or anything else, how is that a bad thing?

Do you think heaven will look more like a Catholic church or more like a Puritan church?

Somehow, I doubt it will bear much resemblance to this:

Char-Lee
The heart is really led astray by objects that "help" with worship. there should be no need of such things.

And yet Jesus Himself wore the tassels of a Rabbi on his garment and he used phylacteries when in prayer. And the priests in the temple in Jesus time burned incense during prayers. So I guess Jesus really shouldn't have been wearing those prayer objects or being around the burning incense, right?

reply to post by adjensen


wellll, since you are the temple of god, not a church building, it will look like you to you. hehe

you asked for that one. no, you really did.