Pope Francis - Do not be fooled by false messiahs

Char-Lee
Why were the people kneeling to this man? Even angels in many scriptures said do not kneel down to me but only god.

Catholics do not worship the pope. The Catechism is very clear ... worship belongs to God alone.

Caver78
No place in the post did Charlie refer to catholics worshiping the pope.

It was inferred.

Sorry it WASN'T inferred, at least to me. Kneeling isn't automatically worshiping. As much as I don't agree with the Vatican it's "something" at least that Francis called people out to be mindful of false prophets.

reply to post by Caver78


She said this:

herself and her family knelt down, they cried, they prayed. Why were the people kneeling to this man? Even angels in many scriptures said do not kneel down to me but only god.

and then followed that with the scripture, which says that the angel said not to worship them, but only worship God, implying that these people who knelt when meeting the Pope were worshiping him, along with whatever the ring business was supposed to signify.

If that wasn't the point she was making, then she was making no point at all.

Catholics do not worship the Pope and they do not worship Mary, two absolute untruths that some misguided and misinformed Protestants claim.

reply to post by FlyersFan


That's interesting.

I feel that in a roundabout way I've been working at bringing to light the very same issues in these two threads here at ATS.

The Weight of Glory

Why famous (and "powerful") people may have difficulties, in Heaven.

And just to be clear my monicur "NewAgeMan" is an expression of the Messianic hope and expectation for a global redemption or the coming of the age of reason and Spirit, and of the Spirit and the Bride (spirit of God and man conjoined) and the free flowing of the living water available to all who thirst. It's the hope that we might be able to get to and realize the happy ending depicted on the last page of the Bible.

Best Regards,

NAM aka Bob (in all humility)

adjensen
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

The ring is a mark of the papacy and, according to Smith, kissing it is a sign of respect and affection.

Worship only God!

Unless English is your second language, you should be well aware that "respect and affection" and "worship" are two significantly different actions, so by your own quoted material, your claim that Catholics worship the Pope is an invalid one.

Now, I don't know what religion you profess, but as a Roman Catholic, I believe that intentionally misrepresenting others is sinful behaviour, called "lying". There's even a pesky Commandment against it. So you might want to review your materials, your morality, and rethink whether lying about others is really in the best interests of whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish.

Saying the word respect does not change the facts. They show adoration to this object, the idolize this object along with it's owner.

i·dol
ˈīdl/Submit
noun
1.
an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship.
synonyms: icon, representation of a god, image, effigy, statue, figure, figurine, fetish, totem; More
a person or thing that is greatly admired, loved, or revered.
"movie idol Robert Redford"
synonyms: hero, heroine, star, superstar, icon, celebrity; More
Origin

More
Middle English: from Old French idole, from Latin idolum ‘image, form’ (used in ecclesiastical Latin in the sense ‘idol’), from Greek eidōlon, from eidos ‘form, shape.’
Translate idol to
Use over time for: idol

reply to post by Char-Lee


No one worships the Pope's ring.

Again, you are misrepresenting, intentionally now, what another group of Christians does, says and teaches. What is your goal in this misrepresentation?

adjensen
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

No one worships the Pope's ring.

Again, you are misrepresenting, intentionally now, what another group of Christians does, says and teaches. What is your goal in this misrepresentation?

What do you think it takes to idolize an object or person?

un·i·dol·ized, adjective

Synonyms
1. adore, treasure, worship, dote upon.

Ex 20:3-4 (NIV) "You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."

1 Jn 5:21 (NIV) Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

1 Cor 10:14 (NIV) Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.

Why do people need all the pretties and gold and fancy robes? Why is not the unseen Father enough.
Why would a spokesman of god not be like the rich man that Jesus instructed.

Think there is no room for error.

i'm a fundie in certain ways and not a fundie, in others. one thing i'd like to call attention to is the use of objects for the purpose of faith building. the old testament jehovah was mostly against the idea of statues, of anything, particularly as they applied to worship or adoration. yet jesus employed the use of objects in healing.

for example, the woman who knows she will be healed if she can touch the hem of his garment. now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that that means the pope's robe hems are worthy of worship, however, the key point is, the faith of the person is what is causing the miracle, not the robe, not the ring, not the person wearing the robe or the ring, but the faith in the concept of healing. i'm not saying that the fact jesus was wearing the robe that healed her, isn't significant, of course it is, but the reason it worked for her and maybe not someone else who touched his clothes was her faith. period. end of debate on that one. she wasn't worshipping his robe, let me put it that way.

then there's the use of a watering hole that was generally thought to have special cleansing or healing properties by the jews of the day. jesus used mud from it and his own spit to heal the blind man's vision. not because he needed those things to heal the man but because he knew the man needed those things to build his faith. the power of positive thinking should never be underestimated.

the big question here is, should the popes present themselves as continuously in possession of the only truly holy and miraculous artifacts on the planet? i don't think so, as i don't think the stories of healings and other miracles of jesus were about things, but about faith. that the things encouraged faith to grow, is obvious but those things were never truly needed, as is evidenced by the roman soldier who believed jesus could heal without even being present at the site where the sick person was. no objects required.

reply to post by Char-Lee

What do you think it takes to idolize an object or person?

I don't know why you can't get this through your head, but Roman Catholics do not worship the Pope, his ring, his hat, his chair, or anything else, apart from God.

Here's what the Catechism (official teaching of the church) has to say:

2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them." God, however, is the "living God" who gives life and intervenes in history.

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon." Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast" refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God. (Source)

There you have explicit church teaching, prohibiting worship of anything other than God. End of story.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Funny, the pope goes by the title "Vicar of Christ", vicar comes from the Latin word vicarious which translates "instead of", it is generally accepted within and without the Catholic Church that this title infers that the pope is the replacement for Christ. I propose he is either very confused or vey deceptive.

reply to post by adjensen


Why then do Catholics pray to Mary and dozens of Saints? Just as Jesus told the lady at the well when she claimed to worship the god of Abraham, you know not what you worship.

I am of the christian faith and see little difference from the catholic to the no denominations and baptist and Methodist. Baptist claim to only adhere to the king James bible and pray over an alter. The methodist in the same use things for symbolic meaning and venues for us to pray. In the end most men are idolizers of money, pleasure and power.

I am just as guilty of this. I can remember a time in my life where money had no bearing on the life i lived. In a way, most of humanity are victims to idolatry. What we do each day as a whole but to excel to advance our society in the essence of gaining power and fame. I was thinking last night long and hard trying to figure out who i was really was and how ive been lost for many years not for money, power and fame but acceptance.


Do you know who you really are?

reply to post by FlyersFan


Imho, the Pope's words are intended to strike at the heart of the satanic world system, which I've recently discerned is based on an attempted theft of God's glory which was given to us through Jesus Christ as the Head, and which worships or idolizes the creature (horn sign) instead of the Creator and which is after self glorification or the misuse of the idea of self glorification through a sales-hierarchy which commands attention or a focal point of awareness, to attract followers. It's a misdirection in other words, who's aim it is to basically substitute God's glory for one's own.

Much of the advertising world, movies, pop idols, superstar politicians, corporate greed and all manner of overt and cover manipulation of the masses by "PTB" and wicked "powers and principalities" would fall into this category.

It's an attempted inversion of God's kingdom, by attempting to shift it's focal point to the earth plane instead of above in the heavenly one, while glorifying the creature, and the self, instead of the creator, and the other, where the true glory of God is evenly distributed to one and all based on his love for each and every one of his children, a "domain" wherein there is no possibility for jealousy or covetousness or competition, since everyone celebrates everyone else's mutual glorification and it in turn glorifies themselves also in this same one and wholly good spirit of mutuality and brotherly love, aka koinonia.

So he's saying in other words, watch out for anyone who tries to set themselves up at the head of the table in the context of a hierarchy born of a vain glory sought out in the form of the attention and admiration of followers, because that is not the spirit of Christ who comes only to serve, and not to be served by and who said "if I seek only my own glory then that is no glory at all!"

When you really and seriously consider this all the way through, what you will discover, as I have, in a careful and close examination, with discernment, of the satanic world system - is that in making this attempt, all they've managed to really accomplish was/is to hand the last laugh over to Christ as God and all God's children, at the devil's expense.

The weight of God's glory crushes and breaks the back of our pride and vanity and in so doing re-builds us up, authentically. It's actually quite humorous, for those who can see it and who discern with wisdom and the spirit of truth.

reply to post by yamammasamonkey


Catholics pray an intercessory prayer, as regards Mary and the Saints -- it isn't a worshipful prayer, it is you asking them to pray for you, just like you might ask a friend or a pastor to pray for you.

reply to post by adjensen


i think the issue is mostly in the particulars, such as rosaries and statues and the ilk. there's nothing specifically wrong with statues. there's nothing specifically wrong with rosaries. but they are extraneous.
you don't need them in order to be forgiven or have faith. you can still have faith and forgiveness with them, as they have no power of their own to remove your faith or forgiveness, but it's just icing on a cake that is already frosted.

in that way, i see no real harm from the use of those items, but rather consider the recommended usage of them in faith building, on an ongoing basis, as unnecessary. it would be akin to jesus saying everyone should have a robe with his name on it, hanging in their cathedral or church, which sick people then go to touch the hem of. kinda silly if you think about. it was never his robe that healed the woman. the text makes that clear.

reply to post by adjensen


"Every sinner has a future, and every saint, a past."
~ Oscar Wilde

reply to post by undo


I agree, they are unnecessary. They are aids to worship, not the means of worship, or the object of worship. A rosary? It's just a bunch of beads that helps you keep track of which prayer you're on -- I don't use one, I keep count on my fingers, lol.

reply to post by adjensen


can you explain the whole "which prayer you're on" thing? i mean, do you compile a list of things you want to pray about or do you have like a list of official predesignated prayers you recite?

reply to post by undo


www.rosary-center.org...

I think Frank is trying His best to bring folks back to The Church™ If folks would act properly to other "living beings" does it matter who brought the message? If it came down to listening to Frank and then acting appropriately, I type "I'm ALL for it" If the person listens to the message and doesn't attend a Church™ and still improves their actions ? again, I'm ALL for it.

He is a very intelligent, learned Man who is doing His best. I don't think He has an 'angle' in anything He does. I was raised a Catholic™ and feel like many that have posted re:"profits before prophets". Maybe something is "brewing" or He was rummaging through the Vatican Library and found something interesting??? That, we don't KNOW but I don't feel Pope Frank deserves any criticism for this particular incident...

namaste