Legal Experts: Even TOTALLY INNOCENT People Should Avoid Talking to Law Enforcement

g146541
reply to post by redoubt

 

Actually no, you have NEVER been required to deal with any organization.
Remember, "you have the right to remain silent".
A few months back my wife and I were involved in a minor fender bender in a parking lot where an old gal hit us, no injuries other than chipped paint and a minor bump.
The insurance company called me a few times to get my "side" of the story and I told them, "your customer hit me, now fix my car".
They all went on to tell me how being a legal process yada yada yada Etc...
I told them, the fact is I was hit, and you are the insurer, pay up!
Long story short, my car is fixed and we had a rental for a week, no out of pocket expense to us.
You have the RIGHT to remain silent.

If there was nothing criminal in this "fender bender," why did you need to exercise your rights under Miranda or the 5th Amendment? A simple accident has nothing to do with the police (most departments won't even respond anymore to a non-injury vehicle accident, some will just to assist with a report for insurance purposes and to make sure traffic isn't impeded or citizens endangered by the aftermath of the accident). It's a civil issue unless something else pops (like you or the other driver were intoxicated, someone was in the on-coming lane, someone ran a stop sign, etc...)
In fact, in your insurance policy there is probably some verbage requiring you to give a statement of the facts regarding the incident for you to even have coverage in the first place.

I really agree with this one.

If you are ever in a situation where you could even remotely be accused of any crime, the best thing to do is say nothing until you talk to a lawyer.

I would even go as far to say unless someone's life is at risk, never say anything even if you aren't the subject.

I once reported something non-violent. At the end of the process, I was sorry I said something. I was interviewed for five hours over two days. It was me in a small room with two other investigators. It was a very uncomfortable process. I don't think people realize how difficult something like this can be even if you didn't do anything wrong.

Based on some of the questions, it was obvious they investigated ME before the interview. Highly structured questions and many were irrelevant - a few seemed to be disguised insults. I realized later, I never really had a chance to talk about everything I felt was important. I really wished I had an attorney with me - not because I did anything wrong but I needed someone to look at for my rights.

I'm glad at least I declined their request to tape the interview.

BTW Absolutely nothing happened as a result of my complaint. Six months later, I hear on the news the same group was involved in another scandal.

35Foxtrot
[
If there was nothing criminal in this "fender bender," why did you need to exercise your rights under Miranda or the 5th Amendment? A simple accident has nothing to do with the police (most departments won't even respond anymore to a non-injury vehicle accident, some will just to assist with a report for insurance purposes and to make sure traffic isn't impeded or citizens endangered by the aftermath of the accident). It's a civil issue unless something else pops (like you or the other driver were intoxicated, someone was in the on-coming lane, someone ran a stop sign, etc...)
In fact, in your insurance policy there is probably some verbage requiring you to give a statement of the facts regarding the incident for you to even have coverage in the first place.

I would say even in a civil case, if possible, do not give a statement until you had a chance to talk to a lawyer. Right after an accident, many times people are really emotional and can't give enough important details.

Daughter2

35Foxtrot
[
If there was nothing criminal in this "fender bender," why did you need to exercise your rights under Miranda or the 5th Amendment? A simple accident has nothing to do with the police (most departments won't even respond anymore to a non-injury vehicle accident, some will just to assist with a report for insurance purposes and to make sure traffic isn't impeded or citizens endangered by the aftermath of the accident). It's a civil issue unless something else pops (like you or the other driver were intoxicated, someone was in the on-coming lane, someone ran a stop sign, etc...)
In fact, in your insurance policy there is probably some verbage requiring you to give a statement of the facts regarding the incident for you to even have coverage in the first place.

I would say even in a civil case, if possible, do not give a statement until you had a chance to talk to a lawyer. Right after an accident, many times people are really emotional and can't give enough important details.

Oh, no. I agree with you. I was just confused about this situation and the poster talking about his/her "right" to remain silent and applying it to this thread about talking to the police despite Miranda and the 5th Amendment. It's a civil issue. An issue wherein he/she most likely signed away his/her right(s) to remain silent if you want coverage...

But, sure. Anyone can remain silent with anyone they want. I didn't think that was the point of the thread though.

This is not a joke. I'm fighting a legal case right now where the police ended up searching our house because they tricked us into giving them permission, and the warrant that they used to get into the house in the first place was one to arrest one of my room-mates for not turning in paperwork, we think that they were attempting to do a raid on our house, but found hardly anything in it -

My attorney filed for discovery in the case, and the police report had factually incorrect data, some of the evidence the police officers took ended up missing, I was cited for owning contraband that I had never claimed, and the police audio (which by law was supposed to be on) was "off" due to "low battery power."

-----

Not only that, I have been pulled over around 10 times in the past year for strange reasons, one time, I was even given a test to see if I was drunk, which I passed, because I was sober.

-----

My aunt is a defense attorney, and I asked her about the Federal Agencies and State Police being trained to re-write how they got information from roving N.S.A. wire-taps (which violate the 4th amendment because they do not target a specific person or place, and use no warrant to begin with) and she said you have to file for discovery -

However, based on my legal case, the police lie on their discovery reports.

This is not a joke. And at this point, all of us have violated one law or another, as the O.P. stated.Even if we haven't, just because we are on A.T.S. we might be on some kind of watch list.

The police could also quite literally even try to entrap any one of us at any time, when we would much rather be left alone and not be bothered by pesky criminals trying to get us to do illegal things for them so they can arrest us.

Daughter2

35Foxtrot
[
If there was nothing criminal in this "fender bender," why did you need to exercise your rights under Miranda or the 5th Amendment? A simple accident has nothing to do with the police (most departments won't even respond anymore to a non-injury vehicle accident, some will just to assist with a report for insurance purposes and to make sure traffic isn't impeded or citizens endangered by the aftermath of the accident). It's a civil issue unless something else pops (like you or the other driver were intoxicated, someone was in the on-coming lane, someone ran a stop sign, etc...)
In fact, in your insurance policy there is probably some verbage requiring you to give a statement of the facts regarding the incident for you to even have coverage in the first place.

I would say even in a civil case, if possible, do not give a statement until you had a chance to talk to a lawyer. Right after an accident, many times people are really emotional and can't give enough important details.

You can attempt to talk to the police after a fender-bender, but it could go wrong, for example, one of my friends from college who is a brilliant political science graduate was pulled over once and since it was winter, his hands were shaking, and the police brought extra cars because they thought he was on coc aine or meth.

As for me, I have anxiety, and when the police pull me over for some fabricated reason to do a stop and frisk or whatever, they ask me questions like "Where are you going?" "Where are you coming from?" "What are you doing driving at night?" "Where do you live?" and all this.

I already have bad enough social anxiety. I don't know what could happen. I have been in a situation where the police have thought I was involved in a non-existent drug ring before, and they can ask so many questions that get so confusing sometimes, that I'm not sure what would happen -

They could even try to cover their tracks after they found out they were wrong, as they already did on the police report my lawyer asked for. It's a messy state of affairs.

I risked it once when I had a fender bender, yeah, but Jesus... I don't know... maybe you do have to talk to them to have them facilitate trading insurance information, and the police should be called in the case of an accident but...I don't know what to say.

I would rather be on good terms with the law enforcement officers, but it is hard when they are not following their own laws themselves. I would go so far as to say until law enforcement officers start following the law, I would consider treating them as criminals - which means staying away from them.

--

Another time, my car was licensed in Washington and I was living in Idaho, so the officer gave me a set amount of time to license my car or else I would get a fine I could not afford, but the car was licensed to my parents and there was not enough time to get the paperwork done before his date...

Luckily my attorney had the date extended...

Here it is...the best legal advice you could ever take without even paying for it. Straight from the mouths of the ones who play the game daily.

reply to post by RickyD


This video was included in the OP at the articles source but thank you for the more visible link window.

-Amitabha-

reply to post by Eryiedes


It's been posted here numerous times but it should honestly be posted front page more often...valuable info in this one here.

ETA: I feel like I've seen this guy in a court room before...I lived in Virginia Beach and graced a court room or two in my day

There are a couple of interesting speeches given by a policeman and a constitutional lawyer. I think it is called "never speak to the police." You might want to watch them to truly understand why it is never, ever in YOUR best interest to talk with the police. Remember, what is in YOUR best interest is the only place to start. Why do you care if the police do their job, the do not care about you at all, not one bit. They meet THOUSANDS of people a week, you mean NOTHING to them at all - nothing. You must do what is best for you and a case, a complaint, a incident where you have nothing on record is nearly always better for you.

The police are trained to lie, coerce and mislead. You are obliged to tell the truth? There is no law that says a LEO must be honest with you - none. In fact, there is no internal policy either, and this does not make people leery of them?

If you speak to a policeman and make a mistake, you will find that mistake will be used against you, as you cannot ever, ever, every take it back. So why speak freely if you know that no matter what your words will be distorted, twisted, and take out of context?

The police do not work for you at all, they work for another company altogether, so one should be knowledgeable about loyalties.

"I was there at 5 o'clock," does not mean the same thing in court as "I arrived at 5 o'clock." If you do not know what things mean in court, or how things can be interpreted in court, you need to shut up.

As for making statements. It is amazing to me how many people just think because someone says, "you have to" this means "you have to." I had an insurance woman from the guy who hit me call and say, "I need to talk to you, you need to tell me what happened." I said "really, where does it say I agreed to that?" She hung up on me and never called back. So I guess, "You have to talk to me" means nothing if I challenge it.

Challenge everything, demand those who make demands of you show you where you agreed to play. Make sure you get things in writing concerning matters that can come back to bite you. If you can't get it in writing, say no. You are an adversary to a great many people, and while sad, and horrible and unfair and truly deplorable, it is true.

reply to post by crankyoldman


Ha, ha. I always tell the kids that if someone official, like a mean teacher at school threatens you like...if you do this, I'll do THAT. Just tell them to put it in writing!

Cops do this, lie that you are criminal to get you to comply with some other whim of theirs....ask for it inwriting. "If I have to come back here tonight, I'll arrest everyone".....put it in writing pig or gtfo.

reply to post by Eryiedes


There is really nothing you can do ...either take it up the arse (as news has it lately ) or fight of a plethora of criminal charges.
I'm leaving this sad country ...it's a sinking ship .

Eryiedes

g146541
You have the RIGHT to remain silent.

Hola,

You certainly DO have the right to remain silent but only AFTER they have read you Miranda.
Until that happens...it's open season unless you invoke the 5th.

-Amitbha-

The right to silence is an inalienable right, you can exercise it whenever you wish.
You know the bit where they say "you have the right to remain silent..." you had the right the whole time they are just informing you that anything you say from now on will be used against you.

reply to post by AmberLeaf


Not according to the supreme court.
Until Miranda is read to you the only way to not answer them legally is to invoke the fifth.
Anything else will be percieved and treated as an admission of guilt in court of law.
We are not free and I am beginning to doubt we ever were.
As bad as things seem now, you will look back on all this in a decade and fondly reminise about how the police ONLY shot children they THOUGHT had a toy gun...or about how they used to only taser the disabled 31 TIMES while strapped to a bed...or that police only raped suspects they felt "deserved" it.
As nightmarish as any of those examples sounded, the only thing the state has in store for humanity will make you long for some good old fashioned police brutality.
Just wait till we start getting sent to FEMA camps for disbelieving state propaganda...

-Amitabha-

reply to post by Eryiedes


I love the name in your signature. Powerful.

BUmmer about the 5th not being stated. It will all work out, we will stay in honor at court.

reply to post by 35Foxtrot


That's the thing, there was no happening other than a minor fender bender.
But the other lady's insurance implied it was the law that I gave a detailed statement.
I did not invoke the 5th or Miranda, I told them, "your customer hit my car, now fix it".
The lady who hit us admitted guilt upfront and was very apologetic about it so they were boned.(the insurance company).
And even if there was verbage in a contract it was not my contract, so...
If it were on mine, I'd require them to punch some sand.
A contract that requires that you surrender your rights, would be null and void anyway, especially if the service given was required, as it is in Kalifornia.
I'm no lawyer, but I'd be willing to live with a little dent and tie it up in court for decades.
I'm retired, I got time.

reply to post by 35Foxtrot

But, sure. Anyone can remain silent with anyone they want. I didn't think that was the point of the thread though.

That is kind of my fault, I expanded the thread meaning by adding in talk to nobody in an official/legal capacity.

There is a book called What Every Body is Saying by ex FBI agent Joe Navarro and it touches on how police have often coerced a false confession out of people either by the pressure of interrogation or misleading questions. It is common for someone who is ignorant to the ways of the police state to either unknowingly confess to something or give a false confession because of trick questions which are often yes or no. I know when I get questioned over anything and especially when asked a yes/no I just simply say I do not understand the question, that way I do not come across to the cop as defiant or trying to hide something.

It amazes me that the majority are still blind to the militarized police the state the US is quickly becoming. While many police officers do look out for the citizens, the system and arrest happy cops will not hesitate the arrest you for anything they can. The fact is most people who get arrested will take a plea deal regardless of guilt and corrupt cops who arrest someone over questionable circumstances are very rarely held accountable but instead often praised for being 'tough on crime.'

Eryiedes
reply to post by AmberLeaf

 

Not according to the supreme court.
Until Miranda is read to you the only way to not answer them legally is to invoke the fifth.
Anything else will be percieved and treated as an admission of guilt in court of law.
We are not free and I am beginning to doubt we ever were.
As bad as things seem now, you will look back on all this in a decade and fondly reminise about how the police ONLY shot children they THOUGHT had a toy gun...or about how they used to only taser the disabled 31 TIMES while strapped to a bed...or that police only raped suspects they felt "deserved" it.
As nightmarish as any of those examples sounded, the only thing the state has in store for humanity will make you long for some good old fashioned police brutality.
Just wait till we start getting sent to FEMA camps for disbelieving state propaganda...

-Amitabha-

edit on 8-11-2013 by Eryiedes because: Typo

edit on 8-11-2013 by Eryiedes because: Re-edit

Ahh you are in the land of the free (sarcasm), i am in England, maybe your laws operate different than to over here, even though we gave you the legal system you operate under.

Inalienable rights cannot be taken, not talking is an inalienable right, they cannot force you to say anything.....unless you are in Guantanamo. You chose to talk to the officers, you dont have to at any point. Your right to remain silent is always, not just when you are told what your rights are.

Even if you are guilty as sin, caught in the act of some crime...you can say nothing, even when apprehended and initially questioned. By them telling you your rights they are ensuring you have a choice, tell us stuff and we will use it against you, or stay silent and we will have to do a load more work.