Legal Experts: Even TOTALLY INNOCENT People Should Avoid Talking to Law Enforcement

Greetings,

Some recent threads have been highlighting police brutality and the ATS audience seems to be split on what purpose the police (ideally) serve.
Many are appologists for the behavior of the ever increasing police state.
Many feel the police are just another corrupted tentacle of the establishment which despises it's peoples freedoms.
Many have no opinion fearing to fall into either camp.
My own feelings on this are a moot point.
There are certain things the public must NEVER do in a police state and legal experts seem to agree on what one of those primary decisions are:

Even TOTALLY INNOCENT People Should Avoid Talking to Law Enforcement

The Supreme Court (or SCOTUS for the acronym minded) has decided that we the people no longer have the right to remain silent.
Due process is dead.
Habeas Corpus is a road block to the ever increasing tyranny of a government fearful of it's citizens.
There are so many laws now in the USA that NO ONE can go 24 hours WITHOUT breaking one and so conversely, the police (on the advice of top legal experts) should be avoided at all costs.
This is NOT a joke.
This is NOT a movie.
This is the story of your enslavement...but it's up to YOU to give this story a happy ending.

www.washingtonsblog.com...

People need to wake up and discover the freedom they were told all humans are "born with" is nothing but an illusion to maintain control over the tax livestock.

-Amitahba-

Eryiedes
Greetings,

Some recent threads have been highlighting police brutality and the ATS audience seems to be split on what purpose the police (ideally) serve.
Many are appologists for the behavior of the ever increasing police state.
Many feel the police are just another corrupted tentacle of the establishment which despises it's peoples freedoms.
Many have no opinion fearing to fall into either camp.
My own feelings on this are a moot point.
There are certain things the public must NEVER do in a police state and legal experts seem to agree on what one of those primary decisions are:

Even TOTALLY INNOCENT People Should Avoid Talking to Law Enforcement

The Supreme Court (or SCOTUS for the acronym minded) has decided that we the people no longer have the right to remain silent.
Due process is dead.
Habeas Corpus is a road block to the ever increasing tyranny of a government fearful of it's citizens.
There are so many laws now in the USA that NO ONE can go 24 hours WITHOUT breaking one and so conversely, the police (on the advice of top legal experts) should be avoided at all costs.
This is NOT a joke.
This is NOT a movie.
This is the story of your enslavement...but it's up to YOU to give this story a happy ending.

www.washingtonsblog.com...

People need to wake up and discover the freedom they were told all humans are "born with" is nothing but an illusion to maintain control over the tax livestock.

-Amitahba-

edit on 7-11-2013 by Eryiedes because: Typo

I just had a dream about this about 5 minutes ago, I dreamt that I had a gun in my bag as I came through the airport, when they returned the bag to me the gun was gone, the policeman asked me what I was doing or intending to do with the gun.

I answered by saying, that It would make no difference how I answered as there was no justice anymore, and they would make up their own story about my intentions. Therefore I would remain silent no matter what they accused me of. I had nothing to say.

reply to post by Eryiedes

The Supreme Court (or SCOTUS for the acronym minded) has decided that we the people no longer have the right to remain silent.
Due process is dead.
Habeas Corpus is a road block to the ever increasing tyranny of a government fearful of it's citizens.
There are so many laws now in the USA that NO ONE can go 24 hours WITHOUT breaking one and so conversely, the police (on the advice of top legal experts) should be avoided at all costs.
This is NOT a joke.
This is NOT a movie.
This is the story of your enslavement...but it's up to YOU to give this story a happy ending.

Personally, I have seen how law enforcement has changed between the 1960s/70s (think Andy of Mayberry and Adam-12) and what we see today. Cops now are more like para-military and their approach is less civil and more about total control. As someone who saw his (late) brother as a cop in Marietta, Ga. (US) and a step-daughter today who recently graduated from police academy, I don't take the subject lightly.

Our concept of 'peace officers' was once quite unique; each city/community had their own force, then there were the state police. We've never had a national police force. The FBI has (or 'had') never tried to overstep. As such, the cops in your town or city were local people who lived as your neighbors. They worked for the same end goals as those who paid taxes that paid them to 'serve and protect'.

That is now history... and unless We the People reverse this trend... we are in for the same kind of experience known to history from Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, etc.

The US Supreme Court was never intended to be a body that could stomp our constitution. Their job was to fill in the gaps the constitution didn't clearly cover. They were the bridge between the federal and the states...

There was a thread here a few nights back where it was submitted that the SCOTUS could legally rip down the 2nd amendment and that the people would be bound to obey. I disagree with that...

reply to post by Eryiedes


Seems like the legal experts are trying to increase their business. If a cop asks me if I know something about something I saw, I will tell him. If you had to get a lawyer because the police charged you as an accessory to a crime, the lawyers would get more work. I have no problem talking to a cop. Most times they are just trying to do their job and investigate something around here.

I am not going to protect someone who robbed a store. If they do not want me as a witness, then they should make sure they do it when I am not there.

If a cop started asking me questions about something and asked where I was at eight oclock on monday, I would have to ask them what he was doing on eight oclock on monday. I don't keep track of what I do if it is not important, that is a waste of braincells.

rickymouse
I don't keep track of what I do if it is not important, that is a waste of braincells.

This is the EXACTLY the reason why you shouldn't speak to the police.
Not only do people not pay attention to what's around them but they pay even less attention to what they SAY as well.
Your own words CAN and WILL be used against you even when you believe you have nothing to hide...even when you are completely innocent...even when you think nothing can go wrong.

(Even your quote, likely now stored in an NSA computer WILL be used against you if this is what the state needs to contradict your testimony or statement.)

This is what all these data collection centres are for. Eventually, whether you believe it or not, your own words WILL be used against you. In a country with more laws than the population of a large city, this is inevitable.
The videos on the website demonstrate this with example after example after example of why this is fallacious thinking.
SCOTUS Judge Robert Jackson is adamant on this topic and he's forgotten more about law than we will ever know.
I wish you the best of luck.

-Amitabha-

NEVER talk to any official of any sort.
Even to give a witness statement, have an attorney write it for you.
Anything you say can and WILL be used against you.

g146541
NEVER talk to any official of any sort.
Even to give a witness statement, have an attorney write it for you.
Anything you say can and WILL be used against you.

This is almost a tad funny...

Back before auto insurance was mandatory and you were forced by law to do business with the privately owned insurance industry... if you witnessed an automobile accident, you may have been required to stick around, go to court and make testimony as to what really happened.

Since mandatory insurance, what actually happened is no longer that important. Witnesses sometimes have their personal info taken but only rarely get called to court.

In the end... it's mostly no-fault in basic concept. You can have an accident that is NOT your fault but... your rates go up... how sweet.

reply to post by Eryiedes


WEll I have to chime in here as my son got into an accident last week and over the phone I told him not to make a statement. It just kind of blurted out, but the Cops wrote him a ticket and said that no statement is admission of guilt.

We will deal with this in court.

Edit to add that later when reading the back of my insurance statement, I saw that it warns against saying too much at an accident. Ah shoot I will look it up and quote it at some other time.

I'd personally say this is good ..and bad.. advice. Just my opinion, but I think it depends entirely on circumstances.

If it's a petty thing like a traffic ticket or an "ID check" as I always knew it from a couple decades ago, then why escalate into your booking into the jail by instant claiming the 5th amendment? They'd suspect (and with fair reason) you have something to hide if you go defensive to an extreme on first 'Hello!'.

On the other hand, if you're a suspect in anything above an infraction ..or anything that COULD, EVER require an attorney? I'd give nothing but name, age, social and home address. The 5th may not impress a cop and it may cause a lot of grief on the scene of something. However, it WILL mean everything in a courtroom later, when it's just two attorneys arguing from different tables.

...above everything though, among the lessons I had hammered into me as a kid growing up around cops? Don't ever ..ever...EVER..try to outsmart the police with chat or word games. They do that 8 hours a shift, several days a week and they do it professionally. They're FAR better at it than any of us could hope to be, without even considering the fact it *IS* an unemotional game to them. Just a puzzle to get solved ...where for the suspect, it's life and death at worst and their future years as free or not, often, at best.

reply to post by Eryiedes


What I took from the article was not so much to not say anything to the police, but to not say anything AFTER, you tell the you would like to exercise your "Fifth amendment rights", big difference between refusing to speak versus informing them of your right to use the 5th!

antar
reply to post by Eryiedes

 

WEll I have to chime in here as my son got into an accident last week and over the phone I told him not to make a statement. It just kind of blurted out, but the Cops wrote him a ticket and said that no statement is admission of guilt.

Greetings,

You simply forgot to do one thing:

Basically, if you’re ever in any trouble with police… and want to keep your mouth shut, you will need to announce that you’re invoking your Fifth Amendment right instead of, you know, just keeping your mouth shut. “Petitioner’s Fifth Amendment claim fails because he did not expressly invoke the privilege against self-incrimination in response to the officer’s question.”

(Exerpt from the article.)

Keep this in mind or you will be trying to kick water uphill.
Best of luck to you in your case.

-Amitabha-

reply to post by redoubt


Actually no, you have NEVER been required to deal with any organization.
Remember, "you have the right to remain silent".
A few months back my wife and I were involved in a minor fender bender in a parking lot where an old gal hit us, no injuries other than chipped paint and a minor bump.
The insurance company called me a few times to get my "side" of the story and I told them, "your customer hit me, now fix my car".
They all went on to tell me how being a legal process yada yada yada Etc...
I told them, the fact is I was hit, and you are the insurer, pay up!
Long story short, my car is fixed and we had a rental for a week, no out of pocket expense to us.
You have the RIGHT to remain silent.

g146541
You have the RIGHT to remain silent.

Hola,

You certainly DO have the right to remain silent but only AFTER they have read you Miranda.
Until that happens...it's open season unless you invoke the 5th.

-Amitbha-

reply to post by g146541

Long story short, my car is fixed and we had a rental for a week, no out of pocket expense to us.
You have the RIGHT to remain silent.

I hope that right remains firm.

Thanks for the reply... gives me reason to hope

reply to post by Eryiedes


I have faith in my brothers and sisters.

Hey,

This next video does NOT help to make my case but it's just TOO funny not to post:

Dave Chapelle: I Plead the Fif

www.youtube.com...



-Amitbha-

reply to post by Eryiedes


Some don't even read your rights anymore. I experienced this firsthand.

There is a really nice youtube video of a law class lecture with a defense attorney and an officer both saying and explaining all the reasons why these prospective lawyers should advise their clients never ever ever talk to police when questioned. The rule is you remain silent and use your lawyer as a mouth piece...logically he is the only one on your side in that system because you paid him to be.

reply to post by Eryiedes


God, you live in a horrible world, but it ain't mine even though we live in similar places. But I see it different so it is different.
Yesterday I talked to two Police Officers because I was carrying a bow in a park. Nice chat, all ok, see ya! I wasn't tazered, I wasn't arrested, I wasn't told anything, just checked out what I was using it for. (bowfishing)
I guess your attitude toward them would have got you arrested.
Therein lies your problem.

MadMax9
reply to post by Eryiedes

 

God, you live in a horrible world, but it ain't mine even though we live in similar places. But I see it different so it is different.
Yesterday I talked to two Police Officers because I was carrying a bow in a park. Nice chat, all ok, see ya! I wasn't tazered, I wasn't arrested, I wasn't told anything, just checked out what I was using it for. (bowfishing)
I guess your attitude toward them would have got you arrested.
Therein lies your problem.

The fastest way to lose your rights is not to use them.

You have the right to not be hassled in your day to day activities if you are not breaking the law.

I wont even go as far as saying they shouldn't check people with weapons (as in some states open carry is legal) They absolutely should at least see whats up with them, and when its clear its a citizen exercising his rights, not violating a law, and move on.

As with your example thats fine, but understand you only see a small cross section of the police population and whats true for your area may not be true elsewhere.

Even when a cop stops you and ask, "how fast where you going?" They are looking for an admission of guilt, even that should be met with a polite "I don't know sir". Point being if in any conversation with a police you admit a crime on accident they will arrest you, so why go down that route to start?