Under Seal: Document Expert Identifies Obama Birth Certificate Forger; Says Media Executives Invol

reply to post by BrianG


We can be 100% sure about many things we did not witness ourselves. What are you talking about. Nonsense. Are your parents married? Were you at the ceremony?
I am 100% sure that George Washington was the first president. I was not there.

reply to post by Rosinitiate


Yes all those things are real. Well except for the NWO. BUT the rest is real Oklahoma bombing real, Assassination of JFK real, terrorists brought down the towers that's real. What's your point. Barack Obama is not real ?

reply to post by xuenchen


It doesn't stipulate. If your parent is a US citizen no mater whether natural or if they became one you are one too. Period. No different set of but what if rules.

reply to post by buster2010


wow...a debunk from "Dr. Conspiracy"....and...on a blog.

That is rich.

reply to post by xuenchen


You seem hung up on that word natural. What is the issue as you perceive it.?

reply to post by xuenchen


Yeah his grandfather is his father His mother and grandfather are white. If his grandfather is really his father where did the black blood come in? SHEESH you guys will entertain just about anything in your hate for Obama.

reply to post by MysterX


Lucky for us it's already been settled. He is a natural born citizen of the United States of America. Voted in twice by the American people. Voted in. Twice Voted in. Twice.... do you guys get it yet????? No? Ok head, wall, bang away .

reply to post by AutumnWitch657


LOL you honestly believe that he was "voted" in?
Oh boy!

chiefsmom
LOL you honestly believe that he was "voted" in?

Oh dear, you honestly think the Birth Certificates, certified by the State of Hawaii, are forgeries... some people will believe any birther lie!

chiefsmom
reply to post by AutumnWitch657

 

LOL you honestly believe that he was "voted" in?
Oh boy!

It's very simple. There was something called an 'election' in which he got more votes than John McCain. Then, 4 years later there was another election, in which he got more votes than the Romney Unit. It's called democracy. It's not a perfect system but it's best one that we've been able to come up with so far.

reply to post by hellobruce


Sorry, where did I state that? I actually took the time to read the link in the original OP. Did you? I commented on that information.
Sorry, try again.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Yes, because it cannot and wasn't hacked. That hasn't been proven over and over and over.........

chiefsmom
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Yes, because it cannot and wasn't hacked. That hasn't been proven over and over and over.........

No. It hasn't. There was an election. He won. Twice. I suggest that you get over it.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Thanks. And I suggest you "Deny Ignorance" And do some investigating on the subject. You may be surprised. OH, and this isn't just an Obama issue, ( the hacking) it went on before him as well. As you will learn, if you investigate.

reply to post by PRS395


Please provide the proof that he was in eligible to run for President. The fact that his mother was a US citizen alone makes him a natural born citizen.

chiefsmom
Sorry, where did I state that? I actually took the time to read the link in the original OP. Did you?

Yes, and it is the same much debunked nonsense that has been used in some of the 200+ court cases that birthers have lost - Also I pointed out that Vogt is NOT a expert - remember how the court rejected his evidence as he was not a expert? Also he starts making errors in part 1 of his rant!

chiefsmom
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Thanks. And I suggest you "Deny Ignorance" And do some investigating on the subject. You may be surprised.

I have. All I find - all I ever find - is a load of drivel from conspiracy-mad, foam-flecked nutters. Republican nutters at that. There has never been any credible claim of election stealing. Other than in 2000 when Dubya stole the election from Gore.

Looking back at this post, what comes to mind is an old tactic I was once told. The easiest way to take out a force larger than your own is to divide that force; seems to work.

reply to post by bjax9er


Here's the deal about Islam, when his mother "married" his "father", under Muslim law, she became a citizen of whatever Muslim country he was from. Then she became a citizen of Indonesia by marriage to Lelo Soetoro. That means, under Muslim law, he is Kenyan.

His "father" was born as a British subject, because Kenya was a British territory. He never gave up his citizenship in Kenya, so according to Kenyan law, Barack Jr. is Kenyan, and a British subject and a Muslim. His mother, by virtue of giving up her rights as an American citizen, means then that Barack Jr. is not an American citizen.

And since Barack Jr. grew up in Indonesia, another Muslim country, he was a citizen of Indonesia. He was never formally adopted by his grandparents and he never legally had his name changed back to Obama, because he still was called Soetoro until he went back to Hawaii. Just because he lived with his grandparents in Hawaii does not mean he would become a citizen, unless they formally adopted him.

But the Constitution states that one must be natural-born citizens, as some of the presidents were born to foreign parents, such as Andrew Jackson, whose mother was from Scotland. But his mother did not bounce around Europe after he was born. That's the whole issue, until a child is 18 years-old, that child is a citizen of the country of their parents. That's why so many Mexican illegals are here, to have babies born on American soil so they become American. But in Vietnam, those babies born of American soldiers were not American under American law or Vietnamese law either.

Did she have him in Hawaii? That's up for debate still, but for it to be true,then there needs to be a Kenyan birth certificate, but if there is, then that makes it a British document.

This is the sticky part, since natural born means you were either born on American soil or your mother was born here, then he is natural born in that regard because we know she was born here. But on the other hand, if her American citizenship rights were given up through marriage to Obama Sr., then she became a citizen of Kenya. So no matter how you want to perceive that, she was the citizen of another country at his birth.

Andrew Jackson's mother became a citizen of the United States, and gave away her rights as a British subject. but then again, she was born prior to the Revolution, but she did not go back to Scotland and neither did she pledge loyalty to the British. She was no longer a British subject after the Revolution, so Andrew therefore as a first generation American born on American soil, was American at birth.

But immigration laws changed so much before Obama Jr. was born.

1902

1903 Immigration law was consolidated. Polygamists and political radicals were added to the exclusion list.

Obama Sr. was a polygamist, he was married to another woman at the time he "married" Stanley Dunham, so legally they could not be married. As polygamy was illegal, it nullified his marriage to her only in the United States, but not Kenya. As they were legally recognized at married in Kenya, it then made her a citizen of Kenya.

In 1965, the law changed to this

1965 The national origins quota system was abolished. But still maintained was the principle of numerical restriction by establishing 170,000 Hemispheric and 20,000 per country ceilings and a seven-category preference system (favoring close relatives of U.S. citizens and permanent resident aliens, those with needed occupational skills, and refugees) for the Eastern Hemisphere and a separate 120,000 ceiling for the Western Hemisphere.

In 1986 it changed to this

1986 The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) was a comprehensive reform effort. It (1) legalized aliens who had resided in the United States in an unlawful status since January 1, 1982, (2) established sanctions prohibiting employers from hiring, recruiting, ar referring for a fee aliens known to be unauthorized to work in the United States, (3) created a new classification of temporary agricultural worker and provided for the legalization of certain such workers; and (4) established a visa waiver pilot program allowing the admission of certain nonimmigrants without visas. Separate legislation stipulated that the status of immigrants whose status was based on a marriage be conditional for two years, and that they must apply for permanent status within 90 days after their second year anniversary.

So, was he natural born? That's the definition we need to have made clear. It did limit Asians from claiming citizenship. But clearly, his birth does present legal challenges. Was he born in Hawaii or Seattle? Or was he born in Kenya? He was not a citizen at birth, that's the point, he was the citizen of what country his mother was, and according to Kenyan law, she was a Kenyan citizen because she was "married" according to Muslim custom and law. But she was not legally married in the eyes of United States law, therefore his father's nationality does not count in that regard. So we have to challenge Kenyan law.

Had he been formally adopted by his grandparents anyway?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'll see if I can find the exact wording from cases. It's true that no case explicitly states that people born on foreign soil to at least one US citizen are natural born citizens. However, they do equate birthright citizenship with natural born citizenship. Furthermore, in Perkins v. Elg it was stated that a person born on US soil to two foreign parents and then spends most of their life in their parents' home country is eligible to run for President. Since this is the case I don't see why a person born on foreign soil to a US citizen (maybe 2, I'm not sure if Cruz's father was naturalized) would not be considered a natural born citizen.

However, considering we now have questions regarding natural born citizenship being brought up every election it's clear that the term needs to be defined more clearly.