Under Seal: Document Expert Identifies Obama Birth Certificate Forger; Says Media Executives Invol

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well, as it is written in an official court document, then it must be officially recognized as legal. Barack was a dependent of both.

The FOIA does not guarantee us the right to Indonesian documents, only the United States ones. And since this event happened in Indonesia, we won't know until Indonesia releases it. But since it was an American court, in Hawaii, that declared 1 Child over 18 as being theirs, then the American court recognized he belonged also to Lolo Soetoro. His name is not mentioned as he was over the age of majority. But Maya's name is listed, because she was a minor.

IMPLICATION. An inference of something not directly declared, but arising from what is admitted or expressed. from what is admitted or expressed.

The definition of implication in law is in regard to an inference something not declared (on paper) but that is admitted or expressed. As she then admitted and expressed on the court document 1 child over 18 as theirs, then it didn't have to be directly declared on paper.

But is is declared on paper, and since neither of them had another child over 18 living in the home or dependent upon them, then it can only be inferred that Barack Jr. was the child in question.
Usually when people are declaring children of other marriages, that child who is living with another former spouse is not included as the child of the couple in question. As it designates on the document, he was listed as the dependent of theirs.

It is therefore accepted that Lolo was the father of the child, because the marking states so, then he could have become father only through adoption. There is simply nothing stated that Barack Jr. had been a foster child to him. The document states very clearly then, Barack Jr. was considered Lolo's child.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Let say hypothetically that Soetoro did adopt the children. So what? As has been pointed out to you numerous times now that wouldn't nullify Obama's natural born citizenship.

reply to post by WarminIndy


You keep stating something, somewhere was declared on paper....but I checked every post you have in this thread (the little member menu off your Mini allows that) and I don't see any links to source documents...anywhere..that support Obama as being anything but a United States Citizen? I'd love to see this original document as it was filed anywhere, that would show without question ...Obama had Indonesian Citizenship at any point in time ..or that he had Dual Citizenship. Implication is opinion. Opinion is nothing, on this case.

Now, lets look at something, although this will take hours to effectively get through. It's not the first time I've shared these links on ATS, but research seems a bit lacking these days, so here are the links supplied.

By the way, some of these links are even sourced back to Anti-Obama folks. I'm not sharing them for the commentary added, but because they do contain the FOIA docs from 2010 and some released in 2011.


FOIA Release: Records Relating to Barry Soetoro/Stanley Ann Dunham/Barack Obama Sr./Lolo Soetoro (182 Pages - June / 2011)

Barack Hussein Obama Sr. Immigration File (55 pages - April / 2011)

S tanley Ann Dunham Obama Soetoro-Passport Application (14 Pages - July / 2010)

U.S. Citizenship of Persons Born in theUnited States to Alien Parents (Congressional Research Service Report - May / 2006)

Lolo Soetoro U.S. Records (97 Pages - July / 2010)

"Birther" Timeline (48 pages - This shows events of importance to questions regarding Obama's legitimacy to run and hold Office of the President. It also includes some material and links to the challenges against John McCain for the same basis...as he WAS challenged for legal basis to qualify.)

Now, within the above hundreds of pages of original material, most from the 70's for original sourcing, lay support for everything I've said.

@ Thread

For folks who DO intend to go through all that, I'll just add that many documents do repeat where the files cover similar material. Some appear in only one set, and nowhere else. So, unfortunately, it is necessary to go through every page of each set if someone wants to see all of it. It took me a loooong time to get through all that ..but as mentioned, it left 100% no question in my mind that Obama IS a U.S. Citizen, legally and properly, and always has been.

I'd welcome anyone else to dig right in and see what they come up with from the same source material

---

Finally, just to make this complete in ONE post....

"Birther" Scorecard

- This last document is 74 pages long and gives details as well as links to source documents (In most cases) to all the legal cases ....over 200 of them... to be filed and lost or dismissed in U.S. Courts between 2010 and February of 2013. 7 were still pending and hadn't been lost yet when that was last updated.

Polite Reminder

Hi People,

While we do appreciate such discussions can become passionate - they should never become poisonous.

Please by all means debate the topic - but not eachother.


Thank you for your understanding.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Here are the images so you can look at them yourself...






I don't make things up to support the birther theories, I never said I was and never presented myself as such. But in looking at all the documents available out there, and only the American ones can be under the FOIA and only American ones to view, because Indonesia isn't under FOIA, you are missing out on those. Until those are available, we can't just latch onto one side.

The question was raised that he was not an Indonesian citizen. I presented the evidence of how he could legally be under Indonesian law. Then I provided the information about his mother. But since images are everything, then here is the image of the divorce document released under FOIA.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Thanks for the reply. I do appreciate the copies.. I can't read them..which is why I asked for the links, not images of them. No biggy though... I shared the source material which U.S. law is basing it's decisions on, and has since he was a child.

We aren't going to change each others minds though. All I can do is share the best information available as close to top level source as humanly possible. Which is sitting above. Anything else? Well.... We each choose what we accept as legitimate and what we don't. It would have been nice to see enough time taken to reply...to at least have skimmed what I posted..but that's okay too.

You have a good evening. I'm moving on.

AngryCymraeg
Which reminds me, has Orly Taitz come up with more drivel recently?

As expected, she lost another appeal

www.courts.ca.gov...

Taitz’s challenge to the award of $4,000 in discovery sanctions in favor of third party Occidental College likewise fails. Taitz contends the trial court erroneously determined that the records she sought from Occidental College were private. To begin with, she has not provided us a copy of the motion, the subpoena, or the reporter’s transcript. Accordingly, we have no way of meaningfully reviewing the order and would affirm on that basis alone. Further, according to the notice of ruling prepared by Occidental College’s counsel, the court’s order was based on numerous grounds, not simply privacy, none of which Taitz addresses in her brief. For example, the court found, (1) the ex parte motion to compel was prepared, filed, and served before Taitz filed and served the underlying subpoena itself; (2) “[t]he ‘ex parte’ motion refers to a request for documents pursuant to . . . Code of Civil Procedure Section 2031.310 which applies . . . only to parties and Occidental College is not a party in this action;” (3) the subpoena gave Occidental College less than 24 hours to respond; (4) the subpoena was served by e-mail; and (5) “the relief sought cannot be obtained via ex parte application . . . .” Taitz addressed none of these rationales and thus waived the issue on appeal.

Em2013
reply to post by AutumnWitch657

 

Have you even bothered reading my post? You seem like you're just spewing whatever comes to mind without deep thought. At least think about what I said and realize what I am saying.

The way I see it is I've given you guys six years to bring a convincing argument to the table. One that brings Obama down as the treasonous mobster fraud that he must obviously be.

The way I see it is that that has not happened. Of course that's another conspiracy. That he's like the Teflon Don of capitol hill protected on every front , supported by the real powers,except for when it comes to getting a bill he proposes passed that is.

This one is interesting

Rafael Cruz, speaking to the North Texas Tea Party on behalf of his son, who was then running for Senate, called President Barack Obama an "outright Marxist" who "seeks to destroy all concept of God," and he urged the crowd to send Obama "back to Kenya."

This is Cruz's father, makes me also wonder what he has been told, and what the government knows that it refuses to reveal because it would be so damaging to the country or maybe because it would be so damaging to the lawmakers, (puke) careers, if in fact they have known.


youtu.be...



Or it could be just the ramblings of a crazy old guy.
I appreciate all the responses,

reply to post by AutumnWitch657


If you would have read what I had written you would have realized by now that I didn't ever mentioned that I believe that he was born outside the US or born inside the US. I simply stated it's important to keep an open mind and be cautious about anyone involved in politics which if you strongly believe in the opposite, I fear that you're a dis-informant agent or something of the sort or just simply lazy/dumb/all of the above? No one in their right mind would be so quick to support any politician in this day in age. Even Cruz should be approached cautiously.

Obama isn't the only guilty politician of treason and horrendous humanitarian crimes. There's a long list of presidents and prime ministers, and well... Those are just the ones at the topmost. I believe in a good government, I believe in a well-regulated militia, and I believe in people having the right to make their own decisions and of course I believe in social Darwinism. Unfortunately social Darwinism is taking everyone out through democracy by bad voting habits and we see it every 4/6 years.

I just worry that one day people will become so divided and so angry at everything including the horrendously corrupt politicians that all hell will break loose and then the good old America we once knew becomes a new-found territory for some other country. People are losing their minds over whether someone is born within the US or not as a president. The truth is, it doesn't matter. He hates the US and so does his wife. After all, once he became president she was proud for the first time about her country right? Be careful on whom you support, you might find yourself in regret one day.

MystikMushroom
We're STILL talking about this?

Yes, because the POTUS is really a Kenyan-born, communist Muslim who visits gay bath houses.

The sad thing is, I know people that actually believe the above statement. The POTUS isn't going anywhere, and the poor horse has had enough. Maybe his COLB is fake, but the only people that care are the ones upset that their "team" didn't win.

Anyone that's been on ATS long enough should know by now that the Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin.

you REALLY want us to believe he was born in kenya??????????????????

have you ever looked at what it would take to do this???????????????

pregnant women , they pick a hospital and dr where they will deliver their baby, covered by their insurance, early in the pregnancy.

you are telling me, at 8 months pregnant she threw this to the wind
you are telling me ,she traveled over 12,000 miles 1 way
you are telling me , she took a 3 day flight which involved at least 2 different airlines
you are telling me , that even though they were living on student loans, they could afford
plane ticket that cost almost $1000.00 a piece ( if you account for inflation, it would
the eqivalant of $13,000 for both of their tickets in 2005)
you are telling me that they went 300 miles east to mombasa, instead of 250 miles to the dads home town
you are telling me,, that instead of having her baby 35 miles away, they instead , go 550 miles to kenya to have the baby.
you are telling me, that instead of having her baby in a modern hospital, with her family near, and at the hospital and drs she would be familiar with, she traveled all this way and had her baby in some 3rd world hospital with no family nearby and unknown drs and staff.

here is a link with links to the airlines back then, etc, etc to back up the FACTS above www.calldrmatt.com...

how can you look at these FACTS and still think he was born in KENYA???????? it is mind boggling and makes you look ridiculous

research100
...pregnant women , they pick a hospital and dr where they will deliver their baby, covered by their insurance, early in the pregnancy.
...

If I may...
Where did you get this information?
Is it specific to this story?
If so - Is it from "a reliable source"?...or,
Is it from your understanding of "how things work"?
Thanks in advance.

WarminIndy
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Here are the images so you can look at them yourself...

-- snip --

Thanks!
I've been trying to check in on this thread as much as possible. Thanks for the docs. I've downloaded them so that I can get a better look at them.

reply to post by WanDash


REALLY????? out of everything I posted, you picked that 1 little part?????? come on, those are FACTS on the milage, FACTS how expensive travel was, FACTS how long the travel was. they backed up their info with links of maps of plane travel back then and links of what travel was like from the airline archives etc...

are you suggesting she didn't have any prenatal care???? you picked out that 1 little thing because you can't discredit the rest of the FACTS in my post.

you are so sure...show me my FACTS are wrong!!!

research100
reply to post by WanDash

 

REALLY????? out of everything I posted, you picked that 1 little part?????? come on, those are FACTS on the milage, FACTS how expensive travel was, FACTS how long the travel was. they backed up their info with links of maps of plane travel back then and links of what travel was like from the airline archives etc...

are you suggesting she didn't have any prenatal care???? you picked out that 1 little thing because you can't discredit the rest of the FACTS in my post.

you are so sure...show me my FACTS are wrong!!!

edit on 1-11-2013 by research100 because: (no reason given)

So - you didn't count that important in considering the rest of what you layed-out?
Who said I was trying to (or even had a desire to) discredit anything?
I need to know what kind of weight to give to the various "components" of your argument...
If these questions are too much of an intrusion ------ please disregard.
Thanks.

research100
how can you look at these FACTS and still think he was born in KENYA???????? it is mind boggling and makes you look ridiculous

That's Obama Derangement Syndrome for you, they do not consider any fact that destroys the funny story they have made up about Obama.

They also do not think that after losing every single court case, over 200 of them, that suddenly next time they present the same "evidence" in a court it will be believed and the birfers will finally win, and get the black man removed from Office.

They do not think that all the "evidence" Vogt has has been shown to be just lies.

They just do not think.

reply to post by hellobruce


Even if he is a natural born citizen he has made so many "mistakes" that he should have been impeached years ago. The ptb and obama's robotic followers will cling to the fake racist allegations to keep that man in power for as long as possible. He is almost as disgraceful as bush and cheney were before him.

As expected, it appears the court is just not interested in Vogt's nonsense!

the court ORDERS Mr. Vogt to show cause within 20 days of the date of this order why his complaint should not be dismissed for lack of subject matter jurisdiction. If Mr. Vogt fails to timely respond to the court’s order to show cause or fails to establish a valid basis for this court’s exercise of subject matter jurisdiction within his response, the court will dismiss his complaint.

www.archive.org...

Oh dear, Vogt's silly attempt failed, as expected!

www.obamaconspiracy.org...

In his response, Mr. Vogt fails to provide a valid basis for this court’s exercise of subject matter jurisdiction over his action. … Mr. Vogt fails to address any of the case authority cited by the court in its order to show cause indicating that (1) there is no private right of action under either 18 U.S.C. § 4 or 18 U.S.C. § 2382, (2) private parties generally lack standing to institute a federal criminal prosecution, and (3) private citizens or voters, such as Mr. Vogt, lack standing to challenge President Obama’s qualifications to hold office through the use of misprision of felony or misprision of treason statutes, or otherwise, because they have suffered no particularized injury . (See generally OSC.) The court, therefore, concludes, consistent with the authorities cited in its prior order to show cause, that it lacks subject matter jurisdiction over Mr. Vogt’s action and DISMISSES this action in its entirety without prejudice

What will the birthers try next? They have the perfect track record, losing every single court case they have attempted, over 200 of them so far.

reply to post by hellobruce


Oh they'll try again. And again. The truly delusional always do.