'Physical enjoyment' in the afterlife

babloyi
I don't see anything inherently immoral or "low" with physical activities (in heaven or elsewhere), so I have no need to justify them

If think that you want to spend eternity boinking and copulating with numerous women ... go for it. I would hope that heaven would be a much more spiritual situation. Since people don't have babies in heaven, then there would be no need for sex and people can spend their time in better and higher activities. But if you prefer the organic and mundane ... go ahead and keep your eyes on that as your prize ... knock yourself out ...

reply to post by FlyersFan

FlyersFan
... and at the same time his new and improved physical body could walk through walls and through locked doors ... and travel great distances at quick speeds ...etc. It obviously wasn't the exact same body he died in. It CHANGED.

And he could walk on water before.
* Babloyi shrugs

Dunno if him not doing something before (and it being observed) meant he COULDN'T.
Still, always seems quite pointless to me to try and explain miracles. That is their entire point. They are miracles!

FlyersFan
If think that you want to spend eternity boinking and copulating with numerous women ... go for it. I would hope that heaven would be a much more spiritual situation. Since people don't have babies in heaven, then there would be no need for sex and people can spend their time in better and higher activities. But if you prefer the organic and mundane ... go ahead and keep your eyes on that as your prize ... knock yourself out ...

I didn't mention sex, but sure, why not? The idea that the ONLY purpose of sex is to produce babies seems to be a very catholic thing. I don't consider it to be so. And again, your use of terms like "mundane" and "organic" and "higher" belie an idea (that there is something beneath us, or "low" or "immoral" about physical activities), that I don't share, and I can't see any logical reason to adhere to. There is nothing WRONG or "low" or "base" with enjoying a good meal, or a nap in the sun, or expressing your love physically, as long as, of course, those actions don't adversely affect you or others.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree with you on the thinking that heaven is a very spiritual place, however, there is something in your post that I would like to make a comment on.

Sex, the act of making love, is for more than making babies. Its a higher expression of love, its becoming "one" with another, it promotes bonding (not to be confused with bondage) its also a very spiritual act, it can raise an energy level on a more spiritual level.

You find, in actuality, that the more spiritual and in tune with the divine a person is, the more also they enjoy the act of making love... (menopause notwithstanding)

FlyersFan

babloyi
I don't see anything inherently immoral or "low" with physical activities (in heaven or elsewhere), so I have no need to justify them

If think that you want to spend eternity boinking and copulating with numerous women ... go for it. I would hope that heaven would be a much more spiritual situation. Since people don't have babies in heaven, then there would be no need for sex and people can spend their time in better and higher activities. But if you prefer the organic and mundane ... go ahead and keep your eyes on that as your prize ... knock yourself out ...

Now that was a funny one.

Sex is dependent on one thing, lust. As lust can be very powerful, if not used properly can lead to some very bad things. Yes, even married people lust after their spouses. But there's nothing wrong with that.

So if an unmarried person goes to heaven with lust in their hearts, then it can't be used properly and if Jesus said you don't get married in heaven, but as the angels are, then lust can't be part of the human any more.

It gets down to that one thing...lust. And if someone is lustful, then imagine what would happen in heaven? If someone were to go forever with lust in their hearts and never able to fulfill it, then they would be pretty miserable.

Along with lust is some other very powerful things, jealousy arises along with hurt feelings. It's better to go to heaven without lust, that way you won't be miserable. I am middle-aged now and have seen my whole life women who were widows and they talk about being with their husbands again, it makes me sad that they live with a memory of some man that may have been very good to them. But that's what I always hear, how they can't wait to go to heaven to be with him again. So they say things like "he's an angel now, playing the harp with the other angels". There's nothing in the Bible that says that, but maybe it brings them comfort.

I don't think these old feelings we had on earth will be in us in heaven. Everything there is new, including the human heart. So lust would not be a part of it. So no sex would either, because sex is a temporary pleasure on this earth, some people are never satisfied by it anyway.

Besides, who would even think about sex if you are in the presence of Almighty God? Sex and lust are part of us here because we aren't in the presence of God yet.

That's kind of like having sex in your parents home while they are in the next room..ewww.

reply to post by WarminIndy


The weirdest thing happened to me after my husband and I decided to marry. This was three months before our legal marriage. He and I one day were on the phone, and I was having a bit of a crisis so he and I started praying together. In the middle of this prayer I had a vision.

I saw two halves of a circle, kind of like a ying and yang type thing because there was a bit of a hook in each half. I saw these two shapes come together to form a perfect circle, and I felt, rather than anything else, that one half represented him, and one half represented me. Once they came together to form a circle I heard the words..."And the two meet" (as in come together) Then I heard the words "What God has joined together let no man put asunder."

Clear as a bell I saw and heard these things...

Later that week, a man asked me to marry him. He was the owner of a local gas station chain, and right after he requested to speak with my son concerning marriage to me, I heard those words again, very loudly. "What God has joined together let no man put asunder"

There is something VERY different about my marriage with Nenothtu. I consider that day that I heard those words and had that vision to be the date of our marriage. The legal marriage after that was just earthly paperwork.

Nenothtu is not my first husband. I was divorced before him. and NEVER once did I feel as "one" with anyone in my life... there is something different, and something entirely sacred about my marriage to Nenothtu.

And yes, in some way, I will be with him in the afterlife. We are now joined as one, no longer are we two. There is no beginning and no end of he and I. We complete each other totally.

reply to post by Aphorism

How could anyone experience anything without their body?

What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.
- Morpheus

OpinionatedB
reply to post by FlyersFan

OpinionatedB
I agree with you on the thinking that heaven is a very spiritual place, however, there is something in your post that I would like to make a comment on. Sex, the act of making love, is for more than making babies. Its a higher expression of love, its becoming "one" with another, it promotes bonding (not to be confused with bondage) its also a very spiritual act, it can raise an energy level on a more spiritual level. You find, in actuality, that the more spiritual and in tune with the divine a person is, the more also they enjoy the act of making love... (menopause notwithstanding)

The Orgasm is your direct Iphone line connection point to your creator no one speaks of. Is there a study out there Im unaware of? When I am in an OOBE or lucid dreaming, an orgasm occurs when Im in 'DANGER' (falling off of a cliff, or realising all of zoo animals may be dead; as I neglected to feed them for 3 weeks); its all about scrambling to FIX a situation; (these just two of 100s of scenarios). I dont return to my body/or wake up, the scene continues. Someone said earlier in this thread "Isnt the point to become less dense and rejoin the creator". Yes, but heres the thing, why come here to earth, incarntate just to spend eons (lifetimes of reincarnation) to find the way back to the womb, where all love acceptance exists. I was asked once by a person (that expirenced recently the phenomenom of blanket overwhelming acceptance Love); why would I leave that environment? My answer, it wasnt enough to live in complete happiness, and you were given a chance to experience Chaos, swim with the sharks and find your way back. Thats a noble quest (to even volunteer) to expect that this could be accomplished. Id say 99 to 1 (and so many lifetimes to accomplish it). The problem is you are born with amnesia (even though you have been schooled and vetted You Think You Will Remember) your chances of discovering your purpose/quest as a human is next to impossible. All of you here are on this same mission, you just dont know it.

Aphorism
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Words are definitely things I am concerned about. That is all we are talking about here. There is no actual supernatural force plaguing my thoughts.

What about my concern of certain words causes you to worry? And why does it hold your attention?

Because I find it fascinating that one who maintains no interest in a topic yet displays and interest.

reply to post by FlyersFan
Let's see if I can do this train of thought justice...

I believe sex is the physical manifestation of some spiritual phenomenon, an analogue to it. There are also two kinds of sex, aren't there? There's "making love," and there's everything else. The "everything else" probably has no spiritual analogue; only "making love" does. To us, love doesn't come easy. It sometimes takes years of knowing someone before mutual love blossoms. But after the Resurrection, love will be all we know. You will love everyone far more than you've ever loved anyone. In that environment, "spiritual sex" will probably happen non-stop and "feel" a whole lot better. We can only hope. I can't imagine what sex in Hell will be like, but I'm sure it won't be enjoyable to anyone but the demons.

Sex is (or should be) about making someone else feel good, not for selfish reasons. Sharing is caring. There will be no selfishness in Heaven, so the sex should always be good. We might even find that simply being in Heaven feels like a 24/7 orgasm; consider all the NDE'ers who report feeling a joy and peace so profound as to be indescribable. Whatever pleasures our heavenly bodies end up being capable of experiencing, we'll be making each other feel them all the time... and we'll forget all about sex on Earth.

For more information about our heavenly bodies, read 1 Corinthians 15 starting at verse 35. The More You Know...

OpinionatedB
Sex, the act of making love, is for more than making babies. Its a higher expression of love, its becoming "one" with another, it promotes bonding (not to be confused with bondage) its also a very spiritual act, it can raise an energy level on a more spiritual level.

For organic animals ... yes. For those in the spirit or for those with 'glorified bodies' (Changed like Jesus body was changed) ... then copulation would seem to be very mundane compared to the spiritual. In the afterlife, the organic restrictions are stripped away. So why go backwards and boink and focus on compulating when you could commune directly with God and each other? It doesn't make sense to me. And considering that sex stays within marriage in 'God's laws' and that Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven .... I"m thinking that means we discard sex as outdated and useless and move on to higher spiritual unions ...

But I guess we'll find out when we get there.

reply to post by Thought Provoker

That's another thing .... the near death experiences all speak of being totally immersed in the love of God and of having very intimate spiritual contact with God and those around you. So how could physical organic sexual union possibly be of interest when all that higher spiritual union is going on?? I'd think it would be a step backwards and that it wouldn't even be something that a person would bother thinking about.

FlyersFan

OpinionatedB
Sex, the act of making love, is for more than making babies. Its a higher expression of love, its becoming "one" with another, it promotes bonding (not to be confused with bondage) its also a very spiritual act, it can raise an energy level on a more spiritual level.

For organic animals ... yes. For those in the spirit or for those with 'glorified bodies' (Changed like Jesus body was changed) ... then copulation would seem to be very mundane compared to the spiritual. In the afterlife, the organic restrictions are stripped away. So why go backwards and boink and focus on compulating when you could commune directly with God and each other? It doesn't make sense to me. And considering that sex stays within marriage in 'God's laws' and that Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven .... I"m thinking that means we discard sex as outdated and useless and move on to higher spiritual unions ...

But I guess we'll find out when we get there.

The concept of sex being a spiritual phenomenon is ancient. That's why there are those carvings on that mountain
in India and why all ancient religions believed in the sexual union of the gods. But when women were taken out of certain aspects of some religions, sex became a different thing, it was no longer spiritual. The Kama Sutra is a book about relating sex on a spiritual level.

I am a Christian, but read about Nikkal of Ugarit who was called "The Lady of the Orchard" and her husband was Yahrick, a moon god. Nikkal does find her way into the Song of Solomon as her full name does relate to blossom in the Hebrew. Yarhick came every night as the moon to overshadow Nikkal and the dew was water the fruit trees. Take that as you want, but it is a very pretty story. And the imagery of Nikkal and Yahrick are found in the Song of Solomon, that we can all agree is probably the most erotic story in the Bible.

The Bible implies that a married couple are a spiritual union. They literally don't become one flesh, so it is metaphorical. I think there was a sharp divide in the ancient world between romantic love and physical acts. The Jews have a marriage contract called the Ketubah, in which the husband agrees to pleasure his wife as much as he is able to, it is his responsibility to do so. She has the right to divorce him if he won't do it. I know that we all hear the strange divorce laws from the Orthodox and it is that limited view that we think there is all to Judaism. But a built in law that requires the woman to be satisfied, can't be all that bad.

Ketubah

The ketubah isessentially a statement of the husband's obligations. The obligations of the wife to her husband are not recorded in the ketubah.

The ketubah is not recent, it was in Biblical times, so when people say that women had no rights in the Bible, they simply don't know Judaism. Women were not bought and sold like you think a slave or animal would be, she had a lot of rights. People think bride price means a man just pays for his wife.

Native Americans at one time paid bride prices also, but theirs was usually in the form of horses or other tangible objects. It was not just a Biblical concept.

The content of the ketubah is in essence a one-way contract that formalizes the various requirements by Halakha (Jewish law) of a Jewish husband vis à vis his wife. The Jewish husband takes upon himself in the ketubah the obligation that he will provide to his wife three major things: clothing, food and conjugal relations,

Because the heaven described comes from the Biblical perspective, then perhaps it is best to read what they had to say about what goes on there?

One of the saddest things I had heard was that on 9/11, some of those men who were Jewish called their wives to give her a get, a religious divorce. This allowed her to go on freely after he was dead. Even though it is legally binding, it is also symbolic. When those men did that, they were saying "Honey, I love you but I am not going to live, you have my blessing for the rest of your life in what you choose to do or if you choose to marry again". They were telling their wives that even though they were gone, the womens' lives was not over and he loved her enough for her to let him go.

reply to post by nenothtu

Because I find it fascinating that one who maintains no interest in a topic yet displays and interest.

I never said I maintain no interest in the topic, only that I do not need to run to the concept when I require answers to unanswerable questions. I have no use for them in that regard.

What interests me is people that do require an answer, and in doing so, say supernatural forces are at work, when no such forces have ever been seen or known to be at work anywhere or at anytime. What interests me is dishonesty and vanity, and the clinging to ancient ideas for comforts sake. What interests me is truth.

Your fascination is flattering, however I think your point serves little purpose in this discussion.

reply to post by usertwelve

What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.
- Morpheus

Sure Morpheus. I'll bite.

And where do those electrical signals come from? What sends those signals to the brain? Through what do those electrical signals travel?

reply to post by Aphorism

And where do those electrical signals come from? What sends those signals to the brain? Through what do those electrical signals travel?

I take it you haven't seen the movie. I won't spoil it for you.

reply to post by usertwelve

I take it you haven't seen the movie. I won't spoil it for you.

From machines? I take it you've seen it too much.

reply to post by Aphorism

Most certainly...

reply to post by Aphorism


I'm sorry. I couldn't decipher most of your response, even with a dictionary and a thesaurus.

One part I did grasp was this:

Your fascination is flattering, however I think your point serves little purpose in this discussion.

I believe you may have missed my point entirely. You are in a religious thread, dealing with religious concepts and seeking religious answers, yet appear to have no religious belief. My purpose in this discussion is to discover why you have a fascination with religion, yet seem to have no religion at all. I have to wonder why you are here in the first place, if not to seek religious answers yourself.

"Truth" and what can be measured (and poked at) are two different things. just ask Heisenberg. Just because something cannot be measured does not mean it does not exist. Just because something is unknown or undiscovered, likewise, does not mean it does not exist. if it did, then there are a great many things known today that would not be, since at one time or another they were entirely unknown, not even suspected to be.

In other words, the phrase "no such forces have ever been seen or known to be at work anywhere or at anytime" can be said of a great many things that are now known, but were previously unknown. By the logic you present, they should not be (because they were, at one time or another not known to be at work, nor had they been seen), yet are.

Just when science thinks it knows and has discovered everything, something new comes along...

... which is why we can drive cars faster than 35 miles an hour without having all the air sucked out of our lungs and suffocating. Once upon a time, science said that was impossible.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I think where we may be running cross-purpose here is in how we are defining "sex". One school has it as a purely physical, mechanical, animalistic act, and so some times it is. Another line of thought adds to it an emotional dimension, and yet another tacks on a spiritual dimension.

I think, personally, that if we limit it to the strictly mechanical, we lose something of being human, even here on Earth.

While it's sometimes a good thing to have one of those breathless, mindless barn-burning and Earth-shattering grunting matches, swinging from the chandelier and whatnot, if that's all there is it gets BORING, as you say. I'd rather watch TV - every season at least has new shows, to alleviate the boredom.

I haven't watched TV in a very long time...

I have to reiterate, Jesus did not say "no marriage in heaven", he said "they neither marry nor are given in marriage" - present and future tense. The passage does not speak to past tense, what already IS. Likewise, he never said that we become angels, he said "they will become like unto the angels". That is open for discussion.

Interestingly, the bible mentions angels having sex in Genesis. "the sons of God saw the daughters of men..." and they evidently took it from there, according to Genesis, giving birth to "the mighty men of old".

Genesis 6:2 -

2 The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took themselves wives of all which they chose. 3 And God said: My spirit shall not remain in man for ever, because he is flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. 4 Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:2-4 (Douay-Rheims Bible, Challoner Revision)

reply to post by nenothtu

The passage is referring to the "sons of God". Can you point out where the sons of God are angels?