Does anyone know what has happened in NM?

U2U, sir

Sammamishman
reply to post by Tholidor

 

I was able to find the original TFR on the FAA site but it has been archived, so I'm assuming it was lifted not too long after it was issued?
webcache.googleusercontent.com...:tfr.faa.gov...
It states that the Air force search and rescue was the point of contact. Does the Air force usually get involved for a lost hiker search and rescue?

Just getting back to this now and re-read the thread to make sure I understand what we're all talking about and it's actually pretty confusing.

There are at least 2 separate NOTAM's in the OP & thread: 3/9977 and 3/0069.

Has it been determined that they are unrelated? I know 9977 has been lifted/rescinded but it's the one mentioned in the Blog and we do have the cached copy of the txt. So where did 0069 come from?

Zaph - of the 2, which one (or both) is of interest to you re: the info you're seeking? They seem to be pretty far apart geographically...

Also, there seems to be zero NOTAM's active in NM right now unless I missed something.

The FAA/NOTAM stuff is a little new to me so I'm probably more confused than you guys, but it's an interesting data-point and source for future reference. When I speak to some "folks" later tonight or tomorrow I'm probably not even going to mention it other than in passing, and stick with my original avenue of inquiry - "So, what's with the military "accident" in NM that no one is talking about?"

As you can see, I like to ease into things...

Let's all keep each other posted to the degree that we can.

reply to post by Riffrafter


There aren't any site specific ones. They are for airports in the region where the accident happened. I'm trying to discretely nudge in the direction I'm thinking.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Riffrafter

 

There aren't any site specific ones. They are for airports in the region where the accident happened. I'm trying to discretely nudge in the direction I'm thinking.

*NUDGE* Okay, more clues

reply to post by Zaphod58


That’s why I was hoping a local could take a drive out there and do a little snooping to see what gets stirred up.
I suppose after the area is opened up, someone could do a little artifact hunting for anything that was missed by the authorities.

Zaph, if it was what you think it is, is it an air breather?

reply to post by Sammamishman


Yes, it's an air breather.

reply to post by defcon5


If it was an X-37 they are fairly well documented when they launch from Florida or Vandenberg and land back at Vandenberg or at Edwards so eventually we'll know if the last one that launched never comes back. We will have to wait some time though as they can stay up for a very long time.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Thanks for that. At least that rules out the X37.

Sammamishman
reply to post by defcon5

 

If it was an X-37 they are fairly well documented when they launch from Florida or Vandenberg and land back at Vandenberg or at Edwards so eventually we'll know if the last one that launched never comes back. We will have to wait some time though as they can stay up for a very long time.

Nope, still up there - I thought the same thing at first


www.n2yo.com...

reply to post by Sammamishman


It's 100% air breathing. I can say that with utter certainty now. The video of the odd reentry, had nothing to do with it.

reply to post by Zaphod58

Okay, so here's what we know so far...

Lol, nothing.

Dag nab it!

Oh I bet its something, just, well, super!!!

See below for less confusing post

reply to post by weavty1


Is it just me . . . or . . . is it the case that

there's enough . . . nuanced speculations and assertions on the thread at this point

that some of y'all with more insight, if not 'sources'

COULD reasonably safely

summarize what's MOST LIKELY the case at this point????

Particularly in quasi-specific generalized terms . . .

e.g.

. . . exotic but conventional plane type craft or drone
. . . exotic surveillance craft or platform or satellite--evidently that's not the case as it's air-breathing . . . though maybe an exotic surveillance craft or drone might fit still . . .

. . . UFO technology craft is evidently out also as it's air breathing.

. . . evidently a 'weapon' is out as it's air-breathing . . . unless, I guess, it were an advanced missile, cruise missile or some such.

= = =

. . . seems like it ought to be reasonably safe to assert whether the better guesstimates are that it was a drone . . . or not a drone . . . a cruise missile or not one . . . a space plane or not one . . . .

Certainly any communications that have occurred via electricity have already been monitored . . . so any keeping things from the PTB has already failed.

reply to post by Stealthbomber


Even if that were regular text . . . the wall of text would be plenty to send prospective readers running away.

Particularly those of us with old eyes.

Given that it's very specialized text with lots of cryptic anacronyms . . . the MUCH MORE NEEDS broken up with lots of white space between a few lines of text.

I'm not about to read all that wall of text.

reply to post by BO XIAN


ZAB ALBUQUERQUE (ARTCC),NM. !GPS 10/160 ZAB NAV GPS IS UNRELIABLE AND MAY BE UNAVAILABLE WITHIN A RADIUS OF 479NM CENTERED AT 323259N/1060123W OR THE LOCATION ALSO KNOWN AS THE EL PASO VOR /ELP/ 017 RADIAL AT 46NM AT FL400 AND ABOVE; DECREASING IN AREA WITH A DECREASE IN ALTITUDE TO A RADIUS OF 424NM AT FL250; A RADIUS 337NM AT 10000FT MSL; A RADIUS OF 354NM AT 4000FT AGL; AND A RADIUS OF 264NM AT 50FT AGL. DAILY 1830-2230 1310301830-1310312230

Basically says the NAV GPS in unreliable in that area, within a radius of 337NM AT 10,000 feet, and 354 at 40,000 feet.

!FDC 3/9023 ZAB PART 1 OF 2 AZ..AIRSPACE LIBBY AAF, AZ..TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS. OCTOBER 27-28, 2013 LOCAL. PURSUANT TO 49 USC 40103(B), THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION (FAA) CLASSIFIES THE AIRSPACE DEFINED IN THIS NOTAM AS 'NATIONAL DEFENSE AIRSPACE'. ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY OR WILLFULLY VIOLATES THE RULES CONCERNING OPERATIONS IN THIS AIRSPACE MAY BE SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CRIMINAL PENALTIES UNDER 49 USC 46307. PILOTS WHO DO NOT ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES MAY BE INTERCEPTED, DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT/SECURITY PERSONNEL. PURSUANT TO TITLE 14 CFR SECTION 99.7, SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS, ALL AIRCRAFT FLIGHT OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN AN AREA BOUNDED BY THE FOLLOWING COORDINATES: 313416N/1101130W TO 313414N/1103014W THEN CLOCKWISE ON A 8 NM ARC CENTERED ON 313415N/1102052W TO THE POINT OF BEGINNING FROM AND INCLUDING 9000 FT MSL UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING 18000 FT MSL EFFECTIVE 1310280135 UTC (1835 LOCAL 10/27/13) UNTIL 1310280700 UTC (0000 LOCAL 10/28/13). END PART 1 OF 2 1310280135-1310280700EST !FDC 3/9023 ZAB PART 2 OF 2 AZ..AIRSPACE LIBBY AAF, AZ..TEMPORARY FLIGHT EXCEPT AS SPECIFIED BELOW AND/OR UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY ATC: 1. ALL AIRCRAFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE TFR MUST BE ON A DISCRETE CODE ASSIGNED BY AN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL (ATC) FACILITY. 2. AIRCRAFT MUST BE SQUAWKING THE DISCRETE CODE AT ALL TIMES WHILE IN THE TFR. 3. ALL AIRCRAFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE TFR MUST REMAIN IN TWO-WAY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS WITH ATC. 4. ALBUQUERQUE ARTCC, TELEPHONE 505-856-4580, IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. END PART 2 OF 2 1310280135-1310280700EST

This one says that they have set up a NATIONAL DEFENSE AREA at the coordinates listed.


There a few others for Lights Out flying and one for a laser being used.

Here's a link with plenty of white lines in between for you




pilotweb.nas.faa.gov...

reply to post by Stealthbomber


I did see those but couldn't ascertain which ones were related to the accident and which were of un-related testing near White Sands (the laser NOTAM was for Apache point ob.?).

Stealthbomber
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

!FDC 3/9023 ZAB PART 1 OF 2 AZ..AIRSPACE LIBBY AAF, AZ..TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS. OCTOBER 27-28, 2013 LOCAL. PURSUANT TO 49 USC 40103(B), THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION (FAA) CLASSIFIES THE AIRSPACE DEFINED IN THIS NOTAM AS 'NATIONAL DEFENSE AIRSPACE'. ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY OR WILLFULLY VIOLATES THE RULES CONCERNING OPERATIONS IN THIS AIRSPACE MAY BE SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CRIMINAL PENALTIES UNDER 49 USC 46307. PILOTS WHO DO NOT ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES MAY BE INTERCEPTED, DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT/SECURITY PERSONNEL. PURSUANT TO TITLE 14 CFR SECTION 99.7, SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS, ALL AIRCRAFT FLIGHT OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN AN AREA BOUNDED BY THE FOLLOWING COORDINATES: 313416N/1101130W TO 313414N/1103014W THEN CLOCKWISE ON A 8 NM ARC CENTERED ON 313415N/1102052W TO THE POINT OF BEGINNING FROM AND INCLUDING 9000 FT MSL UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING 18000 FT MSL EFFECTIVE 1310280135 UTC (1835 LOCAL 10/27/13) UNTIL 1310280700 UTC (0000 LOCAL 10/28/13). END PART 1 OF 2 1310280135-1310280700EST !FDC 3/9023 ZAB PART 2 OF 2 AZ..AIRSPACE LIBBY AAF, AZ..TEMPORARY FLIGHT EXCEPT AS SPECIFIED BELOW AND/OR UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY ATC: 1. ALL AIRCRAFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE TFR MUST BE ON A DISCRETE CODE ASSIGNED BY AN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL (ATC) FACILITY. 2. AIRCRAFT MUST BE SQUAWKING THE DISCRETE CODE AT ALL TIMES WHILE IN THE TFR. 3. ALL AIRCRAFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE TFR MUST REMAIN IN TWO-WAY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS WITH ATC. 4. ALBUQUERQUE ARTCC, TELEPHONE 505-856-4580, IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. END PART 2 OF 2 1310280135-1310280700EST

This one says that they have set up a NATIONAL DEFENSE AREA at the coordinates listed.

Got this from my source yesterday about that NOTAM:

"They're performing intercepts of unmanned target drones, with F-35's and F-16's, in the area of Libby AAF. Marines out of Yuma in the new F-35s have been practicing drone intercepts and they have to keep the airspace clear because the shoot downs are happening with ECM.

The engagement zone is massive because this is one of the launch bases, code name is Black Tower (Ft. Huachucha's other airfield, which doesn't have an official name that I know of, but is known locally as "Black Tower", is where the Army trains all their Predator, Eagle, Shadow and Hunter UAV pilots).

Esentially what they're testing is how they can disable UAVs with nothing but radio jamming, kinda like Iran did. The local hospitals' med-vac pilots were complaining because it's messing up their approach vector.

We get these all the time, though. Libby is the 5th largest runway in the US and one of the least used - Luke, Davis Mothan, Yuma and White Sands will use the field all the time for touch and goes, emergency landings and training flights.

So far, I've seen like three F-35's and a few F-16's today diving from the West, in mock engagement turns.

They're probably just practicing hostile airfield landings, judging by the fact they're coming in super low and fast.

They're keeping commercial air traffic far and clear away from Libby, because of their use of ECM this weekend. Just imagine the media nightmare that'd be, if we took down an airliner by accident. D'oh!"


He lives in that neck of the woods and has a few friends that work in the direct vicinity.


Pretty awesome if you ask me! Sounds badass! Lol

"Got this from my source yesterday about that NOTAM:"



So this NOTAM is un-related to the accident since this area is in SE Arizona? The distance between the mystery TFR zone and this NOTAM is about 150 miles.

Sammamishman

"Got this from my source yesterday about that NOTAM:"



So this NOTAM is un-related to the accident since this area is in SE Arizona? The distance between the mystery TFR zone and this NOTAM is about 150 miles.

Haven't been able to confirm that. There's a possibility, but I have no idea to be honest. I've heard several different fairly plausible things in relation to the NM NOTAM, so it's still in the air for me (no pun intended).