How many wives does Jesus allow?

godlover25
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Hello,

"Greatest I am"

I pray that you are not in real life as you are on this online web forum,

If you are, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy,

Do you realize all your harsh criticisms and judgments are against the One who keeps your soul in your flesh?

Do you realize the One whom you constantly put down and talk negatively about is the very One who breathes into your flesh 24/7, who opens your eyes after you sleep, who keeps your body animated and alive on this earth, for the time being?

Do you realize you will give account of every word ever spoken, even ever thought considered, unto the One whom you so despise?

God, have mercy on this man, forgive him his ignorance, please in Jesus Name open this mans eyes and save this poor man,

Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy,

in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

God bless and forgive you and your family,

Amen

How is this even remotely addressing the OP question?

Å99

DISRAELI

Greatest I am
So you think ancient women were denied equality for their own good. LOL.
Pfft. You forget that many women held the wealth.

You need to understand the economic realities of the ancient world.
We are not talking about the Rome of, say, the Augustine period.
We are talking about the Israel of several centuries earlier.
In those days, there were no feminists demanding to be rendered homeless and income-less for the sake of "equality".
In that period, the practice of divorce was the exercise of masculine power, just as the practice of polygamy has always been.
Had any feminists been existing at the time, they would have demanded legal restraints on both practices.

P.S. The clue is in the fact that Moses is allowing men to divorce their wives, not the other way round.
In the law of Moses, "Permission to divorce" is about giving men what they want, not about giving women what they want.
That is why it is called a patriarchal society.

edit on 23-10-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

Continue to think in black and white even as I showed a gray area.

Regards
DL

Broom
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

How many wives does Jesus allow?

"In reply he said: 'Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.” - Matthew 19:4-6.

Seems pretty clear to me that it is one man and one woman. Jesus of course was using the first marriage as an example, the one that God performed, when uniting Adam with Eve. It was no doubt this same toleration for man's hardheadedness that he allowed polygamy. But to be sure it was not allowed in the Christian congregation: "The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife." (1 Timothy 3:2).

Jesus basically had a no divorce policy. Let no man put asunder.

This is not true. Notice what Jesus himself said to see if what you said holds up: "I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the grounds of sexual immorality,and marries another commits adultery.” (Matthew 19:9).

So sexual immorality is clearly a valid reason for a divorce that is acceptable to God. He surely did not have a "no divorce policy."

edit on 23-10-2013 by Broom because: (no reason given)

You say that right after telling us that God said let no man put asunder.

You also cherry pick Jesus talking of the law Jews answered to without cherry picking where he confirmed that God's law was still and always let no man put asunder.

Typical Christian dishonest debate tactics. No wonder religions are losing the battle to secularism and atheism. As a Gnostic Christian your tactics also hurt me.

God says he never changes his mind yet you try to sell us on a God who will bend to the whims of men. How droll.

Regards
DL

WarminIndy
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Actually, it wasn't that the OT allowed it, it was just that it was cultural then. Nowhere does it say God was pleased or endorsed multiple marriages.

Jesus quotes Adam and Eve, He doesn't refer to any other marriages in the OT. He says "a man shall leave his parents and cleave unto his wife, and they become one flesh". So I would think Jesus felt one man and one woman was enough. As a wife was given to Adam as a helpmeet, then why would Adam need more than that? Does man need 50 wives to help?

David was punished for taking Bathsheba. His friend the prophet Nathan posed to him a question like this..."what would you do if a man stole another man's sheep and killed him". David said "I would have him killed", to which Nathan replies "It's you who did it"....so we see that God was not pleased with David. After that, David's son raped his half-sister, her other full brother decided to get revenge for it, both boys ended up dying, and David's next child only lived a short time. So, three sons lost over one bad action.

Then his grandsons lost the kingdom because of infighting.

So you see, if he had just stuck with Michal, his first wife, then all of this probably would have never happened.

LOL.

You make up your own story of Kind David and forget to mention the best part, that being that God was so angry with him that God tortured his baby for 6 days before finally killing it. How in hell does that add any credibility to your ramblings?

Punishing the guilty instead of an innocent baby would be good justice. What do you call the justice that God put out?

Moral or not?

Regards
DL

jmdewey60
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I see Jesus as explaining why the Jewish law was as it was, not accepting hard hearts as an excuse for God to change his law and mind.

On your last thread you seemed to be saying that religion was no better than so many fairy tales and could be replaced with a new set to revise religion.
Now you seem to be a true believer that God wrote the Old Testament and that Jesus was a real historical person.

When Jesus said "Moses", I'm pretty sure that he was only referring to the Jewish Law that could have been just made up without there ever actually being a real person, Moses.

You know that Jews do not literally believe in their myths. They see a new Jesus and Moses etc in each new generation of Jews. I also do not believe in a literal bible.

I do have to quote it and read it that way if I am going to show literalists how it does not work at all if read that way.

That is one of the reasons why I advocate for the election of a new Jesus, --- as he prophesied in scriptures. That way a fresh start can be had by all who are in the Abrahamic cults.

Regards
DL

mysterioustranger
"Does Jesus ALLOW"? I dont think he ever was in a position to "allow" anyone to do anything.

If there is a list of things Jesus "allows or doesnt allow"...I like to see it in print.

Perhaps you meant...."from His lifetime of studying Scripture...basically Hebrew scripture...to what was Jesus in support of"?

The "does Jesus ALLOW"...is confusing. Explain please? Thank you.

Let me rephrase for you.

Would Jesus support the notions of one wife or many, if he were real and if what the scribes had put in his mouth via the scriptures, --- he had actually said, which we all know he did not as he was likely never real and definitely could not have been real as written up in the bible.

Regards
DL

godlover25
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Hello,

"Greatest I am"

I pray that you are not in real life as you are on this online web forum,

If you are, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy,

Do you realize all your harsh criticisms and judgments are against the One who keeps your soul in your flesh?

Do you realize the One whom you constantly put down and talk negatively about is the very One who breathes into your flesh 24/7, who opens your eyes after you sleep, who keeps your body animated and alive on this earth, for the time being?

Do you realize you will give account of every word ever spoken, even ever thought considered, unto the One whom you so despise?

God, have mercy on this man, forgive him his ignorance, please in Jesus Name open this mans eyes and save this poor man,

Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy,

in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

God bless and forgive you and your family,

Amen

You follow your God well. You would place blame and punishment on my family for what I do.
Seems you are as big a prick as your God.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) 16 “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

Let me rephrase for you.

Would Jesus support the notions of one wife or many, if he were real and if what the scribes had put in his mouth via the scriptures, --- he had actually said, which we all know he did not as he was likely never real and definitely could not have been real as written up in the bible.

Regards
DL

Ahhh...that's better...phew, for a moment there I thought we were going to 'voices in my head' world...

Speculatively speaking, I see the quandary as one of practicality...If its practicality does not contravene 'do unto others...', and all parties (in whatever configuration it appears) doesn't present any major problems, except for those that make it thier lives mission to dodge thier own lives and pontificate on others'...then, sure...One, many...

I'm still really disappointed, I was hoping for some direct (if not 2nd hand) commentary from any that have that 'personal' relationship.

Å99

If many people believed what they think Yahweh and or Yahoshua said as literal by theirs or someone else interpretation of what was written in scripture,then there would be a lot of very misguided folks who didn't think they were lead astray that are practicing a very convoluted religion.

Let's hope that never happens...

reply to post by Greatest I am


As someone who has lost children, don't you think you are being quite insensitive toward parents like that? And toward babies?

Nope, another non-experienced person trying to pass moral judgment about the will of God that you know less about than why mushrooms grow in the dark on manure.

First of all, perhaps it was more merciful to take the baby, did you ever think of that? What if it had grown up disabled or sickly and in pain throughout its childhood? Did you ever think of that?

Let me tell you about another story, one about a baby that became disabled, Mephibosheth, who grew up with two disabled feet and lived in Lodebar. Do you know why his feet were broken? Because his nanny had to escape with him as the evil Queen was killing all the babies. But she dropped him and his feet were damaged. His little feet were so damaged that he grew up in Lodebar. Do you know what Lodebar is? It's the place of poverty, it's the place of sickness and it's the place of disability. He was impoverished all his life, because an evil queen thought to kill all the babies.

What is more merciful, as Mephibosheth's nanny thought to save his life, he was damaged. And it wasn't God who tried to kill him, it was evil. But then one day, David thought about the promise he made to his friend Jonathan and sent his servants to go out and find any survivor of Jonathan, and they found Mephibosheth, and brought him to David, and Mephibosheth lived in the palace.

But you call God evil for taking the life of one child, and yet putting it in the heart of David to rescue another. Had the evil queen killed Mephibosheth, it probably would have been more merciful, but she was evil and evil knows no mercy. But you call God evil.

Millions of parents have lost their children to death, but you call God evil who may have desired mercy instead of sickness for a whole life. Mephibosheth is us, in our crippled human state, we still can find a place in the great King's house to sit at His table, but that great King, you call evil.

The number six represents man and incompleteness, death is for every human. We die because we are human. But you call God evil, even though He still wants you as broken as you are as a human, to come to His House. But you call Him evil because you are a human with broken vision that you can't fix, no matter how hard you try, you cannot change the human condition.

So you try to look inwardly, but inwardly you are still a human and looking inwardly with broken vision. You can't change the human condition. You can't change the fact that you will get sick and that you will die. No matter how much you want to believe you are connected to everything and you believe you go back to the universe, you cannot change the human condition. The human condition is all of humanity, you aren't fixing all of humanity, now are you?

it's easy to tell people that all they have to do is look inside, they can be fixed, but who are you telling it to? The parents of lost children? Those dying of hunger? Those being stoned? Who are you telling that they can fix themselves? That one dying of hunger needs to be fed, not to look inwardly. And those who are dying without hope, you tell them that if they look inwardly, then hope is inside them? They know they are already broken.

But you try to take away from them hope. And you call God evil. The human condition can't be fixed by a few metaphysical words. If you are a god, then fix the human condition so there is no more suffering. And you want to call God genocidal, but you are telling people that they are gods, in their broken condition and they die without hope, because of you. It is so easy to tell the well that they are gods, but you cannot help those on their deathbeds and those who have lost children. You cannot change the human condition.

If you were to talk to a suicidal person, would you tell them they are god? Would you tell them that their life can be fixed if they look inwardly? They got to the point of suicide by great mental struggle and without hope. Who told them there was no hope for their condition? God didn't tell them that.

Rex282
If many people believed what they think Yahweh and or Yahoshua said as literal by theirs or someone else interpretation of what was written in scripture,then there would be a lot of very misguided folks who didn't think they were lead astray that are practicing a very convoluted religion.

Let's hope that never happens...

edit on 23-10-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

You seriously owe me a new keyboard and monitor...I just laughed and coughed half a cup of coffee all over the place...

...and, it seems, no-one is prepared to answer the OP in its original or amended form...

So much for staying on-topic...

Å99

Another side to the coin is:

How many husbands does Jesus allow?

Jesus actually never addressed that issue at all that I can tell.

My father and hubby both have masters of divinity degrees and from all the bible I have seen and read, that issue is not addressed.

If not expressly forbidden, is it then ok?

This is an important issue today as there is a huge shortage of women in the world and the shortage is growing larger each day with sex selective abortion and female infanticide as commonplace as it is in the world today.

Soon in order for most men to actually have a long term female partner, ie wife, there will have to be polygamy, with one wife and multiple husbands.

Watch and wait, you'll see.

The only other way to deal with the problem is the promotion of homosexuality, which we see most governments engaged in to avoid the problems that inevitably result from a huge male to female imbalance.

grandmakdw
Another side to the coin is:

How many husbands does Jesus allow?

Jesus actually never addressed that issue at all that I can tell.

My father and hubby both have masters of divinity degrees and from all the bible I have seen and read, that issue is not addressed.

If not expressly forbidden, is it then ok?

This is an important issue today as there is a huge shortage of women in the world and the shortage is growing larger each day with sex selective abortion and female infanticide as commonplace as it is in the world today.

Soon in order for most men to actually have a long term female partner, ie wife, there will have to be polygamy, with one wife and multiple husbands.

Watch and wait, you'll see.

The only other way to deal with the problem is the promotion of homosexuality, which we see most governments engaged in to avoid the problems that inevitably result from a huge male to female imbalance.

Flip it!...I like it...
Adaptation rules, surely...and this would be no different, from district to district (globally obviously), another 'interpretation' would need to be dreamed up from the pages of the little golden book - sanctioned by papa, and split in meaning by the myriad splinter groups with vested and unvested interest...and then discussed on ATS ad nauseum, or just until our noses bleed...

I still have a huge problem with 'tense' issues in these musings...

3rd person singular present is doing my head in...the accounts (if agenda-veracity is to be accepted - which is dubious at best) are spurious...amounting to the creation of the longest running game of Chinese Whispers...is someone supposed to win the kewpie doll?

Fortunately (because I had no idea comm circuits were 'down') OP author has modified the question...still, I was excited that I might at least be 3rd in line with everyone else in the game...sadly, Jesus isn't talking today to tell us his answer to the OP question...or maybe the answer is too uncomfortable to post?...who knows?

Å99

akushla99

Greatest I am

Let me rephrase for you.

Would Jesus support the notions of one wife or many, if he were real and if what the scribes had put in his mouth via the scriptures, --- he had actually said, which we all know he did not as he was likely never real and definitely could not have been real as written up in the bible.

Regards
DL

Ahhh...that's better...phew, for a moment there I thought we were going to 'voices in my head' world...

Speculatively speaking, I see the quandary as one of practicality...If its practicality does not contravene 'do unto others...', and all parties (in whatever configuration it appears) doesn't present any major problems, except for those that make it thier lives mission to dodge thier own lives and pontificate on others'...then, sure...One, many...

I'm still really disappointed, I was hoping for some direct (if not 2nd hand) commentary from any that have that 'personal' relationship.

Å99

edit on 23-10-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)

Few admit to such as then we could ask them what they are waiting for to save us all.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Regards
DL

Rex282
If many people believed what they think Yahweh and or Yahoshua said as literal by theirs or someone else interpretation of what was written in scripture,then there would be a lot of very misguided folks who didn't think they were lead astray that are practicing a very convoluted religion.

Let's hope that never happens...

edit on 23-10-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

Too late. Many minds have been ruined and are fully immersed into fantasy, miracles and magic.

This should be a crime yet is not.

Regards
DL

grandmakdw
Another side to the coin is:

How many husbands does Jesus allow?

Jesus actually never addressed that issue at all that I can tell.

My father and hubby both have masters of divinity degrees and from all the bible I have seen and read, that issue is not addressed.

If not expressly forbidden, is it then ok?

This is an important issue today as there is a huge shortage of women in the world and the shortage is growing larger each day with sex selective abortion and female infanticide as commonplace as it is in the world today.

Soon in order for most men to actually have a long term female partner, ie wife, there will have to be polygamy, with one wife and multiple husbands.

Watch and wait, you'll see.

The only other way to deal with the problem is the promotion of homosexuality, which we see most governments engaged in to avoid the problems that inevitably result from a huge male to female imbalance.

I see us as accepting gays as fully equal and no longer subject to discrimination and denigration.

I see no government promoting gayness. It is not a choice and I am surprised that one of your intelligence would think of it that way.

As to a woman with many husband's, I do not see this as a norm, because men are prone to invest in their own genetics and children more than women whose motherly instincts, --- I think, --- do not really care about the genetic factors. I qualify this by saying that we likely all have different degrees of this focus in all of us.

Regards
DL

WarminIndy
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

As someone who has lost children, don't you think you are being quite insensitive toward parents like that? And toward babies?

Nope, another non-experienced person trying to pass moral judgment about the will of God that you know less about than why mushrooms grow in the dark on manure.

First of all, perhaps it was more merciful to take the baby, did you ever think of that? What if it had grown up disabled or sickly and in pain throughout its childhood? Did you ever think of that?

Let me tell you about another story, one about a baby that became disabled, Mephibosheth, who grew up with two disabled feet and lived in Lodebar. Do you know why his feet were broken? Because his nanny had to escape with him as the evil Queen was killing all the babies. But she dropped him and his feet were damaged. His little feet were so damaged that he grew up in Lodebar. Do you know what Lodebar is? It's the place of poverty, it's the place of sickness and it's the place of disability. He was impoverished all his life, because an evil queen thought to kill all the babies.

What is more merciful, as Mephibosheth's nanny thought to save his life, he was damaged. And it wasn't God who tried to kill him, it was evil. But then one day, David thought about the promise he made to his friend Jonathan and sent his servants to go out and find any survivor of Jonathan, and they found Mephibosheth, and brought him to David, and Mephibosheth lived in the palace.

But you call God evil for taking the life of one child, and yet putting it in the heart of David to rescue another. Had the evil queen killed Mephibosheth, it probably would have been more merciful, but she was evil and evil knows no mercy. But you call God evil.

Millions of parents have lost their children to death, but you call God evil who may have desired mercy instead of sickness for a whole life. Mephibosheth is us, in our crippled human state, we still can find a place in the great King's house to sit at His table, but that great King, you call evil.

The number six represents man and incompleteness, death is for every human. We die because we are human. But you call God evil, even though He still wants you as broken as you are as a human, to come to His House. But you call Him evil because you are a human with broken vision that you can't fix, no matter how hard you try, you cannot change the human condition.

So you try to look inwardly, but inwardly you are still a human and looking inwardly with broken vision. You can't change the human condition. You can't change the fact that you will get sick and that you will die. No matter how much you want to believe you are connected to everything and you believe you go back to the universe, you cannot change the human condition. The human condition is all of humanity, you aren't fixing all of humanity, now are you?

it's easy to tell people that all they have to do is look inside, they can be fixed, but who are you telling it to? The parents of lost children? Those dying of hunger? Those being stoned? Who are you telling that they can fix themselves? That one dying of hunger needs to be fed, not to look inwardly. And those who are dying without hope, you tell them that if they look inwardly, then hope is inside them? They know they are already broken.

But you try to take away from them hope. And you call God evil. The human condition can't be fixed by a few metaphysical words. If you are a god, then fix the human condition so there is no more suffering. And you want to call God genocidal, but you are telling people that they are gods, in their broken condition and they die without hope, because of you. It is so easy to tell the well that they are gods, but you cannot help those on their deathbeds and those who have lost children. You cannot change the human condition.

If you were to talk to a suicidal person, would you tell them they are god? Would you tell them that their life can be fixed if they look inwardly? They got to the point of suicide by great mental struggle and without hope. Who told them there was no hope for their condition? God didn't tell them that.

I read your first few line only and did not think the rest worth my time.

You are worried about a few children and parents while your God goes about murdering and torturing babies and you think me insensitive.

Your thinking is quite immoral friend and your religion is to blame.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


"Love your neighbor as yourself" should cover it. Especially full-on suntanning neighbors, Amen!.

Greatest I am

grandmakdw
Another side to the coin is:

How many husbands does Jesus allow?

Jesus actually never addressed that issue at all that I can tell.

My father and hubby both have masters of divinity degrees and from all the bible I have seen and read, that issue is not addressed.

If not expressly forbidden, is it then ok?

This is an important issue today as there is a huge shortage of women in the world and the shortage is growing larger each day with sex selective abortion and female infanticide as commonplace as it is in the world today.

Soon in order for most men to actually have a long term female partner, ie wife, there will have to be polygamy, with one wife and multiple husbands.

Watch and wait, you'll see.

The only other way to deal with the problem is the promotion of homosexuality, which we see most governments engaged in to avoid the problems that inevitably result from a huge male to female imbalance.

I see us as accepting gays as fully equal and no longer subject to discrimination and denigration.

I see no government promoting gayness. It is not a choice and I am surprised that one of your intelligence would think of it that way.

As to a woman with many husband's, I do not see this as a norm, because men are prone to invest in their own genetics and children more than women whose motherly instincts, --- I think, --- do not really care about the genetic factors. I qualify this by saying that we likely all have different degrees of this focus in all of us.

Regards
DL

Governments only allow and encourage that which is in their own best interest. With nearly every TV show and nearly every movie having a gay character and the governmental norming of an activity by less than 6% of the population, something is going on.

The party line is exactly what you stated. I never said "gayness" was a choice, I taught human development, and it is quite clear that for about 3-4% of the population it is not a choice and we should not discriminate. However, there definitely is an environmental component to homosexuality hence we see around 6% engaging in it.

How do we know this about governments? Russia right now is having a large birth deficit. So to try and "cure" this problem, the government has outlawed homosexuality. Putin even openly said that homosexuality does not create children.

China to address the imbalance in the male to female ratio has officially outlawed abortion for the "allowed" child if it is for sex selection, thus forcing the poor who can not afford to circumvent this privately to have more girls.
Not for the sake of population but to prevent more than half of its population from not having a mate, thus the rise of prostitution (causing massive health problems), child brides, female abductions etc.

The point I was making was not that homosexuality was bad.

The true question for Christian's in future society which sex selects for males should be, will in the near future polygamy with one wife and several husbands be allowed? We currently can take care of the genetic issue. When trying to get pregnant the wife has unprotected sex only with the husband who wants a child., with the others she can use a diaphragm, foam, and the other husbands use condoms. There, simple genetic fix.

Aleister
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

"Love your neighbor as yourself" should cover it. Especially full-on suntanning neighbors, Amen!.

Thanks for the rhetorical garbage.

Regards
DL