Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

Agree2Disagree

To get to that last point of knowledge (which is truth)...You have to have first been planted, watered, and fertilized/pollinated....and then you will ripen

A2D

And in ripening, if you're an all-or-nothing type of person, you might even POP and explode, and as painful as that can be when it happens, looking back on it in hindsight you wouldn't trade the experience for the world in recognition that you're so much better off, in the new.. wineskin.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Indeed...
new wine requires new wineskin.....

A2D

Atwill is a troll, who's only goal is to sell books by trolling.

Look at you guys, 30 pages deep on this thread.

The Guys "proof" is all assumptions and self created projections, where there are none.

Jesus left of a system of Spiritual Enlightenment. If you follow what he taught to a "T", you will undergo the same ego death, Oneness, Grace, and Divine Love that he himself had and was under.

Speaking of which, many of these trolls sure get you guys going here on ATS

I'm going to write a book that says Muhammed was invented to control the Arabs under a unified ideology based on surrender and terrorism. That should sell a few million and get the treads going, no?

dominicus
Atwill is a troll, who's only goal is to sell books by trolling.

I'm going to write a book that says Muhammed was invented to control the Arabs under a unified ideology based on surrender and terrorism. That should sell a few million and get the treads going, no?

It sure would. I have a theory that since Mohammed was illiterate, that he was handed a perverted Gospel created by ancient Jesuits from Rome, yes, as a psy-op (now gone horribly wrong with lots of blowback and expansion) to create a "strategy of tension" against the Arabs which is still running as a "program" to this very day. Even the bowing to the sun might be considered an act of submission to Rome's heliocentric Christianity. Could it be so simple? Well I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that. The trick would be to do it in such a way that you don't offend or insult anyone including Mohammed, not an easy task. But if at the very least Islam can be persuaded that Medina trumps Mecca, then it becomes a peaceful religion but not "peaceful" only because it's taken over the whole world by domination and submission.

It would make for a best seller that's for sure.

Of course I realize that you were just trying to make a point about trolling books.

Agree2Disagree
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Indeed...
new wine requires new wineskin.....

A2D

How did Jesus know about "bursting wineskins" (as a psychspiritual metaphor for the spiritual growth and transformation process), that's what I'm left asking myself, because it's the kind of thing that's more relevant now, today, in the post-modern insanity than it's ever been, surely. That's not some sort of Roman invention by some a-hole PTB to try to weave a good narrative. No, it reveals an absolutely penetrating insight into the true nature of the human condition and spiritual growth which always seems to carry with it a "dark night of the soul", or in modern terminology, a mid-life crisis. It's the insight of a true master, not some Roman intellectual Jesus wannabe.

But did Jesus even "burst" I wonder, because it's also the insight of one with deep personal experience, sympathetic understanding and comprehension.

new wine requires new wineskin.....

Thanks. I only wish I knew what that really meant BEFORE I went and "burst" or what I call "popped".
It would have made things a lot easier, but then again not as humorous, looking back on it in hindsight.

And when the old one bursts all you're left with as an option is to get a new "wine skin" (psychological "shape") capable of taking in lots of "new wine" (spirit amid increasing self-knowledge) and thereafter swelling gracefully both wine and wineskin together and without ever bursting again, what joy is that?

That's what I like about reading Jesus (and I haven't read the Bible in a dogs age, but when I did and do it really makes a lasting impression on me) is his penetrating insight into the true nature of the human condition, once the onion of one of his sayings or parables starts to unravel, that is.

Read the bible as a kid and it was just totally boring nonsense, then I re-read it again as an adult, and popped.

Like Jesus said or advised, "measure the cost of discipleship" and be warned because it's an all or nothing proposition capable of causing any "normal" and reasonable person to become at the most fundamental level something quite extraordinary and unexpected. It's not for the wimpy or the faint of heart or even the "goodie two shoes" because it's not a morality play as it utterly transcends "the duality of should and should not". It's not a rule book, that's not the gist of Jesus' teachings. "Love, and do as you wilt." (St. Augustine)

It's funny you know how people would rather devote all their energies and thought processes to denying the very existence of Jesus without ever really considering even for a moment just what it was that he was really talking about and what he was really "up to".

It's fear-based I think, fear of change, fear of transformation, fear of popping. Most people these days don't really have what it takes I guess to go the whole distance or even be willing to commence the journey into real authenticity or the true life as one might have been intended to live it and likely experienced at some point probably in childhood the last time we were "carefree". We let the worries of the world get us down and of course Jesus talked about this, and the need to simply leave that world behind and to "leave the dead to bury their dead".

How far we'll go too, to evade the implications and the significance of Jesus and his Magnum Opus, what I call his "superdeterministic, cosmological Magnum Opus"..

Who wants to have a value assigned to themselves of INFINITE measure when our very VERY low self-estimation got us through just fine for so long? Who wants to be and become a truly sacred being and a child of God Almighty fit to live in God's house, forever (in one form or another) - it's SCARY!

Too good to be true.

But oh so funny and delightful..

I am not divorced from reality, like AfterInfinity claims we Christians are, I'm married to it for better or for worse and what saddens me I suppose is the degree to which I surely grieve the spirit, daily, so I'm not the greatest "wife" or "bride", but his love goes the distance, you see the WHOLE distance, and so we are made (I am made) to both cry AND laugh out loud until the tears are wiped away from our eyes or replaced with tears of absolute hilarity at out own (my own) utter folly and prior ignorance.

Jesus knew we wouldn't be able to do all this stuff we need to be doing, on our own, so he went ahead and blazed the trail for US, for the sake of "we" offering us a model of perfect leadership. Only problem is that most Christians think the journey ends at the cross when it's the resurrection life that is the reward which for us requires that we have the courage (once we get a new wineskkin) to be happy and joyful, carefree maybe even charming in our freedom and our personal power and free self expression where the real fun only just begins in the true joy of absolute self acceptance in absolute forgiveness even as we forgive in turn or at least we'd better forgive as we are forgiven or we're the very worst kind of hypocrite not to mention a persistent self-hater (and for all the wrong reasons) which is a grievous sin both against God as well as ourself as a beloved child of a loving God.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis

Best Regards, with Christian love, and humor and joy,

NAM aka Bob

SuperFrog
...
So far 'believers' tried to prove Jesus existence with historian all of whom were born after supposed crucifixion. No official records of historians at the time, and we know for fact that Romans were very good at keeping records, even of disturbing facts such as tyranny of Caligula, or his predecessor Tiberius who ruled Roman empire at the time . Just simply, there is no evidence...

You are very wrong, there are ancient writings which the Romans were not able to control because they never got their hands on them, and these also talk about the deeds of Jesus. Mind you many of those writings are in many ways different to what the bible as compiled by the Romans states, however they all state he did exist and he was/is the son of Elohim/God.

One such example is the Gospel of Thomas which remained hidden in a cave and was discovered near Nag Hammadi, Egypt, in December 1945, alongside other papyrus/texts/books.

These papyrus date from around the year 130 - 340, different sections and different papyrus have been dated to different times around those dates. We can't know if they were written from oral traditions, or from earlier copies, what we do know is that they escaped the reach of the Roman empire and in a sense, alongside other texts/books, these are some of the earlier Christian texts/books that have reached us and stood the passage of time and errors made because of translations of older translations, and intentional changes made by the Romans.

SuperFrog
Sooner people learn the 'truth', the better, and even here in USA there is more and more those who accept facts that there is no evidence in his existence....

What truth?... You can't say you have, or know the truth because it is up to each person to believe, or know and understand what the truth is.

What is it with people these days wanting others to stop believing in religion and proclaiming they are "the know it all, and anyone who believes differently is dumb"?

You should just accept people no matter what they believe in instead of trying to act up as "one of the few wise people on Earth"...

When you understand that, and accept that you DO NOT have truth on your side, and accept people for who they are and what they believe without trying to change them, it will help you become a better person in general.

Atwill & Fritz

V Sign

The Manifesto of Ra-Hoor-Khuit


Through Sorath, the Black Sun, out of Darkness comes Light.

Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

 

Well since you asked...I was specifically speaking about

The Dialogue of the Saviour
The Book of Thomas the Contender
The Apocryphon of James
The Gospel of Philip and
The Gospel of Thomas.

All of these texts have sayings of Jesus and incidents that took place within his life...

A2D

Ah, same old same old then. For a moment I thought you might have been claiming a genuine historical source for jesus.

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


Had a good laugh there...

I do worship Sun. (No, I do not pray to Sun - I just worship it )



One of his questions - why does everyone goes and pray on Sunday - day God has day off?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Having read the Bible from front to back, the sad commentary on the nature of Christianity is this:

Christians do not celebrate their faith they morn it. The message is correct, the tales and parables that are in the bible are there to teach, to inspire and ultimately to guide, not to be the end all be all, do this and you get spanked kind of message, well yeah there is that. But if you look at the times, and then look at what all was required, something has to be there that gives credence to the laws and rules that are present. But people take it at face value and fail to see the wisdom and beauty within the words.
The sad part of the state of religion is that today too many tend to pick and choose the parts and passages that suits them and their points of view. They do not look at the whole, rather using such as a weapon to justify their hatred, and feeling of superiority, while condemning people who fall outside of that point of view. Very few seek the harmony of life and use such to create disharmony and sow the seeds of discontent.

Most people mourn their faith, they do not celebrate it, they find that guilt burdens them and leads to regret and sadness. But that is life, and yet it is that regret and disappointment where the essence of hope lies. Believe it or not, there is comedy in religion. For all of its sour and down note, if you look at a lot of the great comedians, they turn and make light of such, bring joy and mirth to the world. Comedians like George Carlin and Groucho Marx, while they were devout in their faith, still found humor in what they believed.

The final thought is that there is wisdom there, but the question should be asked, what gives greater wisdom when it comes to religion, just reading or living the message? Many people read and do not understand, or even want to. And then there are those that read and live the message, finding greater comfort and solace in the understanding that comes from such.

wildtimes
reply to post by Fromabove

 

We are not all of the divine. And Satan is not a construct (except in your mind), he is an entity, a fallen angel. He is the one who speaks when you say there is no God.

Dear Fromabove,

We ARE all of the divine. And I have NEVER said "there is no God." I'm not an atheist.

I'm a Deist, and an Agnostic. Which means, I believe in a Supreme Divine, but I don't know for sure. It's the only really honest, intelligent pov, in my opinion.
But, if you've been convinced otherwise, well, that's your lot in life. I denounce "hell". I do NOT denounce God. And if Jesus lived he was a man, just like other men walking around. I, however, am a woman.

So, according to your thesis, I'm part of the downfall of mankind, and a demonic influence anyway. Right?

Let's take up that point of you being a woman. If you actually read the Genesis account. The man Adam was given a curse as was Satan (the serpent), but the woman was given the promise of restoration back to God. Salvation would never come from Adam but through Eve. Our Savior was born of a woman, and without her it would not have been possible to bring forth salvation to the world.

A lot of people know that Abraham was given blessings and promises of God, but people don't know that God also gave Sarah, Abraham's wife blessings and promises too.

Woman is not responsible for the downfall of mankind, Adam was. Eve was deceived but Adam "knew" what God had said. Eve only knew what Adam told her God had said because when God said it to Adam he was alone without Eve at the time. She was only guilty of being tempted. He was guilty of rejecting God for the promise of wisdom and power in defiance of God's expressed will. In fact if you read Genesis, when Eve ate the fruit nothing at all happened. Only when Adam ate the fruit were their eyes "opened". If fact, the commandment was given to Adam, not Eve. Eve only knew what God had said to Adam as told to her by Adam.

reply to post by BO XIAN

No. I can't say that

BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THE FACTS ARE OTHERWISE.

Our faith is built on a very solid, historically accurate, logical, documentable, durable foundation.

That's interesting. I've been told by more than one devout Christian that the more evidence there is to support your deity, the less effective he will be. By most accounts, fact is the bane of your god. Our knowledge is his Kryptonite.

KETHER
Atwill & Fritz

V Sign

Gee I wonder what Jesus will DO with these guys at the end. I wonder if they'll get the joke, and if they do if they'll get past the ohhhhhh nooooooo groaning stage.

Have mercy on them Lord for they did not know what they were doing, or maybe they did, but they were just soooo scared of you. Reveal the joke to them and through them, amen.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


By your avatar you look like you're in dire need of some living water.

If this is true then they may as well tell everyone that alien life does exist in the universe.

wlasikiewicz
If this is true then they may as well tell everyone that alien life does exist in the universe.

That makes absolutely no sense.

The premise and basis of Christianity is not that mankind is the only sentient lifeform/creature in the whole universe, nor would proof of life or alien life in any way negate the teaching and work of Christ in regards to the relativity of human being or the brotherhood of man in the context of the household of God.

Such assumptions.

Now of course at this point someone will pipe up and say something like "But how could Jesus be the only son of God if there are millions of other intelligent lifeforms in the universe?" but when you ask that question you betray your own ignorance as to the nature of the Spirit of God as well as that of the human being.

"And the last shall be first and the first, last."

Satan, in the lead up to the cross and the prospect of doing away with Jesus:

Yesssssssssssssss!


Satan, once Jesus was on the cross:

TheComte
My thoughts are:

If this is true, why did the Romans continue to persecute Christians for another 300 years until Constantine made it the state religion? Why actively engage in preventing the spread of the religion that you just invented, that you want to spread, by crucifying and throwing Christians to the lions?

If the nobility of Rome did indeed invent Jesus Christ, then I doubt they would have taken such extreme measures to dissuade people from joining. Because they would want it to spread. And they were smart.

A psychological tactic that can be employed is to bastardize a cause. Perhaps by insuring the persecution of the followers of this new religion, those that would go on to become martyrs would get others to join and believe in the religious fervor.

Although I do agree with you, 300years seems like overkill but in the grand scheme of things the religion went on to grow for 2000+years....sooo 300years seems like a drop in the bucket when compared to a few millenniums

You mean the book that says the sun moves around the still earth lied? It lied? The hell you say.

Already knew all religion is fictional. Religion should be outlawed.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Cool story bro. Needs more science and stuff.