On Choosing Your Sexuality

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I don't like the born that way argument, if you had asked me when I was a child what sexuality I was, except for the defensive "I'M NOT GAY!" kid attitude. I could never have given an honest answer because my sexuality was not truly known to me.

We're all gay, it's just to what extent are you gay.

But to say you've always known you're gay or strait is in my view wrong. I hope we can all agree that child molester's are not natural, but if sexuality is something you just are, and not of you're own choice, then should we show leniency for this perversion? It's who they are, they can't help it, they were born that way, right?

No sexuality is not a born thing it's experience, and choice as you become sexually mature.

For some the lines will always be muddled, myself for example, I've never engaged in homosexuality not for moral reasons "as I can find nothing immoral about it", but because I decided I prefer women.But yet I still can't look you in the eye, and say rather or not I'm sexually attracted to Russel Crowe! That man is my enigma!

He has such dreamy eyes, and can wear the hell out of a cowboy hat! We're all gay it's just to what extent, and the choice has and always will be you're own.

Well said. Sexuality is definitely not a choice, though perhaps the ability to choose to partake in it or not could be.

As someone posted earlier, I also had a male friend growing up who never hung out with the guys - he was always with us girls when we were outside at recess. For as far back as I can remember, and I've known him since kindergarten. Thanks to Facebook, I've found him again and sure enough he's out of the closet and open about being gay. I couldn't be less surprised about it, but happy for him.

As for myself, I didn't learn until mid high school that I was bisexual. Growing up in private schools, we didn't get as much of the slang and "street" knowledge that the public school kids did, so I didn't know it was a thing until much later. I remember thinking a girl in middle school was gorgeous and would always stare at her, but didn't realize until later that it was the exact same behavior on my part than if I were to have a crush on a boy. It got stronger throughout high school when hormones were turned up to 11, and by then there was no questioning it. I knew for sure, but was too shy and anxious to do anything about it until my early twenties.

I have to assume those who honestly believe that it's a choice have never experienced feelings like these themselves, or are so tied up with their own ideals that they won't let themselves think or even understand anything otherwise. You can try to explain it to them all you want but most of the time they'll never open themselves up to a different thought process, much less a different way of life.

terriblyvexed

We're all gay, it's just to what extent are you gay.

See, this is my argument: i am absolutely not gay in any way that I can discern. I am repulsed by naked males. THere is no arousal.

So I assert that individuals who believe that you choose to be gay are themselves repressing homosexual urges. They only know their own experience, and do not understand that there are those who do not repress urges at all, as they are just not there.

But to say you've always known you're gay or strait is in my view wrong. I hope we can all agree that child molester's are not natural, but if sexuality is something you just are, and not of you're own choice, then should we show leniency for this perversion? It's who they are, they can't help it, they were born that way, right?

You are rolling in the sh# and mud with that statement. It is beyond low to relate homosexuality with child molesting.

Beyond that, you would likely be unqualified to render a valid opinion on whether or not one can always know if they are gay or not. You lack that experience and thus lack that context.

But to call a homosexual person a pervert....you are letting your bigotry show.

No sexuality is not a born thing it's experience, and choice as you become sexually mature.

For some the lines will always be muddled, myself for example, I've never engaged in homosexuality not for moral reasons "as I can find nothing immoral about it", but because I decided I prefer women.But yet I still can't look you in the eye, and say rather or not I'm sexually attracted to Russel Crowe! That man is my enigma!

This is what I am talking about. You "prefer women", but can find the value in homosexual sex. I, on the other hand, can only see one single possibility: women. The idea of homosexual contact repulses me. It is "anti arousing".

You are repressing your homosexual urges, and judging others for not doing the same.

He has such dreamy eyes, and can wear the hell out of a cowboy hat! We're all gay it's just to what extent, and the choice has and always will be you're own.

Like I said....not everyone.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan




Tex, that was beautifully said, and you deserve applause for that one.


However, I'm afraid a certain segment of the population is always going to deny this, no matter the evidence or eloquent explanation.

It's funny that you mention this.... "quandry." Recently I got into this very same debate with a member here, who was claiming that homosexuality is a choice. I asked him if he chose to be straight. He responded in the affirmative. I presented him with your "quandry" and he did, indeed, respond aggressively. (Or at least, I interpreted it as "politely" aggressive. e.g. "You better get your facts straight.")

The fact is, however, we do not choose who we are attracted to. You can't choose to be homosexual, unless you find the same sex attractive. I would figure any truly 100% heterosexual person would understand this innately.

Furthermore, in a world where homosexuality is often looked down upon, maligned as unnatural, and even "sinful," where homosexuals are discriminated against, from being denied service, to being denied the same rights and freedoms, sometimes even being beaten why would anyone choose to be homosexual? I know some people delight in being different, but that's a whole other ballgame. There are many documented cases of homosexuals killing themselves because they couldn't take the abuse or hatred anymore, and they felt powerless to change. That is not the act of someone who chose a particular life path. It's the desperate final act of someone who literally saw no other way out of it.

reply to post by iwilliam


My wife, when I met her, had a gay man as a best friend. I knew him, and he was a really, really good guy. His parents disowned him when he "came out", and his dad kicked the crap out of him. That messed him up. For good.

He killed himself a few years ago. To the detriment of the entire world.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I am gay and to be honest I love who I am and who I have become today but at the same time IF being gay was a choice I would have chosen to be straight. I wouldn't have had to endure years and years and years of bullying from not only people at school but also from family.

IF it were a choice I think many gay people would chose to be straight. I can never understand why someone would want to chose to live a life of struggle and hate from others.

IN SAYING THAT!

Today I have a wonderful partner, house, full time job and there is nothing we really need to worry about. So, in the end my life has worked out but at what cost? I'm very grateful for where I am today and wouldn't change a thing, but if I had the choice at the beginning I think I would have chosen a different path.

terriblyvexed
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I don't like the born that way argument, if you had asked me when I was a child what sexuality I was, except for the defensive "I'M NOT GAY!" kid attitude. I could never have given an honest answer because my sexuality was not truly known to me.

We're all gay, it's just to what extent are you gay.

But to say you've always known you're gay or strait is in my view wrong. I hope we can all agree that child molester's are not natural, but if sexuality is something you just are, and not of you're own choice, then should we show leniency for this perversion? It's who they are, they can't help it, they were born that way, right?

No sexuality is not a born thing it's experience, and choice as you become sexually mature.

I think it's funny, because with this post you're exactly falling into the trap Texan pointed out in his OP. That of thinking that everyone must be like you. Capable of what you're capable of, developed the way you did, etc.

And I also got into this debate in a recent thread as well. Someone claimed that humans are not sexual prior to puberty. And perhaps that's how it is for some people. I assure you it's not like that for everyone. Lots of people, in fact, from many of the people I've spoken to. Personally, I had a disturbingly good understanding of human sexuality from a young age, and I was very attracted to girls / women.

And disturbing as it may sound to some, I actually had an active fantasy life, many years before puberty. Please don't imagine I was a late bloomer, either (regarding puberty.)

Possibly even more disturbing to some, is that even infants masturbate. Of course, it could be argued that with all the nerve endings sexual touch, as something enjoyable, is a separate entity from gender attraction.


All that being said, I will concede that certain aspects of a person's sexuality develop as they do. No, we're not born with all of it, I don't think. Someone with a pantyhose fetish, or someone into feet, red hair, glasses, etc. Certain preferences absolutely do develop I think. Just not ones as basic as gender attraction. Not in a majority of cases, I would venture.

bigfatfurrytexan

terriblyvexed

We're all gay, it's just to what extent are you gay.

See, this is my argument: i am absolutely not gay in any way that I can discern. I am repulsed by naked males. THere is no arousal.

So I assert that individuals who believe that you choose to be gay are themselves repressing homosexual urges. They only know their own experience, and do not understand that there are those who do not repress urges at all, as they are just not there.

But to say you've always known you're gay or strait is in my view wrong. I hope we can all agree that child molester's are not natural, but if sexuality is something you just are, and not of you're own choice, then should we show leniency for this perversion? It's who they are, they can't help it, they were born that way, right?

You are rolling in the sh# and mud with that statement. It is beyond low to relate homosexuality with child molesting.

Beyond that, you would likely be unqualified to render a valid opinion on whether or not one can always know if they are gay or not. You lack that experience and thus lack that context.

But to call a homosexual person a pervert....you are letting your bigotry show.

No sexuality is not a born thing it's experience, and choice as you become sexually mature.

For some the lines will always be muddled, myself for example, I've never engaged in homosexuality not for moral reasons "as I can find nothing immoral about it", but because I decided I prefer women.But yet I still can't look you in the eye, and say rather or not I'm sexually attracted to Russel Crowe! That man is my enigma!

This is what I am talking about. You "prefer women", but can find the value in homosexual sex. I, on the other hand, can only see one single possibility: women. The idea of homosexual contact repulses me. It is "anti arousing".

You are repressing your homosexual urges, and judging others for not doing the same.

He has such dreamy eyes, and can wear the hell out of a cowboy hat! We're all gay it's just to what extent, and the choice has and always will be you're own.

Like I said....not everyone.

At no point do I, are have I ever compared homosexuality to child molesters, nor do I find it a perversion.

I'm simply trying to show that experience, and life choice's show us our way. Other than just to start a fight, I can't even see how you came to that conclusion!

As for we're all gay, you're telling me you can't see an attractive quality in any man, you've never saw a guy with nice eyes, or watched a baseball game, and thought if only to yourself "he's got a nice rear" the greatest lies are the ones we tell ourselves.

But we're arguing something that can never be proven either way, so lets agree to disagree...

OH I gotta respond,

Now I didn't know what gay was until I heard it discussed on the Phil Donahue show what ever year that was.

Having said that I never knew I had an option, and never considered same sex relationships, something that wasn't discussed in my home or in the community.

So if I was born gay I should have had feelings regardless of knowing about homosexuality or not.

I do believe some people are born gay, but I also believe we are influenced by society.

I too know kids my kids grew up with that thought they were gay in high school, but all ended up married, in heterosexual relationships.

Let's take into consideration swingers, the multiple partners and whatever.

Where do they fit in?

LOL

next

I believe that people are born homosexual.

The how and why behind it is not my duty. I chose to not judge them.

I don't think homosexuality is a chose. I go both ways and have always liked both women and men. liking both sexes do cause problems for me sometimes when I think I want to be with a guy but find my self thinking more about women (that's another story).

However, there are some gay people who believe that being gay is a choice. I've never understood how people can believe that gay people chose to be gay.....even other gay people. I for one, didn't chose to like both male and females but I'm glad I'm this way because being different is a gift.

reply to post by iwilliam

who was claiming that homosexuality is a choice.

I don't think homosexuality is necessarily a choice, but I think straight people can choose to have same sex relationships for pleasure even though they are not naturally homosexual.

It is very complicated.

One size does not fit all.

reply to post by iwilliam

I actually had an active fantasy life, many years before puberty.

I was assaulted at age four by the town drunk more than once, which ruined my life in many ways.

I have talked about it before on the forum, but it is humiliating to have to relive what that did to me.

Because of that experience I do believe being sexually assaulted when young can effect your sexuality, and sex life.

iwilliam

terriblyvexed
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I don't like the born that way argument, if you had asked me when I was a child what sexuality I was, except for the defensive "I'M NOT GAY!" kid attitude. I could never have given an honest answer because my sexuality was not truly known to me.

We're all gay, it's just to what extent are you gay.

But to say you've always known you're gay or strait is in my view wrong. I hope we can all agree that child molester's are not natural, but if sexuality is something you just are, and not of you're own choice, then should we show leniency for this perversion? It's who they are, they can't help it, they were born that way, right?

No sexuality is not a born thing it's experience, and choice as you become sexually mature.

I think it's funny, because with this post you're exactly falling into the trap Texan pointed out in his OP. That of thinking that everyone must be like you. Capable of what you're capable of, developed the way you did, etc.

And I also got into this debate in a recent thread as well. Someone claimed that humans are not sexual prior to puberty. And perhaps that's how it is for some people. I assure you it's not like that for everyone. Lots of people, in fact, from many of the people I've spoken to. Personally, I had a disturbingly good understanding of human sexuality from a young age, and I was very attracted to girls / women.

And disturbing as it may sound to some, I actually had an active fantasy life, many years before puberty. Please don't imagine I was a late bloomer, either (regarding puberty.)

Possibly even more disturbing to some, is that even infants masturbate. Of course, it could be argued that with all the nerve endings sexual touch, as something enjoyable, is a separate entity from gender attraction.


All that being said, I will concede that certain aspects of a person's sexuality develop as they do. No, we're not born with all of it, I don't think. Someone with a pantyhose fetish, or someone into feet, red hair, glasses, etc. Certain preferences absolutely do develop I think. Just not ones as basic as gender attraction. Not in a majority of cases, I would venture.

I wasn't looking for a trap just joining a conversation that I enjoy, because I can't see defining a human as different from another. If we all admit to our true feelings I believe we can all find a common ground.

Sexuality is a common ground for all of us, we all have these feelings it's just a question of do you prefer chocolate or vanilla? It's not a moral wrongness it's a choice with many factors through out life contributing to that choice, anyone could have grown up to be gay and/or strait, that's just my position more than an argument.

So what of people who believe that it is a choice? What, in their own personal contexts, would make them believe that people can choose to be aroused by the same sex? It would never occur to me that someone might be able to control what arouses them without extensive psychological training. Nor would it occur to me that one could choose whether or not the same sex is arousing.

That and why the bleep would anyone want to choose to be gay when it's clearly a lot more difficult going through life with that orientation?

I wouldn't give a rat's ass if people chose to be gay. You just eliminated yourself as competition, now hold my beer while I go pitch woo at the busty redhead with the tramp stamp. Really that whole argument is ridiculous. Well it's bad because they chose it and it's not natural! Pfffttttt. If it's not, then why does 'it' work?

Nature, nurture, weird choice who cares? Let people be happy and live their own lives. If you think it's sinful realize you aren't God and you should love your neighbor, not cast the first stone, and that there are much more important things to worry about.

Hey BigFatFurryTexan good thread. Always liked you but my respect really shot up over the last few weeks seeing you first defend your son against that nonsense at school, and then telling us about you being the proud father of a gay son. You strike me as an intelligent, well reasoned guy, a good dude and a good Dad.

If we could choose, everyone would be bisexual and having more fun.

Stormdancer777
I don't think homosexuality is necessarily a choice, but I think straight people can choose to have same sex relationships for pleasure even though they are not naturally homosexual.

It is very complicated.

One size does not fit all.

It indeed does get complicated when straight people do a thing like that. Their sexuality can be called into question. I know people who have claimed to be straight who have had same sex encounters who's sexualities were questioned after being with the same sex many times. This kind of situation gets even more complicated when feelings are involved. There are people who play the straight card to hide the fact that they were gay all along

As my belief and understanding we all choose our sexuality standpoint. Whether you think we are born like this or not we made the choice before we were even born. That means your soul does exist and that prior to being born in the physical body, our soul already was who we are, who we chose to be before we even knew it. Don't ask me to explain it, that's the way it is.

If we were born without the choice....therefore we could not be judged wrong for our immoral behaviors. But we are going to be judged for our choices which is everything we choose to believe, and act upon in our existence.

So are people born gay? In a sense of terms yes. Did they choose this? yes they did before they were born. So there is no excuse, you can change it if you want to. Being born a certain color, or a sexual preference is no excuse. We all get the choice, whether you believe you did or not, you made it already.

Stormdancer777
OH I gotta respond,

Now I didn't know what gay was until I heard it discussed on the Phil Donahue show what ever year that was.

Having said that I never knew I had an option, and never considered same sex relationships, something that wasn't discussed in my home or in the community.

So if I was born gay I should have had feelings regardless of knowing about homosexuality or not.

I do believe some people are born gay, but I also believe we are influenced by society.

I too know kids my kids grew up with that thought they were gay in high school, but all ended up married, in heterosexual relationships.

Let's take into consideration swingers, the multiple partners and whatever.

Where do they fit in?

LOL

next

That is a good point. And because the way women tend to view sex (it is as much emotional as physical), I do think it is easier for a woman to find same sex intercourse to be acceptable.

LOL, a mans body is just not attractive. If a man flashes a woman, she is disgusted and horrified. If a woman flashes a man, he takes it as an invitation.

Seektruthalways1
As my belief and understanding we all choose our sexuality standpoint. Whether you think we are born like this or not we made the choice before we were even born. That means your soul does exist and that prior to being born in the physical body, our soul already was who we are, who we chose to be before we even knew it. Don't ask me to explain it, that's the way it is.

If we were born without the choice....therefore we could not be judged wrong for our immoral behaviors. But we are going to be judged for our choices which is everything we choose to believe, and act upon in our existence.

So are people born gay? In a sense of terms yes. Did they choose this? yes they did before they were born. So there is no excuse, you can change it if you want to. Being born a certain color, or a sexual preference is no excuse. We all get the choice, whether you believe you did or not, you made it already.

edit on 5-10-2013 by Seektruthalways1 because: (no reason given)

Let me make sure i got this straight: before people are born they choose to be gay so that they can be judged harshly for their immoral behavior? So our souls want to be gay, and they knowingly do this to their own detriment?

reply to post by Seektruthalways1

Being born a certain color, or a sexual preference is no excuse. We all get the choice, whether you believe you did or not, you made it already.

Glad I picked white heterosexual male born in America to loving parents and middle class family. Surprised so many others didn't.