Enlightenment in 15-30 days, an EXTREMELY fast method. Mahasi Style Noting

reply to post by dominicus

_damon
I dont get all these people that got the stupid idea that being enlightened is happiness and "bliss". What an utter BS it is. New age at its best, master in lie, confusion and especially false-hope.

Damon is saying that it is not that the happiness and bliss gets better as time goes by as enlightenment 'increases'.

And since most people got the wrong idea that enlightenment is happiness and "a better comfortable peace of mind", they get nowhere. Its more more and more. But what it is not especially, a finality. Thats from there you only start living.

Life is what shows up - and it is not always bliss and happiness.

reply to post by _damon

So what you wrote there in this post, where does it come from? Did you figure it out by yourself or with help? I get the feeling that you are making this up.

Let me say, I have absolutely NO faith in what any human being has ever said about reality. I'm a traveler like you, and I only put my word in what I personally know, not in what I believe or in what I was told. I don't believe a single thing at all, but that's only because I've seen enough truth that I no longer need belief. Truth is much BIGGER than any belief, philosophy, or religion can hold. So no, I'm not a talking parrot.

I mean how the hell can you mistake enlightement with pleasure? Ecstasy? Bliss? AH!

I never said enlightenment was happiness and bliss. And I completely agree with you. I said that plenty of enlightened people, still enjoy their moments of blissful states. It's what charges them up to begin with. They always find time to sit still, and completely fall into that state and it nourishes them.

Enlightenment is just a word for a state that can be reached in many ways. As you say some are lucky and through their past experiences, current state of mind, knowledge, intentions, actions, they sometimes find it. Others will reach it by intense training and strict control of their mind and body.

Nobody reaches enlightenment through intense training and strict control of their mind and body. And it's not a state that can be reached. I'm sorry, there simply is no way you're going to convince me that you can make enlightenment happen to your self. You just as well put on a clown wig and red nose, because that would be entertainment. There is NO possible way to take credit for one's own enlightenment. IMPOSSIBLE.

I repeat myself but the reason is plain simple. And thats why most wont get past a point. Reality fails to meet human's expectations.

If you've had a glimpse of truth or Reality, you would NEVER say something like that. Nobody who has ever experienced the awareness of Reality, has ever said that it " fails to meet" their expectations. That only PROVES they've never seen it. You're not fooling me.

I find this extremely interesting, but I'm having a hard time deciphering the 'noting' mechanism: Why is it that the writer sort of repeats the noting's action once? ('seeing, seeing' , 'hearing, hearing' , etc.)

Is this to be thought as a chant or something, or is there something that I'm specifically missing here?

reply to post by dominicus


So....achieving enlightenment is similar to being functionally retarded then. Okay.

I guess that I'll never agree that the crippling of one's intellectual capacity - on purpose - achieves much of anything at all for the person whose intellectual capacity has been crippled. I would also have to believe that the fastest and surest means of achieving total enlightenment would be to receive a frontal lobotomy, since that would definitely erase a person's ability to have wandering thoughts and/or emotions.

It's strikingly similar to the American Xtian view of the human capacity for intellect - that less is best, with a complete obliteration of intellect altogether seen as akin to leading a Christ-like life.

"Don't think. We'll let you know if you need to know anything. In the meantime, when your brain starts trying to notice anything, just keep repeating 'noticing, noticing, noticing...' until you stop noticing." Man, that's some serious Forrest Gump style living that you folks are advocating.

reply to post by NorEaster


haha you never fail to bring the comedy bro. It is my style.

I think the point is taking control over ones own actions and choices. Less is best for some and more is galore for others.
The less crowd enjoy the benefits the more crowd brings until the more crowd wants to eliminate the less crowd so they can have more.

Your lobotomy idea isn't far from the truth for some people, they stick chips in their heads to neutralize empathy so they can work on full logic without distractions. Take you for example, your logic and wit can be punishing and the humour missed in the process.

reply to post by NorEaster

after all the times we've discussed this, I thought by now you would "get it."

So....achieving enlightenment is similar to being functionally retarded then. Okay.

these are exactly the assumptions that come from those who haven't seen (or tried this technique) for themselves.

your thought based illusuory assumption, is just that, with no weight in actual reality. But if you feel the need to project, go for it!!!

I guess that I'll never agree that the crippling of one's intellectual capacity - on purpose - achieves much of anything at all for the person whose intellectual capacity has been crippled. I would also have to believe that the fastest and surest means of achieving total enlightenment would be to receive a frontal lobotomy, since that would definitely erase a person's ability to have wandering thoughts and/or emotions.

yes....more assumptions with no basis what so ever...... keep em coming. They show the nature of your understanding.

It's strikingly similar to the American Xtian view of the human capacity for intellect - that less is best, with a complete obliteration of intellect altogether seen as akin to leading a Christ-like life.

of course.....let's pick one branch of Christianity, the "american version, and let that represent the whole. Great job buddy

"Don't think. We'll let you know if you need to know anything. In the meantime, when your brain starts trying to notice anything, just keep repeating 'noticing, noticing, noticing...' until you stop noticing." Man, that's some serious Forrest Gump style living that you folks are advocating.

true colors brother!!!!

haven't seen whats at the end of the tunnel, and think you know what's there. Brilliant!!!!

so much for "intellect" in your reply.

but hey, if your replay was intended as more of a "troll" to instigate debate.....it worked!!! You got me to reply. Though its more so for the sake of others seeing the folly in assuming things without having seen for themselves.

WHat Mahasi Method does do, is you eventually find the source of intellect, of thought, of emotion, of life, of vitality, of existence & Beingness. That way when you do decide to use "intellect itself, you instantly realize the folly in assumptions, and therefor are more clear and open to all possibilities without speaking from some sort of bias bubble of programming.

reply to post by dominicus


I like this and I want to try it, but I have developed a problem that hopefully those who have experience can help with.

I am an extreme multitasker. I do several things at once, my mind is always thinking from place to place, and I can control that but I don't want to.

As I am doing things, I perceive them but my mind doesn't have time to think "action, action" for every single action I do. I move quickly and usually based on instinct and reflex.

How do I pick and choose what to perceive in my mind, or should I simply try to perceive it all?

This is not my first time with techniques like this, but this is my first time trying thing particular one.

reply to post by dominicus

Does it really matter to you what anyone says? Why argue and fight to defend your position? If one is ripe the method presented might work.

dominicus
Arguing is a waste of time and a crutch for Ego establishment.

'Who' can say what actually dissolves the illusion of separation? It happens when it does and not before.

Itisnowagain
reply to post by dominicus

 

Does it really matter to you what anyone says? Why argue and fight to defend your position? If one is ripe the method presented might work.

dominicus
Arguing is a waste of time and a crutch for Ego establishment.

'Who' can say what actually dissolves the illusion of separation? It happens when it does and not before.

edit on 12-3-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

there is no argument with noreaster...there is a pointing out of baseless assumptions. That's it!!!!

I used to talk just like him, and then came across an individual who pointed out constructs/assumptions/illusions and then I just stayed quiet for a year and didn't say anything, just watching/observing....contemplating the invitation to see for myself what is the source of existence within me.

its not that I'm defending a position, but inviting people to experience a place that is prior to, and includes all and no positions.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution

I like this and I want to try it, but I have developed a problem that hopefully those who have experience can help with. I am an extreme multitasker. I do several things at once, my mind is always thinking from place to place, and I can control that but I don't want to.

that's the framework of the western mind and there's nothing wrong with that. Most people I know out west are very borderline A.D.D., constant thoughts, multi-tasking, never stopping. My buddy who broke through into Enlightenment (The beginning of it), did so via this method and said it was the only would that would work for him because he is hard core A.D.D.

As I am doing things, I perceive them but my mind doesn't have time to think "action, action" for every single action I do. I move quickly and usually based on instinct and reflex.

Is that instinct and reflex is something that your conscious of, as far as the source of where they come from? The real you is the Perceiver and the purpose of Mahasi Noting is to fully establish the Perceiver as your primal true identity, because then you will find the source of perception itself, and that will be the beginning of Enlightenment.

How do I pick and choose what to perceive in my mind, or should I simply try to perceive it all?

The instructions say the default is to perceive the In/Out breath, and anything that takes attention away from that, is noted (as is the in/out breath). Just play with the method and you'll see its simple and picks up steam. Whatever is the most up front in perception is noted. If a loud sound like bus brakes in traffic grab attention, then note, "Hearing, hearing." Eventually you go back to having to see where you are walking so you note "Seeing, Seeing." Then hunger arises in the stomach, which triggers a train of thoughts as to what to eat for dinner. So you note, "Hunger,", "Thinking," and if the thoughts carry on into a long train of nonsense and illusion, then you note "Wandering," and bring yourself back to the present moment and perceiving itself.

This is not my first time with techniques like this, but this is my first time trying thing particular one.

The mind will come up with excuses, like I am this way and I am a certain other way so will this work for me? Or try it for a few hours or a a few days and self justify stopping the method. Its the mind that;s the trickster..... and has to be seen through and a certain amount of will and concentration established to see this through.

Its a very hard core method and all sorts of cobwebs and subconscious crap will surface that you never even thought was within you. But you keeping going till eventually the source of existence, thought, Being is revealed.....its like an openness, a flow, an everythingness with no end in sight

Double post..

reply to post by NorEaster


Obviously it goes without saying that Thinking and memory is vital for survival, for operating in the physical World. Nobody should be arguing that. However, an intelligent person should also have the ability to discern. In other words, the ability to see the assumptions in their thoughts. If a thought is grounded on an assumption, then it doesn't matter what 'knowledge' tree grows from it.

Thinking is truly not the same thing as intellect. Intellect is recognizing what is real and what is assumed in the thought itself. And when it comes to matters of enlightenment or even Reality, most of the thoughts we have about it, are rooted in VAST assumptions.

Science calls their findings Theories for a reason. Philosophers should have a similar word, indicating that they too, are cognizant of the base assumptions within their questions and, likewise, the base assumptions within their conclusions. And In most instances, if you remove the assumptions from the foundation of all philosophies, theories or equations, they collapse.

reply to post by Visitor2012

Nobody reaches enlightenment through intense training and strict control of their mind and body. And it's not a state that can be reached. I'm sorry, there simply is no way you're going to convince me that you can make enlightenment happen to your self. You just as well put on a clown wig and red nose, because that would be entertainment. There is NO possible way to take credit for one's own enlightenment. IMPOSSIBLE.

Lol Ok. You are doing a fine job in limiting yourself, thinking that way. What makes you think its impossible?

If you've had a glimpse of truth or Reality, you would NEVER say something like that. Nobody who has ever experienced the awareness of Reality, has ever said that it " fails to meet" their expectations. That only PROVES they've never seen it. You're not fooling me.

It is the opposite . And you misunderstood my meaning (or maybe not?). Reality fails to meet human's expectations. In the sense that it is not the gentle, warm, easy to understand, convenient, full of love and others illusions place you expect, and thus most would want to flee such a reality. Most people only care for their comfort, you should not forget that because once you are on the other side, there is no more peace of mind, it is too vast, chaotic, unforgiving. Survival doesnt apply only to the physical world, it is universal even in others worlds, and you should be well aware of that when your time comes because its what decide of who reincarnate or go back to the void.

But "reality" is not something you just can "glimpse". And even if by some chance you do, as long as you are biased, you will not see. The subconscious gets in the way. It will show you something else, ternished and modeled to appear understandable and bearable by your mind, most of the time comfortable, as an auto protection to garantee your sanity. Look it up, it was already named by some occultists: psychic censor.

It is there, and the worst is when you dont see what it does or even ignore its existence, its basically allowing your mind to be in prison forever, a prison of illusions that feed your best expectations and hopes so you keep going in the direction the most comfortable for your mind even if it is the opposite of the initial goal. By the way most NDE aka "death illusions" are coming from the unconscious. White tunnel illusion at work. After years and years of false belief in whatever god and afterlife theory and corrupted spirituality, it all comes back at once and produce these hallucinations and visions to ease your passing. Why do you think the expression "peaceful death" does exist? Nothing to do with guides . There is no red carpet waiting for you in the afterlife.

But you believe whatever you want. Just be aware that there are always new curtains to open. Reality is multilayered. Countless layers that makes it even more difficult to grasp. It doesnt answer to logic either. So whatever glimpse you think you had, true or not, you can be sure they were all misunderstood. Too many expectations, too many assumptions, too many hopes and the psychic censor, all that is your ennemy. You cant hope to succeed if you dont get rid of those first. Enlightenment is more easy once you control yourself and see clearly. And you can achieve it, it does not depend on luck or fate.

reply to post by robhines

robhines
Has he been banned? Looks like it.

ChrisdolmethSachs has changed name to UltraverseMaximus.

dominicus
Yeah, I agree those are complete paths in themselves. This was verified to me also on my India trip. Anapanasati alone, may be one of the key ways to access the Absolute the fastest. However even with these two mentioned, the realizations always grow deeper, reveal more, stabilize and unify as time passes.

I've reached some realizations and professed that "This is it!!!!" within the first few weeks, only to be shown deeper depths of these realizations at a later time, so now there is just silence and seeing how infinitely grand and vast it all is.

Yeah the Heart is a HUGE deal. Also verified on my India trip. Actually this is what happens to all the nondualists if they have a deeper realization, then the I-Feeling that arises in the heart vanishes and there is just the opening/spaciousness there. However there is much more to the heart such as light of consciousness, bliss, visions of future events happen there as well (speaking from experience). This was the trap that I was referencing to "Itsnowagain," because the Nondualists realize one state, and then justify that there is no more and nothing else to be done.

Thanks for the link. It further verifies the heart as the Middle Dan Tian and in need of cultivation/opening/seeing/realizing what is within it.

No probs, and glad you found it useful. Good to know you have some knowledge of anapanasati too, etc. Just posting back as well because I've left it days, and didn't want it to end up being months before I posted back like last time!

Itisnowagain
reply to post by robhines

 

robhines
Has he been banned? Looks like it.

ChrisdolmethSachs has changed name to UltraverseMaximus.

edit on 14-3-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Hahah, ok, thanks.

reply to post by _damon

Lol Ok. You are doing a fine job in limiting yourself, thinking that way. What makes you think its impossible?

I did not say enlightenment was impossible. I said achieving it out of your own effort is impossible. Which is why it is impossible to take credit for it when it does happen. All you can do is become receptive to the possibility of it.

By the way most NDE aka "death illusions" are coming from the unconscious. White tunnel illusion at work. After years and years of false belief in whatevergod and afterlife theory and corrupted spirituality, it all comes back at once and produce these hallucinations and visions to ease your passing. Why do you think the expression "peaceful death" does exist? Nothing to do with guides . There is no red carpet waiting for you in the afterlife.

I've had an NDE and a number of self-induced OBE's and I can tell you have never had either one. It's that obvious. I challenge you to go to a Master and repeat that utter nonsense.

reply to post by Visitor2012


Haha i see thats how it is now. It seems to me that you dont like being challenged? What to expect from a guy that believed in 2012.. I dont care about any of your beliefs. We were talking about facts (although its still too soon to consider them such) not beliefs. If you cant see the one time chance it represents, well too bad!

But if you really had any visions, please do explain why you give them so much credit? What makes you think they mean anything at all? That it is not mere illusions? Why would yours be any truer than others NDE? How did you get a near death exp by the way? What make you think its different from visions you have under psychedelics (no names)? Why would you consider your NDE any different from a dream or lucid dream? What about the psychic censor? Are you so arrogant to think it doesnt apply to you? Because it is there even when you die. You think you do get free knowledge when you die? So all mysteries of the world are revealed to you? When you are born as a babe, do you know anything at all? No you are so confused you cant do # on your own. Well as above, so below, if for a few exceptions.

NDE are based on assumptions, beliefs, experiences, hopes you have. And not only, even your environment does affect them. As long as it resonates with what you believed before, it is sure to be totally subjective and with no grand meaning but personal stuff. You talked about assumptions before right? So take your own words into consideration ok? If you can prove me the contrary, i dare you.

Some things here are obvious, indeed. Certainly not what you stated tho.

reply to post by NorEaster


Crippling? Let me be sure of whats going on here. You do think that no-thoughts or control of one's thoughts makes one dumb? But you still can think and solve problems in these states as well as fonction normally. You just dont have parasite thoughts getting in the way and you are unnaturally calm and serene. No if it does anything to your intellect, it improves it. Were you clear minded at least once in your life? If not, I would understand your trouble of understanding... But if yes, did it feel like you were lobotomized...? Gotta laugh now. Close mindedness at its finest.

reply to post by _damon


Before I get to your post let me ask you one question. You seem to be intelligently skeptical of OBE's. Which makes you the perfect person for experiencing one. You also seem to be very curious about this phenomenon. There are a million techniques out there. Why not try it for yourself? You ask me all of these questions as if the experience was not available to you. Why don't you try it and see for yourself? Or are you just pretending to be curious?

Haha i see thats how it is now. It seems to me that you dont like being challenged? What to expect from a guy that believed in 2012.. I dont care about any of your beliefs. We were talking about facts (although its still too soon to consider them such) not beliefs.

Yeah 2012 was a long time ago. A dozen OBE's later, I'm glad I've finally been disillusioned from virtually all of it. Remind me, what 'Facts' are we talking about?

But if you really had any visions, please do explain why you give them so much credit?

I never said I had visions. Would you call your reality a vision? But the reason why I give NDE's/OBE's so much credit is because they are more real than WAKING life. Naturally, you give more credit to things that are more real than ideas, assumptions, dreams and hallucinations. After all, you do that everyday when you wake up from a dream.

What makes you think they mean anything at all?

I never said they meant anything.

That it is not mere illusions?

I said everything is an illusion. When it comes to mind/body perception it ABSOLUTELY is.

Why would yours be any truer than others NDE?

An NDE or OBE is a hyper awareness and reality NOT a lesser awareness and reality like dreams, hallucinations. And mine is NO different than anyone else's.

How did you get a near death exp by the way? What make you think its different from visions you have under psychedelics (no names)?

That's like asking 'what makes you think real life is different from the visions you have in a dream?' It's a ludicrous question. First of all, reality is not a vision. The only vision here is the one you have in your head about OBE's.

Hallucinations are to OBE's as dreams are to waking life. See, what you're doing is like questioning what an apple looks like, feels like and tastes like when you've never seen one before. And your asking me to explain to you WHY the apple I just ate, is more real than the thought and idea you have about it. Seriously, that's all that's happening.

Why would you consider your NDE any different from a dream or lucid dream?

For the same reason you consider waking life irrefutably different than a dream or a lucid dream.

You think you do get free knowledge when you die? So all mysteries of the world are revealed to you? When you are born as a babe, do you know anything at all? No you are so confused you cant do # on your own. Well as above, so below, if for a few exceptions.

Transcending the mind/body perception DOES reveal a hell of a lot more than walking around blindly trying to extract knowledge from assumptions and in what you think, and believe.

NDE are based on assumptions, beliefs, experiences, hopes you have.

Correction..YOUR assumption is that NDE's are based on assumptions, beliefs, experiences and hopes you have. Assumed because you're just imagining that's what it is. Let's keep it real clear here. An NDE is NONE of the things you described. It is a COMPLETELY transcendental experience.

Some things here are obvious, indeed. Certainly not what you stated tho.

You have no excuse for this. I'm not a teacher, and there is nothing stopping you from finding out yourself. Either you are afraid of what you'll find, or your beliefs and ideas stop you from even trying or you simply just like to stay on the sidelines. Maybe you're so skeptical, that your unwilling to even trust yourself with such an experience. Only you know your excuse.

For something so VITALLY important, we're wasting our time. No offense, but to me, this conversation is like me debating with a man (who refuses to open his own eyes) about what he THINKS is in a letter I just read.

Wouldn't you agree that's silly? Instead, you should be standing on your own two feet. Get busy learning OBE techniques and do it yourself. I guarantee you that in hindsight, you will see how FAR AWAY you were from even remotely understanding the phenomena.

reply to post by Visitor2012

Yeah 2012 was a long time ago. A dozen OBE's later, I'm glad I've finally been disillusioned from virtually all of it.

Hey Visitor,
Have you tried pulling anyone else out into an OBE?

Just wondering