Religion to Disappear By 2041 Claims New Study

winofiend
reply to post by Tardacus

 

That is like saying I don't want to live in a world without santa. [


I mean, "He's gunna find out who's naughty and nice!" so be good kids, or your stockings are gunna be full of coal.

We have no problem growing up and losing that 'faith' yet we still manage to be reasonably nice sometimes. I think to hold morals to ransom, via god, is more a thing to overcome than to embrace.

We don't need chains to be good people. The chains just stop us from being bad. And even with them, more bad comes from those repressed folk than anyone else.

Sorry, but no comparison. Santa Claus is demonstrably fake. God is neither demonstrably fake or real.

Please show us the great works of charity, mercy and compassion that have been performed by atheists throughout the ages.

And BTW, religion isn't about being moral. You can't be good enough to get to Heaven.

This is laughable and not going to happen.

However, what they fail to note is that a majority of people who are self-proclaimed enlightened and anti-religious do have a religion. It's the State. That's their Church. I know plenty of Liberty-minded atheists (I count myself among them) but more often than not I meet agnostics, atheists/anti-theists, .. who worship at the altar of State, Cult of Presidency, etc.

Either way - absolutely ZERO chance of this happening. -Mags

reply to post by Insurrection


You think there is zero chance that the religious could become the minority in the civilized world some time in the future?

Why do you think that?

reply to post by Grimpachi


In the UK the only people who are still church goers are the grannies and the theistic religions are just not convincing the young so the 2041 seems about right to me

Grimpachi
reply to post by Insurrection

 

You think there is zero chance that the religious could become the minority in the civilized world some time in the future?

Why do you think that?

Since I don't want to rehash what the author claims in that coverage piece (since I have not seen the whole study).

1) I think people hugely underestimate the outcomes of Islamic trends across the World. Even if Christianity continues to abate at the rate it does - I don't see Islam doing the same.

2) From the source material I really need to be convinced they aren't just grouping those that would be called "pagans" by others as atheists and I don't think that's the same thing. At all. There are a lot of "other" identifiers in my travels through India and the Chengdu region of China. They don't fit check-boxes but they are very theistic - sometimes polytheistic.

3) I expect in the near future that "other" will get granularity. For example, the Atheist Church movement - and that will seriously effect outcomes of the overall trend. Introducing even more "depends how you count it" errors.

The qualified you used "civilized world" I'd have to has out specifically - because I'd say most of the places Islamists (not Islam itself but Islamists specifically) take hold aren't what I'd consider "civilized world" space. However, in terms of global population and trade it's very relevant. And I don't see those regions going atheist / anti-theist in any significant pattern in the next three decades.

And finally I expect China's rural populations to be counted on entirely differently moving forward - and not with anti-theistic tendencies.

Just not seeing it. No way. Another 30/45 years on top of that and maybe. But I'm thinking more than three societal generations out. -Mags

reply to post by racasan


You are probably right about the European nations. Here in the US I think it will take another 20 or 30 years longer though. We still have problems with creationists infiltrating the boards that decide what will be in school text books. It is happening just at a slower pace.

reply to post by Insurrection


OK I see where you are coming from and I agree however in the OP and the article did differentiate between Muslim population and undeveloped countries in fact it was a study on 137 countries and the trends.

Atheism is illegal in some countries I just read an article on how one atheist was sentenced to beatings and 30 years for being an atheist. Those places were excluded for obvious reasons.

Places where equality and freedom were for all were taken into account. Bialy where people are free to choose those places will become mostly atheist.

reply to post by ShaeTheShaman


Ditto. "His main thesis stems from the phenomenon of religion declining as personal wealth increases." so this guy believes the personal wealth in a world with 11 billion people with dwindling resources (2041) is going to increase across the board personal wealth? That alone is crazy. I believe hard times are coming in many ways.

Grimpachi
reply to post by Insurrection

 

Places where equality and freedom were for all were taken into account. Bialy where people are free to choose those places will become mostly atheist.

I'm not sure I believe that - that is "Western Sensibilities" and I don't think they've taken a good hard look at what has happened in the free but under to failing developed areas. A reversal of this trend in the populations with continued growing birth rates. It is almost as it the study is tending toward more and more privileged to declare success. Just saying where their model won't work - that doesn't really count at where we were looking.

There was a bit about birth rates in certain demographics being increasingly religious again - I'll dig it up and post it. -Mags

reply to post by Insurrection


No need to dig it up. Check the link in the OP it addresses what you are talking about and I believe the article has the link to the study you are referring to.

reply to post by Grimpachi


I was curious to see what was happening in America regarding the declining religion thing and found this

www.policymic.com...

the first 4 items on the list I could have guessed and the fifth is interesting

1) September 11 was terrible press for religion, especially for Christian crusaders who blamed American infidelity for the attacks.
2) The Catholic sex abuse scandal, which broke in 2002, revealed systematic institutional cover-up of heinous crimes. One-third of American Catholics’ have actively left the church, meaning about 10% of Americans are ex-Catholics. This has led to a general disrespect for all clergy: in 2010, only 53% of Americans said that ministers had high ethical standards, which makes them as bad as post-recession Wall Street bankers.
3) The Protestant conflict over homosexuality boiled over in 2003 with the election of Gene Robinson as an Episcopal bishop. The media storm led to schism and bad reputation for the more mainline protestant churches, which had always been seen as friendly, open and progressive.
4) The political victory of the religious right in 2004 came at the expense of alienating everyone who is not comfortable mixing politics and religion, especially millennials. "Christian" and "Religious" were made synonymous with anti-homosexual, judgmental, exclusive, hypocritical, insensitive, and boring.
5) Finally, the economic recession of 2007 destroyed many charities, including religious organizations that could no longer afford to serve their primary missions.

I would also include the internet – if the internet is a market place for ideas then I am just not seeing the religious winning over anybody there – in fact if religious youtubers are anything to go by then they are doing more damage to religion than any atheist could

reply to post by Snsoc


Are you seriously trying to argue the validity of religion by claiming santa is demonstrably false but god is not? Two concepts that were created by humans in times of ignorance, but only one of which sufferes the burden of proof? Ahh.. no..

Oo

I am not sure if I can help you with that.

It's got a lot of stuff I need a face for.


As to showing you works of athiests throughout history? How can I do this when religion has spread itself by mostly violent incursion, wiping out any opposition by conversion or death, into almost every place where humans have existed?

Impossible.

Ask for a glass of water in a desert siphoned dry by the people selling you water.. good call.

racasan
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

In the UK the only people who are still church goers are the grannies and the theistic religions are just not convincing the young so the 2041 seems about right to me

When the new pope was shuffled into position, I saw many school children claiming how he is more in touch with the youth (no puns please!! oO) than previous popes and that it would be good to have a more engaging pope for younger folk.

So don't be fooled by the granny plague. It's affecting the kids too. And given we live in a time of technology up the wazoo, it's amazing how they can render their minds truncated in such a way.

reply to post by winofiend


Well maybe so but I for one am not all that shocked at Catholics saying nice things about the pope, I have a lot of mates in the UK and Scandinavia and I know more people into the Viking religion thing than I know Catholics

but it looks as if there aren’t enough replacements for the natural wastage of the grannies – churches in the UK are closing at about 2 per week

reply to post by Grimpachi


Well, most likely I'll still be around, so faith in a deity won't be completely gone.

I also have kids, and they've been brought up to believe in a God, so there's 4 people just through me; what about the rest of the world?

Seems like this guy is seeing the future through his own brand of rose-colored glasses.

hmmmm.....lets see.....let me make ohhhh a bit of a wild guess......ummmmm.....could he be....

an "Atheist"????? noooooo!!!!

Even if the author is right in correlating atheism and economic growth, the massive flaw in his argument is the assumption that economic growth will continue, irreversibly.
Surely the last few years alone have killed off that assumption.
By the same token, if the world collapses, economically, politically, and environmentally, then some sort of religious belief- though not necessarily the mainstream traditional ones- would be likely to come to the fore.

Anyone trying to predict the future from "continuation of existing trends" should take warning from the tongue-in-cheek calculation made by Mark Twain in "Life on the Mississippi", when he comments on the historical reduction in the length of the river, and works out that at some astronomical date in the future the length will have come down to about fifty miles.

The trend away from religion and God is clear, but the bible said this would happen.
It also speaks about the political system stomping the religious system once it gets weak enough, threads like these show me that time is getting closer, as I embrace that time, these types of reports make me just as happy as an atheist, but for a very opposite reason.

Humans have had religious and spiritual beliefs for tens of thousands of years.
I doubt that it's all going to disappear any time soon.
However, the world would be better off without a lot of the extremism in organized religions.
I wouldn't mind seeing humanity evolve some more and make that ignorance disappear.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Religion and Science are the same.

Time has altered our definition of both which is why we think it separate.

One day we will be technologically advanced enough to understand both (if we don't destroy ourselves in the process).