The big bad Bible

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


You really think that God will admit you into the heavenly realm despite someone CONTINUING to perform evil acts, despite their belief and faith in him?

God is very clear on that, and we are judged by both faith and deed also. You will still receive your just punishment for your evil; just because you pray to God does not mean your prayer will elicit any blessings from the Lord.

And just as there is "tons" of evidence supporting the bible, there's tons of evidence going the other way. You can probably find lots of it on this website if you wish.

You believe the official story. I'll believe what ever I want.

This was my point about deeds. According to Luther's theology, deeds mean nothing to God. We are saved by faith. Much of the Christian church has indoctrinated Luther's theology. Your saying God judges the deeds. I would agree. So what do you think about Martin Luther's theology, and his impact on Christianity.

reply to post by randyvs

Not at all.
Because what I said is true.

No it isn't.

Go say the word "Jesus" to someone and see what happens. Say it to a baby. Say it to a dog. Say it to a tree. What happens? Nothing. Because "His name" is meaningless outside of those who pretend it is meaningful.

You would have to first convince someone that "His name" is meaningful before it would have any effect. Until then, it is just another word.

apydomis

Your deeds reveal your faith

Doesn't this statement contradict Luther's theology of "saved by faith alone?"

NiNjABackflip
reply to post by randyvs

 

Not at all.
Because what I said is true.

No it isn't.

Go say the word "Jesus" to someone and see what happens. Say it to a baby. Say it to a dog. Say it to a tree. What happens? Nothing. Because "His name" is meaningless outside of those who pretend it is meaningful.

You would have to first convince someone that "His name" is meaningful before it would have any effect. Until then, it is just another word.

Yes..many Christians believe the word Jesus is an incantation and that by saying or believing the name of Jesus some action or miracle will happen like being saved or being healed etc etc...

That fact is Jesus is not a "name".It is the English transliteration of the Latin transliteration of the Greek translation of the Hebrew name Yahoshua.For the Israelites the name of something or someone has a meaning because it is the nature/character of the thing or person named.

In general ...in our time names are labels to call something/someone and have none to little meaning.In ancient times names had a lot of meaning.Hebrew names quite frequently use Yah or El as prefix or suffix

Yahoshua(Yehoshua,Yahshua.Yeshua,Yesu..) means

YAHweh = literally means "I will be what I will be". It is frequently referred to as YHWH the tetragramatton..which means the 4 letter name which most refer to as "I Am"
shua=salvation,deliverance

Yahoshua=Yahweh(God) is salvation(deliverance)

The religious turned the name of Yahoshua into a doctrine of men.When the apostles said it they knew what it meant.They were saying it as...not anything we are doing is causing anything to be...it is Gods salvation/deliverance...ex..in the "name" of Yahoshua you are healed.

It isn't an incantation but a proclamation of what is or will be..."I will be what I Will be")

The same twisting of the meaning of a name(making it void and mean nothing) is when Paul writes Christ Jesus and Christians make a doctrine of men from it.

Christ is the transliteration of the Greek christos the translation of the Hebrew mashiach which means the anointing or the anointed one.Anointed means to smear on with oil.It was a symbol of the power of God being imparted onto someone.

Unfortunately Christians will continue to "mock" the name (nature) of Yahoshua by their traditions and doctrines of men and make the living word of God void.Fortunately it has no effect at all on the nature of God.There is nothing magical in the pronunciation of the names of God.It will not cause anything to happen one way or the other.God is doing everything without mans help.IMO it is very advantageous to Know the name of God because knowing a name means knowing the nature.However the pronunciation of the name is not the knowing or the reason.

reply to post by Rex282


It sounds like the alpha and omega is quite literally the alphabet. Without it, what religions would there be? If there was no written word, there would be no Bible, and no God or any of the names you listed.

Thanks for explaining.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip

Go say the word "Jesus" to someone and see what happens. Say it to a baby. Say it to a dog. Say it to a tree. What happens? Nothing. Because "His name" is meaningless outside of those who pretend it is meaningful.

I never said his name made a magic bell hop out of him. You really don't know the differencce do you ?

reply to post by AfterInfinity
Are you kidding me.
First off its pages & pages of rambling diatribe, and its meant to be comedy.
Additionally, I can tell you right off the top that he has a lot of the same issues that many back-slid Roman Catholics have. Yes, he was a Roman Catholic. Roman Catholicism doesn't hold many of the same values as Christianity. For starters it's a “works” based religion, and doctrine wise they claim both “church tradition” (aka tradition from the old roman pagan church) and “the Bible” in equal standing. That's why Romes Doctrines change so frequently, and they have libraries full of doctrinal law, papal decrees, etc. So they can justify their unbiblical actions as being acceptable. This is also why many Christians believe that the Pope is the "Antichrist" (ALL the original protestant faiths taught this including Luther, Calvin, Wesley, and even Issac Newton), and why the RCC itself is the "Beast". In contrast, the Lutheran Church is based solely on the bible and “Luther's small catechism” (which is nothing more then an explanation of what the bible is saying on certain key points such as the “ten commandments”). The small catechism is only about 100 pages long, written in large woodblock lettering, and has not changed since the day Luther wrote it back in the 1500's.

Wandering Scribe
Though I'm not sure if it was your intent, I'll go ahead and say "thank you" for pulling up the Biblical references that support my stance that, under Lutheran doctrine, the absolute worst of society can get into Heaven without changing their ways.

That is not Lutheran Doctrine, its Christian Doctrine held by all protestant faiths. The only difference with Roman Catholic Doctrine is that they base salvation on “works and faith”.

Wandering Scribe
That whole thing about all sin being equal in God's eyes though... that's not the kind of thing which makes God look great.

Since I am sure that you are very into the sciences please answer this question for me...

Which is greater Infinity or Infinity?

With that in mind, to an infinitely holy being, a “little white lie” = an infinitely evil sin.
“murder” also = an infinitely evil sin...

So which is the greater sin in the eyes of an infinitely holy being?
In other words they are both infinite and equally sin.

bigman88
God is very clear on that, and we are judged by both faith and deed also.

The Bible is very clear on this point. Grace is grace because it does not rely on works. If it relied on works its no longer grace:

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

You are saved by grace alone that no one may boast of their being “better” or “more deserving” as we are all equally undeserving:

Ephesians 2:9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.

bigman88
just because you pray to God does not mean your prayer will elicit any blessings from the Lord

You are correct, you have to pray, have faith, be repentant, and have a changed heart. While that seems like a list of things you have to do, they result from one another. So just by having a true faith a Christian will become repentant, his heart will change, and he will seek out God in prayer. A true Christian will also want to do works due to his changed heart, but they have no effect on your salvation as a million works cannot pay off an infinite debt. Works are a sign of a change in your heart, they are not a requirement for salvation. In other words they are a symptom, not the root cause.

reply to post by Tucket

The same as above applies here.
Grace is a gift, if you have to “earn” it, its no longer a gift.
In other words, as a person you cannot claim any responsibility for your salvation, its beyond your power to save yourself, correct? If you have to “earn” grace through works, then you are essentially saying you have to “earn” your salvation, which is not possible.

If I said, “hey I have a gift for you, but I'm only going to give it to you if you cut my lawn first”, is it still a “gift” or am I making you “earn” it?

A little late to the party but...

If you have faith then the bible is God's divine will that caused it to happen as it did, if you don't have faith then its the "big bad bible"

Not much to debate here unless debating faith is actually something that can be debated.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Yes..You ARE saved(its a process not an event) BY grace THROUGH faith..both are gifts from God..they aren't mans works they are Gods "workmanship.In other words God is saving everyone.ANY work is not grace through faith.All the work is done by God alone.None "choose" to be saved nor can none reject it ..both are works...it is a gift.

reply to post by Tucket


Christianity has had 2013 years to get the story right and people are still finding reasons to disbelieve the narrative. The Jews, of course, never did believe the narrative. Many of them followed Jesus' teachings (after all, he was one of them) but once Paul took his version of it to the gentiles they opted out.
I have studied the history of the development of Christianity and have been much influenced by the theories of Barbara Thiering, an Australian theologian, who thinks that a lot of the New testament is written in code with two levels of meaning, a surface level of meaning that can be understood by 'babes' (those not initiated into the knowledge) and a deeper level of meaning that can be understood by initiates. Her theories have never been disproved and in my opinion have a consistent inner logic. Her books are a very revealing description of Jesus' ministry and life and deliver a completely believable, logical explanation of stories such as Jesus' feeding of the five thousand.

Question... Are Christians going to heaven because they believe they are saved and going?

What about Christians who believe they are saved but don't follow the rules of the bible. If Hitler thought he was saved, did he go to heaven?

reply to post by ciscoagent
I don't know how you could say the jews don't believe in Jesus .. There are jews getting saved nearly every day and their numbers keep growing ..There are also Gentiles that keep being added to the church as well ...peace

Interesting, I'll check out Barbara Theiring.

reply to post by defcon5


I would like to begin by saying I respect your position in the subject. I am not here to judge you or condescend to you because of our difference in opinions. With that said, I'd like to explore the mechanics of your position.

The Bible is very clear on this point. Grace is grace because it does not rely on works. If it relied on works its no longer grace:

grace
grās/
noun
1.
simple elegance or refinement of movement.
2.
(in Christian belief) the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.

The free and unmerited favor...if such is the case, then why is it that we are asked for something in return? It is clearly a bargain, not a gift. If you do not believe, you are not accepted. If you do not abide by the terms and conditions, the deal is off. How does that constitute as free and unmerited?

reply to post by randyvs


You were talking as if his name could power a Prius. That is understandable though, because his name is all we are privy to. Might as well work with what we do have, eh? Praying to a word is easier than praying to nothing.