I Finally Understand Why Abortion Can't Be Discussed Logically.

windword
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Common sense states that one doesn't ignore basic definitions, and simple science, to excuse killing people, too.

Common sense states that a fertilized, single cell egg is NOT a person. Birth control such as "the pill" isn't killing people, this is simple science!

That's not true. When an egg is fertilized, it is no longer an egg, and you have unique DNA of a new, unique person. Birth control such as the pill can possibly kill, as well, because sometimes the pills don't prevent the pregnancy, and cause it to stop, instead. That isn't something they widely advertise, but it's true. Barrier methods, on the other hand,do simply prevent pregnancy, most of the time. NO method is 100%, in any case.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

That's not true. When an egg is fertilized, it is no longer an egg,

LOL. Is that the same with chickens too?

and you have unique DNA of a new, unique person.

Strands of DNA do not a person make.

Birth control such as the pill can possibly kill, as well, because sometimes the pills don't prevent the pregnancy, and cause it to stop, instead.

What? The "Pill" causes what to stop?

I'm sorry, but you're wrong, the "Pill" DOES prevent pregnancy, most of the time. Pregnancy, as defined by the American Medical Association and the American Board of Obstetrics & Gynecology, begins at IMPLANTATION.

That isn't something they widely advertise, but it's true.

It's only true in the "Pro-life" cult.

windword
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

That's not true. When an egg is fertilized, it is no longer an egg,

LOL. Is that the same with chickens too?

We aren't talking about chickens, but about human beings.

windword
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

and you have unique DNA of a new, unique person.

Strands of DNA do not a person make.

Unique DNA is an indicator of a new person, and not some "organ" of the mother's. This is basic science.

windword
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Birth control such as the pill can possibly kill, as well, because sometimes the pills don't prevent the pregnancy, and cause it to stop, instead.

What? The "Pill" causes what to stop?

Birth control pills can terminate a pregnancy. The sentence was written clearly.

windword
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I'm sorry, but you're wrong, the "Pill" DOES prevent pregnancy, most of the time. Pregnancy, as defined by the American Medical Association and the American Board of Obstetrics & Gynecology, begins at IMPLANTATION.

"Most" of the time isn't all of the time. Some pills do prevent implantation, which means they end a pregnancy. Life begins at conception, not implantation.

windword
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

That isn't something they widely advertise, but it's true.

It's only true in the "Pro-life" cult.

"Cult"? So, if someone disagrees with you, they are part of a "cult"? Name calling is the surest sign a person knows they are losing a debate.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

We aren't talking about chickens, but about human beings.

Humans are animals. You can't get around that!

Does a human ova instantly transform into a human being the moment of fertilization? Categorically, the answer is a resounding "NO"! Just like a fertilized chicken egg is NOT a chicken. Nor is a germinated seed a tree.

windword
Strands of DNA do not a person make.

Unique DNA is an indicator of a new person

No it is not. DNA is a blue print for an organic body. A fertilized egg isn't a person. DNA isn't a person.

and not some "organ" of the mother's.

LOL! Who ever said that a fertilized egg is a female body organ?

This is basic science.

Nothing you have said qualifies as anything but pseudo-science.

Birth control pills can terminate a pregnancy.

No. Birth control pills do not terminate pregnancy

Windword
I'm sorry, but you're wrong, the "Pill" DOES prevent pregnancy, most of the time. Pregnancy, as defined by the American Medical Association and the American Board of Obstetrics & Gynecology, begins at IMPLANTATION.

"Most" of the time isn't all of the time.

No method of birth control is 100% effective. Some women WILL get pregnant while on "The Pill".

Some pills do prevent implantation, which means they end a pregnancy. Life begins at conception, not implantation.

There can be no "ending of pregnancy" before an actual pregnancy.

Pregnancy begins at IMPLANTATION. That is a scientific fact.

There can be no "ending of pregnancy before an actual pregnancy. Pregnancy begins at IMPLANTATION. That is a scientific fact.

Life has no known beginning. This is basic science.

Life does not equal pregnancy.

"Cult"? So, if someone disagrees with you, they are part of a "cult"? Name calling is the surest sign a person knows they are losing a debate.

Yes, pro-life dogma is cultish! They have their own pseudo-science that is only true in their own circles. Things like redefining medical terms like pregnancy and life to fit their won world views, making up stuff to evoke emotional responses like (impossible) fetal pain , or heartbeat equals viability arguments, are sure signs people know they're losing an argument and have to appeal to cult like unreal belief systems and lies to stay in the debate.

windword
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

We aren't talking about chickens, but about human beings.

Humans are animals. You can't get around that!

No, humans are human. Animals are animals.

windword
No it is not. DNA is a blue print for an organic body. A fertilized egg isn't a person. DNA isn't a person.

DNA is an indicator of a person. Unique DNA means that we aren't talking about some group pf cells belonging to the mother, but about a new and unique human being. You can pretend otherwise all day, but that won't change the facts.

windword
LOL! Who ever said that a fertilized egg is a female body organ?

Lots of pro-abortionists make that claim.

windword
I'm sorry, but you're wrong, the "Pill" DOES prevent pregnancy, most of the time. Pregnancy, as defined by the American Medical Association and the American Board of Obstetrics & Gynecology, begins at IMPLANTATION.

"Most of the time" isn't all of the time, and some of those times, some pills end a life.

windword
Pregnancy begins at IMPLANTATION. That is a scientific fact.

Life begins at conception. That is a fact.

windword
Yes, pro-life dogma is cultish! They have their own pseudo-science that is only true in their own circles. Things like redefining medical terms like pregnancy and life to fit their won world views, making up stuff to evoke emotional responses like (impossible) fetal pain , or heartbeat equals viability arguments, are sure signs people know they're losing an argument and have to appeal to cult like unreal belief systems and lies to stay in the debate.

I could apply some labels to pro-abortion dogma. Care to hear those? If not, then stop tossing out insulting labels, and try debating like an adult. If you want to use the term "cult" against pro-lifers, be fully prepared, with no complaints, to hear terms like "pagan rituals" used against your side.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

If you want to use the term "cult" against pro-lifers, be fully prepared, with no complaints, to hear terms like "pagan rituals" used against your side.

Pro-lifers are a CULT!

A cult is a religious group or other organization with deviant and novel beliefs and practices.

Examples of their deviant or novel beliefs of the pro-life "religion" are: That a fertilized egg is a person whose rights should trump those of its host, Their retooled and re-redefined the definition of pregnancy, a definition that goes against the medical definitions and then there's novel claim to know when life begins.

The pro-life "culters" promote false pseudo science, like "When an egg is fertilized, it is no longer an egg", "Human's aren't animals" the impossible contention of fetal pain, fetal masturbation, A heart beat equals viability, and on and on.......

No, humans are human. Animals are animals.

If humans aren't animal, then what are they?

DNA is an indicator of a person. Unique DNA means that we aren't talking about some group pf cells belonging to the mother, but about a new and unique human being. You can pretend otherwise all day, but that won't change the facts.

Oh dear, more pseudo science! DNA is not a living thing, is't a molecule.

DNA is non-living, because it is a molecule not an organism, and this molecule is not sharing organisms in any property, even in replication process as it needs co-workers ( e.g. Enzymes, RNA co-factors ) to succeed its replication.

DNA is a nucleic acid composed of two chains of nucleotides in which the sugar is deoxyribose and the bases are adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine (compare RNA). The two chains are wound round each other and linked together by hydrogen bonds between specific complementary bases to form a spiral ladder-shaped molecule.

DNA is chemical compound composed of chain of peptides and proteins strung together in a double helix formation that is like a blueprint in telling the organic chemistry in your body how to build cells, what kind of cells, and where to build them. And chemical compounds can not be considered as a living things, because in realty, all chemical compounds ( e.g enzymes, fats , lipids , proteins , ........... etc ) are non-living things. So, if we said DNA is living, we to say that all chemical compounds are living also.

www.biology-online.org...

Life begins at conception. That is a fact.

More cultish claims based on pseudo science. Claiming that "Life begins at conception" is the same as claiming that life began in the Garden of Eden. Scientifically impossible.

The fact is, science doesn't know when life began. Life is a continuous cycle. There is NO point when science can say, "This is when life begins, or when it ends!"

Another aspect of the cultish nature of the pro-life community is their unrealistic reliance on the biblical God as a source of their beliefs, while the Bible nowhere admonished abortions, and actually promotes it on several occasions. Also, the Bible seems to promote the "first breath" concept of the beginning of a human life, as in "God breathed into Adam's nostrils, and he became a living soul."

originally posted by: windword
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

If you want to use the term "cult" against pro-lifers, be fully prepared, with no complaints, to hear terms like "pagan rituals" used against your side.

Pro-lifers are a CULT!

I could say the same. These days, the aborted babies are being used for heating. Tossed into flames. Ever heard of Moloch? Do you really want to talk about cults on this issue? I have a LOT more to say there than you can.

originally posted by: windword

A cult is a religious group or other organization with deviant and novel beliefs and practices.

I would call killing unborn children and tossing them into a furnace deviant and abnormal behavior myself, and so would most sensible people. Using them for heating makes it even worse. As usual, you have everything backwards and upside down.

originally posted by: windword
If humans aren't animal, then what are they?

Humans are people. We have souls, and are made in the image of God. I really feel sorry for people that think no better of themselves that they can call themselves an animal.

Since that is your point of view, there is simply no point in continuing this discussion. I will never, ever, change my point of view on this issue.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I would call killing unborn children and tossing them into a furnace deviant and abnormal behavior myself, and so would most sensible people. Using them for heating makes it even worse. As usual, you have everything backwards and upside down.

Right! Too many women are getting pregnant so that they can abort their fetus for heating usage!

Humans are people. We have souls, and are made in the image of God.

Do you think that sexual intercourse creates a soul? Any kind of sexual intercourse, like rape, fornication, adultery, one night stands, sweaty drunken orgies........doesn't matter all sex creates a pure, brand spankin new innocent soul?

I don't believe that. I believe that the soul is eternal, always existed and always will. The soul chooses the body, not the other way around. I think you've got your priorities backwards.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

No, humans are human. Animals are animals.

No Humans are mammals from the animal kingdom that reside on earth.

Humans are people. We have souls, and are made in the image of God. I really feel sorry for people that think no better of themselves that they can call themselves an animal.

To think highly of oneself is described as having pride.

Isn't pride one of the 7 deadly sins God warned his sheep of?

An animal is enlightened, it serves its purpose in Gods creation not overstepping its boundaries and killing for reasons created by us.

Humans on the other hand are unenlightened animals searching and debating truths and false truths as is evidenced right here.

originally posted by: windword
Right! Too many women are getting pregnant so that they can abort their fetus for heating usage!

If you twist that any further, you might break it. The abortion industry is taking that action, not the women they prey on.

originally posted by: windword
Do you think that sexual intercourse creates a soul? Any kind of sexual intercourse, like rape, fornication, adultery, one night stands, sweaty drunken orgies........doesn't matter all sex creates a pure, brand spankin new innocent soul?

I don't believe that. I believe that the soul is eternal, always existed and always will. The soul chooses the body, not the other way around. I think you've got your priorities backwards.

A new life is created at conception, period. I hold to the Christian viewpoint on that. I know you don't, and as I stated, we are never going to agree. There is thus no reason to continue. We hold diametrically opposed points of view.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Humans are people. We have souls, and are made in the image of God. I really feel sorry for people that think no better of themselves that they can call themselves an animal.

To think highly of oneself is described as having pride.

Isn't pride one of the 7 deadly sins God warned his sheep of?

An animal is enlightened, it serves its purpose in Gods creation not overstepping its boundaries and killing for reasons created by us.

Humans on the other hand are unenlightened animals searching and debating truths and false truths as is evidenced right here.

You can't claim that I am wrong for following what the Bible says, then claim I should follow the Bible to support your position. Try again.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

A new life is created at conception, period. I hold to the Christian viewpoint on that.

That is not THE Christian position. It's your position, and coincidentally some, not all, Christians agree. There is no consolidated Christian opinion of when a fertilized becomes a living, breathing soul, but, for the most part Christianity has had a "first breath" philosophy, based on Genesis.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You can't claim that I am wrong for following what the Bible says, then claim I should follow the Bible to support your position.

Yes that would be stupid.

However, I didn't make any claims of anyone being right or wrong,

I just asked a question based on what you wrote about thinking highly of oneself and gave my opinion on humans and animals and the reason it differs from yours.

Try again.

Err No thanks, not sure what you think I was trying the first time to try again