The Third Secret of Fatima and the "Black Pope".

I'm not sure if I am posting this in the right forum or not. Mods do your thing if it needs to be moved.

I have always been fascinated by the Fatima Prophecies. Many of you who peruse these forums know that it has been speculated that the third prophecy (or secret) of Fatima has to do with the Apostasy of the Catholic church during the last days of that institution. Mary appeared six times to three shepherd children at Fatima, Portugal in 1917. Besides the message of amendment of life, praying the Rosary and doing penance, she entrusted them with three secrets; commonly known as the 3 Secrets of Fatima. There are however, many more prophecies from lesser known prophets that say the same fate awaits the Catholic church.

In the early 17th century, a Conceptionist nun in Ecuador, Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres (1563–1635), was the recipient of various apparitions from the Mother of God, including many prophecies concerning the 20th century. The fact that these prophecies date back 400 years makes them especially noteworthy. Mother Mariana’s incorrupt body was discovered in 1906 and can still be seen today.

Thus I make it known to you that from the end of the 19th century and shortly after the middle of the 20th century… It will be difficult to receive the Sacrament of Baptism, and also that of Confirmation… The Catholic spirit will rapidly decay; the precious light of the Faith will gradually be extinguished…”
“Various heresies will be propagated in this land, then a free Republic. As these heresies spread and dominate, the precious light of Faith will be extinguished in souls by the almost total corruption of customs [morals]… The small number of souls who, hidden, will preserve the treasure of the Faith and the virtues will suffer an unspeakably cruel and slow martyrdom…”

In 1846, the Mother of God appeared to two shepherd children in La Salette, France. She gave them many warnings about how God is going to punish mankind if mankind did not stop sinning. She also made some startling predictions.

"In every place there will be extraordinary prodigies, because the true Faith has been extinguished.
[T]he abomination shall be seen in holy places, in convents, and then the demon shall make himself the king of hearts. Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of Antichrist.”

A quick google search will reveal many more than these few I've listed here.

www.tldm.org...

www.catholicherald.co.uk... urch-then-through-the-faith-of-the-just-a-complete-restoration/

www.olrl.org...

Now we have a Pope who is making revolutionary statements compared to previous popes.

”If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”

On the subject of atheism, Francis says non-believers should

”obey their conscience” and that “God’s mercy has no limits.”

He’s even suggesting that he’s open to a debate on married priests. His second-in-command told a Venezuelan newspaper that celibacy is not dogma, therefore the concept of priestly celibacy should “reflect the democratic spirit of the times.”

So what I am wanting to know is what if the actions of the current Pope tie in somehow with the third secret of Fatima? There are many prophecies that say the Catholic church will be led astray in the end times. What if Pope Francis really is the last pope and what we are seeing is the beginning of the Apostasy in the church's final days?

Thoughts?

Matthew 16:18 "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it". Christ was very clear that the Church will not ever fall. Any "prophesy" that says otherwise is false and not from God.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior

I think that whether or not the new Pope could be considered a candidate for Antichrist would depend on whether or not you interpret the Bible and the various prophecies literally or figuratively. If say you were to interpret the RCC as being corrupt ( Spirit of Antichrist) and the new Pope as being a dragonslayer (throwing the closets open and letting the skeletons and cobwebs fly out) you might would interpret it as he being an agent of the Christ. It just really depends on your perspective.

reply to post by ccross

Matthew 16:18 "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it". Christ was very clear that the Church will not ever fall. Any "prophesy" that says otherwise is false and not from God.

There are a few popes that have even had visions of this apostasy themselves.

www.marienfried.com...

Pope Leo XIII

… there is good reason to fear lest this great perversity may be as it were a foretaste, and perhaps the beginning of those evils which are reserved for the last days.

Pope Pious XII

“A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God. In our churches, Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them. Like Mary Magdalene, weeping before the empty tomb, they will ask, ‘Where have they taken Him?’”

“I am worried by the Blessed Virgin’s messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a Divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul. … I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the true Faith of the Church, reject Her ornaments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past.”

These are just a small sampling, there are many other people of note that foretell the same thing happening to the church.

What the Pope has said recently, regarding not judging gay priests, or saying that ultimately, it is up to God's mercy who he saves, are right in line with church teaching. Benedict or John Paul II could have said either of those two things, but did not. And it is true that not allowing priests to marry is church policy, not doctrine -- the first "Pope", St. Peter, was clearly married according to the Bible, and Anglican priests today who are married when they convert to the Roman Catholic faith can become married Roman Catholic priests. See What's the deal about legally married priests? for more info.

The head of the Jesuit order is colloquially referred to as the "Black Pope", but while Francis is a Jesuit, when he became a Cardinal, he was no longer "under" the head of the Jesuit order, so the reference is not really relevant.

reply to post by littled16


I am not saying that he is the Antichrist, I am just wondering if he is to lead the catholic church to a total "reformation" of some type that will lead to the apostasy that many of these prophecies predict. That would in effect make him the last pope of St. Malachys prophecies.

adjensen
What the Pope has said recently, regarding not judging gay priests, or saying that ultimately, it is up to God's mercy who he saves, are right in line with church teaching. Benedict or John Paul II could have said either of those two things, but did not. And it is true that not allowing priests to marry is church policy, not doctrine -- the first "Pope", St. Peter, was clearly married according to the Bible, and Anglican priests today who are married when they convert to the Roman Catholic faith can become married Roman Catholic priests. See What's the deal about legally married priests? for more info.

The head of the Jesuit order is colloquially referred to as the "Black Pope", but while Francis is a Jesuit, when he became a Cardinal, he was no longer "under" the head of the Jesuit order, so the reference is not really relevant.

So then why is Francis the first Pope to make such statements? His predecessors certainly never did. In fact, I remember Pope Benedict catching alot of flak a few years back because he said gay people and atheists as well should repent, and pray they find their way to God.

And my reference to the Black pope was from Nostradamus prediction about the last pope, not the Jesuit pope we currently have. I should have been clear with that in my OP. Although it is an interesting correlation between the two when you think about it.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior

Well, if you want to go at it from that angle I'm pretty sure a large portion of the St. Malachey prophecies was proven to be a hoax but we can roll with it..... Per a few other propheies if the new Pope were to turn out to be the final Pope that brings down the RCC then there also exists the possibility that he could be the False Prophet or predecessor to the False Prophet who helps to usher in a One World religion. Pardon me for not linking but it's been a few years since I was into reading prophecy. Honestly I don't think he's the one, but who knows?

reply to post by littled16


He seems to be a good man, and he has done quite a few things to break away from the actions of the former popes that makes him look good in the public eye, such as:

tv.msnbc.com...

Francis offered up a few gestures to demonstrate a break from his predecessor Benedict. Rather than living in the grand papal apartment, Francis resides in the modest Vatican guest house.
The Vatican’s garbage collectors were the first employees he invited to morning masses. And instead of washing the feet of 12 priests during an Easter Week ritual, as tradition dictates, Francis washed the feet of 12 young inmates including two women and two Muslims.

He showed up to World Youth Day in Rio de Janeiro, not in the imposing Popemobile, but in the back of a rental car. He’s not above taking a selfie with the kids. He plans on driving a used car around town. And he’s urged others to do the same: ”It hurts me when I see a priest or a nun with the latest model car. A car is necessary to do a lot of work, but please, choose a more humble one. If you like the fancy one, just think about how many children are dying of hunger in the world.”

Perhaps most amazing of all: the pope is now picking up the phone and calling people who write to him for advice and prayers–earning him the nickname “Cold Call Pope.” He phoned a woman who had been raped by a police officer in Argentina, telling her she was not alone, and to have faith in the justice system.
He’s comforted a pregnant woman whose married boyfriend tried to pressure her into an abortion, Francis offering to personally baptize her baby.

I think the first thing he did as Pope was replace St. Peters throne with a simple chair to sit on also.

I don't think anyone would deny that he is behaving like a good man should, but if you read alot of prophecies (as well as the bible) it does say the antichrist fools everybody into trusting him. So I'm not saying that its impossible for him to be the antichrist at all, but what really interest me is all of these prophecies that talk about a massive transformation in the Catholic church and the total breakaway that Pope Francis seems to be making with the traditions of the former popes.

reply to post by ccross


What church might that be? Im sure the bible wasnt referring to the Roman Catholic Church. Or any other denominations for that matter.

We need to understand that the Church itself will never fall even though people inside the Church will, and do fall all the time. A common misunderstanding is that the Pope is infallible which only is apllicable when he speaks "from the seat of Peter". A pope can have opinions and make statements that are not bound by infallibility, and as we have seen there have been a few evil popes in the past. Christ also spoke about wolves in his Church, just like one of his apostles betraying him. The point is that the Church itself will never fail or go astray.
And yes the Bible was referring to the only Church that goes back to Peter, the Catholic Church. If he wasn't talking about an actual institution that is visible and concrete than what would be the point of creating a church at all? We cannot pay any attention to any protestant denominations because they have nothing to do with the church founded by Christ. Simple logic shows that none of them could exist anyways without the Bible, and the bible would not exist today had the Catholic church not decided the Canon and then, of course, kept it safe for 1500 years before Martin Luther decided to betray Christ.

Cancerwarrior
So then why is Francis the first Pope to make such statements? His predecessors certainly never did.

Well, he's a different guy, with a different perspective. He's a Jesuit, he's from Latin America, he lived a pretty humble and meek life when he was a priest and bishop, so it's not unreasonable for him to continue that.

Pragmatically, the church has, rightly, received a lot of criticism for some of its excesses and the scandals of the past century, and he clearly sees that addressing those are of the utmost priority, and that's just what he's doing.

Again, nothing that he's doing goes against the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, the official teaching of the church -- while his approach might be different, the core of the teaching is not.

reply to post by ccross

We need to understand that the Church itself will never fall even though people inside the Church will, and do fall all the time.

And there are many prophecies that agree with you.

The Venerable Anna Katerina Emmerick was a German mystic who was favored with extensive revelations. Six weeks after her death, upon a rumor that her body had been stolen, she was disinterred and found to be incorrupt. She came to international fame when Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of Christ” was acknowledged to have been based upon her revelations.

“When I saw the Church of St. Peter in ruins, and the manner in which so many of the clergy were themselves busy at this work of destruction – none of them wishing to do it openly in front of others – I was in such distress that I cried out to Jesus with all my might, imploring His mercy. Then, I saw before me the Heavenly Spouse… He said, among other things, that this translation of the Church from one place to another meant that She would seem to be in complete decline. But She would rise again; even if there remained but one Catholic, the Church would conquer again because She does not rest on human counsels and intelligence. It was also shown to me that there were almost no Christians left in the old acceptation of the word.”4

Melanie Calvat was one of the two seers of La Salette. The following extract is taken from the book “The Secret of Melanie and the Actual Crisis” by Abbot Combe, 1906:

“The Church will be eclipsed. At first, we will not know which is the true pope. Then secondly, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass will cease to be offered in churches and houses; it will be such that, for a time, there will not be public services any more. But I see that the Holy Sacrifice has not really ceased: it will be offered in barns, in alcoves, in caves, and underground.”

So it seems that there will always be "true" catholics, even during this apostasy that is going to take place.

The point is that the Church itself will never fail or go astray.

You sound very certain, remember, just because it has not happened does not mean that it cannot happen.

Cancerwarrior
Now we have a Pope who is making revolutionary statements compared to previous popes.

”If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”

On the subject of atheism, Francis says non-believers should

”obey their conscience” and that “God’s mercy has no limits.”

He’s even suggesting that he’s open to a debate on married priests.

Pope Francis has made no 'revolutionary statements'.
Everything he has said is theologically in line with Catholic Teaching.

"Who am I to judge' .... that is correct theologically.
We are never to judge the person but instead discern the sin.
Judging the persons soul is God's job. Not ours.

Atheists should turn to God and God will have mercy on them.
Again ... theologically correct.
He didnt' say atheists would get into heaven.
He said that, when they died, if they accepted God and trusted His mercy, then they'd go to heaven.

And as far as married priests go ... this is a discipline and not a doctrine.
Disciplines can change as the church decides it needs to change them.
Doctrines can't change.
So again ... Pope Francis is not outside church teaching.

reply to post by adjensen


I am not suggesting that he is breaking away from Catholic rules and dogma entirely, but as you say he is certainly taking a much different stance on things compared to former popes. That is what is really interesting.

What I am wondering, is if there is a connection to all of these prophecies that talk of a major reformation with the RCC in the final days of the church, and if this Apostasy that is supposed to take place will involve Pope Francis, or some future pope.

Cancerwarrior
So then why is Francis the first Pope to make such statements? His predecessors certainly never did.

again.... what Pope Francis has said is nothing new to the Church. It's all in line with Church teaching. He isn't the first to say these things because they have been the teaching of the church all along. As for why PJPII or Pope Benedict (or whoever) didn't spotlight these teachings .... that's irrelevant. They spotlighted some and not others. So what? The Holy Spirit is supposed to guide the popes and apparently the Holy Spirit has guided THIS pope to highlight these specific teachings.

littled16
reply to post by Cancerwarrior

 

I think that whether or not the new Pope could be considered a candidate for Antichrist would depend on whether or not you interpret the Bible and the various prophecies literally or figuratively. If say you were to interpret the RCC as being corrupt ( Spirit of Antichrist) and the new Pope as being a dragonslayer (throwing the closets open and letting the skeletons and cobwebs fly out) you might would interpret it as he being an agent of the Christ. It just really depends on your perspective.

I don't understand the highlighted (red) sentence. Please explain.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Where have I stated that the current Pope is doing anything that is against catholic rules?

You can't deny his actions, words and manner he approaches things are radically different than any pope I know of.

All I want to know is if there is a connection between the many prophecies that predict the Apostasy in the RCC and the Pope that we have now. I'm not attacking anyones faith or anything, merely discussing something that I have been thinking of ever since the election of this new Pope.

YodHeVauHe

littled16
reply to post by Cancerwarrior

 

I think that whether or not the new Pope could be considered a candidate for Antichrist would depend on whether or not you interpret the Bible and the various prophecies literally or figuratively. If say you were to interpret the RCC as being corrupt ( Spirit of Antichrist) and the new Pope as being a dragonslayer (throwing the closets open and letting the skeletons and cobwebs fly out) you might would interpret it as he being an agent of the Christ. It just really depends on your perspective.

I don't understand the highlighted (red) sentence. Please explain.

What that means that if your point of perception is that the RCC in general are the bad guys that if Pope Francis is shining a light on some of the fallabilities of the church then one might consider him to be a good guy.

Cancerwarrior
What I am wondering, is if there is a connection to all of these prophecies that talk of a major reformation with the RCC in the final days of the church, and if this Apostasy that is supposed to take place will involve Pope Francis, or some future pope.

Personally, I don't think that it will be Francis. While there are some very hard line Catholics who are angry about some of the things that he's done and said, the majority of people (and not just Catholics,) view him very favourably. Since nothing that he's doing is "wrong", by established church teaching, he's not "selling out the church for popularity" -- while I suspect that his actions will bring some lapsed Catholics back to the church, as well as appeal to disenchanted Protestants (which I was, prior to converting in 2012,) it's not at the cost of weakening the church.

The real danger to Francis, I'm afraid, is that he'll be murdered by someone within the Vatican, who is concerned about how he addresses the scandals, particularly those at the Vatican Bank. Time will tell whether he suffers the same fate as the last reformer, John Paul I, I sure hope not.

The St. Malachy prophesies have been sufficiently debunked, in my opinion, that I put little faith in the Pope (either Francis or a later one) being "Peter the Roman", who will destroy the church.