China for World super power in next 40 years

We are still the strongest nation and will continue to be. Our GDP is still a lot bigger than China's. And to those who doubt that America will quit in a war with China, do not forget that americans have fought and died in Mexico,Iraq,Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia,Afghanistan,the beaches of Normandy,Germany, and the Phillipines. We just won't be pushed over by some 3rd world nation(yes china is still 3rd world, it cant provide basic services for most of its people)

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Digitally beamed i'm sure..

I dont know about this but indias commerical space project ISR(?) has a resolution of 1m. Im not sure if its a digitally beamed or not but i know the russians do not posses a 1m capability with digitally beamed pictures. They still use old capsules that fly back to earth. So are scanning various google sites and BR i cannot find out if its a capasule system or digitally beamed

Here is a article i was reading when i wrote that

The Asian space odyssey

Originally posted by benedict arnold
We are still the strongest nation and will continue to be. Our GDP is still a lot bigger than China's. And to those who doubt that America will quit in a war with China, do not forget that americans have fought and died in Mexico,Iraq,Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia,Afghanistan,the beaches of Normandy,Germany, and the Phillipines. We just won't be pushed over by some 3rd world nation(yes china is still 3rd world, it cant provide basic services for most of its people)

Hah! 7/9 of those places caused mass protest throughout the United States and had barely any support.

Mexico, Iraq, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Phillipines... To even mention those nations proving the U.S. won't be pushed around is an embarassment.

Who said anything about China pushing over the U.S.? Can you not comprehend thinking about living side by side peacefully?

Why don't you mention the war in north korea?
It was the only war between U.S and China so far.

If one day China wants his 1.3 billion people(=north american+ europe + australia) having the same living standard of western countries, u know what will happen first?

Originally posted by benedict arnold
We are still the strongest nation and will continue to be. Our GDP is still a lot bigger than China's. And to those who doubt that America will quit in a war with China, do not forget that americans have fought and died in Mexico,Iraq,Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia,Afghanistan,the beaches of Normandy,Germany, and the Phillipines. We just won't be pushed over by some 3rd world nation(yes china is still 3rd world, it cant provide basic services for most of its people)

Originally posted by chinawhite

I dont know about this but indias commerical space project ISR(?) has a resolution of 1m. Im not sure if its a digitally beamed or not but i know the russians do not posses a 1m capability with digitally beamed pictures. They still use old capsules that fly back to earth. So are scanning various google sites and BR i cannot find out if its a capasule system or digitally beamed

Here is a article i was reading when i wrote that

The Asian space odyssey

I think you read the bit about China using that method way back in 74 when is started off.

I think this is the latest comm sat launched by India.
www.spaceimaging.com...

Do a google for the sat name "Resourcesat-1" and "beaming back images"
You'll find some info..

According to american reports the ZY-2 is comparable to the US KH-11. So it can bring back 1-5m resolution pictures instantly, or from a article i read "as fast as you can take them". But denied by china which state 60-120m conflicting sources.

But i would dobt india would still use capsule reutrn devices but then i think, the russians cant do that how can the indians . Im being serious here. india has such a young space industy and already beating the russians

Ikonos is the best commerical satillite company and uses digital images so what about other military spy satillites?

Heres Ikonos


[edit on 21-1-2006 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by chinawhite

But i would dobt india would still use capsule reutrn devices but then i think, the russians cant do that how can the indians

. Im being serious here. india has such a young space industy and already beating the russians

I didn't quite understand you there..


The IRS P6 (resource sat-1) has a spatial res of 6m and a swath width of 1400km.
The spatial width i suppose was sacrificed for the swath width, esp since its a comm sat and supp to be useful in surveying large areas for natural disaster inflicted damages.

Doing a google on the ZY-1, i got spatial width of 20-80m, and a swath width of 113km.

Its successor Zy-2 has a spatial res of 5-6 meters and a swath of 113km.
Launch date was nov 2004 as compared to IRS P6 launch date of oct 3 2003.So prima facie it seems like India still abt a year ahead with better swath. But then uses are different.

Originally posted by benedict arnold
We are still the strongest nation and will continue to be. Our GDP is still a lot bigger than China's. And to those who doubt that America will quit in a war with China, do not forget that americans have fought and died in Mexico,Iraq,Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia,Afghanistan,the beaches of Normandy,Germany, and the Phillipines. We just won't be pushed over by some 3rd world nation(yes china is still 3rd world, it cant provide basic services for most of its people)

chinese government keeps on enforcing its third world nation position again and again and again...the strange thing is u.s government and some other western government keeps inviting china to some fisrt world nations meeting and it's not rare such paradox speaking is popular coz basicly u know too few about china.
china can't aford basic service to most of its people? lmao.
over

ask and make thing clear before you post guys, it's not that hard. there are too many chinese out there in every countries in the world. as a chinese been in uk for 5 years i just come to point some wrong opinions here and don't want to argue with tou, if you say i am been brain washed i won't argue with you cause so far as i believe no government can brain wash such huge amunt of people and if you insist i can only say soy, as a matter of fact chinese government's skill to use media is far more worse than west.(you can also choose to believe)
damn, still the same advise, read more about china, history, politics and then post your comments


I just can't help writing those down...damn it

[edit on 21-1-2006 by taobo33]

Originally posted by Daedalus3
The IRS P6 (resource sat-1) has a spatial res of 6m and a swath width of 1400km.
Doing a google on the ZY-1, i got spatial width of 20-80m, and a swath width of 113km.

The figures i got for IRS P6 are 23.5m for a 140km swath
And the ZY-1 which has a 20m at 113km.

So I think these satillies are about even when it comes to resoultion while indias one being the more advanced satillite, while the ZY-1 being launched eariler in 1999 compared to 2003. China has had digtial transmision photos of 50m since 1987, So being 20m in resolution is not what i would say hard to achieve

Source
bharat-rakshak
Sinodefence

I would suspect the ZY-2 would at least have a improvment on the ZY-1 seeing as how china launched two in two years. (2000 and 2002).

EDIT: You were right about a 2004 launch. China launched its thrid satillie of the ZY-2 in 2004. So maybe you might be getting confused with another event?

[edit on 21-1-2006 by chinawhite]

Was that the same Dalai Lama thats had to go into exile when his people revolted against China and had thousands and thousands of his people killed.

The same Dalai Lama that claims (and China denies) that, ''overall, 6,000 monasteries have been closed or destroyed and 1.2 million Tibetans have been killed by the Chinese since 1950.''

There is a difference between invading other countries than to stopping an uprising. I am not saying that the Chinese government made the right decision in the Tibet incidence but, wouldn't America do the same when all the southern states decided to form their own country? Oh wait! I HAD actually happened before!

can you please tell me where you got your quote from? i want to check some facts. i think it most unlikely that the tibetan people tried to rise up against the chinese, (the invaders). don't forget who writes history(the winners).

Originally posted by benedict arnold
We just won't be pushed over by some 3rd world nation(yes china is still 3rd world, it cant provide basic services for most of its people)

That statement just proves how ignorant you are about China... It is completely WRONG. "it(China) can provide basic services for most of its people". Where the hell do you get your info about China? Movies? NEARLY EVERYONE in China ARE provided with basic services (food, shelter, healthcare, education).

Dude, looks like we should show some China's photos to some(only some, not all) ignorance western people.(maybe some indian people too)

Though China is still 3rd world it has been booming with amazing GDP growth rate for 25 years and will keep booming for the next few decades.

Sooner or later we will be one of best and most powerful countries in the world.

Originally posted by taobo33

Originally posted by benedict arnold
We are still the strongest nation and will continue to be. Our GDP is still a lot bigger than China's. And to those who doubt that America will quit in a war with China, do not forget that americans have fought and died in Mexico,Iraq,Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia,Afghanistan,the beaches of Normandy,Germany, and the Phillipines. We just won't be pushed over by some 3rd world nation(yes china is still 3rd world, it cant provide basic services for most of its people)

chinese government keeps on enforcing its third world nation position again and again and again...the strange thing is u.s government and some other western government keeps inviting china to some fisrt world nations meeting and it's not rare such paradox speaking is popular coz basicly u know too few about china.
china can't aford basic service to most of its people? lmao.
over

[edit on 22-1-2006 by google_abcd]

Originally posted by chinawhite

The figures i got for IRS P6 are 23.5m for a 140km swath
And the ZY-1 which has a 20m at 113km.

So I think these satillies are about even when it comes to resoultion while indias one being the more advanced satillite, while the ZY-1 being launched eariler in 1999 compared to 2003. China has had digtial transmision photos of 50m since 1987, So being 20m in resolution is not what i would say hard to achieve

Source
bharat-rakshak
Sinodefence

I would suspect the ZY-2 would at least have a improvment on the ZY-1 seeing as how china launched two in two years. (2000 and 2002).

EDIT: You were right about a 2004 launch. China launched its thrid satillie of the ZY-2 in 2004. So maybe you might be getting confused with another event?

[edit on 21-1-2006 by chinawhite]

YEs.. indeed there was some confusion on my part as the I thought the ZY-2 was just on satellite and not a SERIES of satellites;
(now three of them: ZY-2 1/2/3 or A/B/C), the latest in November 2004.
Unfortuantely we have info pertaining to the ZY-2 and not indivisual satelllites, and so we have to assume that the ZY-2 series will give the chinese a wider region of simultaneous watch, but since no separate resolution has been published, the res are assumed to be same.
Here's what each satellite has:

The latest ZY-2 spatial resolution is thought to be "lower than 20m"(couldn't get a more exact figure than that ! )

The thing is each sat has more than one sensor, each one haveing different spatial resolutions(IGFOV) and swath widths. That's where both of us were getting confused!!!

For Zy-1:
1)# CCD Camera: Five bands (0.51-0.73 µm, 0.45-0.52 µm, 0.52-0.59 µm, 0.63-0.69, µm, and 0.77-0.89.µm); 20-m resolution; 113 km swath;

2)# IR Multi-Spectral Scanner: Four bands (0.50-1.10 µm, 1.55-1.75 µm, 2.08-2.35 µm,and 10.40-12.50 µm); 80-160-m resolution; 120-km swath;

3)# Wide-Field Imager: Two bands (0.63-0.69 µm and 0.76-0.90 µm); 260-m resolution; 900-km swath.

For IRS P-6:

Check out the table at the end of the bharat rakshak page you gave a link to.

1)The LISS-4 sensor has the highest spatial resolution (IGFOV) of 5.8 meters at NADIR(the region right below the satellite). It swath of 24 km in MX(multipsectral)mode and 70.3km in PAN mode.

2) The LISS-3 sensor has a sp res of 23.5m(NADIR) and 141km swath.

3)The AiWFS has sp res and swath of 56m and 740km respectively
(Not 1400km as I previously mentioned )

So the best res is 5.8m (comm) and swath is 740km (comm) for the IRS P6, as compared to "less than 20m" res and swath (unknown) of hte ZY-2 series.
Anyways the swath is not the point of debate here.

You can confirm these IRS -P6 commercial resolutions at :

SpaceImaging.com

Now here's the surprise:

On May 5th 2005, ISRO launched PSLV-6 with a payload consisting of 2 new satellites. The one called CARTOSAT is of interest to us.

1)CARTOSAT-1 (IRS-P5) don't ask why the nos. reduce instaed of increasing !

It has a commercial spatial res of 2.5m(claimed to be < 2.5m) and a swath of 30km.
Google for CARTOSAT-1.
No pictures have been released online, space imaging was going to get exclusive rights for marketing cartosat pics outside india, don't know what happened to that..
source

But the satellite's up and running.
In comparision, IKONOS has a spatial res of 1-4 metres.

And finally ISRO plans the launch CARTOSAT-2 in 2006, which is supposed to have a spatial res of 1m.
So correct me if I'm wrong but IMO India's still ahead for now and maybe all of 2006 with CARTOSAT-2.

The funny thing is I don't quite think India and China are competing for a "space race" in any way. We have different goals, and infact I have seen signs of co-operation in this field.

India recently launched two satellites into the space using a polar satellite launch vehicle (PSLV) from the Satish Dhawan Space Centre in Sriharikota. One of these two was a remote sensing satellite named Cartosat-1. Now the ISRO (Indian Space Research Organization) has reported that as many as four countries have shown interest in using its applications. The four countries are China, Japan, Germany, and the UAE.

source

Although the west sees this (or maybe hopes to see this) as space race
source

I now feel that India views its relationship with the US as one totally independant of China. It does not view this relationship as a "counterbalance" to "suppress" chinese emrgence.

EDIT: Awesome pics google_abcd! I have a Saved Sim City3000 game which looks like that!
So you've buried that hatchet you dug up aye??

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Daedalus3]

hmmm.. I spoke too soon. Din't read you're post. Seems like you ain't buried the hatchet yet.
No problem, I'm game as long as you are..
You and I both know that that bloated growth rate is a very risky, you got to have a consumption driven economy to sustain cities like that(Shanghai).
Anyways, my point for THIS topic was that putting a man in space doesn't give China any military 'edge' over India. All the technology (materials/knowhow) etc. etc. was not invented indigenously. The Similarities of soyuz and Shenzhou are evident.China just took the initiative, put the money and resources aside and went all out.
I personally feel that an indigenous 'manned program' will not be a wise cost effective decision in today's times where the future is going towards joint exploartion of space. You'll just end up falling behind.
The sad part is that the US and the west is not willing to accept China into this joint program; it fears leak of tech will be put to military use.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
So the best res is 5.8m (comm) and swath is 740km (comm) for the IRS P6, as compared to "less than 20m" res and swath (unknown) of hte ZY-2 series.
Anyways the swath is not the point of debate here.

Here is the closet match up for the ZY-1 and ISR-6
IRS P6 are 23.5m for a 140km swath
ZY-1 which has a 20m at 113km.

The swathe of of both are roughly comparble and the resoultion is roughly comparable

Here is what is confirmed.

The ZY-1 has a resolution of 20m and swath of 113km. But if the ZY-1 makes a smaller swath like the ISR-6 than it can also get small resolutions like the ISR. agreed?. Because 20m was achieved at 113km while the ISR-6 did it at with 24 and 70km swathe. 20m resolution wouldn't be the best resolution the ZY-1 has

The ZY-2 is a improved version with new senors so it will be under 20m resolution at 113km swathe

There are three version of the ZY-2. A, B and C. A got launched in 2000 B got launched in 2002 and C got launched in 2004.

But im going to say its 1m resolution or under. This is not speculation its a educated assumtion. So would you doubt that in 4 years and three version china went didn't go down from under 20m to 1m or less metres?.


Daedalus3, Im going to say this openly but china has the lead in remote sensing while india is not far behind. agreed?

Anyway, who needs sub-1m resolutions for agricultural surveying

The thing is each sat has more than one sensor, each one haveing different spatial resolutions(IGFOV) and swath widths. That's where both of us were getting confused!!!

I already know the different resolution type. stragiht up digtial transmissions then infra-red images(there the ones with the funky colours). Than wide view,. In order of resoultion

[edit on 22-1-2006 by chinawhite]

It's not myth and Tibet is not a country. It's part of China. Even the dalai lama acknowledges that.

oh yes it is, or was untill china invaded unless you think the tibetan army was a myth too, research a bit, oh and about china being defensive..'

they invaded:

russia(almost causing fullscale war)
tibet
india

within the last 56 years..

[edit on 22-1-2006 by namehere]

Originally posted by google_abcd
Dude, looks like we should show some China's photos to some(only some, not all) ignorance western people.(maybe some indian people too)

Though China is still 3rd world it has been booming with amazing GDP growth rate for 25 years and will keep booming for the next few decades.

Sooner or later we will be one of best and most powerful countries in the world.

China's increasing GDP comes from the low wages people are paid there and that they have no unions. I wonder when Chinese people start to want the same rights western workers want, what will hapeen to the Chinese economy ? Things won't be cheap to prodiuce anymore, hence why many companies are moving there.

Namewhere?

China invaded russia? As i remember it they attacked us

Tibet was not a country it was a chinese protectrate agreed by the Anglo-Chinese Convention of 1906,and also of the Anglo-Russian Convention of 1907. which made a treaty that acknowledged chinese soverity over tibet. Yes in 1911 tibet did declare independence but unlucky for them no one acknowledged their independence nor did china give up their right to tibet. Im not sure about this tibetian army but they sure did not put up resistance. And dont forget we have a signed treaty

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