Who Are The Others That God Refers To Concerning Our Creation? Just Curious......

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by MysterX
God was possessed by two demons, or suffers from multiple personality disorder obviously.

You have different aspects to your personality, right?
A loving part. A justice seeking part. A husband or wife part.
God (or a buddah) can manifest an aspect of Himself on earth for a certain reason or mission.

I'm just telling ya' what the theology says ....

Tyler Durden is God?


that's basically the deal.. lol

Originally posted by davethebear
You understand that I am not a reader of the bible,

I don't believe that the creation story is true.
I'm just responding to the question asked...

So when you read the bible from the start and there is no mention of any other being, don't you think that is sounds a bit strange when he states US and OUR?

Actually I don't think there is anything strange at all. Like I said, there has to be a first time for mentioning things and it's not that far into the story for the 'US' and 'OUR' to show up. I think it's fine.

But what does it matter anyways? It's not like it's a history book ... it's just a creation myth.

I don't know if this has been said or not already but here goes. Supposedly the way it is written in Hebrew originally is that it refers to "us" as coming from one, what that means is you are familiar with the Trinity no? Father, Son, Holy Spirit? They are all the same person yet in different forms, so the "us" is actually the Trinity, but the way it translates from Hebrew to English (and other languages) is that it is as though there is multiple Gods. It is like saying "Me, myself, and I" and seeing that as them or us, when really it is the same one person. Hope that answers your question.

Originally posted by davethebear

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by davethebear
According to Genesis 1:26-27, it states, "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,’ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him….

The sentence answers itself.
GOd created Man in His OWN image.
The 'our' has to be God ... God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
One God ... Three Divine Persons (aspects) .... eternal .. without beginning or end.

I may be wrong here, not being a scholar of the bible, but considering that this is verse 26 of the first chapter of the bible, does it actually mention God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in the previous 25 verses? I haven't got a bible, so I can't look it up....

Just curious.....

It's apparent from your posts that you don't even have basic knowledge of the Bible and obviously haven't read much of it. Why do people like this try to author a topic? It would be like me starting a topic on the Quran.

I actually came and started this thread because I thought that the 2 questions I asked would be quite easily answered by the ones who are supposedly in the know...

Although answers have been quite interesting, I suppose I have found myself getting a little lost with some of the answers/ideas received..

This book called the bible is quite complicated isn't it? Seems as though you have to make a great deal of effort to make any sense of it all when the supposed being called God wants us all to believe in him, but he doesn't make it very easy, does he?

So obviously the thread has taken on a few different tangents over the last couple of pages. I am reading it all with interest, but sometimes it seems that complicated to take in, when in fact all I really wanted was I suppose an easy understanding of something that millions of people across the world, including God, want me to be a part of...

Still confused, but please continue

Cheers......

reply to post by HanzHenry

It's not multiple personality disorder. The theology is interesting .. and it can make sense if it's looked at from a Buddhist perspective. If you read up on Buddhas manifesting .... it'll fit in. I"m not saying I buy into it .. but I can understand it ... and it's not multiple personality disorder.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I'm just telling ya' what the theology says ....

Appreciate that FlyersFan.

What i appeciate much more though, is you not trying to shove it down my throat as fact.

Ta.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by greavsie1971
[ I believe he was speaking to the Elohim and the angels, who were created before us.

But the Angels aren't part of the creation process. So God wouldn't say 'let US make man ... '
If he were speaking of angels. They can't create. Only God can.

Good point. I am just thinking of possibilities. I dont deny the trinity.

Anyway, have to go. Russia have just said something pretty big. Need to find out what.

Great thread.

S+F

Originally posted by jjkenobi

Originally posted by davethebear

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by davethebear
According to Genesis 1:26-27, it states, "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,’ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him….

The sentence answers itself.
GOd created Man in His OWN image.
The 'our' has to be God ... God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
One God ... Three Divine Persons (aspects) .... eternal .. without beginning or end.

I may be wrong here, not being a scholar of the bible, but considering that this is verse 26 of the first chapter of the bible, does it actually mention God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in the previous 25 verses? I haven't got a bible, so I can't look it up....

Just curious.....

It's apparent from your posts that you don't even have basic knowledge of the Bible and obviously haven't read much of it. Why do people like this try to author a topic? It would be like me starting a topic on the Quran.

Sorry, but I think that's a little bit rude?

Am I not allowed to open a thread to ask a question in order to gain some kind of knowledge? In fact I thought that they were 2 basic questions that should be easy enough to answer in order to get a none reader of the bible to get an understanding of Christianity and why people believe and why they are drawn to such a belief...

If you don't ask questions, then how are you supposed to learn anything?

Originally posted by MysterX
What i appeciate much more though, is you not trying to shove it down my throat as fact.

:that would be impossible. I can't prove any creation myth is fact.

reply to post by davethebear

to get an understanding of Christianity and why people believe and why they are drawn to such a belief... If you don't ask questions, then how are you supposed to learn anything?

Mostly, people don't have any choice in their 'belief'...at least for the formative years of their lives.

A baby a few weeks old, get's it's head shoved in a font by some bloke claiming to have all the answers and it's a member of the club...if that baby grows and starts asking probing questions, it's then when it is liable to meet hostility and being expelled from the club.

reply to post by davethebear


Yes what you said about the Bible being difficult to read is true. It is full of much ambiguity and open interpretation, but what you will find though is that the important parts of the Bible are pretty straightforward. In fact the majority of the Bible can be summarized as that we are all sinners and need God's forgiveness. The straightforward answers come from realizing that Jesus paid that price and we are forgiven through Him if we accept Him. No rituals, no works, no complex daily routine etc. This is where you will then find it becomes complicated and ambiguous because people get their fingers in it, different denominations and even new religions are formed, because we cannot accept something so simple as Jesus' free gift of salvation.

So a good question to ask you is this; If the Bible in all of its ambiguity had one simple straightforward truth in it, so simple to the point that it may be too simple to understand, could you understand it? That simple truth is Jesus sacrifice. Now the rest of the Bible generally falls into place and makes sense when you focus on the simple truth, focus on Jesus teachings etc, because then you will understand the heart of Christ and it all makes sense.

Personally I feel that is why the Bible is so difficult for some, is they read the stuff that will not make sense, without first learning the simple truth. The Bible even says it will not make sense to those who do not know God. Its like going to math class without the equal sign, nothing will make sense. In fact I do believe there are open ended interpretations about the Bible, things what do not affect doctrine. Where there is no argument (or should be no argument) is in the true doctrine of Jesus sacrifice and our need for Him. I believe homosexuality is not a sin, I believe the Nephilim were real and that God did not kill innocent humans but half breeds. I believe that humans walked with dinosaurs at some point. The Bible has no true black and white answer about this, but only grey areas. Does it affect doctrine to believe one or the other? Not really. So that's how it should be viewed, we should all agree on the doctrine of Christ, and follow His teachings, the rest can be personal choice. We just have to understand that it should not contradict or oppose the doctrine Jesus laid out for us.

So there you have proof everyone, a Christian admitting the Bible is open to interpretation in some parts. Edit: also there is no shame in asking questions, I will try and answer them for you, I appreciate you asking these questions and being respectful about it. Don't let the other folks here who are offended by you asking questions get you down.

Originally posted by HanzHenry

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by davethebear
According to Genesis 1:26-27, it states, "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,’ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him….

The sentence answers itself.
GOd created Man in His OWN image.
The 'our' has to be God ... God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
One God ... Three Divine Persons (aspects) .... eternal .. without beginning or end.

Yikes.. you did NOT help..

Schizo-multiple personality disorder.. on top of

jealous, requires constant worship and reminded how awesome he/they/it is or else.. Burn in Hell forever and ever..

Hes not really schizoid just very extreme at both ends. As far as the other, it seems to be one of the key ways he can measure the level of the god sprit in man. Its an emanation that comes from folks that have come to a point where they start noticing in creation how powerful and outside the human understanding god really is. An example would be David's comment "I am fearfully and wonderfully made". Takes a certain amount of spiritual capacity to say that in reference to a creator. Another by Isaiah would be "woe is me". This demonstrates an understanding of the real distance between man and god. When god gets response like this from men he knows that he is talking to someone that understands whats going on here.

Something I've noticed....

Those that take the Bible literally as the absolute infallible word of God, sure are fond of the phrase "oh that's a metaphor"

oh yeah? who says....?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by davethebear

 

The book of Genesis is the "Reader's Digest Condensed" version of the Hebrew creation story. The book of Jubilees, which was honored throughout Jewish tradition, is conveniently left out of the Bible, leaving holes in the story, and leaving outsiders to fill in the blanks with their own made up facts.


The Jubilee's version of the creation story tells a fuller story and answers the questions that Genesis leaves unanswered. This version doesn't describe "GOD" as a trinity or in the plural, but states that on the first day he made all of us, in a spiritual sense, and we were with him, and witnesses to the creation.

edit on 6-9-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

Jubilees seems to be a condensed version as well. If you ask me.

Originally posted by honested3
reply to post by davethebear

 

Yes what you said about the Bible being difficult to read is true. It is full of much ambiguity and open interpretation, but what you will find though is that the important parts of the Bible are pretty straightforward. In fact the majority of the Bible can be summarized as that we are all sinners and need God's forgiveness. The straightforward answers come from realizing that Jesus paid that price and we are forgiven through Him if we accept Him. No rituals, no works, no complex daily routine etc. This is where you will then find it becomes complicated and ambiguous because people get their fingers in it, different denominations and even new religions are formed, because we cannot accept something so simple as Jesus' free gift of salvation.

So a good question to ask you is this; If the Bible in all of its ambiguity had one simple straightforward truth in it, so simple to the point that it may be too simple to understand, could you understand it? That simple truth is Jesus sacrifice. Now the rest of the Bible generally falls into place and makes sense when you focus on the simple truth, focus on Jesus teachings etc, because then you will understand the heart of Christ and it all makes sense.

Personally I feel that is why the Bible is so difficult for some, is they read the stuff that will not make sense, without first learning the simple truth. The Bible even says it will not make sense to those who do not know God. Its like going to math class without the equal sign, nothing will make sense. In fact I do believe there are open ended interpretations about the Bible, things what do not affect doctrine. Where there is no argument (or should be no argument) is in the true doctrine of Jesus sacrifice and our need for Him. I believe homosexuality is not a sin, I believe the Nephilim were real and that God did not kill innocent humans but half breeds. I believe that humans walked with dinosaurs at some point. The Bible has no true black and white answer about this, but only grey areas. Does it affect doctrine to believe one or the other? Not really. So that's how it should be viewed, we should all agree on the doctrine of Christ, and follow His teachings, the rest can be personal choice. We just have to understand that it should not contradict or oppose the doctrine Jesus laid out for us.

So there you have proof everyone, a Christian admitting the Bible is open to interpretation in some parts. Edit: also there is no shame in asking questions, I will try and answer them for you, I appreciate you asking these questions and being respectful about it. Don't let the other folks here who are offended by you asking questions get you down.

edit on 9/6/13 by honested3 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/6/13 by honested3 because: grammar and comments

Thank you for your kind reply...

It seems as though others who have a belief and are of the christian kind, don't want others to believe as if it is some kind of special club. If you haven't got a backstage pass, then you can't take part, because you are not deemed good enough to join in...

I am very saddened by this, due to the fact that I am just interested to find out answers about the teachings of the bible, similar as to what I am regarding various other subjects here on ATS...

But some of you christian people out there don't make it very easy on the ones who are searching for information and a few answers. Seems as though we are being chastised because of our lack of knowledge and ignorance with a subject that I believe you should encourage others to take an interest in...

Very disappointed....

Originally posted by MysterX

Aren't Angels supposed to be infertile? If i remember correctly, they are supposed to be sexless, having no genitalia...so spreading his seed about would be quite a difficult thing to do for a being with no testicles or penis.

I guess... Maybe...? I haven't been a practicing Christian since 9th grade and that was 14 years ago, 4 years after that I was agnostic. Of course if what you say is true it makes me wonder how a bunch of fallen angels could go around creating hybrids with the humans such that God gets pissed and wipes everyone out. Sounds like a good contradiction to ask a practicing Christian.

reply to post by Logarock

Jubilees seems to be a condensed version as well. If you ask me.

Certainly. However, Jubilees expands on the creation, the story of Noah, the story of Abraham and Isaac, as well as expanding on the judgement of Sodom and Gomorrah, shedding more light on the stories than Genesis does.

reply to post by davethebear


You know what the irony is? If Jesus were physically present today, He would be on your side. Just like 2 thousand years ago the religious leaders had their own "club" and they would keep many people away from God's teaching. Jesus despised them for this and revealed how evil the supposed "Godly" leaders actually were. It is difficult, very difficult for some to handle this truth, that both the greatest person by human standards, and the lowest person, can both equally have the same gift from Jesus, and He wont pick favorites. To understand that the person on the straight who may be worlds apart from you, and may oppose your views in every way, is actually equally loved and accepted by Jesus as you are.

Yes there is a club of Christians who don't everybody in, ignore those people and stay away from them, because Jesus sides with you, and its better to be in His club than a humans club. Also if were being honest (and I always am) I don't get along with most fellow Christians, because most of them lack any understanding of the heart of Jesus and in fact are more contrary to the Lord than for.

reply to post by greavsie1971

But that would be the easiest thing to prove as we would see the changes through the ages. We dont though.

No, but if you look at the history of how Christianity was created the conclusion could very easily be drawn that it was instituted it was to help save the Roman Empire. Not peoples souls. Constantine himself practiced Polytheism until the day he died. Why did he never really convert to the religion that he seemingly pushed on everyone else? Contrary to popular opinion the Roman Empire did not end with the sacking of Rome although many historians point to that event as the "end" of the Roman Empire.

It was a slow steady decline over a period of many decades. Up until the christian religion was introduced, the Romans kept their people in line with bread and circuses. It was S.O.P. for the day. The people were entertained and the emperor, statesmen and generals could pretty much do as they like. The same thing goes on today. Bread and circuses however, are very expensive. And the Romans were so broke trying to pay mercenaries to police their borders that maybe they thought it much better to institute a monotheistic religion that teaches its a noble thing to be in poverty (you'll get your reward when you're dead basically.) And to look to other worldly riches not earthly ones. I find this theory to be very plausible, especially when you see the history of the Christian church really has no problem breaking the commandments that is a pillar of the religion itself.

The new testament was put together by Herodotus long before the council of Nicea got together and decided on what would be in the bible. There were many different gospel books in that time, upwards of thirty. Herodotus viewpoint was that there are four winds, four corners of the earth, four seasons, so there should only be four gospels. Not the most logical way to think I.M.O. but his four gospels became the staple for the New Testament.

What is interesting however is if you read these banned gospels Jesus talks alot about things like reincarnation, and not needing a church or religion to worship God because you carry the kingdom of God inside you. There were many themes I believe that the church intentionally altered. The prominence of Mary Magdalene comes to mind as well. There is alot of evidence that she came from a wealthy background and was Jesus partner/girlfriend/mate, whatever you want to call it. Much better to make her out as a lowly prostitute if you want to keep things patriarchal in theme and keep Jesus and some kind of God test tube baby. Same with reincarnation. People are scared of Hell, and people are led by what they fear, not what they hope. Poloticians do it all the time, especially when it comes to election time. And its pretty obvious to me why the church NEEDED people to go to church. After all, who's going to put money in the collection plate "for God" if everyone is off finding the God within?

There are many words in Hebrew that have no translation in English. Or can have several translations. There are many words that mean the same thing, or different things. Its well known that an error in translation has caused people to believe that Moses parted the Red Sea with the help of God and led the Israelites across to safety, swallowing up the pursuing Egyptian army. I can't even type it without thinking of Charleton Heston raising his staff and bellowing like some kind of Gandalf. It does not say that though, it says that the Israelites crossed the REED SEA. Which is a marshy area in SE Egypt that the fleeing Israelites could walk across, but the pursuing Egyptian chariots got stuck in. The church has refused to change it however because they say to do so would likely "damage the faith". Actually, if you read the book of exodus like its a military campaign (which it really was since the Israelites were originally Egyptian hired mercenaries) and not a religious saga, you would realize that Moses was a brilliant military commander. After all, he was Egyptian royalty. That means he was a general as well. Pharoahs liked to keep their family in positions of power. He had an intimate understanding of the Egyptian army command structure and how to implement it among his own people to great effect.

And that is only one mistranslation that people are aware of. I'm sure there are many more and the vatican has the originals in their secret vault of archives. Otherwise, why would they feel the need to have a secret vault of archives? Why not open it up to the world? Maybe because there are other things in there that would "damage the faith" as well?