Who Are The Others That God Refers To Concerning Our Creation? Just Curious......

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by davethebear
does it actually mention God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in the previous 25 verses?

I don't think so ..... but so what?
There is always a first time to mention something ... and there it is.

God said in 'OUR OWN' image. That means there is more than one aspect to God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit were then revealed in scripture as history unfolded.

You understand that I am not a reader of the bible, so I suppose the trouble I had understanding is the fact that the bible does not mention any other being from the beginning of the bible. So when you read the bible from the start and there is no mention of any other being, don't you think that is sounds a bit strange when he states US and OUR? So in order to understand the first 25 verses of the bible, we have to read on and on and on because basically you have to look at the bible out of context, unlike other books where the story flows in a fashion that is easier to understand and follow?

reply to post by davethebear


The book of Genesis is the "Reader's Digest Condensed" version of the Hebrew creation story. The book of Jubilees, which was honored throughout Jewish tradition, is conveniently left out of the Bible, leaving holes in the story, and leaving outsiders to fill in the blanks with their own made up facts.

Jubilees 2:1
And the angel of the presence spake to Moses according to the word of the Lord, saying: Write the complete history of the creation, how in six days the Lord God finished all His works and all that He created, and kept Sabbath on the seventh day and hallowed it for all ages, and appointed it as a sign for all His works.

For on the first day He created the heavens which are above and the earth and the waters and all the spirits which serve before him -the angels of the presence, and the angels of sanctification, and the angels [of the spirit of fire and the angels] of the spirit of the winds, and the angels of the spirit of the clouds, and of darkness, and of snow and of hail and of hoar frost, and the angels of the voices and of the thunder and of the lightning, and the angels of the spirits of cold and of heat, and of winter and of spring and of autumn and of summer and of

all the spirits of his creatures which are in the heavens and on the earth,

(He created) the abysses and the darkness, eventide and night, and the light, dawn and day, which He hath prepared in the knowledge of his heart.

And thereupon we saw His works, and praised Him, and lauded before Him on account of all His works; for seven great works did He create on the first day.
www.pseudepigrapha.com...

The Jubilee's version of the creation story tells a fuller story and answers the questions that Genesis leaves unanswered. This version doesn't describe "GOD" as a trinity or in the plural, but states that on the first day he made all of us, in a spiritual sense, and we were with him, and witnesses to the creation.

reply to post by greavsie1971


Actually I'd be more willing to bet that since the Christian religion seems to view females so negatively, angels therefore couldn't be women.

That being said, assuming angels are real, it would be far easier for a male angel to go around spreading his seed and populating the earth with his affronts upon God than it is for a female angel to go around getting impregnated and giving birth. In the 9 months it would take the female angel to birth 1-3 children (assuming twins and triplets are possible to angels), a male angel could potentially impregnate 270 women (assuming they laid with 1 woman a day for 9 months).

reply to post by davethebear


Are you familiar with the royal we? Maybe that is why God refers to himself like that? I don't know, I find the story of creation rather dubious myself.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by davethebear

 

Now who does the US and OUR, in the sentence refer to?

Besides that the text we have was written by men and may or may not be accurate...

The us and our lends more to equality among the Gods (whomever they were). You know the ones that came here and planted a garden.

Personally I am tired of all this "hierarchy" crap. Its another holdover from the middle ages brought to you by the people that also thought the world was flat and at the center of it all.

A helicopter lands in a jungle clearing and the natives watch from nearby, seeing the people therein as some sort of Gods. They must be Gods. Look at what they can do. They can fly!

The bible does not say the earth was flat. There is a reference to the four corners of the earth. This is a metaphor for North, south, east and west.

JOB 26: 7 He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing;

Seems here we have a description here describing the earth in space.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by greavsie1971

 

Actually I'd be more willing to bet that since the Christian religion seems to view females so negatively, angels therefore couldn't be women.

That being said, assuming angels are real, it would be far easier for a male angel to go around spreading his seed and populating the earth with his affronts upon God than it is for a female angel to go around getting impregnated and giving birth. In the 9 months it would take the female angel to birth 1-3 children (assuming twins and triplets are possible to angels), a male angel could potentially impregnate 270 women (assuming they laid with 1 woman a day for 9 months).

Angels are not people, they appear as people.

Originally posted by davethebear

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by davethebear
does it actually mention God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in the previous 25 verses?

I don't think so ..... but so what?
There is always a first time to mention something ... and there it is.

God said in 'OUR OWN' image. That means there is more than one aspect to God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit were then revealed in scripture as history unfolded.

You understand that I am not a reader of the bible, so I suppose the trouble I had understanding is the fact that the bible does not mention any other being from the beginning of the bible. So when you read the bible from the start and there is no mention of any other being, don't you think that is sounds a bit strange when he states US and OUR? So in order to understand the first 25 verses of the bible, we have to read on and on and on because basically you have to look at the bible out of context, unlike other books where the story flows in a fashion that is easier to understand and follow?

Dont forget though, Satan fell with a third of angels. Then he tempted Adam and Eve. So he was created before they were.

reply to post by greavsie1971


Well going along that line of thinking, My second paragraph fits describing the efficiency of male angels inseminating women as opposed to female angels getting inseminated by males fits better.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by davethebear

 

I am not a religious person, but I have two questions regarding something I looked up today on the internet about man apparently being made in Gods own image…

It depends on who you ask.

New Agers will say its God and his wife (male/female, yin/yang type thing.)

Alien Jesus folks will say the "our" refers to aliens that created us.

Christians will say its the trinity (a concept that never makes any sense to me no matter how many christians try to "explain" it to me.)

If you ever read the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh, you would see the many parallels between it and Genesis.

My own personal opinion is that the bible has been translated, retranslated, copied, altered and presented in different ways to tell the story those in power want people to believe. There is wisdom in the bible, just as there are in many religous texts, However, I would'ny take the bibles account of creation too seriously.

A lot of people do say the Bible could have been corrupted. But that would be the easiest thing to prove as we would see the changes through the ages. We dont though. Which is why it has never been proven. All the texts are the same. Some small errors in translation but they have been found (very small percent) and accounted for. Nothing that changes any doctrine what so ever.

The dead sea scrolls were found in the 1940's, containing some of the oldest texts we have. Still the same as what we have today and before they were found. Nothing has been changed.

reply to post by davethebear


as somebody already stated, the plural refers to God as the Trinity. As for the other question, why does God create people with shortcomings - the Bible never says we are carbon copies of God, just 'created' in his 'image.' i interpret that to mean that God was the template for humanity, not that each individual being contains all aspects of God (what a burden that would be!). Nowhere in the Bible does God promise that things will be perfect! it is an assumption people make based on their own needs and shortcomings. In short, some people are born with disabilities, because they are human, and all humans are flawed in some way. Just my opinion....

reply to post by greavsie1971

I wish I could put a bet on how many post it takes before someone comes and totally ridicules others beliefs. If you dont like it why do you feel you have to slam others beliefs. What are your beliefs then? Its easy to slam others beliefs. Although most choose to show more respect and maturity.

I don't hear many of you religious types speaking up in defence of people who might believe something other than yourselves...how many times have you defended the beliefs of someone who says 'Jesus was part of an ET force'? or defended agnostics or athiests?

1, 10, 100 times?

I'd say it's certainly MUCH more likely you and those of your ilk would be the attackers of such people...frankly, i feel hypocrisy is fairly oozing from your reply.

Main stream religions, despite increasingly dwindling numbers of 'believers', still command millions of people worldwide...i'd say that qualifies them as big enough to be able to justify their own belief to those who question what they preach, if they choose to.

If you don't like people questioning your belief, i'd advise against posting those beliefs as written as facts on a public forum if YOU don't like dissent.

A belief isn't a fact, it's a point of view, an opinion, a choice.

I don't respect religion..religion is simply a collection of people who share similar beliefs...and since belief is NOT fact, it is basically organised gullibility...and i don't respect the gullible among us, and i certainly don't respect people who continually seek to increase the numbers of the gullible for their own selfish purposes.

Maturity?

Now, you're making me chuckle...thanks for that, it really tickled me.

Apparently, the Bible acknowledges female angels too.

Zechariah 5:9
Then I looked again and saw two women going forth with the wind in their wings (they had wings like those of a stork) and they lifted up the basket between the earth and the sky.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by greavsie1971

 

Well going along that line of thinking, My second paragraph fits describing the efficiency of male angels inseminating women as opposed to female angels getting inseminated by males fits better.

True, could also have been genetic manipulation. It also states that man will sin against the plants and animals near the end. Seems Monsanto may have made it into the Bible

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by greavsie1971

 

Actually I'd be more willing to bet that since the Christian religion seems to view females so negatively, angels therefore couldn't be women.

That being said, assuming angels are real, it would be far easier for a male angel to go around spreading his seed and populating the earth with his affronts upon God than it is for a female angel to go around getting impregnated and giving birth. In the 9 months it would take the female angel to birth 1-3 children (assuming twins and triplets are possible to angels), a male angel could potentially impregnate 270 women (assuming they laid with 1 woman a day for 9 months).

Aren't Angels supposed to be infertile? If i remember correctly, they are supposed to be sexless, having no genitalia...so spreading his seed about would be quite a difficult thing to do for a being with no testicles or penis.

reply to post by davethebear


- I don't buy what the Old Testament says.
- Angels are genderless .. pure spirits .. no need for sex organs.
- Angels can't procreate with humans. Two different species.
- Obviously the uneducated peasants either thought a myth was real, or, they got it all wrong.

Originally posted by MysterX

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by greavsie1971

 

Actually I'd be more willing to bet that since the Christian religion seems to view females so negatively, angels therefore couldn't be women.

That being said, assuming angels are real, it would be far easier for a male angel to go around spreading his seed and populating the earth with his affronts upon God than it is for a female angel to go around getting impregnated and giving birth. In the 9 months it would take the female angel to birth 1-3 children (assuming twins and triplets are possible to angels), a male angel could potentially impregnate 270 women (assuming they laid with 1 woman a day for 9 months).

Aren't Angels supposed to be infertile? If i remember correctly, they are supposed to be sexless, having no genitalia...so spreading his seed about would be quite a difficult thing to do for a being with no testicles or penis.

True, angels are spiritual beings. Not human in their natural form. We are talking about how they appear to us. They can take on any form. They can become human if they like. We are told to feed strangers and offer them drink and shelter as they could be angels.

Originally posted by MysterX
God was possessed by two demons, or suffers from multiple personality disorder obviously.

You have different aspects to your personality, right?
A loving part. A justice seeking part. A husband or wife part.
God (or a buddah) can manifest an aspect of Himself on earth for a certain reason or mission.

I'm just telling ya' what the theology says ....

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by davethebear
According to Genesis 1:26-27, it states, "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,’ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him….

The sentence answers itself.
GOd created Man in His OWN image.
The 'our' has to be God ... God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
One God ... Three Divine Persons (aspects) .... eternal .. without beginning or end.

Yikes.. you did NOT help..

Schizo-multiple personality disorder.. on top of

jealous, requires constant worship and reminded how awesome he/they/it is or else.. Burn in Hell forever and ever..

By failing a rigged test that involves not doing things that a body has internal desires to do? He puts desires in our body and tempts us, then punishes?..

By tempt I mean.. He made women so DANG HOT!! for a guy..

naked women don't have to look so....yummy?....T&C

reply to post by feanor411


The trinity is NOT a Hebrew concept. The early Hebrews were pantheonistic, believing in may "gods"

"When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of men,
he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance."
Deuteronomy 32:8 Dead Sea Scrolls and Greek Septuagint

There is NO trinity in the Old Testament. The very name of God is 4 letters, not 3, YHWH. The concept of the trinity comes from pagan religions such as the Egyptian triad of Isis, Serapis and Horus. www.heraldmag.org...

Originally posted by greavsie1971
[ I believe he was speaking to the Elohim and the angels, who were created before us.

But the Angels aren't part of the creation process. So God wouldn't say 'let US make man ... '
If he were speaking of angels. They can't create. Only God can.