The concept of Hell

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Text
If you believe in a place like hell, you are afraid of the idea of going there. The only reason people believe Christian doctrine is because of the consequences that a place like hell brings. That's a fact.

You could be right. I have no proof that you are mistaken and that i am right. Of course you do realize that your statement is also nothing but theology just as mine is also theology. You stated in the above quote that "That's a fact" when in all sensibility a fact is only a fact after it is shown and observed. Your rant can no more be observed or shown than any Christian's rant. Actually you have no idea of what I am afraid of.

TextThe apokalypsis=unveiling
of Jesus= which is not his name ..it is Yahoshua.It is the name above ALL names.A name is the nature/character of the thing named..it means .....God is salvation.

reply to post by Rex282


@ Rex282

Could you explain this above quote more clearly? What texts are you referencing and which multiple bible translators are you referencing?

Yes - Yehoshua HaNotzri is the Hebrew meaning Jesus in English and Yesous in Greek. I have no quarrel with that whatsoever.

The anointing oil was made originally by Moses and was used to anoint the furniture of the tabernacle as well as the Priests of the Aaronic Levitical Priesthood. Tradition tells us that as it was used it replenished itself.

The literature which is titled "The Revelation Of Saint John The Divine" (in the KJV) is not regarded as all metaphors such as you stated. There are no serious scholars who would sign on to that theory when all scriptures are taken into consideration. I agree that this message was given to all people but only those who accept this message will be blessed. At least, that is my theology and you must agree that all of this discussion is strictly theology. There are many facts within the realm of the scriptures that show there is a New Jerusalem and that there is a lake of fire. I invite you to read the last two chapters of Isaiah to confirm this. Prove your theology within theology with two or more witness, otherwise a verse taken from context means nothing.

I believe you are mistaken in your understanding of “The Revelation Of Saint John The Divine”. No, the message did not belong to John but John was the author of this literature and the author chooses his or her own format in delivering his or her literature. That is why the scholars titled this work as “The Revelation Of Saint John The Divine”. Yehoshua HaNotzri did not write the literature but John did and in that, John is given his just respect as the author. This tradition remains the very same in almost all literary work except “Ghost Writers” and ghost writers sell their work to other people who are then assumed to be the authors. I admit that this is not honest but that is the world of which we all live in.

As far as all people will be accepted by Yehoshua HaNotzri is not true according to most all biblical scholars. There are rules and regulations in the salvation of a spirit of a soul in almost all denominations of Christianity and when all literature is taken in context with proper interpretation then it is very clear that people such as Adolph Hitler will not commingle with the apostles in the world to come. There would not be any reason to believe this as a Christian.

I do not agree that hell is made up to control people because that is not biblical. Christ himself spoke of a lake of fire, the unquenchable fire, wailing and grinding of teeth, etc. This at least tells us that it does exist and it does include pain. God is happiness, truth, and the light. The opposite is despair, lies, and darkness. We can relate to these things since we experience them here on earth.
Now consider that Christ said nothing imperfect can enter Heaven. that means that heaven is pure happiness, truth, and light. No lies can enter Heaven and there is no pain. Hell is a complete separation from God, and therefore there is no happiness, truth, or light in hell. The exact opposite of heaven. God does not condemn people there, they choose with their own free will to go there. Kind of like a drug addict chooses to use drugs. He thinks he is making himself happy but is killing his soul(and his body) in the process. Those that believe they do not need God to be happy choose to turn away from Him.
The idea that everyone is saved is ridiculous because that means we do not have free will. The fact that some people use the idea of hell to convert people through fear is not a problem since even Paul told us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I prefer to evangelize reciting promises of paradise but this does not work with some people, and saving the soul is paramount and the ends justify the means.
Satan's greatest success is convincing people he doesn't exist. Everyone who thinks hell doesn't exist, or that the effects of eternal fire are not felt are playing right into satans plans. This is where protestantism fails. As Martin Luther said "sin boldly" because he believed if you have faith you're going to heaven regardless of sin. If you're guaranteed heaven, or if hell doesn't exist, than why not sin? Some sin is quite fun actually and the negative effects aren't always readily perceivable. The bottom line is that all sin leads away from God/towards hell. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell, but he also is not going to make us love him either.

reply to post by ccross


I heard some preacher on the radio saying that when Jesus was crying tears of blood in the garden of Gesmade (sp?) before he was crucified and paid for all of mankind's sins = he was crying for all of those who would reject his sacrifice - that would continue to sin and, basically, spit in God's face.

I think that if anyone tries to do the right thing - none of us is perfect - he/she will not go to hell -

I'm not God, and never could be - you are not either -

We cannot understand God - we are not, and never will be divine.

But, God loves us, he created us, and he has plans we cannot understand.

ccross,

re: " God does not condemn people there..."

Revelation 20:15 seems to say otherwise: "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."


re: "...they choose with their own free will to go there."

Are you saying that if someone believed - was convinced - that hell was a place where they would be horribly tortured non-stop 24/7 for eternity that they would actually CHOOSE to go there?

reply to post by freedom7


Im not a huge believer in either heaven or hell. But I do enjoy reading about the different concepts of all sorts of afterlifes.

The concept of hell that I personally like the most. Explains that hell isnt exactly a bad place. It is a place you will experience, where you are faced with your fears, morale dilemmas and so on, in order to rid these illusions of fear and good and evil from your spirit/soul. This is done in order for you to move on to whatever comes next with a clean slate.

The one I read had a whole lot of detail, I am sadly unable to find it. But it was a nice read, I enjoyed the neutrality of that hell quite alot.

Text
Are you saying that if someone believed - was convinced - that hell was a place where they would be horribly tortured non-stop 24/7 for eternity that they would actually CHOOSE to go there?

reply to post by rstrats


@ rstrats

The answer is no. No, a person who believes that there is a hell as described in scripture will not choose as you have described. Belief also entails action on that belief. There are rules and regulation associated with a belief. Without obedience to the rules and regulations of God there is no belief. You may say you believe and still be a child of Satan, Even evil spirits believe there is a God but without obedience to God that belief is worthless.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

How do you do the will of the Father? The first step is to realize that we are all sinners and that we all should study to show ourselves the will of God. The Holy Spirit will teach all of us you if we actually believe and not want to simply argue. Thais includes me as well as you.

Text
The concept of hell that I personally like the most. Explains that hell isnt exactly a bad place. It is a place you will experience, where you are faced with your fears, morale dilemmas and so on, in order to rid these illusions of fear and good and evil from your spirit/soul. This is done in order for you to move on to whatever comes next with a clean slate.

reply to post by needlenight


@needenight

What you are describing is purgatory. It's a nice theology in that you win win but it is not as easy as that according to Jesus. Jesus has never taught purgation of the spirit in most bibles. I think that purgatory is a concept of the church doctrine in certain groups but not the doctrine of Christ Jesus. I understand purgatory was adopted from the rabbinic teachings of certain Jews. According to the teachings of Jesus there will not be any moving on. Whatever that is.

reply to post by Seede


Ah thanks for pointing me to the source of my read.
As I said, not a big believer in any of it. My personal standpoint on the afterlife is that I simply do not know, and even if the creator (who/whatever it/he/she is) came down and explained it to me, my human mind would simply be unable to grasp the concept of it.
So I believe that something none of us will ever be able to understand ended up creating this universe in some way or the other. And thats it. That is all I believe. No more, no less. I simply do not know. But i BELIEVE something did create this universe, or created the big bang which lead the universe, or created whatever lead to the big bang being created and so on and so forth. Somewhere down the line we would find something of some kind of intelligence. (once again that is something I BELIEVE, I do not KNOW)

But heaven and hell? Nah, I think whatever it is, it is more neutral than such.

ccross
I do not agree that hell is made up to control people because that is not biblical. Christ himself spoke of a lake of fire, the unquenchable fire, wailing and grinding of teeth, etc. This at least tells us that it does exist and it does include pain. God is happiness, truth, and the light. The opposite is despair, lies, and darkness. We can relate to these things since we experience them here on earth.
Now consider that Christ said nothing imperfect can enter Heaven. that means that heaven is pure happiness, truth, and light. No lies can enter Heaven and there is no pain. Hell is a complete separation from God, and therefore there is no happiness, truth, or light in hell. The exact opposite of heaven. God does not condemn people there, they choose with their own free will to go there. Kind of like a drug addict chooses to use drugs. He thinks he is making himself happy but is killing his soul(and his body) in the process. Those that believe they do not need God to be happy choose to turn away from Him.
The idea that everyone is saved is ridiculous because that means we do not have free will. The fact that some people use the idea of hell to convert people through fear is not a problem since even Paul told us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I prefer to evangelize reciting promises of paradise but this does not work with some people, and saving the soul is paramount and the ends justify the means.
Satan's greatest success is convincing people he doesn't exist. Everyone who thinks hell doesn't exist, or that the effects of eternal fire are not felt are playing right into satans plans. This is where protestantism fails. As Martin Luther said "sin boldly" because he believed if you have faith you're going to heaven regardless of sin. If you're guaranteed heaven, or if hell doesn't exist, than why not sin? Some sin is quite fun actually and the negative effects aren't always readily perceivable. The bottom line is that all sin leads away from God/towards hell. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell, but he also is not going to make us love him either.

There are a few flaws in what you say.

#1 The Lake of Fire is not Hell. Simple - check your Bible, and if it is like most, it will state that Death and Hell are cast into the LoF. Hell cannot be cast into itself - therefore the LoF is not Hell. In this case, my own digging (pun intended) tells me that "Hell" in most cases means "the Grave." Now if Death and the Grave are cast into the LoF, how can anyone then be dead and in Hell? Either way, your Hell hypothesis does not work.

#2 OK, if the LoF is not Hell, what is it? Again, check your Bible, this time along with a good concordance. You will find that God describes Himself many times as cleansing fire and/or cleansing soap. Have most Christians missed it all these years? Yes, they have. The LoF is to cleanse, to burn away our dross, our wood, hay, and stubble. Once the impure is cleansed away, the person is then fit to enter the Kingdom. If the first death is temporal, then so is the second. It must be so because of #3.

#3 If most humans suffer torture in eternal fire (for temporal sins? God forbid!), or go into the Second Death forever, then how can God become All in all? Yet my Bible and yours states that He does. I choose to believe the Bible over damnationist or annihilationist preachers.

#4 Free Will is an extra-Biblical concept, and when you compare man's puny will to the Will of God, you will (pun intended) be forced to admit that our "free" will is an illusion. God has a Plan which we can circumvent, or so we think, but in the fullness of time, we will see it was all according to His Will and Plan all along... How could it be otherwise? As Einstein said, God does not play dice.

#5 If you postulate a Heaven ruled by God, and a Hell ruled by Satan, you elevate Satan to equality with God. That is Satan's ambition, so it must be false. Tell me how Satan can be cast out of Heaven to the Earth, and yet rule Hell? To believe such things dishonors a just, merciful, and loving God. Divine love would not send us to Hell (even if it exists, which I have shown it doesn't), Divine mercy would not send us to Hell, but what about Divine justice? Remember that God's justice was to send His own Son to die in our place. Now would a God who did that still relegate us to everlasting Hell? God forbid!

Text I do not agree that hell is made up to control people because that is not biblical. Christ himself spoke of a lake of fire, the unquenchable fire, wailing and grinding of teeth, etc. This at least tells us that it does exist and it does include pain. God is happiness, truth, and the light. The opposite is despair, lies, and darkness. We can relate to these things since we experience them here on earth.

reply to post by ccross


@ ccross

You are one of the very few that understands the true message of Christ Jesus. Your blog was right to the point and scriptural.

Text
There are a few flaws in what you say.

#1 The Lake of Fire is not Hell. Simple - check your Bible, and if it is like most, it will state that Death and Hell are cast into the LoF. Hell cannot be cast into itself - therefore the LoF is not Hell. In this case, my own digging (pun intended) tells me that "Hell" in most cases means "the Grave." Now if Death and the Grave are cast into the LoF, how can anyone then be dead and in Hell? Either way, your Hell hypothesis does not work.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


@ Laz
Reading your reply to cross is somewhat nonsensical and double talk at the best. Cross did not state that the lake of fire was hell. What he did say was that the lake of fire proves to him that there is pain and suffering at the end of this age. Another point to consider, that you have not revealed, is that if this entire universe is destroyed by fire, which is scriptural, then your so called grave will also be burned up. So either way (hell or grave) is a loser. By the way Laz, how do you get out of that grave or do you? And then what happens after you crawl out of that grave? Do you stand in mid air? The reason I ask is that the entire universe will be gone. Kapoot, nada. I have been waiting for you to finish your eternal message.

reply to post by freedom7


In order to scientifically understand the concept of Hell we have to go to the sources.

The Bible and Quran.

The word Hell, Arabic Jahannam, is derived from the Arabic word Janna, which means paradise and the Hebrew Gahanna which means Garden
So hell is derived from the word Paradise. This means Hell is a corrupted paradise.

When the corrupted paradise (Jahannam/hell) becomes again purified (Janna/ paradise/heaven) in the macrocosm, most of humanity (in the microcosm) will not inwardly reflect this cosmic metaphysical reality.

This will initiate a painful experience for people who have not already been in tune with this cosmic motion of purification—apocalypse. This experience is what we call hell.

This “hell” WILL NOT be eternal

Those few who will not experience “hell” are those who have already, before the Apocalypse, acquired enlightenment.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Laz

You're doing a great job explaining this regardless of the deaf ears it's falling on.As always my suggestion is stick to the Truth as you have been instead of making bullet points to their arguments .These folks will argue endlessly about things they know nothing of.I don't condemn them because I know why they do it however it's very tedious..... just be thankful it's over the internet and you don't have to respond.....I see why Yahoshua said dust your feet and move on.

Fortunately there are many folks that read these threads that don't respond and some that God will have their ears opened to the Truth of the Good News.I know if I heard this for the first time and I had any doubts about hell I would be ecstatic! Even though I know why the many hell believers aren't ecstatic it always amazes me how they believe this is bad news .

Again my suggestion is don't think about converting anyone... Yahoshua didn't convert one person when he preached.The Truth will do it's work and not return void.The Living word of the Truth is doing it all.

Literally there is no place such as “hell”. It is a metaphysical misnomer.

The actual spiritual science is delineated in the Quran and Bible where the “hell” is based on two words: Janna in Arabic and Gahanna in Hebrew. Both designate a Garden or enclosed space or state. This Garden or enclosed space was the Garden of Eden.

When inwardly, this Garden of Eden—which actually is a state of consciousness— became corrupted, as the Garden of Eden allegory with Adam states, then technically humans were in “hell” or varying degrees of a fallen state of impurity and imbalance.

This condition became a reality in the microcosm, the inward state of all humans individually, and the cosmic macrocosm as well, reflected in the solar system.

These words Heaven and Hell are all wrong. They are gross misnomers, and you won’t even read them in the scriptures.

There are no words for heaven and hell in the scripture.

Heaven and Hell is not the true dichotomy

Heaven means the sky

The dichotomy is paradise and the corrupted paradise that the Garden of Eden evolved to. One can colloquially call it hell.
Paradise and hell is closer to the truth of the state of consciousness polarity in the end.

reply to post by Willtell


perhaps we are all in hell now..
at different levels of disparity

reply to post by autopat51


That’s technically correct. To varying degrees we are out of the state of Janna (inward paradise) and in a state of fall from the original inward [purity of the Garden of Eden.]

reply to post by Willtell


interesting..then is realization of ones predicament a step forward?
2

Here is the science:

In a future period we have come to know and call the Apocalypse( THE REVEALING) the Garden of Eden outwardly will return to perfection.

Jahannam becomes again Janna.

This will occur first outwardly in the macrocosm.

The cosmic law
As above so below then will come in play.

What that means is that outwardly (macrocosmically) we will have a perfection that is not reflected in our inward selves (microcosmically).

That means that humans will have a tough time because they will be involuntarily forced to be inwardly purified, because of the cosmic law:
AS ABOVE SO BELOW.

We call that HELL!
This hell WILL NOT BE ETERNAL!

That means that humans will have a tough time because they will be involuntarily forced to be inwardly purified, because of the cosmic law:
AS ABOVE SO BELOW.


you lost me here..involuntarily forced?
why involuntary? by whom?