Illuminati....blamed for everything

reply to post by CIAGypsy


forget celebrities. the entire concept of the illuminati is mind boggling. several hundred years have passed and they haven't succeeded. Now, there are always those that say everything is going according to the plan, I ask this, who, in their right mind, sets up a plan that will take, roughly, 400-500 years to come to fruition? Who wins in that scenario? Not the original founders who would have no control over their own bloodlines or any of the other external forces that have altered the fabric of society over the last 400 years.

Actually, now that I think about it, celebrities like Rhianna are the perfect membership for this group. They've got money and the need to feel important so they are easy to recruit. They are, usually, not the brightest, most educated, folks in the room so they won't realize that the original concept is impossible to realize and they think the supposed symbols and hand signs are hella cool.

reply to post by CIAGypsy
The "Illuminati" is a group of rich people with a certain belief system. They operate under their beliefs, which date back thousands of years. They believe they are "illuminated" and we are not. Symbolism plays a big part, in their communication system.

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
If only I had a dollar for every time that this mythical group gets blamed for something....anything....everything.

Mind Control
Slavery - economic, sexual, and phyiscal
GMO
Chemtrails
Media
Aliens
Celebrities
Taxes
Politics
Government shills
Supernatural phenomena
Pornography
The "dumbing down" of society
The "beefing up" of waistlines
Deliberate poisoning of the air, sea, land
Global warming
War

*note - have you figured out the incredulity of all of this yet??? We can't even seem to balance our budget (probably should have added that to the list too....

), yet some people still argue that....somehow....some way....a group of super human, alien (or just plain greedy) people can manage all this subversion in (almost) complete secrecy????

You really have no clue of what the truth is, don't you? Or you are here to through dust in the eyes of the ATS community?

This is something i cannot understand about people. From the moment you have not searched about the illuminati, how and since when you are in position to say if they trully are the ones to blame for the crimes against humanity? There is no way you did a deep research about them and you did not find a lot of evidence which prove that they are a wealthy, powerful group of people who have focused their lives on getting the NWO to humanity as soon as possible. No way, especially in 2013 when they almost clearly state "yes, we are illuminati and from now on you will live in our NWO".

Talking about evidence, they are everywhere. In your tv channels, in your walk to the centre of the city, in your cellphone, on the internet and pretty much everywhere you look on, as i said before. It is something you simply cannot miss.

Now, either you have found these evidence before you post here and you are too proud to accept the truth or you are getting paid to present them as a mythical organisation. I deny the fact that you did not know anything about them, that you made a surface research about them, that you did not believe what you found in that research and that you came here to say that they are just a myth. But really, why on earth would you made a post like that? Are you so happy with the global situation that you do not see any conspiracies, anything that makes you say "this can't be true, this is paranoid"?

Please explain to me, if you still support the opinion that illuminati is a myth, why all the smart phones are able to trace your location no matter where you are and why the smart phones companies storage your location data for more than 2 years? Why is there an economical crisis around the world? Why the news on the tv give you wrong information about the politics, about the wars, about the economy? Why 11/9 happened? Why the hit in Boston happened? Why the US attacked Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now will attack Syria? Why NSA tends to watch the whole internet? Why there is area 51? Why the US, Russia and China have made many and huge underground bases?

Please reply to these.

reply to post by JesusChristwins


It's okay, man....feel free to hold onto that paranoia binky....

Maybe one day, logic will register. In the mean time, I'll keep adding to the list and grin at all the superhuman powers you assign.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

who, in their right mind, sets up a plan that will take, roughly, 400-500 years to come to fruition? Who wins in that scenario? Not the original founders who would have no control over their own bloodlines or any of the other external forces that have altered the fabric of society over the last 400 years.

I wish this simple fact could be pinned to any and every TPTB/Illuminati thread on ATS. But alas, we might fight delusion one post at a time....

Sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


someone's mind controlling people to go along with the design of the planet and language words, numbers, symbols and stuff. My family in this demented country are proof of something designing people, determining when they're born, what their names will be and the events of their lives. cant wait for 20 posts then make a post about it all

CIAGypsy

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

who, in their right mind, sets up a plan that will take, roughly, 400-500 years to come to fruition? Who wins in that scenario? Not the original founders who would have no control over their own bloodlines or any of the other external forces that have altered the fabric of society over the last 400 years.

I wish this simple fact could be pinned to any and every TPTB/Illuminati thread on ATS. But alas, we might fight delusion one post at a time....

Sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees.

What you've quoted is nothing more than somebody's opinion and can only be seen as a fact if you're biased. Good thing you're not a mod otherwise I'm sure you would,indeed,pin such things and promote them as facts.

Don't worry,we got your viewpoint. A pattern of a global scale which keeps on empowering the top heads while "disarming" the masses is nothing more but a huge pile of coincidences and the people who see something more into it are nothing more but a bunch of loons.


I find it very amusing that you're wasting your time discussing something which obviously you find silly(at best) while defending a group which you don't believe that even exists. What's the matter,are you that bored? If that's the case,there's no sub-forum and no subject that can attract your interest?

Oceanborn


What you've quoted is nothing more than somebody's opinion and can only be seen as a fact if you're biased. Good thing you're not a mod otherwise I'm sure you would,indeed,pin such things and promote them as facts.

no, what I've done is AGREE with someone's opinion which can happen in a thread.... Pity you if you have the only concurring opinion in any thread you post in...

Oceanborn
Don't worry,we got your viewpoint. A pattern of a global scale which keeps on empowering the top heads while "disarming" the masses is nothing more but a huge pile of coincidences and the people who see something more into it are nothing more but a bunch of loons.

Again you are wrong... I have posted strict FACTS concerning the alleged "global elite" in many, many threads... Here's one if you need some help looking it up - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oceanborn
I find it very amusing that you're wasting your time discussing something which obviously you find silly(at best) while defending a group which you don't believe that even exists. What's the matter,are you that bored? If that's the case,there's no sub-forum and no subject that can attract your interest?

Let me introduce you to something called humor... It can be completely life changing. You might want to look into it some time... There is nothing wrong with poking fun at something that I, you, or others find ridiculous. You act like you have never made a joke of something. If that's the case, then I pity you.

ETA (I am cooking spaghetti and had to step away....) - I will not lie that it *does* irk me to no end that people make assumptions about the motivations of people, real people. If you spent any amount of time with these same people, I doubt you'd be sitting at your computer sniping about what you do not know.... There is good and bad people at ALL levels of society, but that does not mean that those who live "at the top" have a higher percentage of crimes than anyone else. They make a living, just like anyone else. Many times, the companies they (or their families) have built are their IDENTITY. You sit behind a computer, jealous of others accomplishments, and malign their reputations and, often, the very fabric of their identity....for what?? How do you honestly expect someone to respond to that? How would YOU respond to that kind of assassination of YOUR character??? Especially knowing how many millions or hundreds of millions you have GIVEN BACK to help society??? Yeah, rather than get disgusted (which I do often)....I choose to poke fun at the ridiculousness of your theory because you know NOTHING about what you talking about.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


I believe JBS John Birch Society were the originators of most illuminati, nwo conspiraces as far back as the 1950s cold war period. However it appears that when the cold war ended the conspiracies simply become info for all kinds of conspiracy pundits especially lucrative for David Icke and Alex Jones.
Seem the JBS are the types that use to support full blown american imperialism & exceptionalism now they have been responsible for major populist blowback that has exposed CFR Anglo-american establishment while napping.
Seems your crying for US gov and establishment when they completely responsible for creating their own dysfunctional society this includes populist blow back movements by its own citizens. Too bad

reply to post by CIAGypsy


Let me make clear first that I'm not going to analyze this whole thing with you.It's like reinventing the wheel for a person who's determined to ignore its existence. It's pointless. Now that I got this out of the way.

no, what I've done is AGREE with someone's opinion which can happen in a thread.... Pity you if you have the only concurring opinion in any thread you post in...

You called it a fact worthy to be pinned to "any and every TPTB/Illuminati thread on ATS". That post of yours is in the very same page where I pointed it out.

Again you are wrong... I have posted strict FACTS concerning the alleged "global elite" in many, many threads... Here's one if you need some help looking it up - www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's really funny that you carry on with your attitude while you're starting a pointless thread and when that is pointed out you link posts of yours from other threads.
Should I be checking every OP's posting history from now on...? I sure can't read your mind in case you were expecting that.

Also,what you've posted in that other thread isn't really debunking anything. What you're pretty much doing there is showing that the details are not served for us on a silver platter. I knew that already.

Let me introduce you to something called humor... It ca*SNIPPED because blah blah blah*

Well,let me return the favor and introduce you to the section where this thread truly belongs: Jokes,Puns,& Pranks
There you go.

You sit behind a computer, jealous of others accomplishments, and malign their reputations and, often, the very fabric of their identity....

Who's making the assumptions now...? Maybe the only "real people" on this planet are the ones you bother defending,who knows.
Other than that,I wouldn't spend even a minute with those people.

You know it and I know it that hard work by itself means nothing. Don't shake the right hands and you'll end up at the bottom of the food chain...at best.
Spare me the drama and the efforts to make em look as human as the average person,I wasn't born yesterday.

Theprimordialocker
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

I believe JBS John Birch Society were the originators of most illuminati, nwo conspiraces as far back as the 1950s cold war period. However it appears that when the cold war ended the conspiracies simply become info for all kinds of conspiracy pundits especially lucrative for David Icke and Alex Jones.
Seem the JBS are the types that use to support full blown american imperialism & exceptionalism now they have been responsible for major populist blowback that has exposed CFR Anglo-american establishment while napping.
Seems your crying for US gov and establishment when they completely responsible for creating their own dysfunctional society this includes populist blow back movements by its own citizens. Too bad

Well, first of all, if you assume the stereotypical conspiracy that the alleged Illuminati are the 13 families or even the international bankers (who is that anyway? ), then they supposedly control puppets in the US (and all? ) government. It is one thing to debate a conspiracy about an alleged group of people who get assigned all kinds of global control at their feet and the impossibility of that kind of power structure.

It is another to debate the politics or actions of this administration. I do not see them as one and the same. I work with the US government on various levels. Many people in government are good, honest people. They get frustrated by policy as much as those outside, but... Like a soldier... This is their job, their livelihood. They don't always get the freedom to buck the system. Until you have been there (and maybe YOU have, who knows), it is unfair to judge.

I will not say I am against this government although I do believe it has evolved away from what made it great. I have spoken out against these actions about government policy in many threads.

So it would not be accurate to say I am "crying for government" and defending the alleged Illuminati. I speak against policy that hurts the country and defend people who have not earned the maligned reputations spouted against them because of their wealth. It is almost always either jealousy of that wealth or criticism that you "would do something different" that drives such opinions. Again, unless you have been in those shoes, who are you to judge? Although you (and everyone) is welcome to hold whatever opinion you want.... But are you strong enough to acknowledge that maybe your opinion is based on limited knowledge or experience?

Oceanborn
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

Let me make clear first that I'm not going to analyze this whole thing with you.It's like reinventing the wheel for a person who's determined to ignore its existence. It's pointless. Now that I got this out of the way.

typical deflection...

Oceanborn
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

You called it a fact worthy to be pinned to "any and every TPTB/Illuminati thread on ATS". That post of yours is in the very same page where I pointed it out.

yes, because it is one point that CT'ers who believe in this nonsense never have any response to... It would be good to see some good debate on the point.

Oceanborn
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

It's really funny that you carry on with your attitude while you're starting a pointless thread and when that is pointed out you link posts of yours from other threads.
Should I be checking every OP's posting history from now on...? I sure can't read your mind in case you were expecting that.

Yes, because I get tired of posting and re-posting arguments over and over. Much easier to simply write out once and then relink it as needed. Sorry you feel my being efficient somehow makes the INFORMATION less credible.

Oceanborn
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

Also,what you've posted in that other thread isn't really debunking anything. What you're pretty much doing there is showing that the details are not served for us on a silver platter. I knew that already.

Then you clearly didn't read or research the information that was presented. Again, allowing your preconceived opinions to trump fact.

Oceanborn
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

Let me introduce you to something called humor... It ca*SNIPPED because blah blah blah*

Well,let me return the favor and introduce you to the section where this thread truly belongs: Jokes,Puns,& Pranks
There you go.

Although I may be making jokes and using humor in my opening thread, the topic is very real. Using open humor in a thread does not mean the topic needs to be relegated to the forum of Jokes, Puns, and Pranks.

Again, I feel sorry for you that you can't tell the difference.

Oceanborn
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

Who's making the assumptions now...? Maybe the only "real people" on this planet are the ones you bother defending,who knows.
Other than that,I wouldn't spend even a minute with those people.

You know it and I know it that hard work by itself means nothing. Don't shake the right hands and you'll end up at the bottom of the food chain...at best.
Spare me the drama and the efforts to make em look as human as the average person,I wasn't born yesterday.

Then why do you continue in this thread??? Just curious....

It appears to be easy for you to malign the reputations of people you do not know. First of all...this is a GENERAL statement, so keep it in that context... But there is often a separation of attitude on how they address business matters versus those of a personal, human, or spiritual nature. I was told the idiom "you will become like those you associate with...." which was meant to be taken from a business perspective, mostly. In other words, if I choose to spend most of my time with jobless, drug addicts, then those attitudes will reflect in my business life. However, that idiom does not apply to address the real human needs of this planet. The wealthy have given back to people over and over in spades and you conveniently neglect that fact because, in your opinion, they have not done ENOUGH. Well....what have YOU done???

reply to post by Crakeur


Interesting that you leave out . . .

a rather timeless entity with a millennia long super grudge against God Almighty.

And, evidently you also leave out a PRIMARY SOURCE document . . . one of George Washington's personal letters . . .

13."It was not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread to the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied of this fact than I am." The Writings of George Washington 1798 letter.

from


twoday.net...


twga...

= = =

Personally, I'll take George Washington's comment on the Illuminati over yours.

It's been documented that he knew what he was talking about on such scores.

It is puzzling that you evidently think that the globalist cabal has not made significant progress toward their goal of one world satanic government and a one world satan worshiping religion in the last 200 years.


Perhaps you could become more enlightened on the topic if you read even 20% of their quotes at the above links.

The Bible predicted such in the same era in which Israel became a nation again, in a day . . . i.e. 1948.

And certainly we see it transpiring quite according to that Biblical outline . . . rather exactly.

Of course, there's always the more

'absolutely vitally important' stuff to pay more attention to . . .

e.g. Dancing with the Stars.
What Hollyweed distraction is sleeping currently with whom;
. . .
. . .

That's it . . . look the other way . . . pay no attention to the progress toward the tyrannical one world government and one world religion.

Pretend it's all fairy tales.

It will better set-up the Eloi shuffling into the caverns of the Morlachs . . . so well depicted by that dedicated globalist author quoted in the above link . . . HG Wells.

So cheers to all those arm-chair experts who

"know" . . . [using the term grossly loosely]

more about the illuminati and the tyrannical globalist cabal

than globalists like George Washington, HG Wells, George Orwell, Jacques Cousteau; Robert McNamara; JFK, J Edgar Hoover, President W Wilson, FDR, Thomas Jefferson, both Bush Presidents, the Clintons, . . .

None are so blind as those who WILL NOT . . .


.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


Actually it was a simple heads-up.

yes, because it is one point that CT'ers who believe in this nonsense never have any response to... It would be good to see some good debate on the point.

You don't have to go far. In this site you can find plenty of threads about it. What you obviously want is the "debate" to be repeated over and over again while you're already as biased as one can be.

Yes, because I get tired of posting and re-posting arguments over and over. Much easier to simply write out once and then relink it as needed. Sorry you feel my being efficient somehow makes the INFORMATION less credible.

With other words,make a childish,sarcastic OP just once and if you get called on it then re-link something in the later pages.
Who's gonna bother "discussing" it with you and better yet,why would anyone bother...? *sigh*
Trying to convince me that your intention was to re-link things later on is ridiculous.

Then you clearly didn't read or research the information that was presented. Again, allowing your preconceived opinions to trump fact.

Is that so? Tell you what,make a thread then and debunk whatever you think you can debunk. You waited till page 6 to dig up a fast-food reply from another thread (which from the few things I've read it's about who's more/less rich) while your OP has no value. Why didn't you just debunk this "myth" and be done with it? You made the thread after all,the only thing left was to post something more than just "humor"...

Although I may be making jokes and using humor in my opening thread, the topic is very real. Using open humor in a thread does not mean the topic needs to be relegated to the forum of Jokes, Puns, and Pranks. Again, I feel sorry for you that you can't tell the difference.

No need to feel sorry about me. I'm not the one trying to hide the elephant in the room.


You keep being touchy about their reputations while you seem pretty fine when you're passing judgement left and right and being sarcastic to others. Why don't you fix that first? Let's take the latest example: You called me jealous of them. Why and how do you know it?

I was told the idiom "you will become like those you associate with...." which was meant to be taken from a business perspective, mostly.

Not just business but even if it was,doesn't our personal character affect our business choices and actions? It sure does.
I'm really glad you brought up that saying.

The wealthy have given back to people over and over in spades and you conveniently neglect that fact because, in your opinion, they have not done ENOUGH. Well....what have YOU done???

But I don't want the rich to give anything to the people. If they were true philanthropists they'd help in stopping this organized mess we live in but they don't. Other than that,while I'm sure some of them indeed do charities,others actually don't,they exhange some of the money for PR and noone knows for a fact if the money reaches the poor or not. Some organizations use "charities" as a way to evade taxes.

Me? Maybe I've done something,maybe I've done nothing. The only thing you can be sure about is that I'm not gonna advertise it.

Then why do you continue in this thread??? Just curious....

I'm just being Captain Obvious. For instance:
You made a "humorous" thread which...is also serious. Quite convinient.
You provided nothing and you just belittled the subject and those who support it.
You actually wished that a simple opinion would be pinned in every thread of this nature,something which shows your extreme bias.
You don't like when people judge the powerful of this world but it's all good when you do it to them.
*You put quite an effort on a subject you find ridiculous to begin with.

Don't worry,I'm not gonna stay for long.

reply to post by BO XIAN


perhaps anyone who thinks that a plan, hatched several hundred years ago, is still in effect, should ponder the horrible ineptitude of those who initiated this plan.

Anyone with any kind of world domination leanings wants world domination for himself, and his group. Anyone who sets out to create a sinister, world controlling plan, that won't actually work for several hundred years is relying on so many variables that it is impossible to deliver, as promised.

you're talking about relying on, thus far, several generations of compliance with the plan. You're assuming that the OI (original illuminati) set forth a plan that knew of the changes in society, the advancements in technology etc.

The world was a much different place several hundred years ago. In theory, global control might actually have been possible but today, with the far faster spread of news and the far more closely connected global population, it would make more sense if the illuminati started today, using today's tech. Instead, they are like the large corporations that are still trying to rule their field via methods that are no longer timely, like the music industry.

I can just see the original meeting, in some back room in an inn or pub, and some guy is laying out the details.

Illuminiati guy 1: So, in about 400 years, our plan will really start to take shape so that the great great great great grandchildren of our great great great great great great great grandchildren will rule the northern hemisphere.

Illuminati guy 2: um, what if there's a plague that wipes our our families, who will move the plan forward?

Guy 1: what are the odds of there being a global epidemic that wipes out that many people?

Guy 2: I know, silly but, still, shouldn't we have contingencies in place?

Guy 1: we will and we will make sure that, in the event of any kind of catastrophe that destroys populations, or regions, we'll have our line of genetically superior horses and pigeons to ensure that our people get the news first and can capitalize on it.



yeah, I fear that our world will, one day, be taken over by the 8th generation of Mr. Mcgoo trying to follow a new world order map laid out in some candle or lantern lit room almost 250 years ago.

Humans can't get along long enough to follow lego instructions.

reply to post by Crakeur


I think your biases are blinding you to the reality of the entities behind the human illuminati.

You have evidently arbitrarily declared to yourself that such entities cannot and therefore, in your construction on reality, do not exist.

The facts are otherwise as the eons have documented.

You seemingly do not admit or realize that there is a dark spiritual lord fully able to concoct a plan many thousands of years ago . . . and . . . being 'eternal' in terms of his existence . . . he has no trouble interfacing with a long sequence of human individuals--particularly those of essentially the same ruling families.

Scientist Jacques Vallee and Dr J A Hynek have both asserted that the UFO critters are evil spiritual entities from an evil spiritual DIMENSION.

All such is congruent with a list of facts from the ages and multiple sources currently.

If you would merely be willing to consider such a possibility in a hypothetical sense, I think it might be instructive for you.

There would be no great problem in such an entity constructing such a plan from the beginning of his getting tossed out of God's Presence.

His lust for vengeance is certainly millennia long and intense.

Certainly the PTB have worshiped him all these hundreds of years. The documentation is more than convincing for those perceptive enough to fairly consider it.

He has seduced them via THEIR lust for power, through their pride . . . as well as through their sexual lusts and exploits.

And, he has clearly coached them on the sequences of the over-all script . . .

HOW ELSE

would you explain the sequential, incremental progress the plan has made over the last 200 years?

if you read even 25% of the quotes listed here,

twoday.net...

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1334097380&sr=1-5

how could you fail to notice the progress--the very clear and horrific progress toward their END GAME.

Certainly it is a fact that the Biblical outline of the END TIMES is being played out to the letter. And that set of prophecies is at least 2,000 years old.

I encourage you to broaden what you consider to be possible.

reply to post by Crakeur


You're using your own viewpoint as the basis here. Let me explain it to you with an example:

Personally I find death sentence absurd and illogical. If I'll go on with just that then I should assume that no countries practice it since it's absurd but in reality it is being practiced even nowdays (for anyone interested check this capital punishment wiki. )
My personal views on this has zero effect on reality.


You also are in disbelief because of the work such thing would require. I think you're being unfair to the human race.
How many people are required to make a space-rocket launch succesful? How many people are required to build that rocket and everything else is needed for it? How many people are required to first make the research for it? Even before that,how many people were required to come up with the ideas that led on this outcome? With what knowledge? Didn't they capitalise on studies,theories and sciences of other people? Didn't they use knowledge which some of its roots are located even in the ancient times?

With what I've just said,does it still seem weird to you that we actually can operate in highly organized manners? Is it just my opinion or there are indeed way too many examples of such things in the history of the human race?

I also thought about bringing up the motivation factor but I have faith that you already realize that you're underestimating the human race and the things we can achieve (good and bad) while in the same time you let your personal views play a bigger role than they should actually do (at least in my opinion).

BO XIAN

I think your biases are blinding you to the reality of the entities behind the human illuminati.

nope, just basing my decision on the realities of human nature.

BO XIAN

You have evidently arbitrarily declared to yourself that such entities cannot and therefore, in your construction on reality, do not exist.

Such entities? "You mean secret cabals of 5th generation Dr. Evils? They might exist but they are harmless since, after so many centuries of futility, they're about as dangerous as a leaf.

reply to post by Oceanborn


on the contrary, it's human nature that makes it all seem so silly. Yes, many humans are driven although, outside of a small group of modernized nations, the drive is not for power or money. Yes, when humans put their minds to it, they can accomplish great things but, if I was to start gathering a team of people with a goal that might come to fruition in 300 years, if I'm lucky, nobody would want to sign up. why? because there's no guarantee that it will continue beyond the lives of the initial group. You won't receive world power, you won't receive vast amounts of gold, you won't receive fame and fortune but your great great great great grandkids will, if you kids have kids and they have kids and they have kids etc.


So, yeah, human nature is such that, if the plan wasn't going to come to fruition in the near future, nobody would sign up.

Did some group set out for this back in the late 1700's? Probably. Did they map out a 500 year plan? No. they thought they could do it in their life times. They failed.


Did George Washington mention them? Possibly since their timelines are in the same era.

Is it possible that there's some 4th generation Dr. Evil still plotting a New World Order? Sure. Is he following a plan mapped out in the 1700's? If he his, he's an idiot.

reply to post by Crakeur


Even in the beginning of such a plan they would get something out of it. Some wealth,some power or some influence. In a small scale,yes,that's the way things work anyway. When taking the stairs for instance,you have to step on the very first step to eventually reach the upper floors.
That being said,there's several ways to bring people together and several things which you can promise to them. A rotten person will say anything to someone to convince him and keep in mind,this is just one of the ways to make people cooperate with you. Sincerity isn't a must.

Anyway,it seems that we'll keep disagreeing after all so I'll drop it now.