Evolution backed up by Hoaxes and Desperate Lies

Originally posted by JameSimon

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Originally posted by JameSimon

1. We are missing a lot of transitional fossils:

Every fossil is a transitional fossil, but I know what you mean.

Yes I don't think I expressed myself the best way I could, sorry.

No need for apologies, I'm sure we all understood exactly what you meant!

Click here for more information.

reply to post by jiggerj


Thank You!, I was going to reply to the OP in a similar manner.

IMHO, I don't think anyone can claim to KNOW anything, these discussions have been becoming more like games where people decide what "Team" they're on.

I am surrounded by people who want me to join their team in support of our local religious leader, they say I should join the church because he is a relative....

Anyway, the biggest issue for most people regarding religion is getting past the conditioning to accept something as truth just because it was hammered into one's head when one was to young to resist it, too young to defend themselves. What one is led to believe has to be questioned if those beliefs were put there by others.

It's not about how or what one believes, it's about who wants one to believe what, and why.

My relatives who are "The Church" in this area, driving around in $70,000 trucks and cars, paid for by the "Team".

And people wonder why some don't believe..............

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

In fact, Christianity is not allowed in schools yet we are forced to attend them if we can't pay for private schools

It's really that hard for you folk to tell the truth, isn't it? I mean, you know damn well that people just like you forced various state education systems to include "creationism" and "intelligent design" in their "science" courses. You know damn well that intelligent design and creationism are talking about God, the christian god. Which is either God, or Jesus, or both, depending on what day it is, where the sun is at, and who you are asking.

you can try to drag people back into the dark ages, i'm sure you'll get plenty. But, as you clearly know, you have to start young. See, you can't get someone who already has some critical thinking skills over to your side, that dog doesn't hunt. So you have to INDOCTRINATE them young.

But, as you've obviously learned, it's rather hard to force your child to live in fantasy land while people day in and day out show them facts and evidence that disprove your "teachings". So, you've got to force the schools to play your little make believe game too.

And if you had any ability to think clearly or critically, you'd see that evolution, the theory and the fact, still allow for your mystical magic man in the sky who loves you, and hates you, do be the creator. But that's not enough. Nope, for fantasy world bizzaroo land, you've also got to convince people the sky is purple and elephants float.

Good luck to you sir, as I feel the reality around us will simply not let your fantasy withstand the test of time. MAybe that's why your numbers are dwindling. Maybe that's why you are desperate.

This creationist push is the death rattle of a dinosaur.... which did exist, sorry about your luck. So you know what, push, cry, scream and fight, go for it, I'm taking a break, because in a few short years, there won't be enough people willing to listen to your crap to make me bother trying to counter it.

So when your child asks why the sky is blue, do you tell them god did it? Or do you explain the photon receptors in your eyes and the refraction of light coming from the sun through our atmosphere?

When I have children, I want them to know things, not believe. I guess that's where we're different. i know things, because i have scientific evidence and facts to show me these things. You have a book, written and edited a few thousand years ago, taking bits and pieces of various other religions and beliefs to incorporate them. Nothing, nothing you can present, or could ever present, could withstand basic scientific scrutiny.

Do we really need to post up the religious hoaxes? I love ATS and all, but I seriously doubt their storage capacity could withstand the torrent of information if we went that route.

As a Christian, i cannot deny bones that is millions of years old. So, i look at what happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

The earth, sun, moon and all stars (Universe) were created in verse 1 already. The time frame from verse 1 to verse 2 one cannot know. So, yes, there were dinosaurs and ape-like creatures. But, man i.e; US, were created later (after verse 2 in Genesis)

I am not from ape. None of us are.

We adapt according to the environment we live/grew up in, yet, all of us still have the same features and senses, even though some will handle colder weather better than others, and vice verse.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


What I don't get is why people think Evolution and Religion have to be mutually exclusive..... Evolution is pretty evident just from common sense (i.e. vestigial leg bones in whales, how some of us are born with tails, etc.) despite any hoaxes from guys trying to get a payday.... But, I don't see how that can be used to disprove a God. Surely it can be argued that any Divine creator also designed the process, no?

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that evolutionists are asking us "religious" folk WHY we believe what we believe...

No, I find it ironic that religious folk ask us why we believe in what we believe.

At the same time they are gullible enough to believe everything they are told about the "evolution cult" sponsored by TPTB.

At the same time they are gullible enough to believe that religion is not a tool for control.

Has it EVER occurred to you that just MAYBE that large amount of "evidence" you call FACTS has been fabricated?

Has it Ever occurred to you that just Maybe that large amounts of your religion is fabricated.

People, you are being duped.

Religious people you HAVE been duped.

Are TPTB worthy of your trust?

Is your invisible God worthy of trust ?

Isn't that a red flag to you?

Isn't that a red flag to you?

They have been caught lying about evolution so many times already!

Religious leaders have been caught lying many times.

And they continue to lie to you.

And they continue to lie to you.

"The model of human prehistory built-up by scholars over the past two centuries is sadly and completely wrong, and a deliberate tool of disinformation and mind control. ...they demonstrate a systematic destruction of proofs that show another reality than that the official story. Falsifications and even destruction of such proofs has been common for more than two hundred years." LINK

The whole "theory" of evolution rests on a foundation of nothing but hoaxes and frauds.

The whole "theory" of religion rests on a foundation of nothing but hoaxes and frauds.

Even many scientists are even in doubt as to the nature of evolution.

Even many priests are even in doubt as to the nature of religion.

Java Man, Neanderthal Man, Piltdown Man, Nebraska Man, Peking Man and East Africa Man were ALL frauds.

God is a fraud.

Piltdown man was the biggest scientific hoax of the 21st century.

God is the biggest hoax ever.

Cro-Magnon man and Neanderthal were perfectly normal humans that lived to a really great age.

God never lived ever.

Many are still used in the textbooks even though it's been proven years ago that they cannot possibly be missing links.

Many are using the bible even though it has never been proved as fact.

"One acquaintance once told me he enjoys debunking Darwinism, when I asked him why? He answered with "the math", what he was referring to is that math with biology can't support it. One biological scientist once said the Darwin theory is so mathematically impossible it's odds of happening are like 1 out of the number that represents all the atoms in the universe. Nobody knows what that number actually is. But it's a hyperbole to make a point."

Debunking religion is easy as there is no proof of any kind.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It would take days to begin to explain how much false evidence has been put forward as proof for Evolution. There was the Piltdown man fraud, there was the Orce man fraud, there was The Archaeoraptor Liaoningensis: or the Fake Dinosaur-bird ancestor, which turned out to be a fraud, and a big embarrasment for National Geographic Magazine.

There was the Nebraska man fraud, there was the Java man fraud, there was the Neanderthal man fraud. This could go on and on, and the reason for this, is because as soon as they think they found the missing link, the Evolutionist bring out their big brass marching band.

Yet as soon as they find out that the evidence in question is a fraud, everything is hushed up, and you never hear any more about it. Which leaves everyone thinking they have the theory nailed down.

About every few years they come out with the new missing link, only to find out the link is either another species or a fraud. And this happens over, and over, and over, and almost no one ever questions this, and joe public just believes what ever the news media tells them.
Consider this link: www.nwcreation.net...

What part of Evolution is a lie?

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

What I don't get is why people think Evolution and Religion have to be mutually exclusive..... Evolution is pretty evident just from common sense (i.e. vestigial leg bones in whales, how some of us are born with tails, etc.) despite any hoaxes from guys trying to get a payday.... But, I don't see how that can be used to disprove a God. Surely it can be argued that any Divine creator also designed the process, no?

Thats what i have alwadys thought.

Theres so many holes in both evolution and basic ID that i think in time we will know enough that those holes can be slotted together for a wholer picture.

Believe or not i have meet more scientists that believe in some form of god than dont.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

What I don't get is why people think Evolution and Religion have to be mutually exclusive..... (..)
Surely it can be argued that any Divine creator also designed the process, no?

Last time I was discussing Evolution with a very good (and christian) friend of mine. I asked him how he felt about evolution. He said exactly what you said. This was the moment I realized he was right. Until then I wrongfully assumed that evolution can happen only independently from I. Design.

I think... hm, I strongly believe that you're right on track. I don't know how some other people will spend lifetimes without realizing what you just said.

Originally posted by KaelemJames
As a Christian, i cannot deny bones that is millions of years old. So, i look at what happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

The earth, sun, moon and all stars (Universe) were created in verse 1 already. The time frame from verse 1 to verse 2 one cannot know. So, yes, there were dinosaurs and ape-like creatures. But, man i.e; US, were created later (after verse 2 in Genesis)

I am not from ape. None of us are.

We adapt according to the environment we live/grew up in, yet, all of us still have the same features and senses, even though some will handle cold weather better than other and vice verse.

You're wrong. I have 3 agenesis in my mouth: 2 wisdom teeth + 1 pre-molar. This is evolution happening. We don't need to have transitory teeth and we don't need the 3rd set of molars. Also, some people have pointy canines and others have blunt canines. Blunt canines are becoming more and more common, you know why? Evolution. Our mouth alone proves that we are evolving, just not in a lifetime.

Originally posted by JameSimon

Originally posted by KaelemJames
As a Christian, i cannot deny bones that is millions of years old. So, i look at what happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

The earth, sun, moon and all stars (Universe) were created in verse 1 already. The time frame from verse 1 to verse 2 one cannot know. So, yes, there were dinosaurs and ape-like creatures. But, man i.e; US, were created later (after verse 2 in Genesis)

I am not from ape. None of us are.

We adapt according to the environment we live/grew up in, yet, all of us still have the same features and senses, even though some will handle cold weather better than other and vice verse.

You're wrong. I have 3 agenesis in my mouth: 2 wisdom teeth + 1 pre-molar. This is evolution happening. We don't need to have transitory teeth and we don't need the 3rd set of molars. Also, some people have pointy canines and others have blunt canines. Blunt canines are becoming more and more common, you know why? Evolution. Our mouth alone proves that we are evolving, just not in a lifetime.

100% correct.

Originally posted by Gazrok

What I don't get is why people think Evolution and Religion have to be mutually exclusive..... Evolution is pretty evident just from common sense (i.e. vestigial leg bones in whales, how some of us are born with tails, etc.) despite any hoaxes from guys trying to get a payday.... But, I don't see how that can be used to disprove a God. Surely it can be argued that any Divine creator also designed the process, no?

True (IMO)

God created all. What was on earth before Genesis 1:2 were created by God. He is the Creator of all.

Originally posted by JameSimon
Also, some people have pointy canines and others have blunt canines. Blunt canines are becoming more and more common

Are you sure it's not because of these people's alimentation during their lives? Some food can really erode teeth, you know. I saw a southern artist whose front teeth were all eroded. Evolution happens when you're born with a condition (genetic).

Originally posted by KaelemJames

I am not from ape. None of us are.

Sorry to tell you, but morphologically and genetically we belong to the homonoid group, more specifically Homonids (ie. Great Apes). You are an Ape whether you like it or not, all of us are. Whether you choose to believe otherwise, being a different matter entirely.

reply to post by JameSimon


If i am wrong in your opinion, i welcome your input.

Some babies are born with 6 fingers on one hand, some 6 on each hand.

We are still the same. Sometimes an extra tooth/teeth, fingers, nipples happens. We can blame many natural factors (radiation) for other severe situations.

I will tell you, that even in the time of Abraham there were babies born with extra toes ect.

You believe you/we are evolving, i don't.


reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum


And, who says that Hominids didn't live before Genesis 1:2? That is; Before God created man in Genesis 1:27.

People stick to that we are from ape. We, our children, are being taught this because we follow knowledge of the flesh, and then we call it "common sense" & "Fact!"

How many people study that gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2? We don't care to study or research it. I am not even talking to study and learn from scripture alone, but by Spiritual Guidance. And, if i say we need to trust that through Spiritual Guidance we will be shown answers, i get called crazy. Why? Because flesh have already "proven" we evolved from an ape-like creature.

Man trusts flesh, not that which is Higher than us. Think we know all? We are not Omniscient. We, in flesh, cannot even fathom what true knowledge is. We fill our empty voids in our search for answers with the knowledge of flesh and don't trust in Him to gain Spiritual knowledge.

My "rant" (which it is not ) i am putting here to ask people to search and ask, but not with the knowledge and trust in flesh, but with the guidance of our Creator. We can see & hear, we can truly see & hear. Our hearts are screaming for truth. Go and get it. It is for free.

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Originally posted by KaelemJames

I am not from ape. None of us are.

Sorry to tell you, but morphologically and genetically we belong to the homonoid group, more specifically Homonids (ie. Great Apes). You are an Ape whether you like it or not, all of us are. Whether you choose to believe otherwise, being a different matter entirely.

Someone, long ago, decided to call humans "apes". This was about at the same time than Eugenics program and racial conflicts.

Yes, we share genes with apes. but we also share 97.5 % of our genes with rats.

If we share 98.5 % of our genes with Apes, what's the 1.5 % which is left unaccounted for, and which no animals on Earth have?

If Man is the evolution of apes, how come there's still (non-evolved) apes? The evolution theory seems incomplete.

Evolution does happen. But why was Mankind the only animal to evolve so fast? We can now communicate across the globe, eradicate diseases and reach the Moon and Mars. We can think about deep metaphysical concepts. Why the humans the only animal to ever do all of this?

Originally posted by swanne
Are you sure it's not because of these people's alimentation during their lives? Some food can really erode teeth, you know. I saw a southern artist whose front teeth were all eroded. Evolution happens when you're born with a condition (genetic).

edit on 13-8-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)

I am. I studied as a dental assistant, I had anatomy and genetics. Teeth are naturally eroded, like those little "saws" that 95% of us had on our central incisives. That is erosion. Being born with blunt or pointy canines is genetics, pure and simple. Loss of 1st premolars and 3rd molars and bluntness of canines is genetics at work, it's becoming more and more common. Supranumerary teeth (for example, having 6 incisives instead of 4) is not evolution, it's a birth defect caused by recessive genes.

Originally posted by KaelemJames
If i am wrong in your opinion, i welcome your input.
Some babies are born with 6 fingers on one hand, some 6 on each hand.
We are still the same. Sometimes an extra tooth/teeth, fingers, nipples happens. We can blame many natural factors (radiation) for other severe situations.
I will tell you, that even in the time of Abraham there were babies born with extra toes ect.
You believe you/we are evolving, i don't.

You're comparing Apples to Oranges: Both are fruits but nothing alike. Take, for example, having blue eyes: It's a recessive trait, It can become the norm but only if people with blue eyes/blue eyed people on their families reproduce. Take, now, extra fingers: This is an error on a genetic level, it has nothing to do with recessive/dominant traits. One of the most harmless genetic errors that can occur is having green eyes: Its not hereditary and it's a mutation of the Brown Eye (dominant) gene.

There are sporadic mutations, mutations and acquired traits.

Originally posted by JameSimon
Supranumerary teeth (for example, having 6 incisives instead of 4) is not evolution, it's a birth defect caused by recessive genes.

Thanks for the information (giving you a star for it). It's good to meet someone who know his/her matter.

What I now must wonder, is how you define what is evolution and what is not? Some are very obvious. But other "birth defect" actually are evolution. Take a look at color-blindness. It is a recessive trait, yet it's also considered evolution, since it enables the mutant to see slightly better in monochromatic situation.

Originally posted by swanne


Someone, long ago, decided to call humans "apes". This was about at the same time than Eugenics program and racial conflicts.

Really? So you are inferring that being classified as Apes and Eugenics programmes are related in some way?

Yes, we share genes with apes. but we also share 97.5 % of our genes with rats.

If we share 98.5 % of our genes with Apes, what's the 1.5 % which is left unaccounted for, and which no animals on Earth have?

If you stop to consider we are different species, perhaps the differences are not so hard to understand? I wonder if the Orang-utan prays to his god, safe in the knowledge that those genetically different humans must be inferior?

All life is related to some extent because we share a common ancestor. Being Mammals would make us much closer, genetically. Though it isn't as simple as you imply.

Did you miss the part about "morphology"?

We are Apes by definition.

Originally posted by swanne
Yes, we share genes with apes. but we also share 97.5 % of our genes with rats.

If we share 98.5 % of our genes with Apes, what's the 1.5 % which is left unaccounted for, and which no animals on Earth have?

With this reasoning you just proved that we are descendants of a common ancestor. And also, If you take that same rat DNA it will have exclusive genes not found in any other species. You know why? Evolution. Our capability to speak is a mutation, our tolerance to lactose is a mutation, etc. We have lots of traits that are exclusive to us, hence the exclusive genes. This happens with every animal on the planet. We are all connected but we are all different.

PS: Caucasians have genes that pure africans don't have, and vice-versa.