Interesting Facts About the Abuse of Native Americans You Haven't Heard.

Despite common misconception, the decline of the Native populations in the Americas are often misrepresented. The number of deaths that we see typically include Canada, Central America, and South America, while the causes for those losses are often portrayed as far more malevolent than they actually were. Indeed, genocide WAS committed against the Native populations, I am not here to argue that. What I AM here to argue is the gross miscalculation that many people seem to have surrounding how rampant said genocide was, and explain the cause of today's low Native American population.

Which "Americans" do YOU believe to be the masters of Genocide? The English? The French? The Spanish? They were not all working under a single authority figure, which is an important fact to remember. (You'd be surprised at how many people blame the US alone) I have noticed that the total number of Native deaths in the Americas surrounding the European invasion of the new world is often directed solely at the US. The US seems to absorb the blame for not only it's own actions, but the actions of it's neighbors as well.

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I've seen estimates of Native American populations in the territories which are now the United States as high as 50 million or more. Utter nonsense - there is little to no evidence which supports such claims.

While it is difficult to determine exactly how many Natives lived in North America before Columbus,[5] estimates range from a low of 2.1 million (Ubelaker 1976) to 7 million people (Russell Thornton) to a high of 18 million (Dobyns 1983).[6]

It would also be fair to say that, despite Europeans intentionally giving some Native American populations diseases, there was a far greater number of Native Americans that died due to disease that was not intentionally given to them, simply because they had no immunity.

during the late 1630s, smallpox killed over half of the Wyandot (Huron), who controlled most of the early North American fur trade in what became Canada. They were reduced to fewer than 10,000 people.[10]

There are no real definitive figures of how large the Native American population was, and some experts argue that our high estimates of the Pre-Columbian Native American population are frankly made up.

some have argued that contemporary estimates of a high pre-Columbian indigenous population are rooted in a bias against Western civilization and/or Christianity. Robert Royal writes that "estimates of pre-Columbian population figures have become heavily politicized with some scholars, who are particularly critical of Europe, often favoring wildly higher figures."[14]

Others argue that the total population of Native Americans is higher today than it ever was. (or at least larger than it was in recorded history - including when Columbus first stumbled upon America)

The indigenous population in 1492 was not necessarily at a high point and may actually have been in decline in some areas. Indigenous populations in most areas of the Americas reached a low point by the early 20th century. In most cases, populations have since begun to climb.[15] In the United States, for instance, the numbers may already have recovered to pre-Columbian levels or even exceeded them.[16]

Most of the European immigrants who came to America (British Colonies/America, Canadian Territories, Etc.) assumed the Native Americans had always had a low population. This is because the diseases which we previously discussed had been so devastating to them before records of their population were kept that once-great communities and cities were reduced to small fractal tribes. Those diseases were spread naturally, even if they hadn't existed in the Americas before the arrival of the Europeans. If the Europeans hadn't come to the Americas en mass when they did, another population would have eventually, and rampant disease would have occurred regardless.

Disease killed off a sizable portion of the populations before European observations (and thus written records) were made. After the epidemics had already killed massive numbers of natives, many newer European immigrants assumed that there had always been relatively few indigenous peoples. The scope of the epidemics over the years was tremendous, killing millions of people—possibly in excess of 90% of the population in the hardest hit areas—and creating one of "the greatest human catastrophe in history, far exceeding even the disaster of the Black Death of medieval Europe"

Something that is not typically known is the fact that Europeans also brought diseases which were common in the Americas back to Europe, which had devastating effects there. The exchange of rampant disease was a two-way road.

One of the most devastating diseases was smallpox, but other deadly diseases included typhus, measles, influenza, bubonic plague, cholera, malaria, tuberculosis, mumps, yellow fever, and pertussis (whooping cough), which were chronic in Eurasia. The indigenous Americas also had a number of endemic diseases, such as tuberculosis and an unusually virulent type of syphilis, which soon became rampant when brought back to the Old World.

I'm not saying wars and massacres didn't occur - they did. But they were certainly not as large as the ones committed by some of the more notorious figures in history. (Ex: Hitler/Stalin) One of the more notable massacres was only about 5,000 people. A massive number, yes, but a drop in the ocean compared to quite a few other 20-year-long genocidal campaigns.

While some California tribes were settled on reservations, others were hunted down and massacred by 19th century American settlers. It is estimated that some 4,500 people of the Population of Native California suffered violent deaths between 1849 and 1870.[45][46]

Eugenics and ethnic cleansing are irrefutably terrible - but try to bare in mind that these concepts were being practiced at a time when they couldn't be refuted by DNA evidence.

As for me personally.. I'm Irish-American and my ancestors were imported to America as unwilling slaves. Later, some of them would become civil war POW's who fought for the Union. I certainly will not accept the blame which a portion of my fellow Americans intend to place onto my shoulders. Obviously a great wrong was done to the Native Americans that can never be made up for but it is my personal belief that the best course of action is to let the past remain in the past. The wounds inflicted will heal with time, assuming the damage is reversible. Shaming (include self-shaming) is productive and helpful to no one.

(All quotes come from wiki)

According to blood type 0 which is primary blood type among the indigenous populations and that bloodtype is said to be less fertile, IMHO numbers of population is away too high. I believe that it was in North America less than 2 millions natives at the time more like 1 million. Why i think this way is that my country Finland also has type 0 as most common blood type and our country has exceeded 5 million citizen by now.

Telegraph

Scientists have discovered for the first time that a woman's blood group could influence her chances of getting pregnant. Researchers who tested a group of women seeking fertility treatment found those with the blood type O appeared to have a lower egg count and poorer egg quality than others.

It took us thousands of years to get this small amount of people so i strongly doubt Native Americans were more fertile.

So to the genocide it was a fact but what is amount of victims is a mystery. Also we have to keep in mind that they were not only fighting the white men they have also have fights between tribes.

I understand your point but I don't entirely agree. My ancestors too were political prisoners from Ireland but the others on my mom's side were Acadian french. These folks were treated very poorly throughout their vibrant history. So much so there is an historical event named for their plight- the Acadian Expulsion. Some of them went south to the States and became 'Cajun, which is derived from Acadian.

My point is these folks were Caucasian Europeans and they were treated like dirt. However their treatment was mild compared to how Indigenous folks were treated. And in many cases still are. You say you want to let bygones be bygones? Well in order for that to happen civil rights and equality will have to make dramatic improvements in order for the racist overtones, and judgmental sentiment to be "bygone". Incidentally, this can be the case from both perspectives.

True you personally were not responsible for the genocide, and true, the numbers at that point in history may be lower, but you can't argue that the lifestyle that was forced upon them unwillingly, still is presenting legitimate economic and cultural problems for Indigenous North Americans. I know here in Canada there was a recent story that demonstrates that 3rd world conditions exist for many in northern communities. Much lower than what they are entitled to as a Canadian citizen.

How many deaths there? And throughout all the years since Wounded Knee? At least a couple mill eh?

reply to post by sparrowstail


I appreciate your input, and you're entitled to your opinion about the Irish being treated better by their dominators than the Native Americans.

Originally posted by sparrowstail
How many deaths there? And throughout all the years since Wounded Knee? At least a couple mill eh?

Would it be uncouth of me to ask for a link which can verify those numbers?

reply to post by HairlessApe


You are overlooking one very obvious fact. Once those "Europeans" moved to the America's they where no longer European. They moved to the New World to start new lives. They abandoned Europe and became American.in one way or another.
Can you understand that? The peoples of the 13 Colonies even fought a war (or most of them anyway) because they didn't want to be "European".

If you read through an entire history of US Federal government's relations with Native Americans, what you'll notice over and over is the Feds actively trying to protect the rights of the indigenous peoples, and getting man-handled by their own citizenry for slowing down the "will of the people" when it included genocide.

If you study Red Cloud's War, The war with the Lakota, Apache, etc., what you see is US soldiers stationed to keep a buffer between illegal settlers and the Native Americans.

Much like Israel today: as soon as the government gives an official boundary, extremist baiters cross the boundary and illegally take possession to land they have absolutely no claim to.

It happened in every state from florida to ohio and everything west.

Particularly before the civil war, the US government actively tried to reduce violence. But they voting public often called on them to "punish" Indians that fought against white entrepreneurs.

Take a look at the Fort Laramie Treaty of 1868. The cavalry actively tried to stop whites from building a road straight through Indian Territory. The government actually tore down forts and tried to relocate some settlers. Of course, once gold was discovered in the Black Hills, there was no way a few hundred soldiers could stop wagon trains with thousands of immigrants...

While it's much more fun to blame the nascent US Empire, because we know what it would later morph into, it is true that in the Days of the Old Republic, the US federal government was often on the side of right, protecting indigenous peoples from the vast populace of American mouth-breathers oozing west like a giant amoeba.

Of course, eventually Teddy Roosevelt would found the American Empire by annexing the remnants of the previous Spanish Empire. And then we'd morph to the point where the federal government was the oppressor, the encroacher, and the exterminator of non-americans....

forget about what has past, it's gone and it's no one alive's fault. if you want to research something that can do some good do a search for "the missing sisters" you will find this web site among others.

www.nwac.ca...

read up on how several thousand girls 9-30 have gone missing in the last several years, they sometimes find pieces of them chopped up in the dump. the govt. of canada and or big corps are making them disappear.

also happening in mexico over gem mines.

yesterday is gone but maybe we can all do some good today, that's what it's about, working together as human beings.

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

You are overlooking one very obvious fact. Once those "Europeans" moved to the America's they where no longer European. They moved to the New World to start new lives. They abandoned Europe and became American.in one way or another.
Can you understand that? The peoples of the 13 Colonies even fought a war (or most of them anyway) because they didn't want to be "European".

"Can you understand that?" I'm not sure why the hostility is necessary, I'm only providing information given by the historical account and sharing my thoughts on it. I never said that Americans weren't to blame for atrocities committed against Native Americans, I simply put forth the idea that many people have a slanted view on the story - often in relation to the numbers of deaths and what percentage of them were due to malevolent intent.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

You are overlooking one very obvious fact. Once those "Europeans" moved to the America's they where no longer European. They moved to the New World to start new lives. They abandoned Europe and became American.in one way or another.
Can you understand that? The peoples of the 13 Colonies even fought a war (or most of them anyway) because they didn't want to be "European".

"Can you understand that?" I'm not sure why the hostility is necessary, I'm only providing information given by the historical account and sharing my thoughts on it. I never said that Americans weren't to blame for atrocities committed against Native Americans, I simply put forth the idea that many people have a slanted view on the story - often in relation to the numbers of deaths and what percentage of them were due to malevolent intent.

The point i was trying to make (maybe not in the correct manner) was any children born on American soil even though their parents may have come over from Europe, cannot be classed as "European". They probably never set foot in Europe their entire lives.

So how you know this is really true?

Native indians says 60 million.
But sure, they didn't really have a population counting system.

Just look at the Iraq war.
Some ''research'' came with the number of 1 million deads since the invasion.
Us government says about 100.000 or less.

How to prove who is right? so you come with 'facts' which arent facts really.

Fact is they where spread all over the country, and when the Europians came they said; it's ok you can come here there is enough space here but soon they became the enemy of the invaders and not many indians where left, let alone the freedom where to live or what to do. Even the bisons which they used for everything (from food to housing and clothing) where almost gone.
The number in itself isn't that important really.
They died basicly anyways where they couldn't live their lives anymore as they did for a long time.

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle
forget about what has past, it's gone and it's no one alive's fault. if you want to research something that can do some good do a search for "the missing sisters" you will find this web site among others.

www.nwac.ca...

read up on how several thousand girls 9-30 have gone missing in the last several years, they sometimes find pieces of them chopped up in the dump. the govt. of canada and or big corps are making them disappear.

also happening in mexico over gem mines.

yesterday is gone but maybe we can all do some good today, that's what it's about, working together as human beings.

I whole-heartedly agree. It's a new day today. As I've said again and again - I KNOW that atrocities were committed... I'm not challenging that idea. I am however challenging exaggerations that serve no purpose other than to stir the pot and stigmatize. I require a little guidance though, as I'm not quite sure what can I do today to bring us together tomorrow.

Originally posted by Plugin
So how you know this is really true?

Native indians says 60 million.
But sure, they didn't have a counting system.

Just look at the Iraq war.
Some ''research'' came with the number of 1 million deads since the invasion.
Us government says about 100.000 or less.

How to prove who is right? so you come with 'facts' which arent facts really.

Fact is they where spread all over the country, and when the Europians came they said; it's ok you can come here there is enough space here but soon they became the enemy of the invaders and not many indians where left.
The number in itself isn't that important really.
They died basicly anyways where they couldn't live their lives anymore as they did for a long time.

Just link the numbers.

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

You are overlooking one very obvious fact. Once those "Europeans" moved to the America's they where no longer European. They moved to the New World to start new lives. They abandoned Europe and became American.in one way or another.
Can you understand that? The peoples of the 13 Colonies even fought a war (or most of them anyway) because they didn't want to be "European".

"Can you understand that?" I'm not sure why the hostility is necessary, I'm only providing information given by the historical account and sharing my thoughts on it. I never said that Americans weren't to blame for atrocities committed against Native Americans, I simply put forth the idea that many people have a slanted view on the story - often in relation to the numbers of deaths and what percentage of them were due to malevolent intent.

The point i was trying to make (maybe not in the correct manner) was any children born on American soil even though their parents may have come over from Europe, cannot be classed as "European". They probably never set foot in Europe their entire lives.

Soooo.. You're saying that the Colonial Brits did not also commit injustices to the Native Americans? Or the French? Spanish? Just like the OP said - some folks only blame the US for something that wasn't solely the doing of the US.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by Plugin
So how you know this is really true?

Native indians says 60 million.
But sure, they didn't have a counting system.

Just look at the Iraq war.
Some ''research'' came with the number of 1 million deads since the invasion.
Us government says about 100.000 or less.

How to prove who is right? so you come with 'facts' which arent facts really.

Fact is they where spread all over the country, and when the Europians came they said; it's ok you can come here there is enough space here but soon they became the enemy of the invaders and not many indians where left.
The number in itself isn't that important really.
They died basicly anyways where they couldn't live their lives anymore as they did for a long time.

Just link the numbers.

From the Iraq war?

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

You are overlooking one very obvious fact. Once those "Europeans" moved to the America's they where no longer European. They moved to the New World to start new lives. They abandoned Europe and became American.in one way or another.
Can you understand that? The peoples of the 13 Colonies even fought a war (or most of them anyway) because they didn't want to be "European".

"Can you understand that?" I'm not sure why the hostility is necessary, I'm only providing information given by the historical account and sharing my thoughts on it. I never said that Americans weren't to blame for atrocities committed against Native Americans, I simply put forth the idea that many people have a slanted view on the story - often in relation to the numbers of deaths and what percentage of them were due to malevolent intent.

The point i was trying to make (maybe not in the correct manner) was any children born on American soil even though their parents may have come over from Europe, cannot be classed as "European". They probably never set foot in Europe their entire lives.

Soooo.. You're saying that the Colonial Brits did not also commit injustices to the Native Americans?

Didn't Paul Revere cry "The British Are Coming"?
He didn't class himself as British did he?

Originally posted by Plugin

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by Plugin
So how you know this is really true?

Native indians says 60 million.
But sure, they didn't have a counting system.

Just look at the Iraq war.
Some ''research'' came with the number of 1 million deads since the invasion.
Us government says about 100.000 or less.

How to prove who is right? so you come with 'facts' which arent facts really.

Fact is they where spread all over the country, and when the Europians came they said; it's ok you can come here there is enough space here but soon they became the enemy of the invaders and not many indians where left.
The number in itself isn't that important really.
They died basicly anyways where they couldn't live their lives anymore as they did for a long time.

Just link the numbers.

From the Iraq war?

60 million. Find me a historical source the purports this.

reply to post by HairlessApe


Just prove to me please that the number of 100.000 dead civilians is more true then 1 million in Iraq?

Nobody really knows how many, let alone how many indians.

It's a wet finger in the blowing air!

Does anyone else find it ironic that the one person who was most likely Native American that replied to my post so far more-or-less agreed with my flatly, yet the non-Native American responses disagree?

Originally posted by Plugin
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

Just prove to me please that the number of 100.000 dead civilians is more true then 1 million in Iraq?

Nobody really knows how many, let alone how many indians.

It's a wet finger in the blowing air!

There weren't even 60 million Native Americans living in the Americans according to the historical account. Which I'll take over your random guess.

reply to post by HairlessApe


So how did they know that? they had birth certificates with registers??