Interesting Facts About the Abuse of Native Americans You Haven't Heard.

Originally posted by dollukka
According to blood type 0 which is primary blood type among the indigenous populations and that bloodtype is said to be less fertile, IMHO numbers of population is away too high. I believe that it was in North America less than 2 millions natives at the time more like 1 million. Why i think this way is that my country Finland also has type 0 as most common blood type and our country has exceeded 5 million citizen by now.

Telegraph

Scientists have discovered for the first time that a woman's blood group could influence her chances of getting pregnant. Researchers who tested a group of women seeking fertility treatment found those with the blood type O appeared to have a lower egg count and poorer egg quality than others.

It took us thousands of years to get this small amount of people so i strongly doubt Native Americans were more fertile.

So to the genocide it was a fact but what is amount of victims is a mystery. Also we have to keep in mind that they were not only fighting the white men they have also have fights between tribes.

edit on 5-8-2013 by dollukka because: (no reason given)

I think this is incredibly telling, and I wish some of these folks would address your point.

Originally posted by Plugin
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

So how did they know that? they had birth certificates with registers??

That's why the estimates vary from about 1.5 mil - 20 mil. Because they didn't have records, but real attempts to estimate the numbers were made. By people living in the time, whom had more credentials than someone posting on a forum without being able to cite a source to verify his personal shot-in-the-dark estimate.

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

You are overlooking one very obvious fact. Once those "Europeans" moved to the America's they where no longer European. They moved to the New World to start new lives. They abandoned Europe and became American.in one way or another.
Can you understand that? The peoples of the 13 Colonies even fought a war (or most of them anyway) because they didn't want to be "European".

"Can you understand that?" I'm not sure why the hostility is necessary, I'm only providing information given by the historical account and sharing my thoughts on it. I never said that Americans weren't to blame for atrocities committed against Native Americans, I simply put forth the idea that many people have a slanted view on the story - often in relation to the numbers of deaths and what percentage of them were due to malevolent intent.

The point i was trying to make (maybe not in the correct manner) was any children born on American soil even though their parents may have come over from Europe, cannot be classed as "European". They probably never set foot in Europe their entire lives.

Soooo.. You're saying that the Colonial Brits did not also commit injustices to the Native Americans?

Didn't Paul Revere cry "The British Are Coming"?
He didn't class himself as British did he?

Actually no, he didn't. It's a well documented myth. He didn't want the British to know the American rebels were aware of their presence.

Revere did not shout the phrase later attributed to him ("The British are coming!"): His mission depended on secrecy, the countryside was filled with British army patrols, and most of the Massachusetts colonists (who were predominantly English in ethnic origin[44]) still considered themselves British.[45][46] Revere's warning, according to eyewitness accounts of the ride and Revere's own descriptions, was "The Regulars are coming out."[47]

Not only that, but you seem to think the British Colonies only existed for a few years. Which is incorrect. The British Colonies (from their conception to the signing of the Declaration of Independence) lasted only half of a century less than the current age of the US.

British colonies on the Atlantic coast of North America founded between 1607 (Virginia) and 1733 (Georgia). They began collaborating at the Albany Congress of 1754 to demand their rights and set up a Continental Congress that declared independence in 1776 and formed a new nation, the United States of America.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by Plugin
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

So how did they know that? they had birth certificates with registers??

That's why the estimates vary from about 1.5 mil - 20 mil. Because they didn't have records, but real attempts to estimate the numbers were made. By people living in the time, whom had more credentials than someone posting on a forum without being able to cite a source to verify his personal shot-in-the-dark estimate.

Vary between 1.5 mil en 20 mil.

Wow, big difference. It's guesswork!
Nothing more.
60 million could be more close to the truth t hen 1 million.
No way to prove it.

Originally posted by Plugin

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by Plugin
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

So how did they know that? they had birth certificates with registers??

That's why the estimates vary from about 1.5 mil - 20 mil. Because they didn't have records, but real attempts to estimate the numbers were made. By people living in the time, whom had more credentials than someone posting on a forum without being able to cite a source to verify his personal shot-in-the-dark estimate.

Vary between 1.5 mil en 20 mil.

Wow, big difference. It's guesswork!
Nothing more.
60 million could be more close to the truth t hen 1 million.
No way to prove it.

No, it couldn't. Unless you can at least make an attempt to back that statement with a reference.

reply to post by HairlessApe


So, was George Washington British or American?
2nd

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle
forget about what has past, it's gone and it's no one alive's fault. if you want to research something that can do some good do a search for "the missing sisters" you will find this web site among others.

www.nwac.ca...

read up on how several thousand girls 9-30 have gone missing in the last several years, they sometimes find pieces of them chopped up in the dump. the govt. of canada and or big corps are making them disappear.

also happening in mexico over gem mines.

yesterday is gone but maybe we can all do some good today, that's what it's about, working together as human beings.

I whole-heartedly agree. It's a new day today. As I've said again and again - I KNOW that atrocities were committed... I'm not challenging that idea. I am however challenging exaggerations that serve no purpose other than to stir the pot and stigmatize. I require a little guidance though, as I'm not quite sure what can I do today to bring us together tomorrow.

I think you may have missed his point. He is demonstrating that hateful murderous sentiment and racial targeting still is being carried out against the Native culture. No need to focus on the past when its is still right here in front of us.

Originally posted by HairlessApe
reply to post by sparrowstail

 

I appreciate your input, and you're entitled to your opinion about the Irish being treated better by their dominators than the Native Americans.

Originally posted by sparrowstail
How many deaths there? And throughout all the years since Wounded Knee? At least a couple mill eh?

Would it be uncouth of me to ask for a link which can verify those numbers?

Even more consequential than warfare or mistreatment on indigenous populations was the geographic displacement of native Indian tribes. The increased European population due to immigration and high birth rates of Native European settlers put pressure on native tribes to relocate and alter their traditional ways of life. The introduction of new forms of intensive agriculture by Europeans let them grow enough food in a given area to support many more people than the native hunting and gathering societies could. Displacement of native peoples living traditionally often resulted in increased infant mortality and often higher death rates which steadily lowered their populations for some time. In the United States, for example, the relocations of Native Americans resulting from the policies of Indian removal and the reservation system created a disruption which resulted in fewer live births and a short term population decline. The populations of many Native American peoples were reduced by the common practice of intermarrying with Europeans.[47] Although many Indian cultures that once thrived are extinct today, their descendants exist today in some of the bloodlines of the current inhabitants of the Americas.

Wiki

These were the lines I was thinking along.

Originally posted by sparrowstail

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle
forget about what has past, it's gone and it's no one alive's fault. if you want to research something that can do some good do a search for "the missing sisters" you will find this web site among others.

www.nwac.ca...

read up on how several thousand girls 9-30 have gone missing in the last several years, they sometimes find pieces of them chopped up in the dump. the govt. of canada and or big corps are making them disappear.

also happening in mexico over gem mines.

yesterday is gone but maybe we can all do some good today, that's what it's about, working together as human beings.

I whole-heartedly agree. It's a new day today. As I've said again and again - I KNOW that atrocities were committed... I'm not challenging that idea. I am however challenging exaggerations that serve no purpose other than to stir the pot and stigmatize. I require a little guidance though, as I'm not quite sure what can I do today to bring us together tomorrow.

I think you may have missed his point. He is demonstrating that hateful murderous sentiment and racial targeting still is being carried out against the Native culture. No need to focus on the past when its is still right here in front of us.

exactly, right here right now native women, children and even men are disappearing wherever money is to be made.

they find girls and young womens body parts chopped to pieces in the land fill for gods sake, yeah it's getting worse and the really bad part is, it's going to spread to all Americans and Canadians in short order.

we like to think in main stream society that this could never happen, well it is and it's growing, big corps will stop at nothing to make money, nothing.

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

So, was George Washington British or American?
2nd

Did George Washington live in 1607 when the first British Colony in America was founded?

Originally posted by sparrowstail

Originally posted by HairlessApe
reply to post by sparrowstail

 

I appreciate your input, and you're entitled to your opinion about the Irish being treated better by their dominators than the Native Americans.

Originally posted by sparrowstail
How many deaths there? And throughout all the years since Wounded Knee? At least a couple mill eh?

Would it be uncouth of me to ask for a link which can verify those numbers?

Even more consequential than warfare or mistreatment on indigenous populations was the geographic displacement of native Indian tribes. The increased European population due to immigration and high birth rates of Native European settlers put pressure on native tribes to relocate and alter their traditional ways of life. The introduction of new forms of intensive agriculture by Europeans let them grow enough food in a given area to support many more people than the native hunting and gathering societies could. Displacement of native peoples living traditionally often resulted in increased infant mortality and often higher death rates which steadily lowered their populations for some time. In the United States, for example, the relocations of Native Americans resulting from the policies of Indian removal and the reservation system created a disruption which resulted in fewer live births and a short term population decline. The populations of many Native American peoples were reduced by the common practice of intermarrying with Europeans.[47] Although many Indian cultures that once thrived are extinct today, their descendants exist today in some of the bloodlines of the current inhabitants of the Americas.

Wiki

These were the lines I was thinking along.

Ah, so we're including the unborn when we say "millions?"

I'm still not sure I see anything which indicates numbers like that.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

So, was George Washington British or American?
2nd

Did George Washington live in 1607 when the first British Colony in America was founded?

edit on 5-8-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

Can you de code that post? I just wanted a yes or no answer.

It's true, past doesn't matter that much anymore but don't forget.

Time to look to the future:

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

So, was George Washington British or American?
2nd

Did George Washington live in 1607 when the first British Colony in America was founded?

edit on 5-8-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

Can you de code that post? I just wanted a yes or no answer.

I'm not going to give you a yes or no answer, because what you're asking me is entirely irrelevant. That was the point I was making. Not sure how you missed it.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

So, was George Washington British or American?
2nd

Did George Washington live in 1607 when the first British Colony in America was founded?

edit on 5-8-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

Can you de code that post? I just wanted a yes or no answer. [/quot


I'm not going to give you a yes or no answer, because what you're asking me is entirely irrelevant. That was the point I was making. Not sure how you missed it.

Why are you reluctant to answer the question?
I will ask it again. Was George Washington British or American?

edit on 5-8-2013 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Plugin
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

Just prove to me please that the number of 100.000 dead civilians is more true then 1 million in Iraq?

Nobody really knows how many, let alone how many indians.

It's a wet finger in the blowing air!

In the period between March 2003 to June 2006 654,965 excess deaths occurred in Iraq and that figure continued to rise. This was a study done by the Lancet. One of the oldest scientific journals in the world and before you poop it. It is worth noting it is the only scientific peer reviewed paper on the subject done..

a-s-n.newsvine.com...

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by sparrowstail

Originally posted by HairlessApe
reply to post by sparrowstail

 

I appreciate your input, and you're entitled to your opinion about the Irish being treated better by their dominators than the Native Americans.

Originally posted by sparrowstail
How many deaths there? And throughout all the years since Wounded Knee? At least a couple mill eh?

Would it be uncouth of me to ask for a link which can verify those numbers?

Even more consequential than warfare or mistreatment on indigenous populations was the geographic displacement of native Indian tribes. The increased European population due to immigration and high birth rates of Native European settlers put pressure on native tribes to relocate and alter their traditional ways of life. The introduction of new forms of intensive agriculture by Europeans let them grow enough food in a given area to support many more people than the native hunting and gathering societies could. Displacement of native peoples living traditionally often resulted in increased infant mortality and often higher death rates which steadily lowered their populations for some time. In the United States, for example, the relocations of Native Americans resulting from the policies of Indian removal and the reservation system created a disruption which resulted in fewer live births and a short term population decline. The populations of many Native American peoples were reduced by the common practice of intermarrying with Europeans.[47] Although many Indian cultures that once thrived are extinct today, their descendants exist today in some of the bloodlines of the current inhabitants of the Americas.

Wiki

These were the lines I was thinking along.

Ah, so we're including the unborn when we say "millions?"

I'm still not sure I see anything which indicates numbers like that.

edit on 5-8-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

And I'm not sure you ever will, if you can not draw your own conclusions from the entire historical experience. The point is the Native populations flourished and prospered prior to European contact. Once arrived in their new world, European populations took all the best land, the best resources, the best of everything the new world had to offer.

Exploitation was not limited to just the natural resources, but the peoples too. But I don't expect you to empathize with any of this as its not indicated in the "numbers". There are no numbers!! due to the fact of marginalization since day one. Th numbers have been conveniently swept under the mat for hundreds of years.

I'm Native American and I never believed the 50 million number either.

It would be very difficult to get a near-estimate of the American Native population
prior to the arrival of the Europeans. You would have to cull together the records of the
Spanish explorers, the French, the original settlers etc., and that would be *best guess*
estimates at that--like trying to estimate the number of gumballs in a gumball machine when
you can't see the gumball machine.

I think it is likely that 10 million would be a close estimate on the high side, and three million on the
low side--though that it just a Native's opinion. There is no way to know for sure. It is much easier
to estimate the number of holocaust victims than it is try and estimate the Native American population
or the number killed.

reply to post by rival

It is much easier to estimate the number of holocaust victims than it is try and estimate the the American Native genocide

And yet even the number of holocaust victims has been called into question, some of which is based on the total population of Jews in Europe prior to WW II, which I am not able to track down at the moment.

It is generally agreed that the six million number is too high; Hilberg thinks 5 million, including all those who perished during the war from whatever cause, Reitlinger estimated about 4.2 to 4.6 million.

codoh.com...

The plaque at auschwitz once claimed that 4 million people were killed in the camp, then it was later changed to 1.5 million.

answers.yahoo.com...

If counting people who died in such a brief and recent time frame and in a country the size of Germany is so difficult, how could anyone expect genuine numbers from a span of hundreds of years involving thousands of skirmishes, battles and massacres from coast to coast? And no one even thinks of hangings like the one in Minnesota where 300 Indian men were condemned to hang "for fighting the cavalry". Lincoln reduced the amount actually hung to 38 because he feared a backlash from the general population if so many were hung at one time. www.nickcolemanmn.com...

But I'm fairly sure the "total body count" over the course of years wouldn't include these 38 or many hundreds more just like them condemned to death by kangaroo courts or simply by vigilantes and posses in various places across the country.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

exactly, right here right now native women, children and even men are disappearing wherever money is to be made.

they find girls and young womens body parts chopped to pieces in the land fill for gods sake, yeah it's getting worse and the really bad part is, it's going to spread to all Americans and Canadians in short order.

we like to think in main stream society that this could never happen, well it is and it's growing, big corps will stop at nothing to make money, nothing.

I've been following this ongoing tragedy and there seems to be NO attempt to find who's doing this and that's almost more heinous than the acts themselves because they won't stop until they're stopped.

Canada has a terrible reputation for its treatment of indigenous people right from the beginning, but here's a website that I've found completely captivating. Its from a first nations viewpoint and it jumps around a lot and covers everything north and south of the border so it keeps my head spinning.
www.agt.net...

Here's a little story from this site:

1676
Magnus a female war leader of the Narraganset People is killed by Major Talcot an Englishman in Warwick, Rhode Island. Mittaubscut was a Narraganset village located along the Pawtuxet River in Kent County, Rhode Island. Nanuntenoo a leader of the Narraganset was captured by the English and taken to Stonington, Connecticut, where he was killed by the savage English, his head cut off and sent to the city fathers of Hatfield. The English kill or burn more than 2,000 Narraganset in South Kingstown, Rhode Island. The English capture 400 Narraganset and sell them into slavery.

I hope others will enjoy this wealth of knowledge as much as I have and do.