New Push Tries to Confiscate Firearms From Felons, Mentally Ill

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


That is the exact reason why us gun owners get so pissed when they pass laws that are way too generic and open to interpretation. They need to be specific.

Saying a felon can't own a gun is BS. If it said a felon convicted of a crime using a gun, would be more acceptable.

Saying mentally ill people is BS. If they went into specifics, with proven facts about certain specific illnesses being more dangerous, that would be more acceptable

reply to post by TKDRL


As I understand it, a Felon can get their rights restored judicially after serving sentence, always been a push by liberals just so to restore voting rights for former felons but crickets chirp regarding same process vis a vis gun rights.

Originally posted by TKDRL

Saying a felon can't own a gun is BS. If it said a felon convicted of a crime using a gun, would be more acceptable.

Saying mentally ill people is BS. If they went into specifics, with proven facts about certain specific illnesses being more dangerous, that would be more acceptable

Actually that what I have been trying to say.

The idea of takeing guns from the mentaly ill and felons is not nessarly a bad thing, as long as they have specfic and sensible criteria.

reply to post by truthermantwo


Please don't tell me you have a gun.

I was walking out in the wild areas the other day and I remember feeling a sense of freedom. Wildness is freedom. But then I thought about our civilization and I realized we're not free. Still, I doubt our civilization would exist without controls placed on us. Fact is, wildness is part logic, part chaos. It's the chaos part that's dangerous to civilization. But if you take away too many freedoms, life loses its luster. And when enough luster is gone, people don't want to live anymore.

Oddly enough, I think some people create the illusion of freedom through the use of religion and entertainment. Ever seen someone deep into reading a book? They're frrrreeeeee..... Sort of like how a severely disabled person can fly in their dreams and might not want to wake up.

I remember reading that during the course of our evolution, competition has been a big driver of change. But there's another driver of change that I've read about and it's what happens when new areas open up to a species and they expand into it. This similarly introduces change. So what they think now is that expansion into new areas is as valuable in evolutionary terms as competition.

Ironically, a species being isolated from other species like itself is also a driver of change since the different species eventually follow widely different evolutionary paths. Otherwise, it stagnates. The theory is that long ago there was one continent on Earth. This led to greatly reduced species diversity. The thinking is that if things had remained the same, intelligent life would not have evolved. However, eventually the continent broke up and the species started to evolve differently.

Read about it here:
en.wikipedia.org - Vicariance...

Originally posted by Phoenix
reply to post by TKDRL

 

As I understand it, a Felon can get their rights restored judicially after serving sentence, always been a push by liberals just so to restore voting rights for former felons but crickets chirp regarding same process vis a vis gun rights.

It depends on the state in which you reside in.

reply to post by oldmeatwad


The types of people that are mentioned in this are people who LEGALLY can not own guns anymore because of what they are convicted of or what they have done in the past. Convicted felons legally cannot own firearms, neither can people who are convicted for violent crimes, have been incarcerated at a mental hospital or have a restraining order against them.

Its not a "new" push either, it happens all the time. It makes perfect sense.

By the way I am a gun owner and believer in the 2nd amendment, I am in the military and work in law enforcement.

The problem with the tin foil hat crowd is they think the sensible gun law types don't know guns or the law. They are wrong on both counts.

The government runs a "guns for felons" program, mind you at taxpayer expense.
Guns for felons

Dougie Jindal, the governor of Louisiana, signed a law that makes it impossible to keep known violent felons from owning guns. An NRA initiative pretty much expanded that. Hint: guess what Louisina is number two in?

More gun for felons

Originally posted by liejunkie01
When i was 17 I took 2 bicycles that didnt belong to me. Convicted when i was 18. Did my time and paid back the community that i had wronged....when i was 26 i got busted with a few pot plants....7 to be exact.....did my time and paid back the community to which i wronged.....

Excuse me, but im tired of all the "do gooders" dictating whats right and wrong for everyone......

Did those make you a felon?

I say go to hell with the nazi style rules that this country has turned to because of fear and political correctness.
.....

I'm really not one to say there should be a lifetime ban or label, but it should be much like you credit as in lets say you had a repo, bad credit cards etc that showed a behavior that you could not be trusted, and so your credit score is in the toilet and you are basically forced to using only a cash base system. Well it going to take a long time of proper stewardship to get back that trust, to get your score back up.

In your case I don't know if what you did is considered a felon, but I spent 28 years in the military and never smoked pot because I didn't like the repercussions that my career would be totally ruined by just one act. I live in Washington now and I can smoke if I wanted to without massive repercussions since state laws have changed and I'm not in the military anymore.

Fear and political correctness has killed any chance at true freedom....were all slaves to the system. You people can be as optimistic as you want.....ive been singled out. I know how it feels....its too far gone.

I do believe there is a big problem with that since once you are in the system you are always in the system. You might as well have a brand on your forehead that will make it so you never get head in life without huge effort and luck.

It really comes down to the state you live in. If you are a convicted felon it might be time to move to a state that doesn't have a life ban or need a full pardon to give civil rights back.

Civil Disabilities

At first glance, it may seem that the question of what rights and privileges a federal felon may lose or retain is easily answered. A closer look reveals a patchwork of disqualifications and restorations. The laws governing the same rights and privileges vary widely from state to state, as well as various federal preclusions from some essential rights. Convicted felons may lose essential rights, such as the right to hold a public office or to vote. Eligibility to earn a living and practice a profession may be restricted. And, in almost every state, as well as under federal law, convicted felons will either be restricted in or relinquish their right to carry or possess firearms. These disabilities and the collateral consequences that flow from a federal felony conviction can be explained as burdens that result from a conviction.

The here is the meat of the subject...

The majority of jurisdictions do, however, provide for a means of removing these burdens. Relief frequently comes automatically with the passing of time, or through an executive or judicial act that is often based on demonstrating that the defendant has been rehabilitated. Again, as with the disability itself, there is no general agreement on how the burdens are lifted. The road to relief must be evaluated on a state-by-state basis and in light of the few governing federal laws.

One of the major roadblocks to lifting restrictions on a federal felon is found in states that require a pardon for removal of state law disabilities.

So if a person moves to a state that doesn't require a pardon to lift state law disabilities they can have a normal life once again.

As example:

A few examples of some of the states' procedures for restoration of certain civil rights will illuminate the variations. In Arizona, federal felons lose the right to vote, serve on a jury, hold a public office, and own a firearm (in the case of violent offenders) as a result of their conviction. The first-time offender felon has most of these rights automatically restored upon completion of his or her sentence (except for owning a firearm, which requires a court or administrative proceeding), but recidivists must apply to the court or obtain a pardon. Federal offenders are precluded from receiving state pardons, but can obtain automatic restoration or court relief.

Those ex-felons who find themselves in Vermont will have lost only the right to serve on a jury if they were sentenced to a period of imprisonment, but the right can be restored by pardon. The law of Vermont is still unsettled on the issue of whether federal offenders are eligible for state pardons.

But many states, like New York, have a life ban on many civil rights for all felons. In the end one must realize we are 50 United States and where you live is a BIG deal that most just take for granted, with the idea that all states are basically the same, but they are not.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Yes i am a felon. One of the bicycles was more than a $1,000. Anything over $300 is a felony.

Up to 4 pot plants is a misdameanor(spelling?) 5 and over is a felony.

I took two bikes like an idiot when i was younger. Ok my bad. I paid for them, paid the county, did some county time and did community service.... I grew some plants becausr I was tired of paying outrageous prices and dealing with shady people.....i had to get a lawyer because they told me i could face from 3 to 7 years in the slammer. I got on
Some crazy first offender probation. It is suppised to be off my record. But is it really. Its still listed when i look it up.

A few bad non violent decisions shouldnt stick with you like that. But it doesnt matter because some peopke think they are better than everyone else and think that they know whats best for everyone......its alright. .my voice doesnt count. So i can complain all I want ...its the cold hard truth

Being a felon myself, for drug possession at the age of 19, I can say that I don't like the current laws. I had a shotgun at the time and it was taken, well actually upon conviction I was ordered by the court to surrender said firearm to my nearest sheriff dept or face further prosecution. And now almost 18 years later I am still paying for a felony that resulted from simple drug possession when I was pretty much a child. I can understand taking guns away from people who commit armed or violent crimes, but just any felony and it's gone forever? I guess only a felon would see how crazy it is.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by truthermantwo

 

Please don't tell me you have a gun.

my gun is my words i speak, i otherwise own no weapons, never have, but might if theres a civil or world war.

Originally posted by crazyewok
Erm what wrong with takeing guns from felons?

I mean they are felons not like those guns will be used for good purposes right?

As far as menatly ill? Well depends on whats classed as menatly ? If it just cause you once had depression then no you should still be able to own a gun. If you have voices in you head telling you to kill everyone then yeah no gun.

edit on 27-7-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Obamacare is established to attach labels of "mentally ill" to everyone for caffeine withdrawal, voting for the wrong political party, expressing open signs of pleasure if you eat certain foods. This way your guns can be taken, your home can be taken, your bank accounts seized (it's in the law, read it).

if you see a man with a hand gun, walk the other way

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Yes i am a felon. One of the bicycles was more than a $1,000. Anything over $300 is a felony.

Up to 4 pot plants is a misdameanor(spelling?) 5 and over is a felony.

I took two bikes like an idiot when i was younger. Ok my bad. I paid for them, paid the county, did some county time and did community service.... I grew some plants becausr I was tired of paying outrageous prices and dealing with shady people.....i had to get a lawyer because they told me i could face from 3 to 7 years in the slammer. I got on
Some crazy first offender probation. It is suppised to be off my record. But is it really. Its still listed when i look it up.

A few bad non violent decisions shouldnt stick with you like that. But it doesnt matter because some peopke think they are better than everyone else and think that they know whats best for everyone......its alright. .my voice doesnt count. So i can complain all I want ...its the cold hard truth

edit on 28-7-2013 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)

You need to find the right state to live in.

reply to post by oldmeatwad


In order to stop a bad man with a gun, you need a good man with a gun. What are these liberal newsmen and journalists trying to say - that all mentally ill people are evil? give me a break!

Originally posted by FreeEnergyChick

In order to stop a bad man with a gun, you need a good man with a gun. What are these liberal newsmen and journalists trying to say - that all mentally ill people are evil? give me a break!

This is a very tricky idea in we can all agree there are mentally ill people who should not have a gun, BUT we can all agree that it would be very easy to "label" just about anyone as mentally ill...

This gets even trickier when a person is labeled but has never shown any prior behavior to suggest they are dangerous to themselves or others. It starts to get into the whole "thought police" scenario....

Personally I see this as a greater chance to became abusive than to prevent people from doing bad things. Even when we look at the resent past, we do not find any smoking gun in these people who have done mass killings to suggest they needed restrictions before hand.

reply to post by oldmeatwad


Ya know what.. this is nothing new. It has always been that felons and mentally ill cannot have firearms. I a huge gun rights supporter agree with this.

This does not in any way suggest they are wrong or are next going to take arms from private citizens who can legally own guns.

I believe the Op is reaching for something thats not there. That said, i do believe they do want to take away our gun rights but for other reasons.

Originally posted by oldmeatwad

New Push Tries to Confiscate Firearms From Felons, Mentally Ill

online.wsj.com

Now some officials are accelerating efforts to seize those firearms. In recent months, the sheriff of Cook County, which includes Chicago, launched a gun-confiscation program; California began adding agents assigned to take away firearms; and New York enacted a law that paves the way for such a program.

(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 27-7-2013 by oldmeatwad because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/27/2013 by semperfortis because: Copy the EXACT Headline

Is it a bad thing to take guns away from felons and the mentally ill?

Or am I missing something here?