New Push Tries to Confiscate Firearms From Felons, Mentally Ill

I know if a couple people that have been mistakenly DXed as mentally ill. both had a bad reaction to medications Prescribed them. and put on a 5150 hold and given medications that did nothing.

the doctors that treat the mentally ill at county hospitals for the most part did not graduate at the top of there class and some just barely graduated
PS i was a EMT and had to deal with the morons at county hospitals.

Both had years of problems because of the label mentally ill on there medical records and years of trying to get the records put right.
low B12 levels in older people can look just like Alzheimer's dementia
www.naturalnews.com...
This causes me to question if there is a system to remove the label mentally ill for those that were miss DXed

You wanna know what I think? I think the UN should conduct a survey on why most developed countries frown upon guns, yet americans hold them in such high regard. Why most countries have nationalised healthcare and americans frown upon that.

Basically conduct a survey why americans tend to be immature and spoiled with extreme views about everything. I am an american but have lived in europe for many years and can see the differences. Really I am not trying to be rude about anything. Just frustrated is all!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
You wanna know what I think? I think the UN should conduct a survey on why most developed countries frown upon guns, yet americans hold them in such regard. Why most countries have nationalised healthcare and americans frown upon that.

Basically conduct a survey why americans tend to be immature and spoiled with extreme views about everything. I am an american but have lived in europe for many years and can see the differences. Really I am not trying to be rude about anything. Just frustrated is all!

Paranoia and the mistaken belief that the world revolves around the U.S.

Second line.

reply to post by VaterOrlaag


Damm right about that! Its almost like americans live on another planet.

The typical values of the american conservative disgust me. I used to liberal when living in new jersey, and now having lived in greece for 10 years I have become progressive. I have travelled to many european countries for brief periods because of business deals.

Originally posted by gariac
The California program takes guns away from people not allowed to own guns in the California. Or are you suggesting it is a good idea for known felons,wife beaters, persons with restraining orders to own guns

I'm sure I'll be vilified for this, but Rights cannot (or are not supposed to be) subject to abrogation by any law, the Right to self-defense (which inherently includes the right to own, possess and bear guns) included.

People confuse Rights with Privileges all the time, and it really irks me when they do.

Rights are something you are born with, and contrary to popular myth, there is really only one Right that we are all born with - the Right to Life. All other Rights are incorporated by association, and basically include anything and everything (that does not violate the Rights of others) *necessary* to support your Life. This includes (but is not limited to) the Right to breathe, to engage in consensual commerce with others, to own Property and use it to one's benefit (again as long as said use does not violate the Rights of others) and yes, the Right to self-defense.

Understand - the limitations I am mentioning incidentally above (ie, limiting what people can do to anything that does not violate the Rights of others) is a very large limitation, and includes doing something on your land that might poison the air or water, etc...

Privileges are bestowed by someone else (Parent(s), friend(s), employer, government, etc). The 5th amendment actually silently recognizes a persons Right to not be subjected to torture or other forms of intimidation by government actors in pursuit of criminal or civil prosecutions.

If someone has done something so despicable that you believe that they should lose their Right to Life (which includes their Right to self-defense, which includes their Right to own and wield guns), then just say so, and execute them.

Originally posted by tanstaafl

If someone has done something so despicable that you believe that they should lose their Right to Life (which includes their Right to self-defense, which includes their Right to own and wield guns), then just say so, and execute them.

Its simply the gun culture. People like guns and feel safe with them. i guess they dont trust the police enough and they dislike/hate all forms of government whether town/county/state/federal. Instead of trying to reign in corruption and fix problems, citizens prefer to take the law into their own hands.

Ask mexicans and canadians why they dont have a gun fetish and their response should be interesting.

Originally posted by gariac
The California program takes guns away from people not allowed to own guns in the California. Or are you suggesting it is a good idea for known felons,wife beaters, persons with restraining orders to own guns.

I often think these threads are started by agent provocateurs to make gun owners look like knuckle dragging loons.

Well, I'd just opine that, even though we can agree that violent felons should lose their right to keep and bear arms, there is so many laws and regulations on the books that pretty much anyone could become a felon at some point. Imagine losing a fundamental civil liberty for life due to a regulatory violation.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

Ayn Rand

Read more at www.brainyquote.com...

reply to post by NavyDoc


What about "the hell with the law" and just going to some ghetto and getting what you want? Money buys everything now a days. I agree the laws are too strict in some places but that does not invalidate the need for laws in a civilised society.

I personally do not trust felons that have done more than 10 years in prison once, or felons that have done jail twice for more than 2 years. Its just my opinion.

The federal government is very corrupt in america, state and local government much less. I personally do trust local government.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

What about "the hell with the law" and just going to some ghetto and getting what you want? Money buys everything now a days. I agree the laws are too strict in some places but that does not invalidate the need for laws in a civilised society.

I personally do not trust felons that have done more than 10 years in prison once, or felons that have done jail twice for more than 2 years. Its just my opinion.

The federal government is very corrupt in america, state and local government much less. I personally do trust local government.

I didn't say "to hell with the law" or that law is not needed in a civilized society, but rather that the federal laws in the US have and are becoming a huge morass of regulation and that at some point, anyone of us may be violating some sort of law every day.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


The guns which you disdain so much have bailed the world out of two recent attenpts at dictatorship by the Germans in the two world wars.

You can have a pizza delivered faster than the police will oftentimes show up to a 911 call.


Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

One day a group of sheep, more bold than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. "Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one dog and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!"

One sheep spoke up, saying "It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery." The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them and cried "Begone! We are not food!" and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!

The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out "Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!"

The brave sheep stopped, amazed. "But we are your brethren!" they cried, "We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!"

"Baaaaaaaddd!", cried the flock,"the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock. They scare us!". So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return. Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep's weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, "Baaaaaaddddd! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!".

And so they did. The great chief sheep and his court and council, encouraged by the words of their moneylenders and advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying "It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!". But the flock would not hear, and drowned them out with cries of "Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!".

Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying "Baaaaddd! Bad things!".

That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep's totems and signs, and said, "Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!". And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter. It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, vowing to each other to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, "See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!". But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, "Baaaaaaaadddd! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaaddd!". The other sheep could only hang their heads and sigh. The flock had forgotten that even they possessed teeth; how else could they graze the grasses of the pasture? It was only those who preyed, like the wolves and jackals, who turned their teeth to evil ends. If you pulled their own fangs those beasts would take another's teeth and claws, perhaps even the broad flat teeth of sheep, and turn them to evil purposes.

The bold sheep knew that the fangs and claws they possessed had not changed them. They still grazed like other sheep, and raised their lambs in the spring, and greeted their friend the dog as he walked among them. But they could not quell the terror of the flock, which rose in them like some ancient dark smoky spirit and could not be damped by reason, nor dispelled by the light of day.

So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.

They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just though I would add there are too many felonies that are completely non-violent, such as lying to a pawn shop, cell phone fraud, defeating a retail security device (felony in Florida). What this means is, if you are an impatient person in Florida and cannot wait for an employee to unlock something off a locked peg, and you cut, rip, or tear a 2$ pair of headphones from a secured peg, you could theoretically become a felon.

And some people here just throw around "felons are dangerous" without realizing how many not dangerous crimes are intentionally being turned into felonies every year in every state to fill for profit prisons, or in this case, to deprive people of their rights.

I just thought I would add for the Eurorags, if it were not for America, Europe would be tearing itself apart, like it has been doing since as long as history can record. The period from WW2 to now is the most stable time in Europe, thanks in part to a larger power maintaining its bases there. Now I am all for America leaving Europe and allowing the fools to tear each other apart and begin redesigning their borders once again, but it wont happen because the Synagogue of Satan which controls the international banks are headquartered there.

I suppose now the Eurorags will attempt to diagnose me with a mental illness, but that is why I have the First amendmant to protect whatever I believe in.

I noticed our "world traveling" American obviously speaking from a progressive stand point ,no doubt because the world he lives in is paid for with corps of bankers. I can see where this person might lump all into a mold ,it is a standard minimization tactic after all.
I do hope they learn something new as this is easily discounted along with other insults used in attempts to label and define.
It sure makes them look simple when they gloss over so many truths.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I bet you that there are several hundred dead
Mexicans who wished they had had personal
firearms to protect them from the thugs and
gangsters who got some of the guns from the
Holder/Obama fast and furious gun running operation.

What do you honestly think earth citizen???


Your freedom ultimately rests upon the blood
sweat and tears of courageous non hysterical
men and women who put their life and limb on the line for freedom.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Xcalibur254

 

As I asked before, do you think a person who has been found a threat to themself or others should be allowed to own a gun?

American adults don't need or ask permission.
sorry to hear you think otherwise.

here, we tend to be a self-governing bunch, so, i can't fathom who would tell us we were or were not 'allowed' anyway.

besides, the criminals don't get permission, why in the world should anyone else ?
maybe, when all of the criminals are eradicated, maybe then i'd lay my gun to the side but i don't see that happening anytime soon, do you ?

So if your neighbor was forcibly committed because they were shown in a court of law to be a threat to others you would have no problem with them owning a gun?

treating people who went to jail, did their time and are free now, as second class citizens is stupid. It's like a caste system, I do not find that acceptable.

Hm, that's interesting because Republicans have been spending the last few years trying to kick all ex-felons off of the voting roles.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
You wanna know what I think? I think the UN should conduct a survey on why most developed countries frown upon guns, yet americans hold them in such high regard. Why most countries have nationalised healthcare and americans frown upon that.

Basically conduct a survey why americans tend to be immature and spoiled with extreme views about everything. I am an american but have lived in europe for many years and can see the differences. Really I am not trying to be rude about anything. Just frustrated is all!

edit on 29/7/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

I read alot of stupid crap on ATS any given week but you take the cake. Being pro-gun is immature and spoiled.


When you are using arguments like this you gotta know that you have lost any and all high ground and dignity. I am really starting to think being progressive might be a sickness of the mind.

Originally posted by spirited75
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I bet you that there are several hundred dead
Mexicans who wished they had had personal
firearms to protect them from the thugs and
gangsters who got some of the guns from the
Holder/Obama fast and furious gun running operation.

What do you honestly think earth citizen???


Your freedom ultimately rests upon the blood
sweat and tears of courageous non hysterical
men and women who put their life and limb on the line for freedom.

edit on 29-7-2013 by spirited75 because: (no reason given)

You left George W Bush out of the arms supply with "Wide Receiver", which was the same as Fast and Furious. I'm sure this was an unintentional error and you will never make this mistake again.

Further, do you honestly think the Zetas didn't have any weapons prior to Wide Receiver and F&F? They were military special forces that joined the other side. The bone headed programs of the ATF didn't add that much fuel to the fire.

reply to post by CB328


And you point is what?