Zimmerman / Trayvon: Yeah, I'm sick of it too, but one Video you HAVE to see...

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Nope, not a super tough guy at all. Tougher than a lot of people, sure, but I'm not in the super tough league. As for me being a liar, we could suspect everyone who ever posts anything on the internet of being a liar, but we wouldn't be right all the time.

The incident I mentioned happened. I never said anything about fighting all 8 at once. They may not have all got involved in the scuffle(only 4 were brave enough to risk taking a dig), but if I'd stayed on the ground and curled up, I'm sure they'd all have been involved then.

There were indeed 8 males between the ages of 18-25, and I was a relatively healthy 38 yr old. It was in broad daylight on a local housing estate and was all over in about 20-30 seconds, after they realised I wasn't going to let them have things all their own way.

I wasn't doubting your account of a 4 on 1 encounter, I just couldn't relate to the "adrenaline causes memory loss" aspects of it, as it has never happened to me. I remember exactly how I went down. I was swinging one body into the way of another, when someone grabbed my shoulder bag from behind, pulled me off balance, and I fell onto the grass taking the guy I had hold of with me. Before anyone had chance to start kicking me, I'd pulled free of my shoulder bag, got back to my feet and was attacking the nearest person to me, who backed off quickly after catching one on the cheek...

It's weird how you only have vague memories of what happened, but I can remember nearly every detail of the action in mine. I might not be able to remember things like what they were all wearing, but I remember the faces of the individuals and what part they played, as if it was yesterday.

As for you having faced more dangers in your 27 years than me in my 51, at 27 I'd already been a drug dealer for 2 years, in one of the roughest areas of Manchester, so I seriously doubt it. I reckon I'd faced more danger during my 16 to 21 yr old football hooligan phase than you'll see your entire life, unless you get involved in a riot or two, or join the armed forces. Try getting back to Leeds town centre alone, after you've got split up from your crew on match day, if you want to know what danger is like.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


So it went from 8 guys to 4. I am talking about 4 people stomping me out of nowhere. No reason to jump me, I had my back turned and was on the phone, someone said "hey" I turned and was punched in the face splitting the cell phone (old flip phone) in two and then was stomped by all at once. I had to work against the blows and try to get out of it, later one got a pipe in it when a friend came to my defense.

I don't want to get in a pissing contest, but I assure you even with your experience as a dealer . I know my own experiences and have more than my fair share, more than 3 or 4 peoples fair shares of dangerous situations. Between Detroit thugs and thugs in South Chicago and Cleveland I would say the danger in Manchester pales in comparison.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


So, with all that experience, you're still willing to believe that Trayvon was an experienced street thug, yet was unable to carry out the kind of sucker punch that you was caught with, and still managed to floor his opponent and keep him there... but once in that position he couldn't cause Zimmerman any significant damage whatsoever during a 20-30 second plus beating? How is that possible? Zimmerman's description of how this fight went down is as dodgy as any fight story I've heard. If there had been no witnesses and Trayvon had got away after a brief scuffle, I'm quite sure Zimmerman would have described Trayvon as being built like a linebacker.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


That's the whole point. He did give the same kind of sucker punch. Actually the teen that hit me was probably between 17 and 19 (I was around 21 at the time). Zimmerman was walking back to his truck, Trayvon spoke to him, he turned and the teen was already attacking with a sucker punch. I would say it was very similar to what happened to me. Anyone that's ever experienced something similar is able to understand how it can and does happen.

After Zimmerman was floored Martin was more focused on pinning him and moving him to/ banging his head on the concrete. You aren't sure of anything regarding this case let alone how Zimmerman might have described Martin in a theoretical scenario where Martin actually let him go instead of trying to bash his brains as long as possible.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Zimmerman did not describe being sucker-punched immediately after hearing Trayvon's voice. He describes Travon as being between 8 and 15ft away, depending on who he's telling. That wasn't a sucker punch, it was a sucker's sucker punch. Trayvon wasn't already within punching range when he alerted Zimmerman to his presence, or tried distracting him, as Zimmerman implied. You also weren't trailing a person you believed was a criminal into an unlit area, so you'd have had less reason to be wary, unless you'd been involved in some sort of altercation before you were sucker punched, in which case, it'd be your own fault for dropping your guard.

As for your explanation of Zimmerman's actions on the ground(or lack of them), again, that isn't what he himself describes. He says he was pummelled mercilessly when he was first mounted, and it was only when he started screaming for help that Trayvon's tactics changed and he started smothering him and banging his head against the concrete. You've claimed you can handle yourself in a fist fight... if you was sat on a stunned person's midriff, how many punches do you think you could fire off in 10 seconds? How many of them do you think your victim would be able to block effectively?

ps. Zimmerman shouldn't be thanking god he had a gun, he should be thanking god for not making Trayvon a real violent thug who'd use a knife, instead of his fists.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


That's not true. He descrives him at about 6 to 8 feet away when he turned to the voice, but he was advancing the entire time. Any cop will tell you how fast someone can be on you. He could make 5 feet I a second or less and is in punching distance at 3 feet or so. Common sense gives the story if you let it in.

As for the beating it went on for about 45 seconds, the screaming took up the majority as people noted it, called 911, and it could still be heard 5 to 10 seconds before the shot. I would say the punches were a brief part of the fight and the most of the 45 seconds was covering the mouth and banging the head.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Zimmerman never said he was advancing all the time. He said he was at x distance when he heard the voice and turned around, responded to Trayvon's query, and then as he looked down for his phone, Trayvon said something else and was punching him on the nose as he was stepping backwards. He doesn't explain how Trayvon was able to hit him on the nose while his head was down. I suppose Trayvon could have give him some kind of uppercut, or maybe he waited until Zimmerman raised his head and then popped him. However way it happened, that is not the most effective way to sucker punch someone if you want to spark them out completely. Do you think Trayvon was just toying with Zimmerman and just wanted to give him a fighting chance?

If you believe Zimmerman went down as quick as he says, and you allow 20 seconds for the first 911 call to connect, if Zimmerman had only started getting his head slammed then, that'd still have given Trayvon 20 seconds + of punching Zimmerman's head time. And, the longer the fight goes on, the less of a big softy Zimmerman looks, or the more ineffective an attacker Trayvon looks. Is it really necessary to shoot someone in the chest who has been as useless at causing you bodily harm as Trayvon Martin was?

Zimmerman's tale about him feeling his jacket sliding up during the fight, is not indicative of a man in such mortal peril he has to shoot his attacker after being reminded he has a gun.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
oh you were jumped by several guys and one guy had a pipe and you lived to talk about it? funny zimmerman and trayvon were fighting 1 on 1 and martin had no weapon. we all know what happened next.

edit on 2-8-2013 by conspiracy nut because: (no reason given)

Are you SERIOUSLY DUMB ENOUGH to try to use my OWN real world example? I can tell you I absolutetly feared for my life enough to justfy blasting them all if i'd had a gun and the only reason I'm here is because one of the guuys stopped the other from taking a pipe to my face (had it just been the guy with the pipe I may be dead), I jumped up and ran as fast as I could and got about half the bar outside to run them off (they still had the bar's door guy held). This was in a decently lit area.

That was completely ignorant of you to try. They are the reason I carry now and if i'd had my gun then at least one of them would have been shot.

hahhahahahahha calling me dumb and ignorant? thats right i used your example, you got beat up by four guys they didnt use their weapon and your still alive. trayvon was fighting zimmerman one on one, trayvon didnt have a weapon and zimmerman killed him. zimmerman would have lived to tell the tale just like you did, if anything you would have been justified to use deadly force seeing as how there were four of them one of you, zimmerman, not so much.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Wrong, watch the video where he describes it.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


The story about the jacket is not indicative of anything. It's unlikely it casually crossed his mind, but came in a frantic scramble. Also the damages do not indicate anything about how vicious the assault was because we don't know how much time was spent punching, how much was spend slamming the head, or how much was spent trying to shut him up or even possibly going for a gun.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


It is ignorant to use a situation that I know everything about and you know nothing about. If the guy had used the pipe I wouldn't have gotten away.. one of the guys with him stopped him from doing that. Trayvon WAS using the concrete and he wasn't stopping (despite being told to be the neighbore) so Zimmerman was justified. He felt fear for his life so he was justified.

I agree, if i'd had my gun that night I would have been justified, but even then you take the risk just as Zimmerman did. Getting out your gun in a situation out of your control is very dangerous. He could have had it taken from him and used on him. It is a decision that took guts honestly. Zimmerman was justified, the whole world knows it, the police knew it then, the court knew it after the trial, so why insist on arguing over it?

Until reading this I genuinely didn't realise that this was the story Zimmerman - and you guys - are trying to sell.

A street-smart battle-hardened 17 year old lands a sucker punch, gets a guy on the floor and beats him for 45 seconds and the guy is still conscious? This is impossible. He'd be dead, or on his way there.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


He didn't beat him for a solid 45 seconds. He also tried to bang his head against the concrete and cover his mouth. Last time I checked Martin's body didn't have 4 arms. Also it's not really something worth disputing considering a neighbor SAW it, and evidence supports Martin being on top when Zimmerman shot him.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

He didn't beat him for a solid 45 seconds. He also tried to bang his head against the concrete and cover his mouth. Last time I checked Martin's body didn't have 4 arms. Also it's not really something worth disputing considering a neighbor SAW it, and evidence supports Martin being on top when Zimmerman shot him.

The neighbour didn't see the whole altercation. The story is largely built from Z's testimony.

So the street hardened thug smashed the guys head against concrete and 'ground and pounded' him for 45 seconds? Yeah, that sounds like the kind of thing you get up from Remember, we're talking about a 6 foot gangster who had been in numerous fights and was definitely trying to kill his opponent.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


The reasoning being used is beyond ridiculous. They want Trayvon to be this experienced street thug with murderous intentions, who can't finish off what he starts, while Zimmerman is this soft, overweight and in above his head good guy who still manages to overcome his evil foe's intentions, despite being beaten almost to the point of unconsciousness.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


If you scroll down to page 3 of his written statement here --- www.nytimes.com... --- you'll see that he doesn't mention getting punched once while he was on his back, so how do you really know what to believe when this guy is recounting something? How do you decide which bits are accurate and which bits he's just fitting to the situation as they occur? As he was the only one there from the beginning to the end of the incident, there is nobody who can contradict him conclusively. They might be able to argue against certain things he said, but it was dark back there and he knew nobody had their phone cam on him from start to finish.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


I got up from a pretty serious beating that left me with bruised ribs and stitches. It's not even remotely hard to believe. The neighbor saw Trayvon on top throwing punches, it is backed up by evidence that's all we need. It backs up Zs story more than the fantasy you guys are pushing.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


We are hust going on the evidence. You are going on.. nothing really.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


I dont see what it matters. I wasnt aure he was really punched beyond the sucker punch. He has been consistent in saying once down his head was slammed. Thats enough and thats what justified the shooting. I never really thought he was punched a lot. Given the evidence and witnesses there is no real reason to doubt his story. Maybe if evidence didnt support it.. but it does.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

The neighbor saw Trayvon on top throwing punches, it is backed up by evidence

So, John Good was lying then? Seems you are finally coming around to the truth of that night's events.