Zimmerman / Trayvon: Yeah, I'm sick of it too, but one Video you HAVE to see...

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
You're wrong, AGAIN. That's a mugshot from his 2005 arrest.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
Your same silly "facts", can be found on the internet, minus the distortion. I guess you failed the Cause and Effect test, given to 2nd graders, huh?

Originally posted by WonderBoi
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

You're wrong, AGAIN. That's a mugshot from his 2005 arrest.

No I am absolutely NOT wrong. It's his drivers license photo. They don't let you keep earrings in jail, jumpsuits don't have collars, and you don't wear a jumpsuit in your booking photo.

There you are proven wrong again and also provinng the media led you to incorrect assumptions.

reply to post by WonderBoi


Read the above post. You haven't seen the undistorted facts unless you watched the trial start to finish. The internet is as trustworthy as the MSM. Even people like you can post here, like above where you thought his driver's license photo was a mugshot.

reply to post by Onslaught2996


Looks like you should get your "facts" straight and stop spreading mis-information!
Australian reporter, Neil Sheehan wrote an article about black crime stats in the Sydney Morning Herald, May 2nd, 1995. The U.S. mainstream media hides this stuff. Oh, and he used factual data. Here's a great starter point if you wanna educate yourself about the truth.


www.topix.com...

Originally posted by djr33222
reply to post by theRhenn

 

People need not ever apologize to me but thank you. Most of my posts have a touch of insolence in them so if people reply to me with the same tone I don't mind. What always will matter more than people's opinions on a topic is the personal character of the people, regardless of personal beliefs. I am quite sure if Martin had better character (17 is damn sure old enough to take responsibility) he would still be alive.

If I was in that same situation I would never have taken offence to being followed or being thought suspicious. I am African American, live in New Jersey, and have never once in my life experienced racial prejudice. I don't identify with any black communities, social organizations, or modes of thinking. I never voted for Obama. Most all my friends in college were Asian Indian or Caucasian and I've been in interracial relationships. I have a degree in psychology and my brother is a doctor. We both listened to a lot of rock music growing up. I spent all of my time in the library reading hundreds of books as a kid. Now as a 25 year old I am well-read, been exposed to different cultures, express myself exceptionally well verbally, and I dress very well to make a good impression on people.

If it was me in that situation I would have not even noticed Martin following me. I would not care. If for some reason I did take offense I would have gingerly walked up to him and had a civil conversation man to man and we both would have walked away smiling and very much alive.

Martin was immature and stupid, so was Zimmerman. If Martin couldn't control his anger Zimmerman didn't have the social skills necessary to avoid a confrontation. I guarantee they had a few words before the whole thing kicked off. Those words should have been used to allay suspicious and avoid a heated altercation. They weren't unfortunately.

BTW - I do not even own a hoodie. Not that it matters lol.

edit on 28-7-2013 by djr33222 because: (no reason given)

I couldn't have said that better, myself.

When I was 17, I was very introverted. When I joined the army at 20, and came out, I was a totally different person. I felt invulnerable, and I certainly was clueless about a lot, even though I figured I knew it all. I think most of it was brought on by liquid courage lol. I look back today and see that I could very well have been Martin, just as easy as I could have been Zimmerman. Since then, with the death of close friends and family, I think I turned into someone more wize. Age could have played a role, but I feel that experiances made the bigger difference. It's sad that Martin didn't get that chance to wizen up. To me, death is something that no one should face, because it brings more unneeded pain to the people around us. It's at those points that we could realise just how much worth we hold for those around us, but never finding out ourselves. Zimmerman, sadly, will be just as profiled for the rest of his life, if not by the police, then by people on both sides of the fence.

As for me... I wear a hoodie Though, I wear it because it's cold as hell sometimes, and helps keep the wind off, but I dont know if I wear it for a fashioned statement, other than I dont like big bulky coats. I'm a big heavy metal guy and outside of work, I dress it. While I'm at work, it's collar shirts and a baseball cap. I'm very clean cut, but that rebellious part of me still remains on the inside. I just dont let that monster out. Many people might think, with the job I have, my appearance, the car I drive, I would be a college educated 90k a year white guy. In truth, my college consisted of graphics design and 3d animation. My job is more from sticking with hard ass work from the very bottom of the oilfield barrel, learning the long and hard way, and one day getting a break based on the work I've done, not from the people I know. I've seen those guys move up and fall out way too many times. I know my job because I've been there and maybe that's why I'm still here, and of course by the grace of God. I think a lot of people dont realise that much isn't always handed to the people who do have plenty, though I will say yeah, it goes both ways, but the ones that work hard get there too. At 25, I wish I would have been where you are now. You accomplished a lot where I played around and partied until I was in my late 20s and probably didn't really figure out and hold on to my goals until I was in my early 30s.

Though, I have known what it was like to be racially discriminated against and I'm white. You are very fortunate in not knowing that, but I cant say that mine was anywhere close to what blacks get at the hands of whites. But I know it exists on all sides.

Thanks again! I appreciate the responses.

Originally posted by WonderBoi
reply to post by Another_Nut

 

MLK said

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

Did GZ know the content of Trayvon's character? No, he judged him by the color of his skin.

How do you know?

What tells you this?

What FACT barrel are you using to pull this stuff up. The facts I'm seeing show nothing of the sort.

You do realise he was RAISED with 2 other kids that were black. MY common sense says if he WAS racist, or judging by color, those 2 black people before mentioned would have said something about it by now, dont you think?

I think the only reason I respond to you is... I'm really curious as to where you're getting this stuff. I see a vast majority here seeing otherwise. The irony is... I totally expected just the opposite on ATS. I really, honestly did. But the numbers of people here that believe like you do, extreemly small. So that, to me, is saying something. When the balance is that far off on a forum where people pick things apart all day long... I mean, cmon man.. This is what we do here! How can just about everyone here see it and you dont?

I really would love to know what you're holding on to and why. It's like you want to focus on one thing but not the rest. Much of the "facts" you're using are wrong or half truths.

You steriotype zimmerman by how "he looks like a cop" and in the same breath argue how he profiled Martin the same way. What exactly does a cop look like? I've worn a high and tight for nearly 20 years.... a great deal before I took up being a cop for a few years... yet to you, I would "look like a cop". Being a cop isn't always a bad thing. There are people in this world that actually do their job right and dont always take advantage of people with a power trip. I'm one of those. I used to look down on my partner because he was swole up as a cop and people hated him. Me... I could walk in a bar anytime I wanted to and get hammered with the rest and NEVER had a problem.. Even from people I wrote tickets to.

I think you're just against athority and "down with the man!". I dont even know you, and I certainly dont have to know what you look like or what you wear to get that impression. That's what "my common sense" says to me.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I don't live in the USA and I rarely watch the news on tv here in the UK, so I'm hardly likely to go out of my way to watch your news shows. I come across news stories via forums and if they grab my interest, I look into them more. Sites like Axiomamnesia provided all the recorded phone calls, interviews etc, that a person needed to make intelligent decisions regarding the trustworthiness and reasoning capacity displayed by Zimmerman that night.

Originally posted by djr33222
reply to post by groingrinder

 

I know what would have happened. Martin would have ate his skittles, drank his iced tea and went the hell home. End of story.

edit on 28-7-2013 by djr33222 because: (no reason given)

Hehe You mean, he might have made it home to make his purple dank.

I'll admit. I didn't know anything about this concoction until I read the article showing how these items went together. Now.. The x cop part of me would have looked at him (had a cop come up on T instead of Z) and thought just that... Drug related. He would have asked him tons of questions and picked him up and brought him to the home he was supposed to be headed.

In truth.. Yeah I honestly think that T was probably going home.. doesnt matter what he was going to do with the stuff he bought. He was still innocent until proven otherwise.

Though, I still stand by the Z, as a human, as a us citizen, as a concerned induvidual, as anyone, white, black, purple or pink, having the right to want to know what might be going down in his neighborhood. For all I know, it could have been a very quiet, non activity at night kind of neighborhood where people dressed a certain way. To Z, T might have looked out of the ordinary. So I say he did have the right to look into it at least.

Whether it be by cop or by dispatch (not a cop - just radio operators - though that depends.. dispatures in my dept where cops who also went to the academy but not very active on the street) no one can say that he must stand down and leave him alone. Cops dont have that athority unless they're in an active investigation. They're just people like you and me who have a badge and a gun and a better understand of law (so you would think) than the normal joe. They only have arrest privy but honestly, not much more than a civillian. They have rules to abide and laws govern them exactly the same way they govern others. They are not above the law and cannot create their own laws. They're trained to inforce those laws. Even though they think they have super powers at times and try to push their will on others. It's not the millitary. A cop would have gotten on scene and taken it over and said then.. "Stand Down!". But he couldn't at that point say "You disobeyed a direct order! - Here is a ticket or jail", unless he was actively involved at that point and told Z to get away. Only after that point could he do something. Cops will pretend they have the ability, but they dont. Its just like a cop speeding when you cant. Legally.. They are NOT allowed even durring a high speed chase. We called it unspoken rules... rules that didn't exist but no one would say anything about it because we were cops. Seatbelts too. We had 'reasons' for everything.

But I will say, you're right. Had Z left it alone, there would have probably been one less death that night. There are a lot of maybes. For all we know, T might have gotten into another MMA style fight the next day and killed a guy. ...or he, as I mentioned in anothr post... Might have changed his life to be a different person after any amount of time, sooner or later.

It is what it is though and by pushing more hate and division like the media is doing, is not the answer.

I wish everyone would have just let the court deal with it and stayed out of it. We'd be better people for it.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


What interviews pre trial could have made you come to your decision? If you watched the trial you would know the truth. As it is now you are coming to a crazy conclusion based on zero evidence (or you are coming to a xrazy conclusion in complete spite of the evidence).

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by djr33222
reply to post by seabag

 

The dispatcher is part of the department, they are trained to do a job, they are trained by the POLICE DEPARTMENT who has AUTHORITY to train the gatekeepers, i.e. the dispatcher, quality control for correspondence with officers. When the dispatcher advised Zimmerman not to follow Martin, to stay in his truck and wait for police to arrive, they were following police protocol.

They were following a script of normative behavior designed by the authoritative system of the police.

I just linked the transcript. Zimmerman wasn't ordered not to follow.

Besides, a dispatcher isn't a licensed officer and has no authority over me or you. As a matter of fact, a police officer really can't tell me or you not to walk down the street either.

Stop grasping at straws! The trial is over!

Not always true, Sea. Dispatures in my dept were and often are cops. I know in Louisiana, they go through the same training (most departments) and carry a badge and dress in uniform. It depends on the area. I dont know what this dept did though. Here in the city I'm in, in Texas, a gal pal of mine is a dispature and is in no way related to Leo. It all depends.

Still. It wouldn't matter. Cops cant order you to do anything unless they are actively on location and conducting an investigation or arrest. If they're not there, you're not interfearing. Until they got there, they could do nothing to make Z stop unless Z was breaking a law like say... stalking. Which in this case he wasn't.

The only way a cop can do something is IF you're breaking some law. Everything else is just bullying.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by djr33222
As a matter of fact, when Zimmerman disregarded the advice of the police department (as was conveyed to him by the dispatcher) he was being a vigilante, someone with no training to handle these situations.

Dispatchers are not police officers, they are normal citizens with no authority beyond what you, I, or Zimmerman has. Its a low pay, high turnover rate job. They get minimal training, they do not go to the police academy, nor are they required to have a BS in Criminal Justice like a police officer.

Zimmerman agree to stop following martin, and was walking to find an address to give the dispatcher so they could coordinate the police meeting with him, when martin jumped him.

Once again Mod.. Depends on the dept and where. Dispatures do exactly the same as a cop. Matter of fact, I didn't mention this earlier, but Louisiana State Trooper dispatures are also cops themselves. I know this for a fact. My aunt spent a whole lot of time as one and she went on patrol with troopers now and then to stay active.

Local dept's also do this. This was manditory in my dept when I was a cop in the late 90s. Though, it doesn't apply everywhere and in all states.

The video should be called ''How to Character assassinate someone with Ad Hominem attacks''

reply to post by theRhenn


Speaking of cops... I have always thought very highly of law enforcement. Never been arrested or pulled over for speeding.

One time, while in college, I was actually driving drunk at about 3 in the morning after visiting some friends at another school. I had been drinking Jack Daniels for about 6 hours, then proceeded to drive home in the first car I ever had, my right rear-view mirror was missing, my back left side window was busted, my radio was stolen, the car was basically pure #. So I got lost on my way back and came upon one of those check-points for drunk drivers. Needless to say, I was absolutely drunk and in a highly suspicious car. There were about 4 or 5 officers there when I pulled up. I made regular conversation with one of them sort of smiling because I was 100% sure I was going to jail, I didn't want to be one of those people who tries to play it off and deny what I've been doing just to end up in a cell feeling like an idiot. So I waited for him to ask me if I had been drinking to which I would have replied "Hell yes, me and my friend killed a bottle of Jack. Don't put the handcuffs on too tight please." Then they just let me go. I was like, "Those were some really cool dudes."

I've also been in other situations were I could have been arrested but was just let go.

This is why I can't exactly empathize with other black people who yell racism and profiling however I do understand what others have experienced in terms of unfairness. I didn't even follow the case. Only after the verdict and the massive explosion of media coverage did I start to care. For me it wasn't the media though that got me to be so interested in the topic but when I noticed what people's perceptions about the event were like, for both black and white people.

And this always happens. I still think racism is a powerful demon in American life, one that would require an equally powerful exorcism. These discussion are really bigger than Martin and Zimmerman because when will the next event happen and be tainted by racist propoganda? Next week, next month, tomorrow? Actually, I've noticed people bringing race into every possible topic, anything about the economy, social events, sports, religion, judicial system, entertainment, its always about race. I was just reading an article about the top 15 manliest actors in Hollywood and everyone commenting was arguing about racial crap. We have a terrible problem on our hands.

This is my summary of this thread:

-Trayvon deserved to die because he was going home to make lean
-It's a good thing Trayvon is dead because he would've continued to steal jewelry, smoke weed, and make lean.
-Trayvon should have walked like a normal person

You people will believe anything about Trayvon, and ignore anything about Zimmerman. This video clearly proves it, because this Whittle guy doesn't know s*** about making lean.

reply to post by SPYvsSPY


OK let's break this down so everyone understands. You have 2 young men, 1 on foot meandering through the neighborhood, the other neighborhood watch in a vehicle meandering through the neighborhood. Both notice each other and up goes the radar. After a bit both are on foot and are playing cat and mouse with each other. 1 is armed the other is not. The armed man doesn't expect to be run up on by the unarmed man and taken down, The unarmed man doesn't expect the gun, they fight. BANG one is shot............both were at fault In the heat of the moment you will use anything, rock, stick, fist, gun.

reply to post by garbageface

OK let's break this down so everyone understands. You have 2 young men, 1 on foot walking home, the other neighborhood watch in a vehicle and notices the other man walking home, who happens to be wearing a menacing looking hoodie. Both notice each other and up goes the radar. After a bit, both are on foot, against direct orders from the 911 operator for Zimmerman, and are playing cop vs robber, even though Trayvon is not a willing participant. 1 is armed the other is not. Trayvon notices he's being followed and feels threatened, so he tries to lose the guy, it's not happening, so he attacks his follower in self defense. The armed man doesn't expect to be attacked and to be losing the fight, The unarmed man doesn't expect the gun, they fight. BANG one is shot............one was at fault, the one that instigated the fight by following somebody for no reason. In the heat of the moment you will use anything, rock, stick, fist, gun.

Fixed that for you.. The minute you tell me that Trayvon is at fault for walking home and a guy following him with a gun with CLEAR SUSPICION OF HIM simply because he's there walking home.. You lose me.

I'd attack somebody who was following me walking home as well. You don't know that person's intent.

You had your opportunity to use wordplay to change a post to suit your views. I'll do the same.

You assume that Zimmerman knew what Martin was doing in the neighborhood. Any resident, not just neighborhood watch, would grow curious witnessing an unknown person cutting across and through private property. Any reasonable individual would wonder why Martin was not confining his movements to public sidewalks. Zimmerman, witnessing this questionable behavior, decides to perform a sensible action. After all, there have been a respectable amount of property crimes in the neighborhood. Zimmerman follows Martin to observe him. Zimmerman calls the police to report a trespasser on private property. Police advise Zimmerman. Zimmerman is under no obligation to terminate his visual observation. Martin notices he's being followed. Martin, for whatever reason, decides he feels threatened by a resident walking around the neighborhood. Now Martin makes his life-ending mistake. Martin attacks the resident walking the streets of his neighborhood. Martin gets shot.

Fixed that for you. The moment you tell me Zimmerman is at fault for defending himself from attack you lose me. Martin had no reason or right to trespass through private property to cut walking distance. Any rational minded observer would consider that questionable behavior. Zimmerman had every right to walk the neighborhood and observe Martin. Martin could have easily ended the incident before there was one. He could have remained on public sidewalks and property thereby not bringing attention to himself. He could have ignored Zimmerman. He could have inquired why Zimmerman was observing him. He could have went home. He did not. He chose the rash course of action and lost his life. The only one at fault for his lost life is himself - Trayvon Martin.

Cut through all the BS and hype of this incident. You have one young man who decides to trespass private property to shorten his travel distance. He drew attention to himself that was not unreasonable. You have a resident who decides to observe him while informing police. The police non-emergency line is privately operated and has no legal standing to issue orders. Zimmerman does what he felt best and continued his observation. At some point he lost track of Martin. The next time he and Martin meet --- Zimmerman is being attacked by surprise. Martin gets killed in self-defense. Case closed.

Zimmerman's facial and head injuries don't add up to getting his ass whooped in my opinion. Looks like some self inflicted stuff.

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
This is my summary of this thread:

-Trayvon deserved to die because he was going home to make lean
-It's a good thing Trayvon is dead because he would've continued to steal jewelry, smoke weed, and make lean.
-Trayvon should have walked like a normal person

You people will believe anything about Trayvon, and ignore anything about Zimmerman. This video clearly proves it, because this Whittle guy doesn't know s*** about making lean.

I'd have to disagree. I think the mainstream media has done a spectacular job of demonizing Zimmerman, and I think most of the people on this thread are fairly well acquainted with the accusations leveled against him. He's been accused of being a wife-beater, racist, etc. Whether or not you believe those accusations are accurate is a different matter, and it's a lot different from "ignoring" them.

This thread is about looking at what most people (and especially MSM) have ignored/overlooked about Trayvon. I think anyone with a fair degree of common sense has recognized that the mainstream media has a clear bias in this case. Do most people know that Trayvon had a history of drugs, had been suspended from school more than once, found with jewelry in his locker (that was at the very least HIGHLY suspicious and probably should have been enough to get him suspended from school AGAIN)? I don't think so.

And I definitely think that your claim that most of us think

-Trayvon deserved to die because he was going home to make lean.
-It's a good thing Trayvon is dead because he would've continued to steal jewelry, smoke weed, and make lean.

is absolutely ridiculous, and honestly, I think it's incredibly offensive. You are accusing the OP and some other ATS members on here (myself included) of saying that we think everything is Trayvon's fault and that we're happy that he's dead, unless we believe every claim that MSM has tried to shove down our throats. If you want to dispute the claims that were made in the video, go ahead and do it. DON'T accuse us of being happy that someone died that night.

Originally posted by D_Mason
Zimmerman's facial and head injuries don't add up to getting his ass whooped in my opinion. Looks like some self inflicted stuff.

I don't think it's very likely. First of all, I think that Zimmerman would probably have been in shock from the shooting. After all, police officers and trained soldiers have been known to go into shock after a lethal shooting or a combat situation. Secondly, as I understand it, causing a believable amount of head trauma is harder than what most people would think. Not enough force, and you don't have enough believable injury. Too much force, and you could risk cracking your skull or doing some serious injury to yourself. Not an easy thing to do IMO. Thirdly, if I recall correctly Zimmerman had around two minutes from the time the shot was fired to the time that the police arrived on scene. So he would've had to either

A: overcome his state of shock, realize that he needed to make it look like self defense, and injure himself enough that his story was believable, all in the two minutes before the cops showed up, and without any witnesses seeing.

or B: intentionally injured himself just enough, done it after his 911 call ended but before his confrontation with Trayvon (but also without any potential witnesses seeing it), struggle with Trayvon a little bit (after all, witnesses DID describe some kind of struggle), shoot Trayvon, and then wait for the cops to arrive and then convince the cops that he was surprised (instead of happy) to find out that Trayvon was dead.

Scenario A I think is just too unlikely for me to believe it, and scenario B would seem to imply that Zimmerman had planned on shooting Trayvon all along. But if that was the case, what led to the struggle between Zimmerman and Martin? Wouldn't Zimmerman have had his gun drawn already if he was planning on killing Trayvon all along?

Originally posted by WonderBoi
If some of you are going to talk about a person's PAST image, feast on this one; that i'm sure you'll excuse and say: "Yeah, but"

Truth be told. That's what a "thug" looks like. Typical suspect. However, this is the image they want you to see.

Note to add: I thought TM covered his nose and mouth; as he was slamming GZ's head into the cement? REALLY? Can't tell.

edit on 28-7-2013 by WonderBoi because: (no reason given)

Zimmerman's face doesn't show the characteristics of an ass whooping outside of the busted nose. Which he very well could have busted himself. The scalp injuries definitely seem self inflicted to me. Definitely don't look like the type of abrasions one would get from getting their head smacked onto a flat concrete surface.