Obey the authorities or you will be punished!

reply to post by windword


You need to go back and read the story.

Matthew 27:21
“Which of the two do you want me to release to you?”

They said, “Barabbas!”

22 Pilate said to them, “What then shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?”

They all said to him, “Let Him be crucified!”

23 Then the governor said, “Why, what evil has He done?”

But they cried out all the more, saying, “Let Him be crucified!”

24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, “I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it.”

25 And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.”

26 Then he released Barabbas to them; and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered Him to be crucified.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Yeah, that is pretty silly because I'm not an atheist.

Funny how just because I don't believe the same thing you do, you automatically assume I'm an atheist.

So what ever you believe, does it matter

You just hereto score points

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

The Roman killed Jesus for the crime of treason against the Roman authority of Caesar, claiming, supposedly, to be "King of the Jews."

edit on 23-7-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

Can you point me in the direction of the evidence to your statement
Thanks

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


Don't be ridiculous! The Jews could easily have stoned Jesus for blasphemy. Jesus was tried and convicted for treason. The Roman's didn't crucify people to satisfy their minions. They did it to terrorize other would be treasonists and keep the populations in check.

Jesus was arrested on a charge of treason and was crucified, a common form of execution for condemned criminals. To the Romans, Jesus was a troublemaker who had got his just desserts.
www.pbs.org...

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Don't be ridiculous! The Jews could easily have stoned Jesus for blasphemy. Jesus was tried and convicted for treason. The Roman's didn't crucify people to satisfy their minions. They did it to terrorize other would be treasonists and keep the populations in check.

Jesus was arrested on a charge of treason and was crucified, a common form of execution for condemned criminals. To the Romans, Jesus was a troublemaker who had got his just desserts.
www.pbs.org...

Show me that in scripture though. What historical evidence can you provide that makes it true.

reply to post by borntowatch

In their mock trial, the religious leaders had agreed that Jesus should be put to death. But they did not have authority to put anyone to death under Roman law. So, as soon as morning came, they took Jesus to the the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate [PON chus PIE lat]. They falsely accused Jesus of treason against the Roman Empire for claiming to be the king of the Jews and for urging people not to pay their taxes.
www.christianbiblereference.org...

(Actually the Sanhedrin did have the authority to put Jesus to death by stoning. It was not blasphemy to claim to be a messiah, a man. If Jesus proclaimed himself a messiah god, then it would have been blasphemy.) Therefore the High-Priest handed him over to the Roman authorities (Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor), who found him guilty of treason (i.e., claiming to be the King of the Jews). The title "Son of God" was given to the Kings of the Jews. The Romans viewed Jesus as a pretender to the throne of Judea. Roman prefects demanded that the High-Priests arrest and turn over Jews seen as agitators or subversive persons.
www.easysurf.us...

Please understand the dilemma of these law-breaking priests. If they presented Jesus as a man convicted of blasphemy on the testimony of only two witnesses who did not agree, Pilate would reverse their verdict. If they presented Jesus as one convicted by his own confession, Pilate would set the verdict aside. And, of course, if they reported Jesus was convicted by unanimous verdict, Pilate would enter a verdict of acquittal. So the guilty priests presented Jesus to Pilate on a new charge they trumped up on the spot: treason against Caesar.
www.1215.org...

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

2 Pilate asked Jesus, “Are you the king of the Jews?” Jesus replied, “You have said it.”
3 Then the leading priests kept accusing him of many crimes,
4 and Pilate asked him, “Aren’t you going to answer them? What about all these charges they are bringing against you?”
5 But Jesus said nothing, much to Pilate’s surprise.

Jesus didn't defend himself against the crimes he was accused of, the foremost of them being "Treason" for accepting the title "King of the Jews", which was an exaltation above the authority of Caesar.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Don't be ridiculous! The Jews could easily have stoned Jesus for blasphemy.

If you had actually read the Bible, you'd have seen that Jesus was a popular figure among the Jews around and in Jerusalem, so the Jewish authorities could not have had him stoned without putting their own necks on the line. So they trumped up charges against Rome, let the Romans kill him and two birds with one stone -- the Pharisees were safe, and people who liked Jesus would be angered even further at the Roman rulers.

reply to post by adjensen


So popular was Jesus among Jews, in fact, that they ammassed a crowd that nearly rioted to have him killed over Barbaras!

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

The Roman killed Jesus for the crime of treason against the Roman authority of Caesar, claiming, supposedly, to be "King of the Jews."

edit on 23-7-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

Can you point me in the direction of the evidence to your statement
Thanks

It's in all of the gospels.

John 19
So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.

19 Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: jesus of nazareth, the king of the jews. 20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek. 21 The chief priests of the Jews protested to Pilate, “Do not write ‘The King of the Jews,’ but that this man claimed to be king of the Jews.”

22 Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”

23 When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom.

Roman soldiers crucified him and Pilate, who worked for Rome, fastened "King of the Jews" onto the cross.

This is pretty common knowledge.

reply to post by adjensen


So why did the Jews ask for him to be crucified and killed? If he was so loved by the Jews, they wouldn't have demanded him be crucified.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


Again, the evidence is in the gospels.

John 19
12 Then Pilate tried to release him, but the Jewish leaders shouted, “If you release this man, you are no ‘friend of Caesar.’ Anyone who declares himself a king is a rebel against Caesar.”

13 When they said this, Pilate brought Jesus out to them again. Then Pilate sat down on the judgment seat on the platform that is called the Stone Pavement (in Hebrew, Gabbatha). 14 It was now about noon on the day of preparation for the Passover. And Pilate said to the people, “Look, here is your king!”

15 “Away with him,” they yelled. “Away with him! Crucify him!”

“What? Crucify your king?” Pilate asked.

“We have no king but Caesar,” the leading priests shouted back.

16 Then Pilate turned Jesus over to them to be crucified.

So yes, he was crucified on the basis of treason against Caesar.

To steer the thread back on topic.

Hebrews 13
17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Acts 5
29 But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

God is sending us mixed signals here. Do we obey the men in authority, or do we only obey god?

I'm confused.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

So popular was Jesus among Jews, in fact, that they ammassed a crowd that nearly rioted to have him killed over Barbaras!

Like I said, try reading the Bible, particularly the events of Holy Week, which begins with the Triumphal Entry on Palm Sunday.

reply to post by adjensen


Jews are the ones who plotted to capture Jesus and they are the ones who demanded he be crucified. Pilate even gave them permission to crucify him themselves, but they refused and demanded Roman soldiers to do it for them.

Why would they want a man, who you say they loved, crucified and killed? Why did they insist he was a trouble maker who deserved to die?

Read the bible and you will see that the Jews didn't love Jesus, which is why they denied him as Messiah and still do.

reply to post by adjensen


Did the Same People Shout “Hosanna” and “Crucify?”

I am not saying that all of the exact same people were shouting “Hosanna” one day and “Crucify” a few days later. But the point is the switch in public opinion. At the Triumphal Entry, Jerusalem rejoiced. But then Jesus failed their expectations. He had come to defeat sin and death, not Rome.

His kingdom was in hearts, not on a throne (at least not yet). They began to reject Jesus as the campaign of lies by the religious leaders had its effect. Finally, by the time Jesus stood before Pilate, there had been a dramatic shift in public opinion. - See more at: sbcvoices.com...

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

Did the Same People Shout “Hosanna” and “Crucify?”

I am not saying that all of the exact same people were shouting “Hosanna” one day and “Crucify” a few days later. But the point is the switch in public opinion. At the Triumphal Entry, Jerusalem rejoiced. But then Jesus failed their expectations. He had come to defeat sin and death, not Rome.

His kingdom was in hearts, not on a throne (at least not yet). They began to reject Jesus as the campaign of lies by the religious leaders had its effect. Finally, by the time Jesus stood before Pilate, there had been a dramatic shift in public opinion. - See more at: sbcvoices.com...

I underlined the important bit for you. The crowd at Pilate's palace was there at the behest of the Pharisees -- the fact that Jesus was arrested at night in a desolate place, when he could have been arrested all week long when he was at the Temple is a clear indication that there were still many who supported him.

Instead of scouring websites for things that you think support your opinion, take twenty minutes and read the Bible to see what happened during Holy Week.

reply to post by windword


What I find weird is that the Jews were waiting for someone to come and usurp Rome, yet when Pilate asked what the charges against Jesus were, they said that Caesar was their only king.

Why would they stay loyal to Caesar when they were looking forward to Rome's demise at the hands of their Messiah? I don't get it. That whole timeline of events is weird in my opinion.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Our world, our bodies, our souls. We should have a voice in this...whatever this is.

It's not just a right, it is a duty, and it even says so in Genesis.
We are supposed to be in charge but for it to work, we all need a minimum of personal righteousness.

reply to post by adjensen


You keep implying that I haven't read the Bible, which is an incorrect assumption that you like to use to put me, and others down. In reality though, you reject my personal, all but heathen, opinion of the Bible passages that I cite all the time. So, I've learned that when dealing with you, I need to support my opinion with that of others'.

The essay that I quoted was from a Christian Baptist blog, that supports the opinion that the people themselves turned against Jesus.

It's your opinion that only the religious leaders opposed Jesus, but that's not the opinion of everyone who reads the story.

But the end of Matthew 23 demonstrates that this is a single story, not a collection of stories. It started with the crowds saying, “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” But now, Jesus claims that Jerusalem has rejected him.

Mt 23:37-39 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! See, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’ ”

Jesus doesn't blame the religious leaders only for his rejection, he blames the very people who were calling out "Hosanna" and calling him their king, as the very people who have rejected him.