65% of USA residents are ILLEGAL ALIENS...are you included?

Hmmmm... No, our forefathers came and took this land from the native peoples. They were settlers, not immigrants.

Immigrants come to established country's and live, settlers build towns, cities, roads, and country's.

We came, we won, get over it.

Peace.

reply to post by DeepVisions


I guess 34% got permission from the natives before we slaughtered them.

reply to post by Thorneblood


So when people say you stole this land and slaughtered warriors, women and children. Your OK with that?

Or will you say that was not me? If it wasn't you..then how can you then also claim YOU won.

You did nothing but live off the spoils of slaughter and destruction of a once great land.

Originally posted by Kody27

Originally posted by butcherguy

Better start packing White people,

Racist much?

edit on 12-7-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

He's white, genius.

Do you think that makes a difference, him being white?

His entire post is based on race. Do you get that?
Do understand what racism is?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by soulpowertothendegree

 

For the record I am white and illegal.

Fill out any applications lately ? For work or government ? One of newest questions to be added lately is

" Are you hispanic or latino ? " If niether, please check the box that best describes what race you are ?

edit on 12-7-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Can you imagine how it feels to look for the option that says more than one? Or, having a name that doesnt match in peoples minds your appearance?

Originally posted by soulpowertothendegree
This land was stolen from the indigenous tribes of Indians from European settlers;

Why do you ignore the people the " indigenous tribes of Indians" stole the land from?

reply to post by Onslaught2996


Yes. I am just fine with it, after all WE won.
And you are right, i am living off the spoils of a once great land just like most of the powerful cultures throughout history. Please stop pretending that we invented war, genocide and general human atrocities just to claim America. I am pretty sure it was old hat by then.

reply to post by hellobruce


Who are these mythological people?

I would like some proof.

reply to post by Thorneblood


So if I said the extremists did have a sort of victory on Sept 11..and then say, maybe Americans should just get over it. Are you OK with that.

Like I said..You did nothing.

Why do you insist on saying "we". I doubt sitting on your butt all day helped to conquer anyone. Cowards should not be praised but should be known for what they were.

I think many American's have gotten over it. So the answer is yes.

I say WE in this context because so many people like to point the finger at modern americans for what our ancestors did. I am just owning up to the fact that yes, there is a distinct possibility that somewhere in my family tree one of my ancestors killed someone to conquer this country.

reply to post by soulpowertothendegree


Ah. The we are all illegal argument. I should call it a fallacy. The Concepts of Immigration and legal alien vs. illegal alien did not exist during colonial times. What happened to the native Americans was the way of the world at the time. There is nothing anyone alive today can do to change that. If you want to degrade yourself for past actions I can't stop you. You have no right to include me in your personal delusion. I have nothing to feel guilty for.

For the record I am white and native American. I was born here.

black people were forced to be here (they are excluded)

One part of my family was Scottish jacobite and were shipped out to America and Australia after fighting for the rightful return James VII of Scotland and II of England, and later his descendants of the House of Stuart, to the throne after he was deposed by Parliament during the Glorious Revolution. so they were forced to be here (Clarks of the clan Cameron)

Another was a Hessian soldier that had been forced to fight for the British and switched sides

Many of the men were press-ganged into Hessian service. Deserters were summarily executed or beaten by an entire company

en.wikipedia.org...
Many of these hessian that switched sides fought under Major-General von Steuben on the american side.
europeanhistory.about.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by soulpowertothendegree


More like a hostile takeover. Seems like what humans routinely do to each other's culture.
Some American Indian tribes were guilty of same within the continent before Europeans (or descendants of those who conquered Europe) arrived in "The New World." Or so the story goes. Hard to say really, since history is written by 'the winners.'

Now, you got me thinking... if every human relocated to the place of their ancestors (most dominant, genetically if you want to get technical. And how would we even have the means to figure that out for 7 billion people, lol)...

Anyway, hypothetically, if it could be done... what would the population concentrations per nation look like?

So thanks, OP for expanding my thoughts today.

(And I am truly sorry for any misery that my existence within the US has caused any native American. I mean that.) But I am a 'johnny-come-lately' and did not (so far as I know) choose where/when to be born. Unless I did. And don't remember. Well, if I DID, then I am doubly sorry for the pain it may cause... anyone.

There's a bit of faulty logic here.

Blacks were forced to be here? Yes.

Whites were also forced to be here. You do not choose where you are born, if a white person in born in the US, they are being forced into being here just as much as someone who is kidnapped and brought here by force.

We could leave once we grow up, but so can the blacks. They were even given aid in returning to Africa, and the ones that went back became just like their previous slave owners. Americanized blacks that returned to Africa and settled in Liberia were a TINY TINY percentage of the population, were NOT native to the area (not all Africans are the same, if you didn't know) and they enslaved and took advantage of the local population in the same way whites did in America. Oh wait, I thought only whitey was a boogeyman.

I would gladly return to Germany if A. They would take me and B. the US government aided in my return to the fatherland. I have a feeling that Germany will be around much longer than the USA will, anyway.

The law that calls undocumented immigrants illegal is just that, a LAW. Laws of a COUNTRY, not laws of nature or god. The definition of illegal immigrants can NOT be applied to white (or any other race) settlers in America. Why? Because America was not a country, not a nation, it did not have laws. It was an open land inhabited by tribal peoples. They didn't walk up to white settlers and say "according to section C of our tribe's immigration laws (which contradict other tribes laws) you are illegally immigrating to this land.

Who had claim to the US as a whole? Does one native tribe get to decide the laws for the whole continent? So what laws were violated?

Native American's didn't spring to life in America. They came here like everyone else. What gives them the right to claim all this land for themselves? Nothing. Just like nothing gives us a right to this land, other than our ability to defend it from others who want to take it.

Every single person on this planet benefits from wars, theft, and murder of the past. Every single person lives on land that was stolen thrice over. Every single person can trace their lineage to a victimized group.

All you are doing is adding further division. Immigration is not about racism, it's about LAW. You are born here, and you contribute, or if you come here, you follow the laws of the land.

Do you think we walk into Mexico and demand rights, freedoms, and a green card from the Mexican Government? They would laugh if your face. Mexican's aren't natives either, they either migrated to the area long ago or are descended from those peoples mixed with various europeans.

The bottom line is, and I hate to quote from a movie (Kingdom of Heaven) but when he says "All have claim, None have claim" about jeruselem it's very fitting on a larger scale. There is no universal law (unless you are religious) that dictates WHO is right. WE decide who is right and who is wrong. You don't own any land, nobody does, not native americans, not africans, not europeans. We occupy the land and defend it to the best of our ability. THAT Is survival, that is civilization, that is the world.

Playing the historical blame game makes you look like a little kid saying "HE TOUCHED ME!!!" "WELL HE TOUCHED ME FIRST!" "NUH-UH I didn't touch you I was only close to you" "YOU SO DID!" "NUH UH" "PROVE IT"

The only right you have to a land is a right to attempt to keep it for yourself. You may not succeed, but the next guy plays by the same rules, he doesn't own it, he occupies it, and someone will likely steal it from him too.

Originally posted by Nephalim

Can you imagine how it feels to look for the option that says more than one? Or, having a name that doesnt match in peoples minds your appearance?

I was gonna go with the biggest lie I could possibly use. Make my own box for BOTH hispanic and latino.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by soulpowertothendegree

 

Illegal immigrants are determined by the Constitution. According to the Constitution, all humans born on soil owned by the American government after the instatement of the Constitution are legal citizens of the U.S.

Your argument is poorly made...unless, of course, you can provide government-approved materials supporting your statement.

edit on 12-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Illegal immigrants are not determined by the Constitution. They are determined by whatever the current law is. For most of our history if you could get here you were a citizen. On occasion laws would be made to ban the Chinses but illegal immigration and send people back for not coming in the right way is modern idea.

The fix to illegal immigration is pretty obvious....

Make them legal citizens. The only reason illegal immigrants are taking jobs is because it's advantageous to employers to do so. An hourly wage is NOT the main cost of an employee. The cost of an employee is HUGE, and their wages are a small part of it. Hiring illegals you don''t have that cost, AND you pay a lower hourly wage.

If they were legal citizens, companies would stop hiring them. They would be just as expensive as legal Americans, why would you hire someone with no relevant experience who can't speaks English, when you could hire someone who does?

This would help with the language issues as well. People think immigrants should speak english. I agree. But you can't force them. You need to make it advantageous for them to speak english. If they are legal citizens, they are on equal footing with other americans. Then mexican immigrants might finally feel the need to learn english and assimilate into our culture a bit more. If they don't, they won't be making any money here, and they will leave (just like many are already doing due to the economic issues in the us)

Fixing the symptoms does nothing, go to the sources. You will NOT stop them from coming here. You will NOT stop companies from hiring illegals. Those are simple realities you must accept. Then work on the problem, them being illegal gives them an edge in the workforce, take that edge a way, and several other problems solve themselves.

Darn, now I need to go out and get a green card I suppose. I Got my players club card from the Native Americans Casino, that should work.

Birthright citizenship counts for everything, I suppose, at least legally for the present time. But who grants citizenship but the government in power. My best stab at sorting it out, morally(??), is that as a citizen of this universe you are "Here" and that is all the right any creature has for existence and all that that entails. You, them, myself, we are all equal in that, none any more equal than any other.

I was born in the US but there are legal considerations at present so I am a bit uncertain of my status by the OP' s theme -

My mother was the last generation of our family that could claim Native American rights by virtue of her one-eighth blood. At one-sixteenth blood myself (my great-great grandfather was full-blooded) my generation can make no claim for NatAm rights or benefits. Am I legal in the US? No matter, really, Mexico has granted me permanent residency in their country.