Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain! Alleged Super-Skeptic Tells All!

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Gleaning what info I can from Jim's posts, I wonder if he considers satellite reentries to be "Government activities."
That seems to be a pet project of his. I can't say I disagree with him on that one either.
It may very well be the cause of the Yukon mass sighting, for starters.

But again, this hardly means ALL cases are explained thusly.

Originally posted by torsion
Here's some vintage Oberg. Horizon - Case of the UFOs (1982)

Cool video!! Hadn't realized it was on youtube.

That was my "STS-1 beard". By early 1980, I was tired of delays in launching the first shuttle [I was on the Mission Control Center 'Ascent' team]. About April, I just decided to stop shaving until we finally launched. We did, on April 12, 1981, and by then i had a nice beard -- which I shaved off the day after we landed.

Some still images:

Just starting to grow [me with James Doohan, 'Scotty']
www.jamesoberg.com...


Full glory
www.jamesoberg.com...

Promoting 'Red Star in Orbit', early 1981, on Dick Cavett show, with Orson Welles
www.jamesoberg.com...

STS-1 launch day, Mission Control, Houston
www.jamesoberg.com...

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt


I don't think this thread is meant to hold Jim's feet to the fire for evidence.
The claim is that the evidence would come if these officials were granted immunity.

The truth is that it is most likely a combination of things that cause all these events.
I mean, all one needs do is look at any major event that occurred before man invented the airplane to know that the Government isn't behind all of it. I am sure even Oberg would agree, albeit reluctantly.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

I don't think this thread is meant to hold Jim's feet to the fire for evidence.
The claim is that the evidence would come if these officials were granted immunity.

The truth is that it is most likely a combination of things that cause all these events.
I mean, all one needs do is look at any major event that occurred before man invented the airplane to know that the Government isn't behind all of it. I am sure even Oberg would agree, albeit reluctantly.

I agree enthusiastically. With all this manure, there's GOT to be a pony in here somewhere!

Seriously, the UFO community has failed to adequately filter 'noise' from the cacaphonous torrent of stories, so has been unable to isolate and analyze any true signals possibly buried amongst the static. I think I've proven that with the 'space-caused IFO" cases. That is not an attempt to explain ALL unsolved cases -- just a demonstratation that the UFO advocates have failed to adequately vet their data bases. So try harder -- I do believe it's worth it.

reply to post by JimOberg
Off topic here, but I absolutely love the Ascent Team tee shirt!

Originally posted by JimOberg
Seriously, the UFO community has failed to adequately filter 'noise' from the cacaphonous torrent of stories,

I certainly wouldn't argue against that statement. But that failure isn't a good reason for simply accepting, without any evidence, any claim (whether by you or anyone else) that government activities (or aliens) explain various unspecified "well-known 'UFO cases' ".

It seems to me that confirmation bias can affect some people that subscribe to theories other than the ETH as much as it can affect ETH advocates - they can agree with assertions that fit their views, even if evidence is not presented to support those assertions.

reply to post by The GUT


And I will say, the idea that all UFO cases are used to hide actual real government coverups is bollocks and misinformation.

Ask yourself - what would be so very important as to create couple thousands of cases for 70 years and counting? Scientists working for the military have found a way to cross the stars? They can manage a person's mind as if dealing with a computer?- to insert memories, dreams, false hallucinations of Grey beings, delete, erase, copy, paste?

Or simply for the newest super-duper bomber jet that has a new class of rockets or bombs? Logic fails here, as there is no such scientific discovery or technology, man made, to be so protected, UNLESS it is something that can change the whole world economic, religious, political, social system and considering the accounts of people - I do not think they are all having just their mind manipulated.

Only something that would cause the world to change forever is capable of being kept secret, there is neverending sources of presence of other intelligent beings, people like Mr Oberg got to prove that all such cases are fabrication

The more cases I read about, the more things for me are inclining the direction of such foreign presence than simply hiding military secrets...

However I could agree that the gov may not know what they are dealing with but for 70 years, I think someone DOES know...

I know that there are lots of fabricated stories but why should people try harder? Why is there an agenda to discredit and ridicule including with Alien related movies - why create a lie, then make it sound stupid and discredit the very lie you want to force on all people to accept as true? is this a lie at all? Makes more sense to discredit something true by ridiculing it, than the opposite... Otherwise it's so anti-logical.

reply to post by JimOberg

So try harder -- I do believe it's worth it

Please elaborate , in what way do you believe it will be worth it ?

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

I don't think this thread is meant to hold Jim's feet to the fire for evidence.
The claim is that the evidence would come if these officials were granted immunity.

The truth is that it is most likely a combination of things that cause all these events.
I mean, all one needs do is look at any major event that occurred before man invented the airplane to know that the Government isn't behind all of it. I am sure even Oberg would agree, albeit reluctantly.

I tend to agree, however the OP was basically implying that Jim was a sceptic (ie in a positive way) yet making a wild claim without evidence puts you in the Conspiracy Theorist basket not in the Sceptic Basket.

Having said that I think I agree with many of Jim's views.

reply to post by ImpactoR

why create a lie, then make it sound stupid and discredit the very lie you want to force on all people to accept as true? is this a lie at all? Anti-logic.

I can see the logic IF you start with a phenomena that has some measure of validity (UFOs), and you want to exploit it for personal gain, but not appear to stand behind it entirely (because again, the phenomena has validity).
That way, anything super secret you are working on that seems to defy logic may be lumped in with the phenomena by people who are generally too reluctant to speak about it openly because you are ALSO actively discrediting it.

Anti-logic? Nah, pretty crafty really.

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt


In my view, skepticism is essential in the field of UFOlogy.


But again, Jim didn't start this thread and in fact, it is just an open letter to CSETI asking them to push for disclosure of a certain subset of UFO cases.
That hardly requires Jim to provide evidence, IMO.
Especially considering it would likely compromise sources that he says, in the letter, are requesting immunity.
In my view, it is actually irresponsible for us to even ask for evidence here.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

I don't think this thread is meant to hold Jim's feet to the fire for evidence.
The claim is that the evidence would come if these officials were granted immunity.

Why is it then that many military men are willing to testify under oath that their is a real UFO phenomenon, in the sense that craft under intelligent control have been observed and tracked on radar performing manoeuvres that no man made aircraft can perform?
They have had the courage to do this even though they know they will be ridiculed and laughed at, and they also risk being put into prison for breaking secrecy agreements.
The other alternative is they are a bunch of liers which now opens up another conspiracy theory. So there is your conundrum.

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt


The third option being a combination of both.

ETA: to put it another way, perhaps some of these would be whistle blowers are still in their careers and wish to STAY employed.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

In my view, it is actually irresponsible for us to even ask for evidence here.

I agreed with everything you had to say except this. Are you serious?
This is pure hypocrisy. If Jim was claiming he knew of men that had witnessed the Roswell incident and it was legit. Everyone would be saying "put up or shut up". They would also say Jim was gullible, and had been taken for a ride.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

The third option being a combination of both.

The third option is irrelevant because it's either a real phenomenon or not. If it is a bit of both then it is obviously a real phenomenon. It only takes one real case for it to be real. All the liers are irrelevant if it is real.

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt


Perhaps you should ask GUT why he didn't present Jim's evidence...

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt


I don't think you will find a single person here who says UFOs don't exist.
Happy hunting.

Alleged Super-Skeptic Tells All!

I'd like to take this moment in time to point out that the word "skeptic" has been abused and improperly used in these contexts. Jim Oberg, and others that receive the "skeptic" moniker from conspiracy-minded people are not skeptics, they are cynics.

Cynic:
a person who believes that people are motivated purely by self-interest rather than acting for honorable or unselfish reasons.

Conspiracy-minded people typically exhibit the pure definition of a skeptic.

Skeptic:
a person inclined to question or doubt all accepted opinions.

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

The third option is irrelevant because it's either a real phenomenon or not.

There's no doubt that UFOs are a real phenomenon but there may be many causes of the phenomenon that have nothing to do with Extraterrestrial visitors , the possibility is there but I'm afraid its way down the list .

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

Perhaps you should ask GUT why he didn't present Jim's evidence...

GUT could you provide us with Jims evidence.